1850 : Alternative Divergence [AH][OOC][CLOSED]

[Tracian Empire]

butbut...i can into colonies?

Glorious Roman Empire (and friend ) shall have all the Africas.

Of course. The glorious Roman Empire and the glorious Principality of Taurica will take control over the entire Africa, and bring the natives to civilization. Roma Invicta!

[Oscalantine]

Is the UK and Ireland available? I see it shaded on the map, but not labelled.

It is... but for all its worth, the person reserving it hasn't responded to my comments after I have said that he needs to improve everything in the app.

Hmmm... I am seriously considering sending msg to all reserve folks to remind them of their apps. It is probably just history part that is getting to them, but not hearing from them in OOC is frighteningly scary T^T

[New Granadeseret]

FYI the bit above Muslim Spain is Asturias, not Castille.

Amazing. Indeed, I have A LOT more stuff to learn.

Yes, but whatever is the case, due to Iberian Peninsula not being Catholic Kingdom, Spain would not have formed. If it did, it would be a declaration from a single party, not from unifying several factions into one kingdom.

... whichever is the case, I am expecting this kind of story. Plus, when entire military section was dedicated as anti-Andalusia junk, I cannot approve of this... it is too focused on one goal that afterwards the RP would get incredibly boring for the person owning the app.

There was no Portugal, there will never be a Portugal, as that culture effectively never had a chance to divert from it's Proto-Hispanic and Visogothic roots in any respectable number. Considering my history goes back before formation, and Portugal's existence could completely derail my pattern, I will use my Guidance if nessicery to insure that or counter any statement to the contrary.

[Oscalantine]

Amazing. Indeed, I have A LOT more stuff to learn.

Yes, but whatever is the case, due to Iberian Peninsula not being Catholic Kingdom, Spain would not have formed. If it did, it would be a declaration from a single party, not from unifying several factions into one kingdom.

... whichever is the case, I am expecting this kind of story. Plus, when entire military section was dedicated as anti-Andalusia junk, I cannot approve of this... it is too focused on one goal that afterwards the RP would get incredibly boring for the person owning the app.

There was no Portugal, there will never be a Portugal, as that culture effectively never had a chance to divert from it's Proto-Hispanic and Visogothic roots in any respectable number. Considering my history goes back before formation, and Portugal's existence could completely derail my pattern, I will use my Guidance if nessicery to insure that or counter any statement to the contrary.

It is all well said and done. I understand that a lot of things would have changed. However... for the sake of the apps, I am still allowing Brazilian Empire to exist. For all its worth, Portugal people, if not the kingdom of, existed. And since Catholicism existed somewhat before as well, there are points to be made that somehow the Portugal people managed to escape into the new world away from Islamic oppression in the peninsula.

Feel free to use Guidance if you so wish. However, my stands on Brazilian Empire is final. Especially since he is so close to app being accepted, I feel like it would be punishing Quendi when he has done so much already. However, future apps incoming will HAVE to follow your Guidance, so there won't be Spain or anything of sort in the future... should you use your Guidance.

[Oscalantine]

Oh and for all you folks who are waiting for next update... *coughRomanEmpriecough* ... I am taking a break for tonight. Main reasoning is that I will NEVER be able to finish my own app if I continue, and I want to RP with you guys when you all start.

That being said, if your app is accepted, PLEASE feel free to start in the IC. If you are not, TG is actually easier than finding me on the thread. I tend to check TG first, so go ahead and say that your app is ready for view with the page number, and I'll jump in and approve it at soonest possibility.

[New Granadeseret]

There was no Portugal, there will never be a Portugal, as that culture effectively never had a chance to divert from it's Proto-Hispanic and Visogothic roots in any respectable number. Considering my history goes back before formation, and Portugal's existence could completely derail my pattern, I will use my Guidance if nessicery to insure that or counter any statement to the contrary.

It is all well said and done. I understand that a lot of things would have changed. However... for the sake of the apps, I am still allowing Brazilian Empire to exist. For all its worth, Portugal people, if not the kingdom of, existed. And since Catholicism existed somewhat before as well, there are points to be made that somehow the Portugal people managed to escape into the new world away from Islamic oppression in the peninsula.

Feel free to use Guidance if you so wish. However, my stands on Brazilian Empire is final. Especially since he is so close to app being accepted, I feel like it would be punishing Quendi when he has done so much already. However, future apps incoming will HAVE to follow your Guidance, so there won't be Spain or anything of sort in the future... should you use your Guidance.

Fine.... guess I'll have to retrofit my history then. We've already got a rag-tag bunch of Panamanian Scots managing to show us the middle finger, I can take more.

[Oscalantine]

It is all well said and done. I understand that a lot of things would have changed. However... for the sake of the apps, I am still allowing Brazilian Empire to exist. For all its worth, Portugal people, if not the kingdom of, existed. And since Catholicism existed somewhat before as well, there are points to be made that somehow the Portugal people managed to escape into the new world away from Islamic oppression in the peninsula.

Feel free to use Guidance if you so wish. However, my stands on Brazilian Empire is final. Especially since he is so close to app being accepted, I feel like it would be punishing Quendi when he has done so much already. However, future apps incoming will HAVE to follow your Guidance, so there won't be Spain or anything of sort in the future... should you use your Guidance.

Fine.... guess I'll have to retrofit my history then.

thanks for understanding ^^ Quendi is very devoted to this RP, and I want to protect his app if I can help it.

However, for the future apps, I'll let them know that they cannot have Spain/Portugal influence. I'll let them know of your existence and will tell them that I cannot accept their apps due to Guidance in making.

... really, it may be easier for all of us if you made this into a Guidance. Everyone loves to be Spain/Portugal and their respective colonies I will have hard time convincing them that it is no possible here.

[Oscalantine]

Speaking of Guidance... mine's ready.


Guidance Name : Legacy of Song continues
Guidance Description : Scientific and technological revolutions occurred during Song Dynasty was astounding. These legacies allowed Song Dynasty leaps and miles ahead of technological capabilities of other nations. It could be argued that Song Dynasty was able to continue its existence thanks to its own technological feats rather than its administrative capabilities. However, its eventual fall to the Mongols saw the fall of Song Dynasty… but nots its legacy.
Under the Pax Mongolia, the technologies were inherited Mongol Empire, who allowed these technologies to flourish and continue. More importantly, technological engineering of Song Dynasty were shared with the rest of the world. This allowed Mongol Empire and to spread the engineering feats of Song Dynasty with the Far East cousins, allowing Far East countries great amount of technological advancement under Pax Mongolia.
Furthermore, with the creation of Golden Khanate after the fall of Mongol Empire, which allowed the Khanate ideals of advancement and sharing of scientific advancements, invaded and successfully re-conquered the Chinese once more, further allowing Song Dynasty’s legacies to be continued and shared. This allowed the Song Dynasty’s scientific progress to continue throughout the oriental history.
Furthermore, as Golden Khanate held firm grip in the orient, the neo-Confucian idea were unable to become the dominant ideology. Neo-Confucianism, which in current timeline halted scientific progress due to its conservative beliefs, were unable to take root in China and Far East in general. Without the philosophical bottleneck, the legacy of Song Dynasty continued, allowing industrialization to occur in the Far East.
In short, due to Song Dynasty’s legacy kept in hold by the Mongolian grip on the Chinese proper, Far East regions maintained their technological growth, allowing them to compete with the Western nations. While not superior… and perhaps not even very well spread, the Europeans had to acknowledge that the Far East were their equals in terms of science and culture.

Affected Area : Oriental Asia, including Manchurian provinces, mainland China, Korean Peninsula, and Japanese Islands. European perception of Far East region has also changed from “primitive” to “equals.”

[Cymrea]

Eww new world colonizing? Go settle Oregon or something.

butbut...i can into colonies?

No worries. Oregon is awesome after 1850.

[Cymrea]

Is the UK and Ireland available? I see it shaded on the map, but not labelled.

It is... but for all its worth, the person reserving it hasn't responded to my comments after I have said that he needs to improve everything in the app.

Hmmm... I am seriously considering sending msg to all reserve folks to remind them of their apps. It is probably just history part that is getting to them, but not hearing from them in OOC is frighteningly scary T^T

Understood. I will complete an app just in case.

[Oscalantine]

It is... but for all its worth, the person reserving it hasn't responded to my comments after I have said that he needs to improve everything in the app.

Hmmm... I am seriously considering sending msg to all reserve folks to remind them of their apps. It is probably just history part that is getting to them, but not hearing from them in OOC is frighteningly scary T^T

Understood. I will complete an app just in case.

Thanks and welcome to Rp!!... that said, weren't you lurking here for longer than recently?

[Princess Kenny]

I think my final decision might be a Russian Kingdom owning several vassal states, recently formed and not fully conquered all of Siberia yet.
The mongols maintained power and separate Russian states which eventually gained their own autonomy as the Mongol rule was eventually pushed out became slightly more western and isolated from other Russian kingdoms, before being absorbed into Moscow and brutally oppressed.

Although I'm not sure if that'll be the best, I might want something to be a bit more unique, but I dunno.

[Oscalantine]

I think my final decision might be a Russian Kingdom owning several vassal states, recently formed and not fully conquered all of Siberia yet.
The mongols maintained power and separate Russian states which eventually gained their own autonomy as the Mongol rule was eventually pushed out became slightly more western and isolated from other Russian kingdoms, before being absorbed into Moscow and brutally oppressed.

Although I'm not sure if that'll be the best, I might want something to be a bit more unique, but I dunno.

That's unique enough, dude. I like it. I cannot wait for the coming of Russian history!! It would be SO interesting especially in the orient, where Mongol still maintains power! Oh what a wonderful day when there is a superpower willing and ACTUALLY agro-ing the hostility of the Mongols! Happy days for us Koreans!!

[New Granadeseret]

I think my final decision might be a Russian Kingdom owning several vassal states, recently formed and not fully conquered all of Siberia yet.
The mongols maintained power and separate Russian states which eventually gained their own autonomy as the Mongol rule was eventually pushed out became slightly more western and isolated from other Russian kingdoms, before being absorbed into Moscow and brutally oppressed.

Although I'm not sure if that'll be the best, I might want something to be a bit more unique, but I dunno.

Perhaps Mongol rule... well, never did get pushed away? And burned and sacked Russia rather then leaving it's cities intact as vassals, thus ending in a Mongol-populated region?

They clearly managed to succeed in the East/China with keeping power, so they very well might be able to do it in the West. With the two Khans disagreeing about which one should actually rule the 'whole' empire, of course

[Oscalantine]

I think my final decision might be a Russian Kingdom owning several vassal states, recently formed and not fully conquered all of Siberia yet.
The mongols maintained power and separate Russian states which eventually gained their own autonomy as the Mongol rule was eventually pushed out became slightly more western and isolated from other Russian kingdoms, before being absorbed into Moscow and brutally oppressed.

Although I'm not sure if that'll be the best, I might want something to be a bit more unique, but I dunno.

Perhaps Mongol rule... well, never did get pushed away? And burned and sacked Russia rather then leaving it's cities intact as vassals, thus ending in a Mongol-populated region?

They clearly managed to succeed in the East/China with keeping power, so they very well might be able to do it in the West. With the two Khans disagreeing about which one should actually rule the 'whole' empire, of course

That would be interesting. So you are saying that Russia maintained "Khanate" status among the other Mongols, but is still "Russian" by culture, allowing them claims over even China?

O.o... scary thought for someone squished in here between Japan and Mongol-China.

[Tracian Empire]

Perhaps Mongol rule... well, never did get pushed away? And burned and sacked Russia rather then leaving it's cities intact as vassals, thus ending in a Mongol-populated region?

They clearly managed to succeed in the East/China with keeping power, so they very well might be able to do it in the West. With the two Khans disagreeing about which one should actually rule the 'whole' empire, of course

That would be interesting. So you are saying that Russia maintained "Khanate" status among the other Mongols, but is still "Russian" by culture, allowing them claims over even China?

O.o... scary thought for someone squished in here between Japan and Mongol-China.

Don't worry, Imperium Romanum will save you all.

[Oscalantine]

That would be interesting. So you are saying that Russia maintained "Khanate" status among the other Mongols, but is still "Russian" by culture, allowing them claims over even China?

O.o... scary thought for someone squished in here between Japan and Mongol-China.

Don't worry, Imperium Romanum will save you all.

Holy Emprah! the Imperium has arrived!

[New Granadeseret]

Perhaps Mongol rule... well, never did get pushed away? And burned and sacked Russia rather then leaving it's cities intact as vassals, thus ending in a Mongol-populated region?

They clearly managed to succeed in the East/China with keeping power, so they very well might be able to do it in the West. With the two Khans disagreeing about which one should actually rule the 'whole' empire, of course

That would be interesting. So you are saying that Russia maintained "Khanate" status among the other Mongols, but is still "Russian" by culture, allowing them claims over even China?

O.o... scary thought for someone squished in here between Japan and Mongol-China.

Well... kind of. More the Mongols managed to assimilate the Russians into something at least passable as Mongolian. So mostly Russian by ethnicity but a Russo-Mongol fusion by culture. We DO have a guidanace that says the Empire lives quite a bit longer then it did IRL, after all, so SOMETHING must have happened to keep the locals in line. Of course, it'd be his decision, but I just thought it'd be a cool suggestion.

[Oscalantine]

That would be interesting. So you are saying that Russia maintained "Khanate" status among the other Mongols, but is still "Russian" by culture, allowing them claims over even China?

O.o... scary thought for someone squished in here between Japan and Mongol-China.

Well... kind of. More the Mongols managed to assimilate the Russians into something at least passable as Mongolian. So mostly Russian by ethnicity but a Russo-Mongol fusion by culture. We DO have a guidanace that says the Empire lives quite a bit longer then it did IRL, after all, so SOMETHING must have happened to keep the locals in line. Of course, it'd be his decision, but I just thought it'd be a cool suggestion.

We do? Why wasn't it approved by me...yet? XDDD
I have such a hard time keeping up with OOC nowadays. I am really grateful for everyone for being so active in the threads. I hope I can meet the expectations! T^T

[New Granadeseret]

Well... kind of. More the Mongols managed to assimilate the Russians into something at least passable as Mongolian. So mostly Russian by ethnicity but a Russo-Mongol fusion by culture. We DO have a guidanace that says the Empire lives quite a bit longer then it did IRL, after all, so SOMETHING must have happened to keep the locals in line. Of course, it'd be his decision, but I just thought it'd be a cool suggestion.

We do? Why wasn't it approved by me...yet? XDDD
I have such a hard time keeping up with OOC nowadays. I am really grateful for everyone for being so active in the threads. I hope I can meet the expectations! T^T

Guidance Name : The Khan lives on
Guidance Description : The Mongol empire lives on, as a whole.
Affected Area : Mostly Asia, except russia

It was by one of your co-ops so...

and the Empire looked like this http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=mon ... ajaxhist=0

(or the non-claimed areas thereof) so...

[Tracian Empire]

We do? Why wasn't it approved by me...yet? XDDD
I have such a hard time keeping up with OOC nowadays. I am really grateful for everyone for being so active in the threads. I hope I can meet the expectations! T^T

Guidance Name : The Khan lives on
Guidance Description : The Mongol empire lives on, as a whole.
Affected Area : Mostly Asia, except russia

It was by one of your co-ops so...

and the Empire looked like this http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=mon ... ajaxhist=0

(or the non-claimed areas thereof) so...

Now that I look at it, it would be a problem with my history. If that really happened, I can't just ignore a mongol advance in the middle of Asia Minor.

[Oscalantine]

Guidance Name : The Khan lives on
Guidance Description : The Mongol empire lives on, as a whole.
Affected Area : Mostly Asia, except russia

It was by one of your co-ops so...

and the Empire looked like this http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=mon ... ajaxhist=0

(or the non-claimed areas thereof) so...

Now that I look at it, it would be a problem with my history. If that really happened, I can't just ignore a mongol advance in the middle of Asia Minor.

I am glad that I didn't remember. Because that is horribly detailed request and I would definitely DENY IT.

Seriously, Sci sometimes has brilliant ideas, but never words them properly. Claven and I have been wrestling with his (Claven's) guidance for DAYS now. He is probably more or less what I would think is acceptable than Sci's two word detail.

... speaking of, Tracian, your history may change a bit. It isn't much, but basically Rome never had SUPER influence over the Middle East. Sure, the Romans were victorious in many battles, but ultimately they were pushed back and were forced to settle with having vassals or the likes. Is there anything that I should fix in order to make transition easier?

... that being said, don't bother changing the history. The guidance is mostly for the future RPs and apps, and not intended to punish the already-done apps... similar to how I am allow Brazilian Empire when Guidance which would prevent such existence in the first place from affecting its existence.

[Cymrea]

Full Nation Name: United Kingdom of Cambria (Cambrian Empire)
Majority/Official Culture: Welsh, English
Territorial Core: England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Isle of Man, Channel Islands, Orkey Islands, Shetlands, Canada west of upper St. Lawrence, Ivory Coast (Cote d'Ivoire), Australia, Jamaica, Ascension Island.
Territorial Claim: Rest of Quebec and Atlantic Canada
Capital City: London (Londinium)
Population: 34.7 million (Populstat 1860)

Government Type: Constitutional monarchy
Government Ideology/Policies: Imperialist
Government Focus: Military, economy/industry, science
Head of State: Queen Victoria o Rosa Regina (Alexandrina Tudoria Victoria)
Head of Government: Consul Primaris William Caledonis Gladstone
Government Description: The Cambrian Parliament is a bicameral legislature composed of the Circle of Archons (upper house of peerage) and the Circle of Praetors (lower house of commons). The Royal Senate is the executive cabinet of specialised advisors in particular ministries who advise the Consul Primaris.

Majority/State Religion: Druidism
Religious Description: Pagan worship of the world at large, with particular veneration of the Sacred Trees. Cambrian Druidism is ministered by the Circle of Druids.

Economic Ideologies: Mercantilism, leaning to capitalism
Major Production: Industrial equipment
Economic Description: Leading the world in financial services, resource extraction, and global trade, Cambria maintains a powerhouse economy that is increasingly enriched by industrial manufacturing.

Army and Navy Strengths and Weaknesses: Cambria's military is about 1% of their population, which is over 34 million. I haven't expanded that because it's only been a couple of IC years. This means that with all my vast territories to defend, I have only 320,000 regular and reserve forces in my armies and navies combined. The result is that localised garrisons are required to be largely self-reliant across all of Cambria, Canada, Australia, Ivory Coast, and Cambrian Sinai.

Having the largest navy means being able to cover my disparate regions and their commercial shipping lanes without leaving ports undefended. Discipline means they can fight in formations, maneuver well, and have a low chance of breaking/routing. Well-trained and well-equipped speak for themselves.

National Goals: Maintain the empire
National Issues: Tolerance of modern paganism
National Figures of Interest: High Druid Owainn
National Ambition/Aspirations: Imperial expansion and global prosperity

History: As the northern tribes assaulted and settled a Britannia recently bereft of Roman garrisons, they found a stable and comfortable quality of life and so Roman influence never faded, but instead flourished in its own way.

In the 15th Century, the popularity of Maria Tudoria Elizabeth I was extremely high, but her Privy Council, her Parliament and her subjects thought that the unmarried queen should take a husband; it was generally accepted that, once a queen regnant was married, the husband would relieve the woman of the burdens of head of state. Also, without an heir, the Tudor dynasty would end; the risk of civil war between rival claimants was a possibility if Elizabeth died childless. The first and most ardent suitor was Mary I’s widower Philip II of Spain. However, numerous other suitors from nearly all European nations sent ambassadors to the English court to put forward their suit.

Risk of death came dangerously close in 1564 when Elizabeth caught smallpox, and British destiny forever changed. It is said that in her fever, she experienced a holy visitation from a source no one would ever have suspected, given her moderate yet adamant Protestant views. Elizabeth claimed that Danu, mother goddess to the Tuatha de Danaan – the forerunners of modern Celts – came to her in her hour of greatest peril and told her that the elder gods had returned from their long celestial journey to reclaim the hearts and spirits of their Briton children. Elizabeth quickly recovered and proclaimed the vision a miracle.

The Second War of the Roses followed, with House York rising up with the support of all Christians of the realm, many of them Lancastrian. But a return to the original gods and a renewal of ties to the land was popular among the laymen and more nobles than might have been thought joined the Tudor cause. The Church of England reacted virulently, supporting the Yorkists and declaring Elizabeth and her revived Druidism anathema. In response, Elizabeth decreed the Church to be valid, but no longer the faith of the Crown and State. Popular revolts against the clergy resulted in the Church’s presence being reduced to Yorkist fortifications. In the end, the overwhelming popularity of Druidism resulted in the expunging of the Church of England.

The initial reaction from Rome was one of support for Elizabeth, seen as a scourge against the Protestants. The Vatican believed that Catholicism could be reinvigourated in Britain. Too late, the Pope realised that the movement was strong enough to hold permanent sway over the nostalgic Britons. Having supported the movement at its inception, the Pope could not exactly call for a Crusade – especially given that Rome was greatly occupied with the Holy Land, and that Britain held nothing of geographical or theological importance for Catholicism. Indeed, the pagan artifact Stonehenge became a leading symbol for the Druid revival, something the Vatican wanted no part of. As a result of the successful Druid Movement, Elizabeth conformed readily to the idea that marriage and birth-giving were natural cycles of the gods-given Earth. She married Edwardius Robert Dudley, 1st Earl of Leicester, in 1565. After much anticipation and anxiety, Elizabeth finally gave birth to Augustus Tudorius Taliesin I in 1575; Prince Taliesin succeeded his mother to the throne in 1603.

The nation’s identity as a Welsh state of Roman influence was solidified when, in 1599, Prince Taliesin suggested the name Cambria, a Roman version of Cymru, the Welsh name for Wales. The name was officially adopted November 3, 1601, and was declared the national holiday by Queen Elizabeth. Later, the name of the family line would be changed to Rosa, to reflect the Tudor rose. This incited a sweeping change of name for all noble Houses of Cambria, who would not be left out. Native flora and fauna became symbols - and names - for the oldest Houses. After a similar popular Druidic Movement, Ireland joined the United Kingdom of Cambria. Today, Cambria spans the world and is often informally referred to as the Cambrian Empire.

Comparison Points – Political: 3
Comparison Points – Cultural/Religious: 2
Comparison Points – Economy: 4
Comparison Points – Military: 4
Total Comparison Points used (13 Points MAX): 13/13

[Oscalantine]

-snip-

Errr..... ... ... ... .......
You realize that most of the lands you wanted are claimed, and same for Britain, right?

[Tracian Empire]

It was by one of your co-ops so...

and the Empire looked like this http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=mon ... ajaxhist=0

(or the non-claimed areas thereof) so...

Now that I look at it, it would be a problem with my history. If that really happened, I can't just ignore a mongol advance in the middle of Asia Minor.

I am glad that I didn't remember. Because that is horribly detailed request and I would definitely DENY IT.

Seriously, Sci sometimes has brilliant ideas, but never words them properly. Claven and I have been wrestling with his (Claven's) guidance for DAYS now. He is probably more or less what I would think is acceptable than Sci's two word detail.

... speaking of, Tracian, your history may change a bit. It isn't much, but basically Rome never had SUPER influence over the Middle East. Sure, the Romans were victorious in many battles, but ultimately they were pushed back and were forced to settle with having vassals or the likes. Is there anything that I should fix in order to make transition easier?

... that being said, don't bother changing the history. The guidance is mostly for the future RPs and apps, and not intended to punish the already-done apps... similar to how I am allow Brazilian Empire when Guidance which would prevent such existence in the first place from affecting its existence.

Well, between 610 and 700, the Roman Empire lost control over all its Middle Eastern and African territories, even if they sometimes took control of Syria back. However, the Romans always kept a good control of Asia Minor, since it was practically the heart of the empire. We could, I don't know, maybe make some short lived Roman vassals around that were defeated by the Mongols? And maybe, the Mongols were defeated somewhere around there by a Neo-Akkadian- Roman force?