International Union of Equality and Freedom (IC)

[Teddy Bear Republic]

Porkof sighed. "With all due respect, it is somewhat ... contradictory to our message, bringing guards in here. I'm sure Spire's security isn't that bad. Personally, my guards are outside this diplomatic building. It's getting a tad bit crowded in here."
"Moving on with the discussion. When can the earliest possible meeting be - does not have to be physical - with the extremist terrorist group in question?"
"In addition, further adding to the debate on how to treat countries that break these rules, we agree with Spires in that respect - that harsher methods must be used. However, there may unfortunately be some questions raised about the legality of accusing nations not in our organization."

[Legokiller]

Rainbow Dash attention then when towards that bear, she facehoof herself about the extremist terrorist group. "I'm sorry but who are you Mr. bear? Beside that Legokiller has always had in history an annoying extremist terrorist group of hippies elves trying and failing on overthrowing the government for going on their backwards ways on loving nature to the max without no means of civilization structure base on it. I found this completely hilarious and pathetic that even a Pegasi city builds their cities with industry power out of clouds outbeats these wood elves living below trees!" She started laughing hard almost to the point of falling down on the floor.

[Teddy Bear Republic]

Porkof sighed. Obviously, some people had never seen a bear before. Not a problem.

"I'm Minister Raulph Porkof for Foreign Affairs for the Teddy Bear Republic Empire," he said patiently, "We were concerned about the actions of an Extremist Islamic group, which appears to be not only tarnishing the image of Islam, but also attacking various nations who are in this Union. We are also, personally, slightly concerned about the increase of, er, security in this supposedly diplomatic conference."
He looked at his list. "So, several things to sort out: Firstly, our actions and their consequences towards countries that violate basic rights, secondly, the various upcoming conferences, such as trade, and thirdly, the logo. Of course, not in that order."
He put back his list. "Suggestions, diplomats?"

[Yorobia]

Rainbow Dash attention then when towards that bear, she facehoof herself about the extremist terrorist group. "I'm sorry but who are you Mr. bear? Beside that Legokiller has always had in history an annoying extremist terrorist group of hippies elves trying and failing on overthrowing the government for going on their backwards ways on loving nature to the max without no means of civilization structure base on it. I found this completely hilarious and pathetic that even a Pegasi city builds their cities with industry power out of clouds outbeats these wood elves living below trees!" She started laughing hard almost to the point of falling down on the floor.

OOC: I'm sorry for the interruption in the IC, but are you allowed to use RainbowDash here?

[Walrusfolk Eurarcta]

Porkof sighed. Obviously, some people had never seen a bear before. Not a problem.

"I'm Minister Raulph Porkof for Foreign Affairs for the Teddy Bear Republic Empire," he said patiently, "We were concerned about the actions of an Extremist Islamic group, which appears to be not only tarnishing the image of Islam, but also attacking various nations who are in this Union. We are also, personally, slightly concerned about the increase of, er, security in this supposedly diplomatic conference."
He looked at his list. "So, several things to sort out: Firstly, our actions and their consequences towards countries that violate basic rights, secondly, the various upcoming conferences, such as trade, and thirdly, the logo. Of course, not in that order."
He put back his list. "Suggestions, diplomats?"

"Terrorism is a well-respected method of political discourse in Eurarcta," explained Representative Darkwolyn, "Thus, it is the Walrusfolk view that we should engage in their political discourse and outdiscourse them."

[Teddy Bear Republic]

Porkof had heard of some states that supported terrorism, or just accepted it as a form of political dissent. Odd as it was, he reminded himself to keep an open mind.
"Question is, is murder not a crime in your nation?" he asked. "Or how about the ideology that this group projects, which goes against this charter?"

[Yorobia]

"Henry did not take a moment to think on the thought of murder not being a crime. "Murder not being a crime is outrage. To have no law against murder is like having a car brake. Without the brakes, the car keeps going. Same with murder. If it is not stopped, it will continue going."

[Teddy Bear Republic]

"My point exactly. This terrorist group, which may be legal in your nation, has a message that is contrary to this Union, and methods that are contrary to this Union. This is why action must be taken against such a group, " explained Porkof.

[Crystal Spires]

"Oh by sweet Nenya's knickers, you must be joking. Tell me it is a joke so I don't get a sugar induced heart attack. Murder is legal? Terrorism legal? Then how are your citizens protected at all? Nothing is stopping your people from committing all out genocide from within. If you truly don't have any security at all nor rule of law I think it would be best if we enter and put union police forces in to stabilize your national and domestic security." Maven said as he let out a deep sigh.

[Walrusfolk Eurarcta]

"Right, we return a rebuttal," agreed Darkwolyn, not understanding how such standard political discourse could be misunderstood, "And we never said murder was legal, just terrorism. And should the Crystal Spires seek to send the force of the Law against walrusfolk culture, which would violate the aforementioned charter, we would have no choice but to war against your Law to protect our cultural rights and values."

She then typed in a message to her cell phone, and sent a short message off to the N.A.A.W.P. "The Crystal Spires should expect a strongly worded letter and a protest targeted against them within a fortnight." If there was one thing the N.A.A.W.P. could do well, it was protest for little-to-know-reason.

[Crystal Spires]

"Allow me to present a letter I wrote to a Doctor Hans Drucker before your arrival. I shall read it aloud for the convenience of everyone.
When the nation of Grossprussia asked a similar question about the rather vague phrase "Right of Customs" feeling that they could theoretically protect such things as "honor killings" and human sacrifice or it your case Terrorism. My response was the following:

'You have posed a fantastic question, and I will try to answer this question as clearly as I am able. My personal stand is that we are justified to judge cultures by their own merits, and even are compelled to INTERVENE if the life or dignity of a sentient being is infringed upon for whatever reasoning, and this right takes precedent over custom. This is the flow of my reasoning:

Even if people live in different frames of reality and cultural relativism is factual, there is a common binding factor that makes us all sapient which is our common desire to pursue happiness, and to avoid suffering and dissatisfaction. there must be mutual respect first in this understanding and inflicting of suffering upon another sentient being done in greed, hatred, or ignorance is what arouses anger in us, and when we see life and dignity of a sentient being infringed upon we are compelled to act.

When we observe and practice customs, a primary drive to sentient beings in an organized society which hurts certain members of that society is to keep an understanding of two important ideas which come into conflict: humane concerns versus cultural relativity. I would say that the former trumps the latter, because the whole point of being culturally sensitive stemmed from concerns about being humane in the first place. It was precisely to AVOID oppression disguised as culture. While is it certainly true that we don't want to become judgmental or attack people because of customs, we must also be careful to remember we are to be humane first and foremost.

Of course there are many grey areas, such as "Who can determine conditions to activate any intervention/judgment?" and "What are those conditions?" and this is where we become key players, debates will arise as to when to act and when not to act, and our legitimacy of acting as moral arbiters may come into question, but we have to remember that this is a quorum that promotes freedom and Equality, and if a custom is oppressive it is counter to our Raison d'être, and thus not protected.

I hope this clears that up. Therefore, no, terrorism which harms and kills innocent people is not a protected custom. Clear enough perhaps?"

[Walrusfolk Eurarcta]

"You are quick to judge, condemn, and threaten invasion of another culture you know nothing about. Such an invasion would only unite the entire Eurarctan power structure against you. Your Lawmen would end up dead, lying in a labyrinth somewhere, killed by our own Lawmen in just defense. Invade us, and the invaders will disappear into our labyrinths. We don't take kindly to threats," responded Darkwolyn, "Watch yourself."

[Crystal Spires]

"Culture is not a justification for murder, and your threats are not being taken lightly, and to be perfectly frank you have given us no reason nor justification for why terrorism should be permitted and I have clarified exactly it is not protected by the charter so our move against you would be rational and justified. We also have expressed the intention to provide an extension of police forces to stabilize your nation." Maven said placidly "belligerent acts need not be part of it. Preserving life would be our intention. In case you forget the meaning of terrorism."

[Walrusfolk Eurarcta]

"You threaten war at a peace conference?" asked the incredulous Darkwolyn, "And may I ask how your invasion, which would cause a significant loss of life, be any difference from 'terrorism'? In this instance, you would be killing people to make your political point. It is no different. If you wish to invade, then go ahead. We shall meet you in our labyrinths, warmonger."

[Aravea]

"How dare you threaten war at a conference for peace. If you are going to continue to threaten delegates I suggest you leave" the Aravean delegate said while glaring at the other delegate.

[Crystal Spires]

"Once again, we do not threaten war. It is sending in police to stabilize the area. Terrorism is terrorism, and must be controlled and if you sanction it by the state it is even more concerning. Terrorism is murder and destruction with the intention of terrorizing and coercing the populace to embrace the idea. Hence terrorism. It is unacceptable. " Maven said "And you dare have the gall to accuse me of being a warmongerer when you are allowing your citizens to die callously at terrorist hands? Have you no sense? I am acting on their behalf to protect them, not to kill them. I am suggesting sending police not soldiers."

[Salvarity]

"i feel when Salvarity was writing this charter they felt that Rights up Customs was known by all. Well i shall provide everyone with Rights of Customs. Do you know what Customs is. As in Customs Officials that you go through when Travelling Internationally. Right of Customs is the right to not be denied Entrance into a Country for Political Affiliation or Anything else protected by the charter. Rights of Customs has nothing to do with Honor Killings or Culture."

[Crystal Spires]

"Makes it even simpler, no justification at all, no protection in charter bylaws. Terrorism is terrorism. Never did I think we would have to discuss the legality of exercising terrorism over ones populace egad!" Maven said as he took his handkerchief in hand and wiped sweat from his brow.

Terrorism of all things?! The right to use terrorism? That is ridiculous. Simply ridiculous. Maven thought as he drank hot tea.

[Leepaidamba]

"Delegate Darkwolyn, I must say that you must end your appologetic defence of large scale murder on a cultural basis. Let's not forget that culture is easier to change than biology because it arises from it. Cultural or not, terrorism is inherently unrightful, not just undesirable, so making it legal is itself a violation of sapient's rights."

[Walrusfolk Eurarcta]

"I ask again how this 'stabilization' as the Crystal Spires delegate dubs it is any different. He claims the right to invade my land and impose his cultural values upon my people through threat of force. How is that any different? If this is the case, then I insist that we do not support 'terrorism' we support 'stabilization' as they are essentially the same thing, only it becomes justifiable once you name it 'stabilization'. How can you defend killing my people to prove a political point condemning the same action? I say that you wish to impose 'terrorism' on my peoples. How is it different?"

"Finally, may i again reiterate that you know nothing of Eurarctan terrorism and are condemning what you do not know."

[Leepaidamba]

"Please, Delegate Darkwolyn, explain what Eurarctan terrorism is like and how it is not large scale murder. Maybe when you've done that we can decide whether or not to help you in criminalizing it, in any case through methods other than war."

[Crystal Spires]

"Making sure civilians aren't randomly attacked by firebombs, IEDs, armed gunman, etc does not a terrorist make. " Maven said with a hearty laugh.

[Walrusfolk Eurarcta]

"Thank you then, for not jumping to militarism as soon as some others," responded Darkwolyn, "For us in Eurarcta, terrorism is a form of Political Discourse against tyrants," she glanced at the Crystal Spires representatives, "who seek to abuse the powers of the Law, or against others who have engaged in this form of Political Discourse against us (a Rebuttal). Our terrorism only targets said tyrants and is only enacted in most extreme measures when the other methods of Discourse, protesting, insurrection, and assassination, have failed. It is no different from a tyrants' action of killing those whom he deems immoral, and we do not see what the problem is. Nations like the Spires seem prone to these sorts of threats of violence all the time, so how is ours any different at all?"

"If you wish to 'help' us illegalize it, it would only unbalance the Power Structure and allow tyrants" another glance at Maven, "to gain control as they did in the Dark Times. We will fight to defend our lands and labyrinths if needed. And we do not like these threats to 'help' us."

[Walrusfolk Eurarcta]

"Why do you assume civilians are killed in Terrorism, Maven? You would be killing OUR citizens who would resist your tyrannies in any case. So you would, once again, be the exact same."

[Crystal Spires]

"Terrorism is when you Target the populace, not those in power. That is why it is called terrorism as t builds a climate of fear. Killing politicians, while regrettable and awful that it needs to be necessary at all, is not terrorism." Maven said as he annoyedly ate another lemon drop.