Tales of Two Horizons OOC-Open

[The Industrial States of Columbia]

a) I meant not in the sense as you're applying it to Sicily and Catalonia.
b) My grandfather immigrated from Southern Italy. I've studied it vastly. If all Catalonian land is formerly Iberian, there is little to no basis for Sicilian claims to the land unless it submits itself as a vassal of Iberia. I doubt at this point that, if Sardinia was never imposed the Italian language by Savoyards in 1760, there is little basis for a de jure claim on Sardinia as a former part of Italy (the last time it being part of that entity some 500 years before the beginning of the RP).
c) I'm not saying that. If the Plantagenets had, let's say, a junior house in Frisia or something, the junior house wouldn't have any right to claim the French throne, or even part of France.

This is all I'm gonna say

Sicily ---claims----> lands you own

do you have an issue with that?

Your claims fabrication was detected!

[Kisinger]

This is all I'm gonna say

Sicily ---claims----> lands you own

do you have an issue with that?

Yes.

I'll halp you Catalonia from Barbarous Italians

[Conwy-Shire]

Yes.

then speak

I'll halp you Catalonia from Barbarous Italians

but I'm not Italian

[Kisinger]

Yes.

The we seem to have no pressing issue, for that is all the application says, albeit in a poor fashion

I'll halp you Catalonia from Barbarous Italians

but I'm not Italian

Nope sorry, your Siclian therefore Italian in the eyes of the Crown, puts you on the same level as Venice, must preserve the Region of Italy, which mustn't be a nation.

But in all seriousness.... Any Italian State becoming stronger in the Eyes of the Monarchy of Hungary is a threat to the Balkan situation...

[Conwy-Shire]

Nope sorry, your Siclian therefore Italian in the eyes of the Crown, puts you on the same level as Venice, must preserve the Region of Italy, which mustn't be a nation.

But in all seriousness.... Any Italian State becoming stronger in the Eyes of the Monarchy of Hungary is a threat to the Balkan situation...

Then I fear after my first post we may become embroiled rivals

[Kryskov]

Yes.

then speak

Is going back a page or two that hard?

[Kisinger]

Nope sorry, your Siclian therefore Italian in the eyes of the Crown, puts you on the same level as Venice, must preserve the Region of Italy, which mustn't be a nation.

But in all seriousness.... Any Italian State becoming stronger in the Eyes of the Monarchy of Hungary is a threat to the Balkan situation...

Then I fear after my first post we may become embroiled rivals

Mhm....

Welp....

FRANCE!
AUSTRIA!
PRUSSIA!
THE BRITS!

[Conwy-Shire]

Welp....

FRANCE!
AUSTRIA!
PRUSSIA!
THE BRITS!

c'mon bby, I just wanna be your ally

[Kisinger]

Welp....

FRANCE!
AUSTRIA!
PRUSSIA!
THE BRITS!

c'mon bby, I just wanna be your ally

Then don't touch muah Balkans!

[Conwy-Shire]

Then don't touch muah Balkans!

but I have claim

how about I take the claim, then offer you half the taxes yearly from there plus the right to exercise a Neapolitan Army Group?

Is going back a page or two that hard?

You're actually gonna make me justify this, aren't you;
seeing as most POD don't go back further than the 15th century (sorry if I'm wrong on that) I'm assuming that the trastamera dynastic conglomerate existed, which owned Spain, Aragon, Sardinia, Sicily, Naples and more - those territories were continually owned by the many various dynasties which ruled Spain at any given point - funnily enough the Bourbons were amongst those dynasties which ruled Spanish territory. Do I need to go on?

[Kisinger]

Then don't touch muah Balkans!

but I have claim

how about I take the claim, then offer you half the taxes yearly from there plus the right to exercise a Neapolitan Army Group?

Sure...

[Alleniana]

stuff

Uh, well, I'm convinced, I just saw "At the beginning of the twentieth century, the fact that Silesians were part of the Polish nation was not questioned." and went with it.

Eh, Schleswig is the Danish speaking part, Holstein is the German speaking part. So there.

That's why Schleswig got partitioned into a German and a danish part, right?

bork

No, well, you said that it depended on how I defined Schleswig and Holstein, so I defined Schleswig as the Danish speaking part

The province, not the duchy of Luxembourg, which is French speaking through and through (well, maybe a bit Luxembourgish speaking, but that's dying)

Obviously it's not the duchy.
Now, in the grand duchy there's this:

Upon the founding of the country, French enjoyed the greatest prestige, and therefore gained preferential use as the official and administrative language. German was used in the political field to comment on the laws and the ordinances in order to make them comprehensible to everyone. At the primary-school level, teaching was limited to German, while French was taught in secondary education. The law of July 26, 1843, reinforced bilingualism by introducing the teaching of French in primary school.

There's also this:

At the time of the Belgian Revolution of 1830–1839, and by the 1839 Treaty establishing full independence, Luxembourg's territory was reduced by more than half, as the predominantly francophone western part of the country was transferred to Belgium.

Considering the areas speaking french were split off, I'd assume what remained did not speak french..... seem reasonable?

These are all referring to the Grand Duchy which I said I'd annex...

stuff

*bangs head*
evtyghin is muddle ;_;
I made a response but it got endlessly tied up in itself, so delete 'tis.
Can you TG me your email? I'll start a google spreadsheet. I don't remember a lot of what I did and I'm a bit lost.
Though, I think you forgot Posen, and I still don't know why you didn't use http://populstat.info/Europe/austriac.htm and http://populstat.info/Europe/czechrpc.htm

http://populstat.info/Europe/germanyc.htm 28,237,000 for the German Empire in 1834 - for 1835, let's assume 28.5mil
Areas with populations of Germans outside the German Empire are Austria, Liechtenstein, Bohemia (let's say ~1/3, rounded down), Switzerland, Luxembourg and those tiny dots scattered around Europe (probably less than IRL due to no Austrians in Hungary, but still probably kind of present) [I'm not sure if the German Empire figure includes Alsace-Lorraine or not, I assume it does, but anyway, the difference couldn't be more than a million)
Areas with populations of non-Germans inside the German Empire are Posen/Poznan, Silesia (I don't know as much as you do, I'll put it at 1/2 for now because it's in the middle and I have no idea), and Schleswig-Holstein
So, going through our German Empire-based shopping list

+ + +
http://populstat.info/Europe/luxembgc.htm 175,200 for Grand Duchy of Luxembourg in 1839 - for 1835, let's assume negligible
http://populstat.info/Europe/austriac.htm 3,476,500 for 1830, 3,649,700 for 1840 for modern Austria - for 1835, let's assume 3.5mil (yes yes South Tirol is missing but shush, assume negligible; it's only just 500k today)
http://populstat.info/Europe/czechrpc.htm 6,340,800 for 1840 - for 1835, let's assume 6mil, multiplied by 1/3 for German population = 2mil
I'm just going to assume Liechtenstein is negligible
http://populstat.info/Europe/switzerc.htm 2,188,000 for Switzerland in 1838, taking off the handful of non-German cantons, it's about 1.5mil (you can see the calculations I did for it in my app)
Tiny dots scattered around Europe... eh, let's use them as an excuse to round up

- - -
http://populstat.info/Europe/germanyr.htm 1,233,900 for Posen in 1841 - for 1835, let's assume 1mil
http://populstat.info/Europe/germanyr.htm 2,858,800 for Prussian Silesia in 1841 - for 1835, 1.5mil?
http://populstat.info/Europe/germanyr.htm 803,600 for Schleswig-Holstein in 1841 - for 1835, let's assume 0.5mil (rounded down because Danes in the north)

So this leaves us with
28.5+3.5+2+1.5-1-1.5-0.5+0.5 (for South Tyrol, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg and tiny dots scattered around Europe)
=33, kurwa

though, I might have meant that the population of germans outside P and B is greater than either one, which could still be borderline potentially true
"the population of Germans in Germany minus Prussia and Austrobavaria is more than in those two"
I frankly don't remember, it's what I get for sleeping for not sleeping before 12:30 am for 6 weeks in a row

A) Civil war about federalism won by centralists, also Napoleon and the non-neutrality of Switzerland afterwards
B) Not precisely, but definitely a bit strange, what with republicanism and democracy
C) The world will learn of our ways of peace... by force, if necessary! Switzerland isn't neutralising, it's preserved its old aggressive streak
D) That's OOC, I want to watch the world burn

A) Y'know that at least historically Switzerland wasn't even a confederation until '47, IIRC.
B) Sure.
C) Mhm.
D) Let me explain.
---------Me joking about Swiss being the most orderly of all possible germans ------->
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.
.
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--------------Your head------------------------------------------------------------------------>

You did make me re-read this example, though, so thanks.

A) Hm? Is there a subtle difference between Confederacy and Confederation?
D) True, MFS

no sense is catalonia sicily claim, too many seazones

[Conwy-Shire]

Sure...

those ellipsis look ominous, so does the "sure" - in fact that whole post reeked of ominous feeling , though I would be happy if it wasn't ominous, yes/no?

[Kryskov]

You're actually gonna make me justify this, aren't you;
seeing as most POD don't go back further than the 15th century (sorry if I'm wrong on that) I'm assuming that the trastamera dynastic conglomerate existed, which owned Spain, Aragon, Sardinia, Sicily, Naples and more - those territories were continually owned by the many various dynasties which ruled Spain at any given point - funnily enough the Bourbons were amongst those dynasties which ruled Spanish territory. Do I need to go on?

You don't seem to grasp that I already know this and understand. The problem is that you're claiming that a junior branch of a family can inherit a claim when the senior branch is still alive and kicking without some sort of agreement. I understand how dynasties work (for the third time), but you do not.

[The imperial canadian dutchy]

You're actually gonna make me justify this, aren't you;
seeing as most POD don't go back further than the 15th century (sorry if I'm wrong on that) I'm assuming that the trastamera dynastic conglomerate existed, which owned Spain, Aragon, Sardinia, Sicily, Naples and more - those territories were continually owned by the many various dynasties which ruled Spain at any given point - funnily enough the Bourbons were amongst those dynasties which ruled Spanish territory. Do I need to go on?

You don't seem to grasp that I already know this and understand. The problem is that you're claiming that a junior branch of a family can inherit a claim when the senior branch is still alive and kicking without some sort of agreement. I understand how dynasties work (for the third time), but you do not.

The Orleanists claim the throne of France, The Legitimistes are still alive and claim the throne themselves.

[Kisinger]

Sure...

those ellipsis look ominous, so does the "sure" - in fact that whole post reeked of ominous feeling , though I would be happy if it wasn't ominous, yes/no?

I'll see how favourable the Agreement looks once I keep the Serbians ass in a War hopefully....

[The imperial canadian dutchy]

Hungars gibe back Dalmazia and Ragussa plz

[Kisinger]

Hungars gibe back Dalmazia and Ragussa plz

Over my dead body

[Kryskov]

The Orleanists claim the throne of France, The Legitimistes are still alive and claim the throne themselves.

Apples and oranges. The Orleanists had to have a violent revolution to overthrow the Bourbons and obtain a serious claim. That is neither applicable nor likely in the Iberia-Sicilies situation.

[The imperial canadian dutchy]

The Orleanists claim the throne of France, The Legitimistes are still alive and claim the throne themselves.

Apples and oranges. The Orleanists had to have a violent revolution to overthrow the Bourbons and obtain a serious claim. That is neither applicable nor likely in the Iberia-Sicilies situation.

Carlists and Alfonists

[Conwy-Shire]

You don't seem to grasp that I already know this and understand. The problem is that you're claiming that a junior branch of a family can inherit a claim when the senior branch is still alive and kicking without some sort of agreement. I understand how dynasties work (for the third time), but you do not.

You don't seem to understand what a claim is

[Kryskov]

Apples and oranges. The Orleanists had to have a violent revolution to overthrow the Bourbons and obtain a serious claim. That is neither applicable nor likely in the Iberia-Sicilies situation.

Carlists and Alfonists

Both factions claimed they were the senior line, whereas here one is clearly junior. Apples and oranges.

[The imperial canadian dutchy]

Carlists and Alfonists

Both factions claimed they were the senior line, whereas here one is clearly junior. Apples and oranges.

Maybe true, but who the hell cares, their claims make sense WITHOUT dynastic shit, it's called taking more of Africa and securing the islands

[Alleniana]

Carlists and Alfonists

Both factions claimed they were the senior line, whereas here one is clearly junior. Apples and oranges.

both fruits
sorry

Again, regarding Austrobav, what are people calling it? I would have imagined that it would mostly be known as Bavaria, since it's a kingdom, which is more senior than Austria, an archduchy. It'd be like the Dukes of Normandy preferring to be called dukes rather than Kings of England (well, and Aquitaine and those other places)

[Kryskov]

You don't seem to grasp that I already know this and understand. The problem is that you're claiming that a junior branch of a family can inherit a claim when the senior branch is still alive and kicking without some sort of agreement. I understand how dynasties work (for the third time), but you do not.

You don't seem to understand what a claim is

You don't seem to understand what an equivocation fallacy is.