The Commonwealth of Socialist States (MT Alliance Thread)

[Ardoki]

Define innocent.

The one hundred and fifty million people who were in the wrong place in the wrong time when the people dressed in red came to relocate them to their new, community-owned farm, given no food, no water, and all of their possessions confiscated in the name of the state. Those innocent people.

If they were good citizens, they should be cared for and made happy.

[Transoxthraxia]

The one hundred and fifty million people who were in the wrong place in the wrong time when the people dressed in red came to relocate them to their new, community-owned farm, given no food, no water, and all of their possessions confiscated in the name of the state. Those innocent people.

If they were good citizens, they should be cared for and made happy.

And yet, under the system that you praise, they were instead murdered.

[Ardoki]

If they were good citizens, they should be cared for and made happy.

And yet, under the system that you praise, they were instead murdered.

I'm economically centre-left.

I don't want to introduce those collectivist policies, which unfortunately led to many deaths (which were not intentional, they were accidents).

[Transoxthraxia]

And yet, under the system that you praise, they were instead murdered.

I'm economically centre-left.

I don't want to introduce those collectivist policies, which unfortunately led to many deaths (which were not intentional, they were accidents).

Yes, I understand that, but that's not what you were arguing.

[Inyourfaceistan]

And yet, under the system that you praise, they were instead murdered.

I'm economically centre-left.

I don't want to introduce those collectivist policies, which unfortunately led to many deaths (which were not intentional, they were accidents).

What about the Gulags, show trials and internal tortures and assassinations?

[Ardoki]

I'm economically centre-left.

I don't want to introduce those collectivist policies, which unfortunately led to many deaths (which were not intentional, they were accidents).

Yes, I understand that, but that's not what you were arguing.

I don't praise Stalinism and its derivatives. There!

[Ardoki]

I'm economically centre-left.

I don't want to introduce those collectivist policies, which unfortunately led to many deaths (which were not intentional, they were accidents).

What about the Gulags, show trials and internal tortures and assassinations?

If such actions promoted utility, they would be morally correct.

[Transoxthraxia]

I'm economically centre-left.

I don't want to introduce those collectivist policies, which unfortunately led to many deaths (which were not intentional, they were accidents).

What about the Gulags, show trials and internal tortures and assassinations?

Accidents, all of them!

Yes, I understand that, but that's not what you were arguing.

I don't praise Stalinism and its derivatives. There!

Just like I don't praise Hiter and National Socialism, just because I identify as a fascist!

[Ardoki]

What about the Gulags, show trials and internal tortures and assassinations?

Accidents, all of them!

I don't praise Stalinism and its derivatives. There!

Just like I don't praise Hiter and National Socialism, just because I identify as a fascist!

That is an incorrect analogy.

Of course a non-Stalinist is not going to support Stalinism.

[Transoxthraxia]

Accidents, all of them!


Just like I don't praise Hiter and National Socialism, just because I identify as a fascist!

That is an incorrect analogy.

Of course a non-Stalinist is not going to support Stalinism.

Just like a non-National Socialist is not going to support National Socialism.

[Transoxthraxia]

What about the Gulags, show trials and internal tortures and assassinations?

If such actions promoted utility, they would be morally correct.

-redacted-

[Inyourfaceistan]

What about the Gulags, show trials and internal tortures and assassinations?

If such actions promoted utility, they would be morally correct.

So killing tens of thousands of people for political aim is morally correct to you?

[Ardoki]

That is an incorrect analogy.

Of course a non-Stalinist is not going to support Stalinism.

Just like a non-National Socialist is not going to support National Socialism.

Nazism is a form of fascism.

I'm centre-left, those views are not in the same group as Stalinism.

You really can't make such a comparison.

[Ardoki]

If such actions promoted utility, they would be morally correct.

So killing tens of thousands of people for political aim is morally correct to you?

The 'Greatest Happiness Principle' states that any action which promotes utility (defined as greatest amount of happiness/pleasure for the greatest amount of people) is the morally correct thing to do.

That is my view on the subject.

[Inyourfaceistan]

-snip-

Stalinism is a form of socialism.

I'm extreme-right, those views are not in the same group as fascism.

You really can't make such a comparison.

---

unsourced claims are still unsourced claims

[Transoxthraxia]

So killing tens of thousands of people for political aim is morally correct to you?

The 'Greatest Happiness Principle' states that any action which promotes utility (defined as greatest amount of happiness/pleasure for the greatest amount of people) is the morally correct thing to do.

That is my view on the subject.

The Holocaust promoted utility. Was that the right thing to do?

[Ardoki]

The 'Greatest Happiness Principle' states that any action which promotes utility (defined as greatest amount of happiness/pleasure for the greatest amount of people) is the morally correct thing to do.

That is my view on the subject.

The Holocaust promoted utility. Was that the right thing to do?

How exactly did it promote utility?

You obviously don't understand Utilitarianism.

[Transoxthraxia]

The Holocaust promoted utility. Was that the right thing to do?

How exactly did it promote utility?

You obviously don't understand Utilitarianism.

And you obviously have no clue what the word "utility" means.

[Inyourfaceistan]

So killing tens of thousands of people for political aim is morally correct to you?

The 'Greatest Happiness Principle' states that any action which promotes utility (defined as greatest amount of happiness/pleasure for the greatest amount of people) is the morally correct thing to do.

That is my view on the subject.

So you agree with Stalin's policies on political enemies, then?

[Transoxthraxia]

The 'Greatest Happiness Principle' states that any action which promotes utility (defined as greatest amount of happiness/pleasure for the greatest amount of people) is the morally correct thing to do.

That is my view on the subject.

So you agree with Stalin's policies on political enemies, then?

Who doesn't? Morally justified!

[Ardoki]

How exactly did it promote utility?

You obviously don't understand Utilitarianism.

And you obviously have no clue what the word "utility" means.

My definition is the same as used by Jeremy Bentham and John Stuart Mill, the founders of Utilitarianism.

So you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Ardoki]

The 'Greatest Happiness Principle' states that any action which promotes utility (defined as greatest amount of happiness/pleasure for the greatest amount of people) is the morally correct thing to do.

That is my view on the subject.

So you agree with Stalin's policies on political enemies, then?

For his rightist enemies, yes. Not for the leftist ones though, they were above Comrade Stalin.

[Inyourfaceistan]

So you agree with Stalin's policies on political enemies, then?

For his rightist enemies, yes. Not for the leftist ones though, they were above Comrade Stalin.

So you beleive people should be imprisoned, forced into labor, tortured and even killed if they are "rightist" or "reactionary"; correct?

[Transoxthraxia]

So you agree with Stalin's policies on political enemies, then?

For his rightist enemies, yes. Not for the leftist ones though, they were above Comrade Stalin.

"The French Revolution was the rise of democracy in Europe. Democracy is, as I take all forms of government to be, a contradiction in itself, an untruth, nothing but hypocrisy (theology, as we Germans call it), at the bottom. Political liberty is sham-liberty, the worst possible sort of slavery; the appearance of liberty, and therefore the worst servitude. Just so also is political equality for me; therefore democracy, as well as every other form of government, must ultimately break to pieces."
- Friedrich Engels, "Frankreich", 1843

Socialism is inherently anti-democratic and genocidal. Get over yourself. Unless, of course, you don't know who Friedrich Engels is.

[Ardoki]

For his rightist enemies, yes. Not for the leftist ones though, they were above Comrade Stalin.

So you beleive people should be imprisoned, forced into labor, tortured and even killed if they are "rightist" or "reactionary"; correct?

No, educated and rehabilitated.

Those who try to overthrow the state, would probably have to be killed.