I would like a more detailed reasonin for this, or else I will just believe you know shit about Russia.
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by Finland SSR » Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:57 am
by Elepis » Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:58 am
The Industrial States of Columbia wrote:Conwy-shire wrote:Application
Name: The Kingdom of the Two Sicilies
Symbols: Black Eagle - displayed; Denser Semy Fleur de Lis - a label Gules
Claims: Nation 37, claims most of the Kingdom of Valencia and the Catalans by Bourbon succession, also claims Spain by the same descent. Claims the Temporal lands of the Papal States
Power: toes the line between tertiary and secondary powers, can project sizeable power within the Mediterranean Sea.
Government Structure: Absolute Monarchy, though liberal reforms are on the horizon
Ideology/Policy: Expansionist pressure, Internal Development (Industrialization)
Leaders: Ferdinand II de Bourbon
Capital City: Napoli
Population: 8,014,819 (wikipedia est.)
Primary Ethnic Group: Neapolitan
Minority Ethnic Groups: Sicilian, various north African
Description of Ethnicity: Italian-Dalmatian hybrid
Language: Neapolitan
Religion: Roman Catholic/secular in Italian territories - Sunni Muslims inhabit the inland areas of the African posessions
Foreign Relations:
- dynastic relations to Spain (friends)
- Ferdinand II is married to a daughter of the house of Savoie - Piedmonte (marital alliance)
- the Papal States owns a great amount of Neapolitan land (resentment)
- neutral to the Balkan states ("meh")
- ambivalent to Non-Italian Europe (opinion.exe failed to launch)
- cautious towards other Italian states (proximity = threat)
- no concrete alliances (So lonely)
- residual defensive alliance with Britain after the Defence of Sicily (Likes Brits)
Military Information: Whilst the Two Sicilies are not known for technological advancement, the state procured a lucrative deal with the English to strengthen the Italian front against Napoleonic France. Due to this, the Baker Rifle became the standard issue rifle (for rifle regiments) and Domestic production rights were soon purchased at sizeable cost to the state.
Standard infantry regiments use a local musket variant similar to the "Long Land Musket". Standing soldier quality is slightly above par, with irregular units boasting regionally acclaimed marksmanship aided by the Neapolitan variant Baker Rifle.
The Neapolitan Navy is not blue-water operational, but does operate in a green-water capacity - this allows it to project suitable power inside the Mediterranean theatre.
Army Size:
~62,000 professional standing soldiers; able to conscript the same number under duress
Navy Size:
34 rated ships
50 unrated support ships
various merchantmen
~8,000 personnel over all boards, marines and miscellaneous - press gangs comparable to that of the British RN operate on a smaller scale towards a similar goal.
Economic Policy: TAX ANYTHING THAT MOVES... and trade, heavily focused on the cultivation, supply and processing of agricultural goods
Economic Situation: incredibly agricultural (ie. backward) - Apparently had 65% of Italy's golden livres (according to the 24th PM of Italy), Industry is seeing city-growth, especially typified in the Lazzaroni class of Naples, there is widespread poverty in the hills and hinterlands, although if measured against the serfs of other countries (all of the citizens of the Two Sicilies are nominally free citizens... what a joke) they would be quite well-off
Infrastructure: OTL no railroads, TTL there is a single railroad connecting Naples to Reggio-Calabria - Naples houses many academic centres technically open to all but restricted by tuition fees. Industrial output is on a steady rise but not fast-growing. Cities, large towns and major roads are paved after some fashion, changing from region to region.
Imports & Exports:
Imports luxury goods, standard trade composites
exports agricultural goods, viticultural goods, textiles
Currency: Ducat (Two Sicilies)
History: POD 1615
- 1615: dissatisfied with the closeness of the Knights Hospitillar to the French, along with continued failure to conform to their ecclesiastical ideals, the king of spain revokes the Monastic Order's grant of land, seizing the island of Malta and the lands around Tripoli before incorporating them into the Sicilian Crown territories
- 1615-1815: little deviation from OTL
- 1815: Joachim Murat is deposed by popular support and British Intervention
- 1816: Ferdinand I is restored to the Throne and merges the kingdoms of Sicily and Naples into the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies
- 1816: Without influence from Austria, Ferdinand I is not forced to remain absolutist, rather turning to enlightened despotism
- 1825: after the uneventful reign of Ferdinand I, Francis I ascends to the throne
- 1827: Economic Reforms focused on standardisation across the two kingdoms comes into effect
- 1828: The first railroad in Italy is constructed between Naples and Reggio-Calabria, the latter of which becomes the staging grounds of the Sicilian Army
- 1830: Francis I dies, Ferdinand II ascends to the throne, delivers the ascension address promising liberal reforms
- 1832: Administrative districts are established, issuing legal doctrines such as the Rule of Law, Procedural Justice and other forms of equity
- Late 1834: An advisory chamber of deputies is set up, with elections due for early 1835 (male suffrage ayy)
Miscellaneous: Why does this exist?
RP Example: Must I really?
429
Technically Done
Accepted, though the railway line still makes me a little nervous
@ Elepsis, Accepted, you did bring it down to 12 mil though?
by The Industrial States of Columbia » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:06 am
by Finland SSR » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:16 am
The Industrial States of Columbia wrote:-Second, from previous pages, the only reason you were aiming to play Russia was to force its collapse for nefarious purposes.
The Industrial States of Columbia wrote:-Third, though you neglected to provide an rp sample (I requested one from you I beleive in my initial response to your app), I did look at some of the rps you have been in, you don't quite rp in the style that I would believe necissary for the Rus.
The Industrial States of Columbia wrote:-Fourth, certain messages between you and myself via tg won't help your case
by Altito Asmoro » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:18 am
by The Industrial States of Columbia » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:18 am
Finland SSR wrote:The Industrial States of Columbia wrote:-Second, from previous pages, the only reason you were aiming to play Russia was to force its collapse for nefarious purposes.
No.
And even then, it should have zero influence on whether or not my app is good or not.The Industrial States of Columbia wrote:-Third, though you neglected to provide an rp sample (I requested one from you I beleive in my initial response to your app), I did look at some of the rps you have been in, you don't quite rp in the style that I would believe necissary for the Rus.
You didn't look far, it seems.The Industrial States of Columbia wrote:-Fourth, certain messages between you and myself via tg won't help your case
bitch do I look like someone who would give a damn?
Well, overall, this doesn't look like a RP I want to be in anyway. Why do I even bother with the 19th century genre? It's going to die and I don't want to help it live even a second longer.
by Caltarania » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:20 am
Reservation
Name of the State: Kingdom of Hellas
Area to be reserved: 41
Code: 635
by The Industrial States of Columbia » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:21 am
Caltarania wrote:If it's not too great a hassle, I'd like to switch my reservation from Japan to Hellas.Reservation
Name of the State: Kingdom of Hellas
Area to be reserved: 41
Code: 635
by Altito Asmoro » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:22 am
Caltarania wrote:If it's not too great a hassle, I'd like to switch my reservation from Japan to Hellas.Reservation
Name of the State: Kingdom of Hellas
Area to be reserved: 41
Code: 635
by Caltarania » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:58 am
Application
Name: Kingdom of Hellas | Βασίλειον τῆς Ἑλλάδος | Vasílion tis Elládos
Symbols: Flag, Coat of Arms, Motto, Anthem
Claims: 41; Lays claim to Crete, the Aegean Islands, Cyprus, Epirus, Thrace, Constantinople, Western Anatolia and other areas with Greek populations.
Power: Regional power. Hellas is only really relevant in the Balkan region.
Government Structure: Absolute monarchy
Ideology/Policy: Greek nationalism, Conservatism, Megali Idea
Leaders: Queen Alexandrine of Hohenzollern | Prime Minister Spyridon Trikoupis
Capital City: Athens
Population: 3,000,000
Primary Ethnic Group: Greek
Minority Ethnic Groups: Jews, Bulgarians, Romani, Turks
Description of Ethnicity: The Greeks are a proud people who speak the Greek language. Having founded many modern western values, the people of Hellas pride themselves on their artistic and philosophical history.
Language: Greek
Religion: Orthodox Christianity
Foreign Relations:
Friendly:Cordial:
- Prussia, due to the shared dynasty.
- Mamelukes, due to the shared enemy in Anatolia.
- Hungary, due to shared Balkan enemies.
Neutral:
- Britain and France, due to support in the Second Independence War.
- Russia, due to religion and shared animosity towards the Turks.
Tense:
- Bulgaria and Serbia.
- Naples, the Papacy, Milan, Florence.
- Most other states.
Hostile:
- Epirus, due to conflicting claims.
Military Information: Due to the country's small population and precarious position, the Greek military has had to take unconventional approaches to the defence of the country. Hellas has a small professional military force (known as the Σπαρτιατικού Στρατός / Spartiatikoú Stratós or 'Spartan Army') of around 300 personnel, whom are extremely well trained and equipped with modern Prussian weaponry due to the good relations between the two countries. These troops are led by officers who have been drilled by Prussian professionals, further increasing their quality. There are also about 30,000 Greeks who serve in the more conventional army, which is known as Ελληνική Δωρεάν Στρατού / Ellinikí Doreán Stratoú, or the 'Greek Free Army'. These troops are less well trained and are equipped with older Prussian equipment, though are battle hardened and led by Prussian-trained officers. Furthermore, there is the 150,000 strong reserve army (Στρατός του Αποθεματικά / Stratós tou Apothematiká, 'Army of Reserves'), which can be called up at any time of emergency and are equipped with weaponry in order to fight any potential invaders. The Greek navy is mostly made up of non-military ships which can be called into service at any time, though there are a growing number of ships built purely for military purposes. Hellas has one ship of the line, gifted to the Queen personally by Britain after the Second Independence War, and it is known as the Aristotle.
- Sultanate of Rum, due to conflicting claims and hostile history.
- Venice, due to the perceived unjust occupation of Crete and the Aegean islands.
Army Size:
Σπαρτιατικού Στρατός | Spartiatikoú Stratós | Spartan Army: 300
Ελληνική Δωρεάν Στρατού | Ellinikí Doreán Stratoú | Greek Free Army: 30,000
Στρατός του Αποθεματικά | Stratós tou Apothematiká | Army of Reserves: 150,000
Navy Size:
Ελληνικό Πολεμικό Ναυτικό | Ellinikó Polemikó Naftikó | Greek Navy: 1 SotL (94 gunner), 4 Frigates, 2 Sloops, 20 Galleys
Economic Policy: Mostly free trade, with some mercantilism present. Industrialization has begun to be attempted.
Economic Situation: The Greek economy is mostly agriculture and wine based, though there are a growing number of factories in the country which have been built through investment from Prussia, Britain and the other powers.
Infrastructure: Railways are rare. The country is connected through a mostly efficient roadway system.
Imports & Exports: Imports most industrial goods, military equipment and raw materials. Exports wine, agricultural produce and other non-industrial goods.
Currency: Greek drachma (₯)
History: 1453 - Constantinople falls to the Turkish hordes.
1454 - Constantinople is reconquered by an alliance of Balkan states, Venetians and the Morean League.
1455 - Bickering between the victorious factions leads to an indecisive end to the war.
1459 - The short-lived Morean League breaks down, and the various members go their separate ways.
1520 - The divided Greek states come under attack from the Sultanate of Rum.
1524 - The Last independent Greek state - the Kingdom of Athens - is conquered by the Sultanate of Rum.
1590 - Under Turkish control, Greece undergoes a period of change. Turkish immigrants arrive to settle Greece, creating tensions with the locals.
1612 - Hopeful after the successful Hungarian war against the Turks, the First Independence War begins, with the Greeks taking up arms against the Turks.
1614 - After a long, drawn out and bloody struggle, the First Independence War ends in failure.
1751 - With the successful Mamluke invasion of Rum, the Sultanate founds the Free Greek Corps; several autonomous regiments within the Sultanate's army. These new regiments serve with great distinction during many of the Sultanate's wars, and are greatly revered as heroes of the Sultanate.
1827 - The Free Greek Corps, along with several other Greek rebels, lead a rebellion against the Sultanate of Rum, which would come to be known as the Second Independence War.
1828 - In dire need of aid, the Greek rebels ask their Christian kin in Europe for help against the Turks. Prussia agrees to arm the rebels, with Britain and France agreeing to provide tactic and diplomatic backing to the rebels and their new state.
1829 - The Sultanate of Rum admits defeat, and the Treaty of Budapest is signed. The treaty established the Kingdom of Greece as a sovereign state, granting it much of the majority Greek territory in the Sultanate, though the full extent of the rebel's demands were not met. In exchange for their support during the war, Prussia requested to have a Hohenzollern take the throne of the new kingdom, and so King Frederick's daughter - Princess Alexandrine - took the throne, aged only 26. The new Kingdom signed a treaty of alliance with the Kingdom of Prussia, and promised to protect British and French interests in both the Balkans and the Near East.
Miscellaneous: nah
RP Example: S'll this do?
429
by Alleniana » Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:03 am
Posen more obviously so. Schleswig is Danish populated,
No disagreements here. I do recall you also offering Holstein, though, and depending on how you define Schleswig it likely is German in large parts (or even in a majority?).
Belgium only has a very small German minority so the rest is fine to give away,
Luxembourg though, does not, and you mentioned giving away potential german claims to it.
yiss
You have a direct interest in Austrobav and me being more equal. Your bias is bad and you should feel bad
True, hmm. Perhaps some little city-states or Napoleonic scraps someone forgot to clean up?
Citystate republics I know of that exist here:Of those at least the last three weren't (historically) too democratic and sided with Prussia in '66 while Frankfurt remained Confederate and am unsure of how democratic it was or was not.
- Frankfurt
- Hamburg
- Lübeck
- Bremen
That being said, none of them had significant military forces and probably would just have to side with the power that is the closest to them in order to not be annexed (See also, Frankfurt after 1866)
As for Napoleonic scraps.... it seems they cleaned away the Hohenzollerns and Neuchatel and a few Italians probably, so I guess not.
I'm pretty sure the populstat number doesn't include Austria and stuff,
True, true, I didn't consider that.if it's doing modern Germany, and certainly I can't imagine it includes Prussia outside the German Confederation.
Borders are German Empire, so no and yes, respectively.Wikipedia gives 29 million for GC in 1815, populstat gives considerably lower (23 mil ish), so I'd assume that at present, the population is higher.
May I ask where you found that number on populstat?
I found mine on the Germany page for the whole country, and in the notes it mentions it applying to the Imperial borders, so it should only lack Luxembourg, Switzerland, and Austro-Bohemia.
Also, that number is for 1837, so for the areas in question it might be a bit more useful.Also, Switzerland wouldn't have been included.
I did not consider that, true.I think a decent way is extrapolating the Wikipedia figure; whatever Germany populstat is measuring, it grew by about a third up til 1835, so if we take Wikipedia's 29 mil and increase it by a third, we get about 39 mil. Add on Switzerland proper and Prussia outside the confed, surely we've hit something up around 45 mil? I think 45 mil is a good number to use here.
We could alternatively check if there are numbers for Austria proper and Bohemia, for Luxembourg, and for the relevant swiss cantons for 1835-7.
1,409,600 + 857,600 + 187,500 + 447,100 + 380,500 + 839,800 + 4,174,200 + 2,166,600 = 10,462,900
Numbers are, respectively, Niederösterreich, Oberösterreich, Graz,Bruck, roughly half of Kärnten as it also includes the Krain, Tirol-Vorarlberg, Bohemia, Moravia-Silesia - as the Austrian subtotal.
Which actually means that the Austro-Bav pop has no way of being 10 million.
I probably should re-check my pop.... I'll have to count the millions of Prussian provinces later, for now Prussia supposedly has 15m in 1840 according to wikipedia.
7,300 + 175,200 + (2,188,000 - 58,600 - 183,600 + 58,700 - 63,200) = 2,123,800
Lichtenstein, Luxembourg, (Switzerland, Neuchatel, Vaud, Geneva, Solothurn) = Subtotal of relevant Switzerland and other areas.
In the grand total we have the German states ruling about 42,3 million people.
Let's give Prussia a conservative estimate and and say 13. Austria alone is 10, meaning that we have 23, Austria has Bavaria and some other lands not included, Prussia might be slightly higher as well.
So yes, your original claim of more than half of the German population being not in the big-two is still false.
Census'd.
A centralised, radical, militant Switzerland
A) Centralized?
B) Radical?
C) Militant?
D) Let me ask what you did not answer, chaos?
Finland SSR wrote:The Industrial States of Columbia wrote:-Second, from previous pages, the only reason you were aiming to play Russia was to force its collapse for nefarious purposes.
No.
And even then, it should have zero influence on whether or not my app is good or not.The Industrial States of Columbia wrote:-Third, though you neglected to provide an rp sample (I requested one from you I beleive in my initial response to your app), I did look at some of the rps you have been in, you don't quite rp in the style that I would believe necissary for the Rus.
You didn't look far, it seems.The Industrial States of Columbia wrote:-Fourth, certain messages between you and myself via tg won't help your case
bitch do I look like someone who would give a damn?
Well, overall, this doesn't look like a RP I want to be in anyway. Why do I even bother with the 19th century genre? It's going to die and I don't want to help it live even a second longer.
by The Greater Dutch Republic » Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:44 am
by Caltarania » Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:52 am
by Elepis » Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:56 am
Caltarania wrote:Application
Name: Kingdom of Hellas | Βασίλειον τῆς Ἑλλάδος | Vasílion tis Elládos
Symbols: Flag, Coat of Arms, Motto, Anthem
Claims: 41; Lays claim to Crete, the Aegean Islands, Cyprus, Epirus, Thrace, Constantinople, Western Anatolia and other areas with Greek populations.
Power: Regional power. Hellas is only really relevant in the Balkan region.
Government Structure: Absolute monarchy
Ideology/Policy: Greek nationalism, Conservatism, Megali Idea
Leaders: Queen Alexandrine of Hohenzollern | Prime Minister Spyridon Trikoupis
Capital City: Athens
Population: 753,400
Primary Ethnic Group: Greek
Minority Ethnic Groups: Jews, Bulgarians, Romani, Turks
Description of Ethnicity: The Greeks are a proud people who speak the Greek language. Having founded many modern western values, the people of Hellas pride themselves on their artistic and philosophical history.
Language: Greek
Religion: Orthodox Christianity
Foreign Relations:
Friendly:Cordial:
- Prussia, due to the shared dynasty.
- Mamelukes, due to the shared enemy in Anatolia.
- Hungary, due to shared Balkan enemies.
Neutral:
- Britain and France, due to support in the Second Independence War.
- Russia, due to religion and shared animosity towards the Turks.
Tense:
- Bulgaria and Serbia.
- Naples, the Papacy, Milan, Florence.
- Most other states.
Hostile:
- Epirus, due to conflicting claims.
Military Information: Due to the country's small population and precarious position, the Greek military has had to take unconventional approaches to the defence of the country. Hellas has a small professional military force (known as the Σπαρτιατικού Στρατός / Spartiatikoú Stratós or 'Spartan Army') of around 300 personnel, whom are extremely well trained and equipped with modern Prussian weaponry due to the good relations between the two countries. These troops are led by officers who have been drilled by Prussian professionals, further increasing their quality. There are also about 8,000 Greeks who serve in the more conventional army, which is known as Ελληνική Δωρεάν Στρατού / Ellinikí Doreán Stratoú, or the 'Greek Free Army'. These troops are less well trained are equipped with older Prussian equipment, though are battle hardened and led by Prussian-trained officers. Furthermore, there is the 35,000 strong reserve army (Στρατός του Αποθεματικά / Stratós tou Apothematiká, 'Army of Reserves'), which can be called up at any time of emergency and are equipped with weaponry in order to fight any potential invaders. The Greek navy is mostly made up of non-military ships which can be called into service at any time, though there are a growing number of ships built purely for military purposes. Hellas has one ship of the line, gifted to the Queen purposely by Britain after the Second Independence War, and it is known as the Aristotle.
- Sultanate of Rum, due to conflicting claims and hostile history.
- Venice, due to the perceived unjust occupation of Crete and the Aegean islands.
Army Size:
Σπαρτιατικού Στρατός | Spartiatikoú Stratós | Spartan Army: 300
Ελληνική Δωρεάν Στρατού | Ellinikí Doreán Stratoú | Greek Free Army: 8,000
Στρατός του Αποθεματικά | Stratós tou Apothematiká | Army of Reserves: 35,000
Navy Size:
Ελληνικό Πολεμικό Ναυτικό | Ellinikó Polemikó Naftikó | Greek Navy: 1 SotL (94 gunner), 4 Frigates, 2 Sloops, 20 Galleys
Economic Policy: Mostly free trade, with some mercantilism present. Industrialization has begun to be attempted.
Economic Situation: The Greek economy is mostly agriculture and wine based, though there are a growing number of factories in the country which have been built through investment from Prussia, Britain and the other powers.
Infrastructure: Railways are rare. The country is connected through a mostly efficient roadway system.
Imports & Exports: Imports most industrial goods, military equipment and raw materials. Exports wine, agricultural produce and other non-industrial goods.
Currency: Greek drachma (₯)
History: 1453 - Constantinople falls to the Turkish hordes.
1454 - Constantinople is reconquered by an alliance of Balkan states, Venetians and the Morean League.
1455 - Bickering between the victorious factions leads to an indecisive end to the war.
1459 - The short-lived Morean League breaks down, and the various members go their separate ways.
1520 - The divided Greek states come under attack from the Sultanate of Rum.
1524 - The Last independent Greek state - the Kingdom of Athens - is conquered by the Sultanate of Rum.
1590 - Under Turkish control, Greece undergoes a period of change. Turkish immigrants arrive to settle Greece, creating tensions with the locals.
1612 - Hopeful after the successful Hungarian war against the Turks, the First Independence War begins, with the Greeks taking up arms against the Turks.
1614 - After a long, drawn out and bloody struggle, the First Independence War ends in failure.
1751 - With the successful Mamluke invasion of Rum, the Sultanate founds the Free Greek Corps; several autonomous regiments within the Sultanate's army. These new regiments serve with great distinction during many of the Sultanate's wars, and are greatly revered as heroes of the Sultanate.
1827 - The Free Greek Corps, along with several other Greek rebels, lead a rebellion against the Sultanate of Rum, which would come to be known as the Second Independence War.
1828 - In dire need of aid, the Greek rebels ask their Christian kin in Europe for help against the Turks. Prussia agrees to arm the rebels, with Britain and France agreeing to provide tactic and diplomatic backing to the rebels and their new state.
1829 - The Sultanate of Rum admits defeat, and the Treaty of Budapest is signed. The treaty established the Kingdom of Greece as a sovereign state, granting it much of the majority Greek territory in the Sultanate, though the full extent of the rebel's demands were not met. In exchange for their support during the war, Prussia requested to have a Hohenzollern take the throne of the new kingdom, and so King Frederick's daughter - Princess Alexandrine - took the throne, aged only 26. The new Kingdom signed a treaty of alliance with the Kingdom of Prussia, and promised to protect British and French interests in both the Balkans and the Near East.
Miscellaneous: nah
RP Example: S'll this do?
429
by Caltarania » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:02 am
by Elepis » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:06 am
Caltarania wrote:@Elepis; We could probably avoid that by the fact that the Greek rebels likely committed numerous atrocities against Muslims in Greece, which would probably dissuade the Mamlukes from associating with the rebels. If you really feel it necessary to support the rebels, then I can add it in, though any sort of direct military action would probably be met with annoyance by Britain and France.
by Das Germane imperie » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:08 am
by Caltarania » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:12 am
Elepis wrote:Caltarania wrote:@Elepis; We could probably avoid that by the fact that the Greek rebels likely committed numerous atrocities against Muslims in Greece, which would probably dissuade the Mamlukes from associating with the rebels. If you really feel it necessary to support the rebels, then I can add it in, though any sort of direct military action would probably be met with annoyance by Britain and France.
Good point, a Caliph wouldn't like that.
Egypt was with Greece in spirit then
by Altito Asmoro » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:22 am
by Liecthenbourg » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:24 am
Altito Asmoro wrote:Netherlands, gib australia plox.
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