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Where nations come together and discuss matters of varying degrees of importance. [In character]

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A Rightist Puppet
Envoy
 
Posts: 253
Founded: Aug 23, 2009
Ex-Nation

The Confederated Royal Charters of Brazil

Postby A Rightist Puppet » Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:26 pm

*tips hat*

Good afternoon, gents'.

Image

May I present: The Confederated Royal Charters of Brazil; founded, administered by and profitable for the Royal Charter of The Brazilian Viceroyalty. The Royal Charter Corporation, the latest manifestation of the Royal Charter, is answerable to the one and only, Pedro the IV - who knows better than too actually use his Royal Powers. Nonetheless, he is a much beloved and cherished figure.

Legislative is broken down into a proportional representative 'lower' house in which representatives are chosen in a direct election every two years and an 'upper' house in which delegates are chosen by a select group of individuals every six years. That 'select group' is composed of various state charter managers, corporate Charter elected representatives, judges and of course: Pedro IV himself. This whole process is a tad anti-democratic, more republican if not an outright oligarchy, but it works.

The judiciary branch, which resembles most other conceptualized judiciary branches other than a few eccentric changes, explained later, carries out the common law of Brazil with objective and supreme oversight. The most important part being the actual Corporate Charter itself, the foundation of the central (i.e. Corporate or federal) government. The Charter sets out the boundaries of federal law, which consists of constitutional acts of both Houses of the legislative branch (Congress), constitutional treaties, regulations, and case law originating from the federal judiciary.

The Charter of the federal government (as opposed to the individual charters of each state, which are now closer to a mandate from The Charter) is relatively modest in scope, but deep in execution. As a result, most Confederation law (especially the actual "living law" experienced by the majority of citizens on a day-to-day basis) consists primarily of state law, which can and does vary greatly from one state to the next. Though at both the corporate and state levels, the rule of law is originally and largely derived from the common law system of English law.

Promoting above all else, "life, liberty and property," the Charter gleefully plagiarizes from John Locke but doesn't feel the need to switch out 'property' for "pursuit of happiness." However, Corporate law has diverged greatly from its English ancestor both in terms of substance and procedure, and has incorporated a number of civil law innovations. The individual states are plenary sovereigns, while the corporate sovereign possesses only the limited supreme authority enumerated in the Charter.

Religion is decidedly less interesting, with a fairly Catholic and devote nation enjoying their freedom of assembly, religion and a government that doesn't have the necessary scope to matter. There is hardly any sense of 'Cultural Wars' which pervades most of the contemporary [RL] Western world. There is a wide and vocal consensus that religion matters, yet is not dominating. There is a sense of religious orthodoxy inside the country, with parishes with the most Church-aligned doctrine receiving more casual, unofficial aid. In the form of both higher attendance and more extreme, fundamentalist or reformist, churches suddenly finding their lights off, their water stopped, and permits revoked.

Demographically, The Confederated Royal Charters of Brazil's National Research for Sample of Domiciles (PNAD) census revealed the following: 76.4% of the population is White; 22.3% are Pardo (brown); 3.4% are Black; 0.1% is Asian. Most Brazilians can trace their ancestry to the country's indigenous peoples, Portuguese colonists, and African slaves. Since 1500, with the arrival of the Portuguese, miscegenation between these three groups took place. Over the three centuries of Portuguese and later Royal Charter rule some two million Portuguese have migrated to the bustling coastal cities.

A final note on the nomenclature of the country. Individual state 'charters' were initially of the significance of the current 'central Charter' however with the final governance meeting following the abdication of Pedro II from direct rule of the country - the state charters submitted to new federal/corporate/central Charter. The state constitutions are invariably referred to either as charter (with a lower case 'r'), a mandate (viz, from the central Charter) or merely a state's supreme law.

A final, final note. The Executive Branch is technically 'only' King Pedro Carlos of Orléans-Braganza, in actuality the actual execution of laws by the Congress (as well as regulations originating from the Executive Branch) is conducted by a 15 member committee of corporate leaders. Who are selected by 'shareholders,' which are a combination of public leaders, Brazilian cultural luminaries, hereditary and a few meritocratic appointments. They serve for life and are nominated at a stockholder meeting in Rio, only for 'preferred stockholders,' and the actual voting takes place with Common A shares (and up, obviously). This bears no similarities, except in political theory, to the nominal convention that takes place a few months (depending on the state) before the next session of the Upper House to nominate/vote on the Senators which inhabit those houses. This is more of mixture of elected officials, and corporate appointees.

Addition: The current king, born Pedro Carlos of Orléans-Braganza, is not to be confused with Pedro II (sometimes referred to by foriegn globalists as Pedro IV).
Last edited by A Rightist Puppet on Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I don't blog, sorry.

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The United Taifas
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 41
Founded: Nov 25, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby The United Taifas » Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:07 pm

Interesting, Rightist. I don't believe I've seen you around.

Anyway, 'Portugal' here, so if you do end up in AMW we'll have some history together. As you may notice, Portugal no longer exists in our world. However, it used to, enabling Portuguese colonialism for anyone who wants it up until 1755 when, in the wake of the Al'Išbūnah Earthquake, there was an uprising of Moors and Jews and an attempted restoration of Al'Andalus that ultimately fell short of its full aim but did libertate Al'Gharb Al'Andalus (the west of Al'Andalus, id est Portugal) from Catholic rule.

I imagined this immediately causing a severing of ties with any colonies (though until now, nobody had played Portuguese colonies, so we assume they never existed), but we can work it any way that makes sense or seems fun. If you wished, much of the Portuguese nobility could flee to Brazil in 1755 and either integrate with your populace or set up a government-in-exile that wants to return to Portugal. Or the new Muslim rulers could have attempted to hang-on to Portugal's colonies, leading to a war of secession any time after the earthquake in which your nation is forced to fight to remain Catholic as the Andalusians rebel and attempt to bring Brazil into line.

It is, of course, key to realise that in AMW the Muslim population of Portugal remained higher than in reality despite severe repression, and was ruled over -along with a Jewish minority- by a comparatively small Catholic nobility probably supported by Christian mercenaries and such. So it's quite possible that many of the Portuguese who went to Brazil -not the Captains and ranking people, of course, just the 'grunts'- would have been Muslim labourers and lowly soldiers, or Moors who were forced to convert to Christianity but may have resented it. That doesn't mean you need to have Muslims in your country today, just that until 1755 at least they would have been a feature of any Portuguese society. What happened in Brazil after the Moorish revolt back in Portugal is up to you... maybe they rebelled too, maybe you had them all killed or deported, or maybe you found a way to peacefully integrate them despite the violence back 'home'.

Anyway, you can read a little more about what became of Portugal by following the link in my signature, if you wish.
Al Tawā'if al Andalus al Muttaḥidah - Factbook
“Zeal Without Knowledge is Fire Without Light”
Chief of State: Sultan Abu Saifullah Abdulhadi al'Wafi ben Sabur al'Andalusi
Capital: Al'Išbūnah
Demonym: Andalusī or Taifan

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Spyr
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 172
Founded: Antiquity
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Spyr » Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:39 pm

An interesting proposal indeed, Rightist.

Err... a tiny spot of book-keeping, though. As AMW calculates populations and the like based on those in the RL geographic region, you wouldnt happen to know what particular Brazilian administrative divisions make up your proposed Charter Confederacy?

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A Rightist Puppet
Envoy
 
Posts: 253
Founded: Aug 23, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby A Rightist Puppet » Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:35 pm

Briefly, for Spyr. All in all I would consider the population not to top 133,206,192 - which is a very hasty generalization I can only briefly defend. It's a general copy and paste from Wikipedia, incorporating most of the population of the Northeast, Southeast and Amapa regions of Brazil. While undoubtably my territory only fully incorporates the Northeast, it does contain the majority of the prosperous Southeast - the good side of town, so to speak. What population is not technically inside the country, when compared to real-life Brazil, I would say that my country would be clearly be a target for immigration. Though, whose really debating thousands?

For Taifas; I think we need an updated front map. Though, that may be me and not anyone else.

That said, I feel that your additional insights are not a substantial problem. Add a few more Pedro's to the throne so Pedro II is Pedro III or IV, problem solved. Everything happens almost 'exactly' the way it played out but instead of a Napoleon, it is a North African equivalent a few generations before. Peter VI turns into Pedro I (or II, we'll get this all sorted out later) and would even better explain the arrested development, geographically and politically of the colony. Having a stronger continuity with the Portuguese culture, monarch and state - viewing themselves as the 'real' Portugal against 'occupied' Portugal. One could imagine not only the creation of a Royal Charter to better manage the interior (as opposed to the historical precedent of various independent contractors, simply said) but a maintaining, expansion and final crowning of it as the 'ruler' of Brazil in spite of being a inherently 'foreign' and 'imperialist' institution. Because, simply put, what makes Portugal we know and love was created in Brazil.

As for the increase in blacks, I see no reason why this would be a problem either. They were not institutionalized with a democratic sense or knowledge of 'republican' ideals which could cause problems with the political structure while Pedro II (or III, IV, maybe even V in this timeline) would free all slaves well before it becomes an issue. It could even happen earlier. Looking at it from a non-ethnic aspect, the aspect of a significant second religion - beyond tribalism/paganism - is significant. Though does that mean a religious war? A civil war? Of course not. These people are divided by the entire Atlantic, and by the time it takes less than three months to cross it (sort of hingers feelings of connections, and messages of jihad) the assimilation issue shouldn't be that divisive. It merely stretches the imagination to have a great, colonial/slave rebellion in a heavily, but not overly, slave heavy society. Not only that, but a Islamic one? I can only use so many crazy points and it is not on the first slave rebellion in a colony, and first Islamic rebellion outside Africa.

I could always put it in my history, the Great Betrayal - they play the Indian traitors to our British Lords but I honestly do not see it happening. I imagine this country to come from a turbulent, diverse, path and to have reached a vast consensus with a unique government, geopolitical situation and viewpoint. Having the colonial/slaves getting restless does nothing but add an embattled edge to the national psyche that has been done by Rhodesia to death (no offense, but it's not my style to take other people's groove).

Edit: Seems that my paragraphs have been switched around a bit. Heh, I blame Microsoft and human error.
Last edited by A Rightist Puppet on Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:59 pm, edited 6 times in total.
I don't blog, sorry.

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Nova Gaul
Diplomat
 
Posts: 710
Founded: Nov 18, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Gaul » Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:51 pm

Rightist—I heartily endorse your AMW application. I think it is appropriate, sensible, a great boon for a nearly barren hemisphere, and I look forward to seeing you get started.

I may offer a few suggestions. For example New Spain (real life Mexico, Haiti, Dominican Republic Panama City and the Panama Canal Zone) has a history almost identical with your own—the Spanish Bourbons fled Spain in 1808 and set up shop in Nueva España and an uninterrupted absolute monarchy has ruled there ever since. I am wondering in the Spanish and Portuguese royal families did not flee at the same time? I also imagine there would have been alliances and treaties between us for hundreds of years as we are very similar states, although New Spain may be more absolutist and Catholic than you.

Also the current King of New Spain Carlos II is married to Queen Alisande, who I had portrayed as a princess of the Portuguese line after the Muslims came to power back in Portugal. It might be very intuitive to make her a daughter of your royal house, as that would be quite a symbol of our alliance (and make the heir of New Spain the joint heir of Brazil).

Just some thoughts, but as for me: welcome aboard!

Oh, by the way, I suggest you check out the AMW offsite forum which you can access from the first page of this thread. There is a lot f history and such there that might help you in shaping your nation.
Last edited by Nova Gaul on Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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A Rightist Puppet
Envoy
 
Posts: 253
Founded: Aug 23, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby A Rightist Puppet » Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:13 pm

Certainly, I see no problem with a goodcop-badcop routine for South America. I'm the goodcap who gives them a good marker and your the badcop who burns them at the stake while singing "How Great, Our God."

An idea for the first RP: a royal family meeting? If you have the time, obviously; it'd be a little pretentious but help me get adjusted to dominating the Southern Hemisphere.
I don't blog, sorry.

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Kagetora
Minister
 
Posts: 2189
Founded: Sep 18, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Kagetora » Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:58 pm

Huh. I'm not really all that busy at this point of my life, and I'll be even less busy as the tennis season is ending fairly soon. I'm interested in taking the Japanese islands, including the smaller ones like Okinawa. Largely because I'm not interested in inventing a completely new version of my nation, it would be quite close to what I traditionally roleplay as.

Politically, Kagetora is an authoritarian monarchy (technically Shogunate/Baikufu). Power is hereditary, with many safeguards in place to prevent power struggles between distant cousins vying for the throne. Kagetora has a nearly powerless parliament, know as the Order of the Daimyo, the members of which form the nobility (who retain their titles but not their power). They are able to propose laws, which require approval by the Shogun (head of state) to pass, and they also serve as the highest court.

Economically, Kagetora is somewhat corporatist, though not exactly. In most definitions of corporatism I've seen, people are powerful because they own corporations. In Kagetora, the reverse is true. People own corporations because they are powerful. Government members have near monopolies on just about everything in Kagetora, and they have the power to ensure no competition to gets too large.

The government is quite militaristic, with the government largely dominated by military matters, like the KGB (Kagetorian Gendarme Bureau) is allowed to use lethal force largely because they feel like it, and any criminal caught in the act is likely to get killed. The Kagetorian High Command, comprised of the Shogun, Minister of Defense, and heads of various armed services, is the highest organization in the country.

In regards to religion, the official state religion is Atheism, but other churches are allowed to exist (though heavily taxed). They are mostly Shinto, Buddhism, and Christian.

The population is over 98% Kagetorian (AKA Japanese), and the remainder is mostly East Asian (Chinese, Korean mostly). There is a tiny minority of non-Asians.

I'll add more if this application is viewed with favor.
If you want help with something, simply send me a telegram. I'll do my best to respond intelligently, and if I can't I'll refer you to someone who can.
Caladan Imperium||Montgomery Broadcasting [EII]

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Nova Gaul
Diplomat
 
Posts: 710
Founded: Nov 18, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Gaul » Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:29 pm

I have just gotten back from a day at the track. I have found my new sport. I got this system, you see…*shakes racing digest*

I am very glad to see all the new applications. Nice.

Good to hear that Tord, thanks. I think those colonies would have gone a long way to building a relationship between Tord and New Spain, and the New World looks richer again! Welcome back.

I think Spyr sort of has a history set up with Japan Kagetora, but South East Asia is wide open, as is Indonesia and Oceania sans New Zealand. The proposal sounds interesting though, and if you would be willing to change locations there I am sure something could be worked out.

Rightist…

Well I don’t know if I quite agree with that analogy, Rightist—but I think it is fair to say that our kingdoms are two sides of the same coin. For example the Kingdom of New Spain is an absolute monarchy, the Royal Charters is an absolute monarchy-light from what I can see so far. New Spain’s monarchy has never been fettered, your government has a sort of congress. However, in fact, New Spain is a modern and cosmopolitan state that thrives on mercantile adventure and a sort of Conquistador spirit as much as if not more than Catholic Absolutism (though it is a devoutly Catholic state to be sure…I’d argue even more Catholic than Rome). And we don’t burn people alive for heresy, that is inhumane; the Spanish authorities simply abduct them from ‘harms way’, put them in an out-of-the-way solitary confinement cell, and throw away the key. This is the 21st Century after all: we don’t burn books, we just take them off the shelves. Amen.

And you are not alone in South America…you have a very vigorous and assertive Inka Empire as a contender in that category. They cover Ecuador and Peru and are quite a power in their own unique right. Right now they're getting a visit from the great-grandson of Hernan Cortes eight times removed or thereabouts, the Spaniards more or less missed the company of Native Americans for several centuries. Have to make up for lost time.

As to the RP…well, in my opinion I would say given the dates your using, that the Portuguese royals arrived in the early 19th Century (what Royal House by the way—never mind, I saw, Orléans-Braganza), New Spain and the Royal Charters would have had a long aligned and well established friendship. I mean between our two families, both Catholic, Latin, and most importantly in the Americas *European* we dominate the New World. And Nueva España’s Crown Prince I already had as Carlos de la Fuente y Borbón Braganza Aviz-Beja, the son of a Portuguese royal (Alisande) and Carlos II. So yes, a family reunion sounds good if that works for you, I am sure we have known each other though a long time. Indeed I imagine that with the birth of Carlos de la Fuente y Borbón Braganza Aviz-Beja, who is a direct heir to both houses, centuries of intermarriage between the ex-patriated Borbón and Braganza families reach its highpoint. Needless to say I image our countries do a lot of business with one another, probably have major treaties (military and political), and really have a unique relationship vis-à-vis their continental background.

If you disagree with any of that please feel free to do so, that was just what I had as my own history and how I thought it would relate to yours.

And don’t worry about being backwards here in the New World, by last count New Spain didn’t free its slaves until the 50s, the 1950s that is. But they were needed to build the Panama Canal after all. How cool is AMW and alternate history?

And I’ll go ahead and put anther link to AMW’s homepage below. I cannot stress the excellent amount of material contributed to AMW’s various players. A lot of time and effort went into it, and it really should be browsed at least by any new country. I mean there was a war between England and New Spain in the 1870s that your country may have taken sides in, let alone World War I and II. Please take a look.

http://z7.invisionfree.invalid/A_Modern_World/index.php?act=idx
Last edited by Nova Gaul on Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Kagetora
Minister
 
Posts: 2189
Founded: Sep 18, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Kagetora » Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:37 pm

Before I go and change things, I'd like to see if I can work something out with Spyr first. I know more of Japanese geography than Indochina.
If you want help with something, simply send me a telegram. I'll do my best to respond intelligently, and if I can't I'll refer you to someone who can.
Caladan Imperium||Montgomery Broadcasting [EII]

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Dra-pol
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 160
Founded: Antiquity
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Dra-pol » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:16 am

Wow, lots of interest this time around.

Good to see Tord back, Tiurabo's claim looks sound, we've got Marimaia back as well, things are looking up!

A Rightist Puppet (may just call you ARP from now on, though it'll make me think of Warden Hodges), I think the map's bang up to date, possibly even getting a bit ahead of itself in adding new players. If you're having some difficulty seeing part of the map it may be a resolution issue or something, as a few players have reportedly not been seeing the full thing until they save it. Oh, I'm not sure if TUT is talking about 'blacks' per se, more like Arabs and Berber, for what that matters. If you're thinking that the reference to Moors means he has an African empire or something, that's not the case =)

Kagetora, glad to have your interest, too.

Japan is a contentious part of AMW, but that doesn't necessarily mean we can't accommodate you.

We've had so many people come and go playing one form or other of Japan that it really started to make life difficult for many of us, especially Spyr -in Manchuria-ish- and I -in Korea-, so we finally decided to make part of Japan an NPC country with a history that wouldn't keep changing. However, we made some effort to make it adaptable should other players come along wanting to RP in Japan, so I'll try to make some suggestions...

We have created the Empire of Yashima, covering the islands of Ryukyu, Kyushu, Shikoku, Awaji, with a population of roughly 18.9 million, leaving Honshu, Hokkaido, and some other islands unclaimed. Yashima fills the role of Imperial Japan so that Spyr and I can keep our histories, and it also fills in for the US in some ways, and the former AMW nation of the US Quinntonia, fighting the equivalent to the Korean War amongst other things, and today it has one imperial holding left, what would be southern South Korea in reality.

In AMW, the term 'Korea' doesn't mean anything, the peninsula being instead Dra-pol, though still divided.

Anyway, we need to keep the history established with Yashima but it may be possible for Yashima and Kagetora to have a common origin -which we may call Japan, I suppose!-, to have split in the late C12th in some equivalent to the Genpei War, the Yashimans holding on in the southern islands while Kagetorans maintained control of most of the nation. We could theoretically have the two reunified only very recently under Kagetoran leadership, giving you a small empire in southern Dra-pol as well.

Unfortunately, Yashima is a Christian theocracy that believes its Emperor to be, essentially, the Second Coming, and its Christian-flavoured imperialism on the mainland is of particular importance to Dra-pol.

Options, then.

1) We can try to work out some method for devoutly Christian Yashima and its demi-god of an emperor to unify with atheist Kagetora, though I'm coming up short on ideas just at the moment. Maybe Spyr has helpful thoughts.

2) We can have a reunification war in which Kagetora over-runs Yashima, probably sparking a similar reunification war in Dra-pol as the Communists leap at the opportunity to over-run the Yashimans once and for all. Perhaps a Kagetoran-Drapoel joint conspiracy against Yashima. This would likely be a major struggle, as Yashima's is also a proud and militaristic society, and many of its soldiers are prepared to give their lives for the Teikirisuto, Christ-Emperor, but they would be surrounded and outnumbered and sure to lose eventually. The main problem there would be figuring-out why it hadn't happened sooner,... we'd need some way of explaining why Kagetora didn't attack Yashima years ago, such as when it was fighting one of history's bloodiest wars on the mainland in the '60s and '70s.

3) You can make do without 18.9 million Yashimans and the southern islands of RL Japan. You'd still have about 108.1 million people, which is fairly big in AMW terms. Also we could find you some colonies if you'd desire it. There's still a questionmark over the twin cities of Hamhŭng and Hŭngnam (on the east coast of Dra-pol in RL DPRK), which are supposed to be an imperial exclave of about 1.1 million people. Ideally it would be held by a Christian power, but since Quinntonia left it hasn't been clear whether Yashima, Russia, or Rome, or someone else may fill the role, and possibly Kagetora would work instead, and I can make do with having Yashiman Christians in the south. Then, most of China including Taiwan are just voids in AMW at the moment, of which anything -not necessarily Chinese- may be made.

Sorry it's so complicated, but AMW's pretty involved like that =) I hope we can find a satisfying place for you.

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A Rightist Puppet
Envoy
 
Posts: 253
Founded: Aug 23, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby A Rightist Puppet » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:54 am

Registered on the forums NG and will be attempting to flesh out the country over the next, well, year.

At this point I believe the next best step would be to develop a holistic timeline of the two royal families' inter-mingling and fraternization. If not for only for me and you, I for one quickly lose myself trying to navigate the small intracies of my houses's blood line, but for the wider AMW world which may not be overly interested in royalty unless it comes prepackaged in an eye pleasing graphic. I could likely hammer a complete list out in a day or so if you would commit to pinpointing exactly where the lines intersect and of more importance, what happens to the new lines. As the individual with a country already up and running, I give you full leeway to organize Pedro IV's ancestors in almost any fashion. I'm just in a genealogy mood, will do some light tweaking, and if you could just bear with my obsession that'd be fantastic.

I think one issue, one I did not fully consider, was where the Orleans side would come from. Huh. Well, that's what this is for - testing the limits of knowledge to see what comes out the other side.

A slight question, are AMW RP's conducted on the off-site forum or here? I've seen a few on these NS Forums, not so many on the off-site one's, but would care not to discover the reason no one is replying is because I've posted in the wrong spot. Though I'm hoping you start the Royal Jamboree, if only because I wouldn't know where to start. ;)

Monarchy-light, at best. The history is up in the air but most power is consolidated within the towering obelisk of the Royal Charter Corporation. Whose mysterious denizen(s) contain the majority votes for the selection of the real members of the Executive Branch, the judiciary and in most years the Upper House of the Senate. The Royal Holdings technically possess 50%+1 of the preferred stock but this is mostly a ephermeal continuation of the absolute power the Royal Seal commanded at the height of its power. If the King did strike something down, or block a Senate appointee (by directing the varying quantity of votes reserved for the corporation, which to be clear is decided by the theoretically independent governmental committee of 15; the Tábua de Governaçãos or simply put, the Governing Board) it would certainly go through but would likely be the last time he would be able too. His tenuois position would become effectively a losing position.

Which is better in my eyes. There's now the added dynamic of two close Royal families, of the Iberian, in which the latter has fallen from their former's level of power. Work with it? Topple the consensus? You're the crazy power, the Incas are only slightly less so and I straddle the middle waiting for someone to push me one direction or another. Which is a fairly solid situation indeed.

I would imagine there would also be other difficulties, of both culture and most especially what the scope of the government means. In both cases, there is a certain taste of absoluteness but in my case - it would be the absoluteness of a document and even more importantly, there is always the presence of a rich, independent, political history. Where I imagine New Spain as a modern formulation of the old conquistador system. Entailing a certain level of Royal dominance, a lack of attachment to any local institution and a fiercely adventurous disposition. The Confederated Royal Charters of Brazil would be the contemporary evolution of the old Charter system - instead of bandeiras. With an emphasis of benevolent disinterest of the Royal House in most non-financial affairs, an attachment to the insulating presence of the Charter Companies and a distinctly more contented personality.

Still, I imagine both to be relatively urban, Catholic with small religious minorities, Latin and share a similar history. So there's no reason they can't get alone, just merely: there are some difficulties to the relationship like there is in any.
I don't blog, sorry.

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Nova Gaul
Diplomat
 
Posts: 710
Founded: Nov 18, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Gaul » Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:49 pm

Cool ideas about Japan…I agree with Dra-pol; I think this recruitment is going splendidly the second time around!

Heya ARP. I’ll try to be brief, as this is the recruitment thread, and I have a tendency to wax long-winded. As is stated on the first page the off-site forums are when many of us AMWers put our fact books and write histories and factoids…a very useful place it is too…but all the real RP is done here on the boards (I smile as I write that, AMW en masse seems to have migrated to the NationStates section of the boards, which I am very happy about). You haven’t missed anything, its just been rather slow of late. And do not worry about writing up the minutiae of House Braganza, there is at least one person here who is fascinated about such material. The Orleans so far as I know are a minor House of the larger Bourbons, a cadet branch as the nomenclature goes; we may even be related back from the days when our families dwelled in old Europe. So then…

In brief here is the ruling line of the Spanish Borbóns (like you may do I kept most of the background and House accurate but tweaked individual kings/queens as needed to suit New Spain—and please bear in mind the kingdom was founded unofficially by Hernán Cortés in 1519):

Ferdinand I (VII of Spain)—Reigned: 9/16/1808-9/30/1868
Isabella I—Reigned: 10/1/1868- 12/15/1886
Ferdinand II—Reigned: 12/15/1885-6/2/1901
Ferdinand III—Reigned: 6/2/1901-4/14/1931
Ferdinand IV—Reigned: 4/14/1931-1/31/1932
Isabella II—Reigned: 1/31/1932-11/20/1969
Carlos I—Reigned: 1/20/1969-6/8/1999
Carlos II—Reigned: 6/8/1999-Current

To wit: I think our families would have a long standing relationship. It began in old Europe by means of dynastics and continued on through our families flight from the Iberian in the early 19th Century (you actually may have been the first over due to Islamic Al-Andalus being founded in 1755, but you and he can work that fascinating detail out). It is actually rather interesting that both royal houses of the Iberian fled to the New World to rebuild their monarchies there: the Kingdom of Nueva España combining a New World Conquistador mentality and Old World Catholic absolutism, the Confederated Royal Charters of Brazil combining a more liberal (as in free-holding and federated, somewhat like Tiruabo I think) New World mentality and a more Enlightenment dominated Old World monarchy with popular representation. As you point out we have much in common, and despite keen differences would see the world in much the same terms…compared at least to the remainder of AMW’s globe.

Our families therefore might have been related since Henri IV of France for all we know. However for purposes of real history we can say the first royal marriages (marriages between noble families—some with stakes in both realms maybe—would have occurred since the beginning) began probably with Isabella II. At that time New Spain and maybe Brazil blossomed into full fledged modern states and decided to firmly link themselves to one another. Though she was married only briefly (when both bride and groom were 16) Isabella II may have had a Braganza consort, therefore both Carlos I (who was married to a Roman dame) and Carlos II would share some Braganza blood. Here is my main idea: I think the major link and statement off alliance between the Borbón-Braganzas came with Carlos II’s marriage to Princess Alisande de Braganza, both of pure lines and both the direct children of reigning monarchs. Their son, Carlos de la Fuente y Borbón Braganza Aviz-Beja, Crown Prince of Nueva España, and his sister Isabella Mercedes de la Fuente y Borbón Braganza Aviz-Beja, would be physical incarnations of the trust and friendship between the two Catholic and Latin royalties. The children would be the ultimate statement of Spaniard/Portuguese alliance in the New World. Hope that helped, don’t worry too much about the history of kings and queens and such, that was just a rough outline.

I would be delighted to start the Family Jamboree thread. Because I really don’t know too much of Brazil I am inclined to start in Ciudad Real, capital of New Spain and the largest city in the Western Hemisphere. There is the Inka thing going on, which should make for interesting conversation, and our other American neighbor Texas/Tiurabo who is pretty much the total opposite of our states. and there are plenty of events and states and material in the world to discuss as well.

Anywho, some ideas, but its great to have you aboard. I think Brazil is a very logical and fascinating entry into AMW.
Last edited by Nova Gaul on Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Neo Imperialis
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Founded: Sep 07, 2009
Ex-Nation

The Neo Imperialis

Postby Neo Imperialis » Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:08 pm

For your consideration the The Neo Imperialis. Emperor Aleksander Romulasak the 8th leads the nation. He is generally considered among the citizens one of the better rulers of the Neo Imperialis. His reign has lead to the Imperialis becoming far less isolated from the world and to having open borders with the rest of the world.

The government has two branches. The peoples' branch made up of a house of democratically elected representatives who's main job is to pass laws and generally appease the needs of the citizenry. The terms for representatives are for five years. The other branch is the Imparitor's branch which made up of the Emperor who has veto power over laws passed and control over the military.

The legal system is Imperialis common law. Judges are appointed by the peoples' branch but can be removed by the emperor. There is a supreme court made up of the three wisest men of the Imperialis chosen by the emperor himself; they can only be removed from office by retirement or death. Some cases may go to the emperor himself if the supreme court decides that it is of supreme impotence but this rarely happens.

The location of the Imperialis is within the borders of Norway, Sweden and Finland. Citizens are well suited to the cold climate of the Imperialis and excel at winter sports. The national sport is Hockey, which the Imperialis's national team is infamous for its victories. The Imperialis has but one colonial asset the island of Iceland which has been honey combed and been turned into a military fortress.

The military of the Imperialis is broken into three branches, The Royal Army of the Imperialis, The Royal Navy of the Imperialis and finally The Royal Imperial Air Command. All able bodied men and women are subject to a term of three years or more if need be. The RNI has four zones of coverage, the Baltic sector, the Artic Sector, the Atlantic sector and finally Icelandic command and control. The Iceland sector is well guarded by the first fleet which maintains a three hundred kilometer cordon around the island which is heavily fortified. The Imperialis controls a small stock of high yield nuclear weapons which act as weapons of last resort in the defense of the motherland.

Iceland as stated before is been converted into a fortress. It has enough supplies to be under siege for ten years. It is also a fallback position in case the motherland has been over run by invaders. It was taken during the second world war to ensure it did not fall into the hands of the Nazi empire during their “arctic offensive” and was not given back afterward due to the tyrannical rule of Emperor Aleksander Romulasak the 5th. It has also been site to recent secret military experiments which nature can not be verified but a partial reactor meltdown was detected.

The economy of the Imperialis is a mixed one. Oil, Coal and Timber are the major exports while wheat and computer components are the major imports. People are allowed to spend what they wish but the 75% tax rate has received some scrutiny. The Imperialis's major industries are steel production and weapons manufacturing due to their home made military. The GDP is slightly less then that of Germany. Funding from the government puts the military as a first priority. Education and health care are secondary but still highly funded.

The Imperialis holds freedom dear. All citizens over the age of 18 have the right to bear arms. Crime is minimal due to the large police force made up military units. The press is allowed to question everything even the decisions of the emperor but attacks on him personally is a major faux pas. Citizens have access to any text or information source they wish.

In conclusion the Neo Imperialis is a nation which has put great pride in its military and citizens as a whole. The economy is powerful and wishes to expand. The military is vast but is a great strain on resources and manpower. Iceland is an island fortress which its true proposes are still a mystery. I hope the Imperialis interests you and allow it to join your game.
Last edited by Neo Imperialis on Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Dra-pol
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Dra-pol » Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:56 pm

Wow. Uh, interesting proposal!

The rate of new applications including some from previously unfamiliar players would almost make me think that there's one guy who really likes us and wants to take over the whole map, but then even if that were so, so long as he played it well I wouldn't really mind.

Interesting part of the world to take, NI. With Norway you'd become one of the top active petro-powers because Venezuela, Canada, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq, Nigeria, Angola, and so on are all dead space in AMW, and most of us get our petroleum from Parsistan (most of Iran), Russia, or from coal.

Most of it sounds okay, but I have my doubts about the possibility of stocking Iceland to resist a ten year siege. You need, like... food, and stuff. If Iceland were your last stand, it'd have no food imports and its fishing fleet would presumably be shut-down, so unless you've got like forty billion cans of tinned beans and a giant cave full of mushrooms I dunno about that bit. But the principle of it being an essentially military-controlled island for power-projection might be quite reasonable.

Also, if you attempt to control 300km of sea around Iceland, you'd almost certainly run into major trouble with the British Empire. That's not to say it couldn't be your policy, just that you should realise how controversial it might be, and that it may cause serious tensions with one of the biggest powers in the world =)

Where would your nation align itself? I mean, probably it would be close to one of the two major European power blocs. One is the liberal capitalist democracies including Britain, the Baltic Federation (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania), and Germany-Cassanos (Poland), and the other is the Feudal Christian states of Rome (Italy, France, Spain, Greece) and Russia (most of Russia, Ukraine, Belarus).

There is also Beddgelert (Hungary, Romania, Serbia, Albania, Bulgaria) representing the Communists , but it doesn't seem that your nation would like them very much! Oh, maybe Al'Andalus (Portugal) is aligned to the liberal capitalists, though it's not a democracy.

Basically, would you side with the authoritarian Christian empires, or the typical western capitalists?

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Neo Imperialis
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Ex-Nation

Postby Neo Imperialis » Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:24 pm

Yeah 10 years seems a little much to assembly that much beans would be quite the undertaking. I think six months to a year would be more reasonable. Also for the cordon of Iceland should be the U.N. coastal standard of 200km I believe. As for the who NI would side with it would definitely be the Capitalists. NI thinks the feudal Christians are pretty backwards and will probably have lots of friction with them. Its not like their not religious they just think their foolish to have their nation formed around Christianity. NI will be friendly with the communists if they trade and don't wish to "mess" with NI. Finally dictatorships are going to be met with scorn there are really hated in the nation.

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Deltuva
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Ex-Nation

Postby Deltuva » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:22 pm

Dra-pol wrote:Claiming!!!:we'll want a more detailed introduction to their nation and perhaps a sample of what they'll be RPing with it. Thanks!

So, heres mine idea: The (holy?) Kingdom of Axum (territory: Ethiopia, Somalia, Eritrea and Djibouti).
The kingdom is absolute monarchy with Axumian Orthodox Church (Ethiopian Orthodox Church in RW) playing a major role. The kingdom established 4 c. BC, once was a major player in world… (well, till mid-19 c. AD it’s more or less same as real history of Ethiopia).
1870’s- 1930’s kingdom fight series of wars to unite all east- north Africa and ended in present borders.
Despite the fact, that king officially is absolute monarch, the king is more a,puppet while the real power lies in second man hands (like in Baghdad Caliphate or Kingdom of Italy during WWII). In Axum case, that man is Prime minister. As Head of government he de facto holds all real executive and legislative power. The House of Provincial delegates, consist of 2 delegates from province, appointed by governors of province.
The legal system is based on Codex of Haile Selassie I. Judges is appointed by prime minister and minister of justice.
The power of Prime minister is based on support of military clique and Axum Nationalist League.
Were is only one power, The Church, who can not be neglected.
As one of oldest christian Churches in world Axumian Orthodox Church claims to represent true faith. The head of Church, Patriarch of Axum, is member of minister cabinet, while each diocese have one representative (appointed by bishop) in the House of Provincial delegates.
The military, as usual is divided in tree branches- army, navy, and air force
(I will calculate numbers after claim approvement).
Economic is based on agriculture ( livestock and beans mainly) and mining of natural resources, with weak heavy industry and light industry orientated to home consumption.
In general its half- theocratic dictatorship with limited economy.

The main direction of Axum foreign policy probably is reclaim territories in Arabia peninsula.

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Nova Gaul
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Founded: Nov 18, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Gaul » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:47 pm

All this new activity is phenomenal, more so because of the high caliber of the claims. And Dra-pol—don’t forget New Spain as a source of oil export, we are probably on a level just below Parsistan. Anyways it looks as though the new trend in AMW is for larger nations, but as that seems to be the pattern now I see no problem with it since everyone uses the real life facts of their territories.

A Rightist Puppet: I think your claim is fine. If you do a fact book about your nation that would be great. Otherwise, if no one objects, I think you can g ahead and start RPing. Welcome aboard!

Neo: Likewise I think your claim is fine, it makes sense and sounds cool. Everything seems great and sensible so you have my support.

Deltuva: Likewise again I think your claim is excellent. You have a great idea and you’d be at an interesting location alongside British, Rhodesian, and Lusakan claims. You have my support too.

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Spyr
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Founded: Antiquity
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Spyr » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:43 am

A surprising flurry of activity, and claims popping up rather far from where I’d have expected. A good sign, certainly, though I must warn my colleagues against being swept up in speedy torrent of new applications… best to grant approval slowly, with due thought, than too quickly only to run into issues later on.

A summary is in order, I think, so we’re all up to date on our latest applicants. At the moment things are mostly afield from my perspective, and I’ve seen nothing particularly objectionable amongst the bids, but there are members closer to the proposed states who ought voice their approval before we barrel ahead.

Tiurabo:
Territory: Texas
Population: 24,326,974
Safe to say this has been approved, with assent from a good number of members.

Tord:
Territory: Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Aruba, Netherlands Antilles.
Population: 27,952,224
Has also received assent from several members, though not those directly bordering the claim. Word from Cassanos, Gurg, and/or Vecron would be nice to make sure we haven’t missed anything.

A Rightist Puppet:
Territory: Bulk of the Northeast, Southeast and Amapa regions of Brazil.
Population: 133,206,192 (approx.)
Seems to be getting on rather well with NG, royal genealogy and all, which is a very good sign. The sparseness of AMW’s Americas means the only other local player who might have immediate concerns would be Tahuantinsuyu (though, being our Portugal, Taifas also merits influence here). My only issue here is one of population, which ends up somewhat higher than typical for new bids, but certainly not enough to call for denial.

Kagetora:
Territory: TBD (Japan-ish)
Population: TBD
A lot to be examined/discussed/worked-out here. Dra-pol’s post above covers all the relevant details.

Neo Imperialis:
Territory: Norway, Sweden, Finland, Iceland.
Population: 19,277,159
Seems generally good from my perspective. Immediately relevant opinions would be Gurg (particularly due to the proposed zone around Iceland) and Kiev (due to being on the Finnish border)… probably Cassanos and Somewhereistonia ought get a chance to voice their views as well, as they’ll be sharing the Baltic with the proposed state.

Deltuva:
Territory: Ethiopia, Somalia, Eritrea and Djibouti
Population: 101,232,578
As per ARP, population is a bit high, but not extremely so. I’d like to hear from Gurg and Rhodesia on this one, as it’s a large state smack-dab between them (perhaps Lusaka as well, if he’s got the details of his own incarnation down). The existence of an African kingdom in the modern day will certainly cause a bit of a shakeup for the argument that the natives are incapable of self-rule.
Aksum would also provide an interesting political dynamic… as a theocratic monarchy, it seems to fall squarely on the side of Rome and Kiev in AMW’s Cold War, while those same powers are much more likely to ignore Rhodesia’s disenfranchised majority and happily conduct trade. Perhaps they’d be two enemies with mutual friends, or perhaps the British, concerned over Aksum’s proximity to its colony in the Sudan, have been forced to overlook the more distasteful elements of Rhodesia in order to maintain close relations and secure a counterbalance (which in turn would sour Anglo-Spyran relations quite a bit… we may be incorrigible revisionists, but there’s no bloody way we could sell Greater Rhodesia as falling under shelter of the Popular Front umbrella. Students would storm the Congress, and the Parsistanis would never speak to us again).
On a desire to reclaim holdings on the Arabian peninsula, such may have to wait until we’ve a player to fill the void there, after which histories can be bounced about. There’s an RP brewing in Sab’yn (RL Yemen) whose dynamic will be adjusted significantly by the presence of a state such as Aksum… should prove interesting, if approval goes through.

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Marimaia
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Posts: 825
Founded: Antiquity
Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Marimaia » Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:17 am

Spyr wrote:Deltuva:
Territory: Ethiopia, Somalia, Eritrea and Djibouti
Population: 101,232,578
As per ARP, population is a bit high, but not extremely so. I’d like to hear from Gurg and Rhodesia on this one, as it’s a large state smack-dab between them (perhaps Lusaka as well, if he’s got the details of his own incarnation down). The existence of an African kingdom in the modern day will certainly cause a bit of a shakeup for the argument that the natives are incapable of self-rule.
Aksum would also provide an interesting political dynamic… as a theocratic monarchy, it seems to fall squarely on the side of Rome and Kiev in AMW’s Cold War, while those same powers are much more likely to ignore Rhodesia’s disenfranchised majority and happily conduct trade. Perhaps they’d be two enemies with mutual friends, or perhaps the British, concerned over Aksum’s proximity to its colony in the Sudan, have been forced to overlook the more distasteful elements of Rhodesia in order to maintain close relations and secure a counterbalance (which in turn would sour Anglo-Spyran relations quite a bit… we may be incorrigible revisionists, but there’s no bloody way we could sell Greater Rhodesia as falling under shelter of the Popular Front umbrella. Students would storm the Congress, and the Parsistanis would never speak to us again).
On a desire to reclaim holdings on the Arabian peninsula, such may have to wait until we’ve a player to fill the void there, after which histories can be bounced about. There’s an RP brewing in Sab’yn (RL Yemen) whose dynamic will be adjusted significantly by the presence of a state such as Aksum… should prove interesting, if approval goes through.


Well I have no problem with the Axum idea. I mean, yes, they'll more than likely hate Great Rhodesia with a fiery vengeance, but that's never stopped a Rhodes before. As far as the argument regarding self-rule, well, the Rhodesians would point at them and play up the negative aspects of their state while ignoring any good aspects. Do you honestly think that a hyper-rich family who have made their money from exploiting indigenous populations are going to blink at the idea of lying to their workforce? They do it through the 'education system' as it is. Oh, and we love the Progs just as much as they love us :P

We don't really have many people in Africa at all; Gurg has his territories, I have Great Rhodesia, and we don't have proper confirmation of whether Lusaka is definitely coming back. Axum helps to fill the void and the idea behind it seems perfectly feasible to me.

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Somewhereistonia
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Founded: Oct 31, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Somewhereistonia » Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:27 am

Ok, I should probably be reading for my seminar, but I have tomorrow off, so I guess I can make time for this. At a glance the new flood of members looks good, but I have to agree with Spyr, some caution should be exercised. As New Imperialis is the only one directly relevant to me atm I feel I should probably write something about it.

Neo Imperialis wrote:Emperor Aleksander Romulasak the 8th leads the nation. <snip>The government has two branches. <snip>The legal system is Imperialis common law.<snip>


Fine, fine, fine.

Neo Imperialis wrote:The location of the Imperialis is within the borders of Norway, Sweden and Finland. Citizens are well suited to the cold climate of the Imperialis and excel at winter sports. The national sport is Hockey, which the Imperialis's national team is infamous for its victories. The Imperialis has but one colonial asset the island of Iceland which has been honey combed and been turned into a military fortress.


The winter sports thing is kind of irrelevant in AMW, if you want to get involved in NS sports (as I do) that is fine, but it really has nothing to do with AMW unless your culture is so deeply involved in sport as to affect international relations. Just so you know.

I have major reservations about Iceland being some kind of fortress, this is the sort of thing I would expect from Red Alert (which does actually do this). In reality this would be impossible to do, or near enough with your population etc. It is just far too much for a state to organise even if everything else is dropped to achieve it. I just don't think such a fortress is viable in MT.

Neo Imperialis wrote:The military of the Imperialis is broken into three branches, The Royal Army of the Imperialis, The Royal Navy of the Imperialis and finally The Royal Imperial Air Command. All able bodied men and women are subject to a term of three years or more if need be. The RNI has four zones of coverage, the Baltic sector, the Artic Sector, the Atlantic sector and finally Icelandic command and control. The Iceland sector is well guarded by the first fleet which maintains a three hundred kilometer cordon around the island which is heavily fortified. The Imperialis controls a small stock of high yield nuclear weapons which act as weapons of last resort in the defense of the motherland.


Any idea of the size of your forces. Exact details are not necessary, but a good idea of number of ships etc is highly recommended.

Neo Imperialis wrote:Iceland as stated before is been converted into a fortress. It has enough supplies to be under siege for ten years. It is also a fallback position in case the motherland has been over run by invaders. It was taken during the second world war to ensure it did not fall into the hands of the Nazi empire during their “arctic offensive” and was not given back afterward due to the tyrannical rule of Emperor Aleksander Romulasak the 5th. It has also been site to recent secret military experiments which nature can not be verified but a partial reactor meltdown was detected.


As mentioned above, I really don't like this fortress idea. Iceland is a huge island. Whilst it can be made harder to attack, a full fortressification is just not AMW style MT. The "secret military experiments" bit also causes my eyebrows to raise in a skeptical fashion. Nuclear development is fine and I have nothing against that, but some sort of "sekrit base" is a bit... worrying.

Neo Imperialis wrote:The economy of the Imperialis is a mixed one. Oil, Coal and Timber are the major exports while wheat and computer components are the major imports. People are allowed to spend what they wish but the 75% tax rate has received some scrutiny. The Imperialis's major industries are steel production and weapons manufacturing due to their home made military. The GDP is slightly less then that of Germany. Funding from the government puts the military as a first priority. Education and health care are secondary but still highly funded.


Well, computer components can come from the Baltic, we do that stuff. GDP looks on the high side. Germany's GDP is 3,673,105. The four nations combined 1,220,207. A little under Germany is three times what you would expect. A little bit too far imo. 75% tax rate seems huge, so I doubt there is much of a private sector to speak of. This seems to suggest that your nation would be closer to Kiev and Rome than Britain, Germany, Cassanos and the Baltic Federation.

I'm not definitely against you signing up, but I really would like some of these points to be discussed in a lot more detail before I would be happy with your admission.

<Beddgelert> if that were true, i'd never have woken up with pockets full of ketchup
<Nth|Tableinating> Oi, my slow semen have nothing to do with this conversation!

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A Rightist Puppet
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Posts: 253
Founded: Aug 23, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby A Rightist Puppet » Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:15 pm

Great, great and great NG. I agree with no reservations on all the topics. Now, to putting that down in stone... Quite a different story. :p

If an RP is started, I will follow!

Spyr wrote:A Rightist Puppet:
Territory: Bulk of the Northeast, Southeast and Amapa regions of Brazil.
Population: 133,206,192 (approx.)
Seems to be getting on rather well with NG, royal genealogy and all, which is a very good sign. The sparseness of AMW’s Americas means the only other local player who might have immediate concerns would be Tahuantinsuyu (though, being our Portugal, Taifas also merits influence here). My only issue here is one of population, which ends up somewhat higher than typical for new bids, but certainly not enough to call for denial.


Taifas really didn't get back to me, I'd still enjoy his opinion on my clarifications; they really are in need of some additional smelting.

And Tahu, definitely would ejoy his opinion on another pseudo-European country next door.

As for the population... We can always shave some off but I'd really not enjoy a considerable chunk ripped from this country's nascent history.
I don't blog, sorry.

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Tahuantinsuyu Empire
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Posts: 76
Founded: Nov 27, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Tahuantinsuyu Empire » Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:47 pm

No time to post at length just now, merely dropping by to say that I haven't any serious objections to recent applications. I think Qusqu will regard ARP's Brazil with some hostility, but we're not exactly on pally terms with anyone at the moment, so that's okay, I suppose!

As mentioned, the population is on the high side for an AMW newbie, but he's already kept it short of even the full RL country of Brazil so I think that probably suggests good intentions. Someone who was in it for the wrong reasons preumably would have tried at least to claim the whole country.

Sorry if I missed it in my haste, but have you thought much about the nation's economic strength? At the moment the only other nation on the continent has a medieval economy far smaller than the RL nations it covers and conducting no meaningful trade with its neighbours, so relative to real-life certainly a good deal more than ten billion dollars in trade conducted between Brazil and countries covered fully or partly by Tahuantinsuyu would evaporate. Obviously you'd find other partners, it just seemed worth mentioning the loss of some local trade.

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San Cristofore
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 5
Founded: Feb 05, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby San Cristofore » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:00 pm

Heylo darlings. You might remember me as The Gupta Dynasty/Yafor 2 who was around in various incarnations as the Ottoman Empire during the last trip around. You know, that place that cast aside Depkazia, argued with the Elians, generally moved around Greece irritatedly, invaded Lebanon. That place.

Anyway, despite the fact that I have like negative time at the moment (although once that pesky little thing called college apps finishes up, I should have a lot more time - i.e., during the latter half of the school year my schedule should be basically free), I'd like to possibly apply. The area that I'm currently looking at is Tunisia, which is of course that little North African country. That'd give me a population of around 10 million (wiki sez 10,327,800), which is small enough that if I go on one of my hiatuses (like I did for that short-lived incarnation as Burma in the second reboot) I really won't be harming anyone.

I couldn't help but notice that this version of AMW has a *lot* of radical Catholic types and a small scarcity of Protestants (as well as notice the very interesting discussion about Christianity going on in the other thread) and I figure that a small Protestant state in North Africa could fill the void. I was thinking a state that was ethnically white, but strangely German/Italian-esque - considering that there seem to be a lot of Papal states, I'd imagine a bit of a mix. Ethnically it really shouldn't matter all that much, considering that it's really not all that important except to note that it's ethnically European, but whatever.

I was thinking a Protestant Reformation somewhat in the same time period as the RL reformation - although, if this version of AMW had a reformation at some other time, I'd be fine with that. I figure that it's lead by Juan Cristofore (ergo the name of the state) sometime in the Middle Ages, with generally the same type of theological complaints that Ulrich Zwingli had IRL - you know, that literacy/reading the Bible is very important for the everyday person, that Eucharist is purely symbolic, and that there are a lot of things in the Catholic Church (particularly all those sacraments) that are a bit excessive. I would imagine that the strong defense of Baptism would remain, though. Essentially, his argument would be against the excesses of the Catholic Church and these would be his theological justifications for that.

Cristofore would be the type of person who had an angry response to the Church for whatever reason, most likely in a university town somewhere (I was thinking somewhere in Italy, because they had university towns in that period RL and Spain has a reputation of being slightly controlling in that regard RL [and probably AMW as well]. I imagine that he ranted for a while and was kicked out) and when he was forced away from that area, he took a group of followers across the Mediterranean to form their own little city-state. It would make sense if the Roman Empire/Russia/whoever attacked this little city-state a lot and he proceeded to beat them back for a few centuries, which is probably the only reason that San Cristofore remains in the modern era.

Since San Cristofore would primarily be a state born out of reactionary thinking, I envision it as being very conservative - almost conservative in an opposite direction to the Church. They'd be somewhat isolationist and generally opposed to the Papal states in whatever regard that they could (which is in line with Zwingli's RL views regarding the state. I imagine that personality-wise Juan would be a lot more like Luther than Zwingli - very aggressive, very angry, and probably cultivated others like him). The state wouldn't be dominated by a the Cristoforian Church, which would be a hierarchical institution not unlike the Catholic Church, but instead be anti-hierarchical enough to deliberately avoid the person excesses of the Catholic Church, so most free money would go into things like missionary work and national defense (probably phrased in such a way that it was war against the Catholics). There would probably be an Order of Cristofore that would do the former or something.

EDIT: better explained on my post on LRR's thread in the AMW fora

That means that it would certainly be a theocracy and probably a very closed one as well. Economically it would probably be nominally free-market - merchants would come to San Cristofore for whatever reason (central location, avoiding Papal taxes or whatever) and sell there, but Cristoforians probably have a reputation of being at best standoffish and at worse abrasive. Very "holier-than-thou". That means that while there may be communities of Cristoforian merchants and expatriates scattered all over the world, they'd generally be clannish, stick to the confines of their own religion, probably only go out to attempt to convert others to the faith, and certainly not very welcoming to foreigners. Their identity would be primarily religious in nature first.

That means that the Protestants in Cristofore evolved much differently from Zwingli IRL, which makes IC sense - the constant warring/plausible persecution that I would envision (and hopefully Rome can support me on this one) would change the peaceful, utopian vision of a Christian society into something a lot more reactive and dangerous - the fighting, isolation, and religious thinking would have taught them to look to religion first and as a result they'd be possibly the most truly religious society in the world. Which is somewhat ironic, considering that they're supposed to be born out of opposition to dogmatic religious practices.

Militarily, they're about as strong as one would expect. They don't invade nations (preferring to spread the word through the Order of Cristofore) but they will fight for their own sovereignty. They'd probably dislike both sides in the "AMW Cold War", but side against the Papal States purely because those states are Catholics. Essentially, San Cristofore would be a state locked in the vestiges of medieval Reformation Europe, despite being in the modern world and in North Africa. Sucks to be them, at least.

Hopefully y'all are interested and if not, I'll get back to you as soon as I can. Just wanted to post now because I had the idea fly into mine head.

~Yaf'
Last edited by San Cristofore on Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Deltuva
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Posts: 44
Founded: Jun 16, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Deltuva » Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:25 pm

Spyr wrote:Deltuva:
Aksum would also provide an interesting political dynamic… as a theocratic monarchy, it seems to fall squarely on the side of Rome and Kiev in AMW’s Cold War, while those same powers are much more likely to ignore Rhodesia’s disenfranchised majority and happily conduct trade.

Ewen more- there is a inner conflict between church and government- more pragmatic and highly infested by secular ideas. And this conflict also may have importance in international relations sphere. Or maybe not.
[center]Historical issue [/center]
As for now, replies to my claim is positive, I began to work with history. Unification of Axum began only in second half of 19th century, so its more likely, that in Somalia or Eritrea was some European (Spain, Portugal, Britain mainly, I guess) colonies. Inform me if you had any colonies here , I will add this to my history.
Last edited by Deltuva on Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Gurguvungunit
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Posts: 53
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Gurguvungunit » Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:28 pm

Holy. Shit. After around two years of nothing, this is going to take some getting used to. First, I'm going to have to request that everyone who we don't know already submit a sample of roleplay. I don't know why we don't always insist on this, since it's something that we tend to keep putting in our claims bit. I mean, I don't want to be a dick, but it's our rule.

Neo Imperialis: Couple of things. OOCly I'm largely in favor pending your RP sample, and ICly I'll be glad to have a new liberal democracy to rule as a puppet state co-operate with fully and on an equal level. Like a few have pointed out, it's pretty much impossible to turn something into a fortress that would last a ten year siege, but one year or two could be managed well enough, depending on how many people you tried to pack in. As for the exclusion zone, I have no problem with it so long as my cod fishermen can still fish the area and whatnot. If they can't, well, we'll talk.

Axum: I like it, I think. As with others, I'm awaiting an RP sample.

Tord: I think you're already in, but I'll give my somewhat late vote of approval.

ARP: I can't help but thinking of the AARP, but that's really just me. Your claim provides me with an interesting opportunity; a monarchist that I can deal with. Assuming you don't decide to join the others in hating on Britain, I think we can probably be friends.

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