Lockdownn wrote:The regional officers addition sounds like a must have.
That too
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by Canton Empire » Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:26 pm
Lockdownn wrote:The regional officers addition sounds like a must have.
by Guy » Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:32 am
[violet] wrote:Never underestimate the ability of admin to do nothing.
by Canton Empire » Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:35 am
Guy wrote:I had written up a big post about this a few months ago, but can't find it now. You'll have to deal with a tl;dr version, but it's not any less important.
Basically, I think it's fair to say that it's been a hell of a long time since this Summit, yet we're yet to see any transformational changes to R/D. The whole concept of this summit was based upon the idea that there is a serious imbalance that requires correction within R/D*, yet here we are three years since the process began, and yet there is no real progress. We've been promised "soon" for years now, yet it's been too long already. And in another year or two..
To me, it's quite clear that it's time to jump off the Summit ship as being the vehicle for change within NS. For whatever reason (and I'm sure that it's a good one), Admin does not have time to implement the proposed changes. That's fine. But it's time to look at new ways we can attain this change.
Let's look at some examples of straightforward, easy-to-implement changes. No WA Admissions during update? That would, at least, make updates more negotiable for defenders. Limited regional controls within the first 12 hours? Hell, that sorta tips the balance towards numbers rather than good updating, but that'd at least give a window to react, too...
I'm sure collectively we can come up with something that we can do, quickly, and completely outside of the constraints of this Summit. And it's time for that.
by Valrifell » Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:11 am
Guy wrote:I had written up a big post about this a few months ago, but can't find it now. You'll have to deal with a tl;dr version, but it's not any less important.
Basically, I think it's fair to say that it's been a hell of a long time since this Summit, yet we're yet to see any transformational changes to R/D. The whole concept of this summit was based upon the idea that there is a serious imbalance that requires correction within R/D*, yet here we are three years since the process began, and yet there is no real progress. We've been promised "soon" for years now, yet it's been too long already. And in another year or two..
To me, it's quite clear that it's time to jump off the Summit ship as being the vehicle for change within NS. For whatever reason (and I'm sure that it's a good one), Admin does not have time to implement the proposed changes. That's fine. But it's time to look at new ways we can attain this change.
Let's look at some examples of straightforward, easy-to-implement changes. No WA Admissions during update? That would, at least, make updates more negotiable for defenders. Limited regional controls within the first 12 hours? Hell, that sorta tips the balance towards numbers rather than good updating, but that'd at least give a window to react, too...
I'm sure collectively we can come up with something that we can do, quickly, and completely outside of the constraints of this Summit. And it's time for that.
by Canton Empire » Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:15 am
Valrifell wrote:Guy wrote:I had written up a big post about this a few months ago, but can't find it now. You'll have to deal with a tl;dr version, but it's not any less important.
Basically, I think it's fair to say that it's been a hell of a long time since this Summit, yet we're yet to see any transformational changes to R/D. The whole concept of this summit was based upon the idea that there is a serious imbalance that requires correction within R/D*, yet here we are three years since the process began, and yet there is no real progress. We've been promised "soon" for years now, yet it's been too long already. And in another year or two..
To me, it's quite clear that it's time to jump off the Summit ship as being the vehicle for change within NS. For whatever reason (and I'm sure that it's a good one), Admin does not have time to implement the proposed changes. That's fine. But it's time to look at new ways we can attain this change.
Let's look at some examples of straightforward, easy-to-implement changes. No WA Admissions during update? That would, at least, make updates more negotiable for defenders. Limited regional controls within the first 12 hours? Hell, that sorta tips the balance towards numbers rather than good updating, but that'd at least give a window to react, too...
I'm sure collectively we can come up with something that we can do, quickly, and completely outside of the constraints of this Summit. And it's time for that.
Oh sure, let's activity give the finger to Raiderdom so Defenders can do their jobs effectively. The changed proposed are too radical and will definitely tip the scales too far towards Defenders.
by Canton Empire » Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:32 am
by Frisbeeteria » Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:42 am
Guy wrote:For whatever reason (and I'm sure that it's a good one), Admin does not have time to implement the proposed changes.
by Guy » Sat Aug 22, 2015 11:02 am
[violet] wrote:Never underestimate the ability of admin to do nothing.
by Canton Empire » Sat Aug 22, 2015 11:11 am
Frisbeeteria wrote:Guy wrote:For whatever reason (and I'm sure that it's a good one), Admin does not have time to implement the proposed changes.
The admins are time constrained, yes, but the problem isn't simple coding time. It's coming up with a satisfactory bit of code that maintains game balance. As you can see by the responses to your post, your "simple" change has major consequences in game balance. That's been true of every change made to date in the entire history of the game.
No matter what the team codes, it will affect game balance. Right now, defenders are more on the back foot, with raiders on the ascendency. If we make a "simple" change that kills raiding for the most part, we lose both the raiders AND the defenders. There's no R/D game left. [violet] doesn't want to let that happen.
I mostly agree that the summit was a failure. Three years is too long. I'll talk to the admins and see if they're going to do something soon. If not, maybe it's time to dump this sub-forum into the Archives.
by Frisbeeteria » Sat Aug 22, 2015 11:17 am
Canton Empire wrote:You just can't dump what you've promised to implement.
by Topid » Sat Aug 22, 2015 11:19 am
Frisbeeteria wrote:Guy wrote:For whatever reason (and I'm sure that it's a good one), Admin does not have time to implement the proposed changes.
I mostly agree that the summit was a failure. Three years is too long. I'll talk to the admins and see if they're going to do something soon. If not, maybe it's time to dump this sub-forum into the Archives.
by Canton Empire » Sat Aug 22, 2015 11:39 am
Frisbeeteria wrote:Canton Empire wrote:You just can't dump what you've promised to implement.
- Nobody's dumping anything. Moving to the Archives would simply lock all the threads, and we'd go back to bitching about shit in Technical, like we always have.
- There have been no promises to implement any of these specific ideas. This forum was intended to be a basket for discussing ideas, with Admin to pick and choose.
- Canton Empire, you are particularly guilty of the "it's my idea, so it HAS to be great" camp. It gets old real fast. Back off some. Better yet, back off a lot.
by Lockdownn » Sat Aug 22, 2015 12:32 pm
Topid wrote:Frisbeeteria wrote:I mostly agree that the summit was a failure. Three years is too long. I'll talk to the admins and see if they're going to do something soon. If not, maybe it's time to dump this sub-forum into the Archives.
o.O If after years of teasing us with regional officers we do not actually get them I will be very sad. And contrary to what you said above, a huge portion of the regional officers idea wouldn't impact the balance of military gameplay. As a founder I was looking forward to being able to let other people change the WFE, flag, embassies, tags, polls, pinned dispatches, etc. That doesn't change the balance, it just makes regions more interesting and gets more people involved in managing regions. Letting ROs do ejections and passwords would impact the balance, but the rest of the things they could do wouldn't.
The only reason I can see that three years out we do not have ROs that can do at least those things is no one got around to it. It wouldn't hurt anyone, it just gives an option a lot of us would love.
by Canton Empire » Sat Aug 22, 2015 12:43 pm
Lockdownn wrote:Topid wrote:o.O If after years of teasing us with regional officers we do not actually get them I will be very sad. And contrary to what you said above, a huge portion of the regional officers idea wouldn't impact the balance of military gameplay. As a founder I was looking forward to being able to let other people change the WFE, flag, embassies, tags, polls, pinned dispatches, etc. That doesn't change the balance, it just makes regions more interesting and gets more people involved in managing regions. Letting ROs do ejections and passwords would impact the balance, but the rest of the things they could do wouldn't.
The only reason I can see that three years out we do not have ROs that can do at least those things is no one got around to it. It wouldn't hurt anyone, it just gives an option a lot of us would love.
This whole comment sums up my view for the RO option.
Especially for regions with multiple Admins. You wouldn't have a need for a founder account then there'd be no risk of losing it and in turn powers over that region.
by Frisbeeteria » Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:31 pm
Topid wrote:If after years of teasing us with regional officers we do not actually get them I will be very sad.
by Canton Empire » Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:48 pm
Frisbeeteria wrote:Topid wrote:If after years of teasing us with regional officers we do not actually get them I will be very sad.
Just because it's been three years doesn't mean the door is forever closed. I know for a fact that [violet] coded up a version of ROs some time ago, but couldn't get the game balance aspects sorted. The code is still there awaiting inspiration and solutions.
Don't read too much into what I said about archiving this forum. That was Fris, acting entirely on his own without consultation with anyone else on the team. I still think it's a good idea, but I'm just one of 20+ active mods/admins, and I don't have the ability to move a whole subforum in any event.
by Topid » Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:31 pm
Frisbeeteria wrote:Topid wrote:If after years of teasing us with regional officers we do not actually get them I will be very sad.
Just because it's been three years doesn't mean the door is forever closed. I know for a fact that [violet] coded up a version of ROs some time ago, but couldn't get the game balance aspects sorted. The code is still there awaiting inspiration and solutions.
Don't read too much into what I said about archiving this forum. That was Fris, acting entirely on his own without consultation with anyone else on the team. I still think it's a good idea, but I'm just one of 20+ active mods/admins, and I don't have the ability to move a whole subforum in any event.
by Ever-Wandering Souls » Sat Aug 22, 2015 7:34 pm
The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258
Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative
by Sovreignry » Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:17 pm
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:@Guy - The second point, about a not making certain changes for 13 hours (to account for variance) is reasonable, already applied to things like region wide telegrams, something that would kill of tag raiding, but especially if it didn't apply to ejections (say only to embassies, WFE, and flag) would allow large raids to occur still. While I wouldn't support it, and it would majorly change things, it's stomach-able.
No WA admissions during updates hamstrings everyone. It limits your ability to get people online mid-update to response to a mass, and basically kills you ability to stop raids in progress unless everyone keeps a live WA ready 24/7. It also needlessly messes with a large portion of regular players more so than the above does.
Although, I believe this is all needless. Any changes that would be made have, I believe, been noted already.
by Ever-Wandering Souls » Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:30 pm
Sovreignry wrote:Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:@Guy - The second point, about a not making certain changes for 13 hours (to account for variance) is reasonable, already applied to things like region wide telegrams, something that would kill of tag raiding, but especially if it didn't apply to ejections (say only to embassies, WFE, and flag) would allow large raids to occur still. While I wouldn't support it, and it would majorly change things, it's stomach-able.
No WA admissions during updates hamstrings everyone. It limits your ability to get people online mid-update to response to a mass, and basically kills you ability to stop raids in progress unless everyone keeps a live WA ready 24/7. It also needlessly messes with a large portion of regular players more so than the above does.
Although, I believe this is all needless. Any changes that would be made have, I believe, been noted already.
Back in the day I routinely had like, 30 switchers prepped. It's not impossible.
The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258
Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative
by Canton Empire » Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:51 pm
by Land filled with People » Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:41 pm
by Ever-Wandering Souls » Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:44 pm
Land filled with People wrote:How does it affect 'regular' raids at all? Being just the slightest bit organised and bingo, nothing different to now.
The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258
Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative
by Land filled with People » Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:34 pm
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