A World Without America II [Invite Only, See Within / OOC ]

[Unicario]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand there goes my dreams of a Großdeutschland. ;_;

Approved, schweinhund.

So did your dreams of Kleindeutschland.

Also since Greece has apparently already revolted against the Ottomans could I have Austria already own Bukovina (which it in RL took in 1776) and Bosnia (acquired after the Russo-Turkish War 1878) as spoils of whatever war brought independence to Greece?

So you say, Habsburger.

Greece isn't quite independent yet.

[Of the Quendi]

So you say, Habsburger.

Greece isn't quite independent yet.

Well even if Greece is just in the process of becoming independent that would indicate that the Ottomans are tanking badly, leaving at least Bukovina (not even directly owned by the Ottomans but by a puppet state) vulnerable.

[Ruridova]

So you say, Habsburger.

Greece isn't quite independent yet.

Well even if Greece is just in the process of becoming independent that would indicate that the Ottomans are tanking badly, leaving at least Bukovina (not even directly owned by the Ottomans but by a puppet state) vulnerable.

Greece is presently on the verge of revolution, but they haven't revolted yet.

Presently I'm waiting to post the first conflict in the Hellenes until I've got something on either the Two Sicilies or Siam.

[Of the Quendi]

Greece is presently on the verge of revolution, but they haven't revolted yet.

Presently I'm waiting to post the first conflict in the Hellenes until I've got something on either the Two Sicilies or Siam.

Austria is willing to support a Greek uprising, provided that it gets a say in selecting the future king.

[Bojikami]

Greece is presently on the verge of revolution, but they haven't revolted yet.

Presently I'm waiting to post the first conflict in the Hellenes until I've got something on either the Two Sicilies or Siam.

Austria is willing to support a Greek uprising, provided that it gets a say in selecting the future king.

As I recall, Ruri's Greece was going to be a republic.

[Of the Quendi]

As I recall, Ruri's Greece was going to be a republic.

I read that too. If Ruridova insists on a revolutionary republican country obviously Austria isn't going to support Greece but if it becomes a republic like the interim provisional one the RL Greeks established before they founded the kingdom then Austria will support it provided that it can get a guarantee that no king aligned with enemies of Austria is ultimately selected.

[Bojikami]

As I recall, Ruri's Greece was going to be a republic.

I read that too. If Ruridova insists on a revolutionary republican country obviously Austria isn't going to support Greece but if it becomes a republic like the interim provisional one the RL Greeks established before they founded the kingdom then Austria will support it provided that it can get a guarantee that no king aligned with enemies of Austria is ultimately selected.

Meh. The Cossacks would support regardless out of hate for the Ottomans.

[Ruridova]

I was planning on Greece being wholly republican, with an elected government and so forth. It would not be revolutionary republican in the sense of revolutionary France where they wanted to kill all the nobles everywhere and reshape everything.... at least, for the time being. Greece's future is very fluid, and could have any number of twists and turns. At present there are no plans to cut off royal heads.

If having some sort of constitutional monarch gets us Austria as an ally, though, then a limited constitutional monarchy might be considered rather eagerly. Some power will have to be in the hands of an elected government, though.

[Of the Quendi]

Meh. The Cossacks would support regardless out of hate for the Ottomans.

Well thats their business. Austria doesn't do anything that doesn't get it its proper due.

Speaking of the Cossacks do you RP them as being an independent nation or a Russian vassal state?

I was planning on Greece being wholly republican, with an elected government and so forth. It would not be revolutionary republican in the sense of revolutionary France where they wanted to kill all the nobles everywhere and reshape everything.... at least, for the time being. Greece's future is very fluid, and could have any number of twists and turns. At present there are no plans to cut off royal heads.

If having some sort of constitutional monarch gets us Austria as an ally, though, then a limited constitutional monarchy might be considered rather eagerly. Some power will have to be in the hands of an elected government, though.

Any republican government would inherently be revolutionary in Europe of 1773 and viewed with skepticism from the autocratic monarchical Austria. Even a constitutionally restrained monarchy would be considered revolutionary to some Austrians. But that can at least be accepted.

[Bojikami]

Meh. The Cossacks would support regardless out of hate for the Ottomans.

Well thats their business. Austria doesn't do anything that doesn't get it its proper due.

Speaking of the Cossacks do you RP them as being an independent nation or a Russian vassal state?

The Cossacks are independent, and fiercely so.

[Of the Quendi]

The Cossacks are independent, and fiercely so.

OK. What territory does it control?

[Bojikami]

The Cossacks are independent, and fiercely so.

OK. What territory does it control?

Most of Ukraine west of the Dnieper.

[Luziyca]

Well, I am amazed, Of the Quendi, that I saw your name on here. It's been a few years since I last RPed with you.

[Of the Quendi]

Most of Ukraine west of the Dnieper.

West? How would you have come in possession of most of Ukraine west of Dnieper? Its lands was traditionally (and in RL 1773) under Polish-Lithuanian control since after the Mongols was driven back east. It didn't become Russian till the second partition.

Well, I am amazed, Of the Quendi, that I saw your name on here. It's been a few years since I last RPed with you.

Thanks.

[Luziyca]

Most of Ukraine west of the Dnieper.

West? How would you have come in possession of most of Ukraine west of Dnieper? Its lands was traditionally (and in RL 1773) under Polish-Lithuanian control since after the Mongols was driven back east. It didn't become Russian till the second partition.

Well, I am amazed, Of the Quendi, that I saw your name on here. It's been a few years since I last RPed with you.

Thanks.

Indeed. I remember how your leader was pissed off at that seemingly mentally ill Tau Mei in Khorata...

[Bojikami]

Most of Ukraine west of the Dnieper.

West? How would you have come in possession of most of Ukraine west of Dnieper? Its lands was traditionally (and in RL 1773) under Polish-Lithuanian control since after the Mongols was driven back east. It didn't become Russian till the second partition.

Nations don't always have to be exactly historical. Uni made that pretty clear.

[Ruridova]

Meh. The Cossacks would support regardless out of hate for the Ottomans.

Well thats their business. Austria doesn't do anything that doesn't get it its proper due.

Speaking of the Cossacks do you RP them as being an independent nation or a Russian vassal state?

I was planning on Greece being wholly republican, with an elected government and so forth. It would not be revolutionary republican in the sense of revolutionary France where they wanted to kill all the nobles everywhere and reshape everything.... at least, for the time being. Greece's future is very fluid, and could have any number of twists and turns. At present there are no plans to cut off royal heads.

If having some sort of constitutional monarch gets us Austria as an ally, though, then a limited constitutional monarchy might be considered rather eagerly. Some power will have to be in the hands of an elected government, though.

Any republican government would inherently be revolutionary in Europe of 1773 and viewed with skepticism from the autocratic monarchical Austria. Even a constitutionally restrained monarchy would be considered revolutionary to some Austrians. But that can at least be accepted.

Any ideas on who the monarch will be? It should probably be a member of House Hapsburg who's sufficiently out of the line of succession that he could run a Greek Orthodox constitutional monarchy with republican elements.

[Of the Quendi]

Indeed. I remember how your leader was pissed off at that seemingly mentally ill Tau Mei in Khorata...

... How can you possibly just remember something like that? It was four years ago? I had to look it up to know what you are talking about. But yes there was a certain altercation where my paramount leader put a sword to Tau Mei's throat and broke his nose with a punch. Pretty impressive for an eighty year old grandmother I suppose. And not entirely unmemorable.

Nations don't always have to be exactly historical. Uni made that pretty clear.

Sure but the OP also seem to suggest that Poland isn't completely broken which it would be if a Cossack Hetmanate reaches as far west as the RL modern day Volyn and Lviv Oblasts. Also I lay claim to much of southwest Ukraine as Western Galicia.

Any ideas on who the monarch will be? It should probably be a member of House Hapsburg who's sufficiently out of the line of succession that he could run a Greek Orthodox constitutional monarchy with republican elements.

It wouldn't necessarily have to be a Habsburger, just someone who isn't anti-Habsburg. But you can have Maria Theresa's youngest son; archduke Maximilian Francis.

[Ruridova]

Heyyy, I get Emmanuel Carasso this time!

[Ruridova]

Indeed. I remember how your leader was pissed off at that seemingly mentally ill Tau Mei in Khorata...

... How can you possibly just remember something like that? It was four years ago? I had to look it up to know what you are talking about. But yes there was a certain altercation where my paramount leader put a sword to Tau Mei's throat and broke his nose with a punch. Pretty impressive for an eighty year old grandmother I suppose. And not entirely unmemorable.

Nations don't always have to be exactly historical. Uni made that pretty clear.

Sure but the OP also seem to suggest that Poland isn't completely broken which it would be if a Cossack Hetmanate reaches as far west as the RL modern day Volyn and Lviv Oblasts. Also I lay claim to much of southwest Ukraine as Western Galicia.

Any ideas on who the monarch will be? It should probably be a member of House Hapsburg who's sufficiently out of the line of succession that he could run a Greek Orthodox constitutional monarchy with republican elements.

It wouldn't necessarily have to be a Habsburger, just someone who isn't anti-Habsburg. But you can have Maria Theresa's youngest son; archduke Maximilian Francis.

Danke schön. Once the Greeks are looking for allies, I'll have them contact you with the offer to make Maximilian Franz von Habsburg King of the Hellenes.

So basically my plan is that there will be several large protests in cities like Athens, Sparta, Corinth, Thessaloniki, Lamia, Chalkida, Heraklion, Nicosia, Patra, Larissa, Piraeus, Corfu, Komotimi, etc., etc. There will be some serious confrontations where Ottoman troops fire on angry Greeks, leading to outright rebellion. There will be two factions within the nascent revolution, a less radical one that wants a constitutional monarch and traditionalist powerful, and a more radical one that wants total democracy and less traditional policy. In the midst of the revolution, the less radical faction will win, installing the aforementioned Hapsburg as King of the Hellenes(some duchies will be created for him too, and then given to his kids); he'll be cooperating alongside an elected leadership led by a Prime Minister and Parliament. The Parliament will likely be divided between the aforementioned conservative and liberal factions. The Greek Orthodox Church will also be rather powerful.

That's what'll happen to Greece between 1773 and about 1780. After that, I'm still unsure, but there should be a Hapsburg constitutional king ruling alongside the PM and Parliament of the Hellenes for the next few decades at the minimum.

Greece's territory after independence will be OTL Greece and Cyprus. This makes things fun for future Greco-Turkish relation because at this point in time there are still Greeks in Thrace and Ionia(giving Greece irredentist goals) and there are Turks in northern Cyprus(giving the Ottomans a potential place to cause trouble).

[Of the Quendi]

Greece's territory after independence will be OTL Greece and Cyprus. This makes things fun for future Greco-Turkish relation because at this point in time there are still Greeks in Thrace and Ionia(giving Greece irredentist goals) and there are Turks in northern Cyprus(giving the Ottomans a potential place to cause trouble).

Surely the extent of the territory will be decided by how successful the rebellion is at defeating the Ottomans.

[Unicario]

Heyyy, I get Emmanuel Carasso this time!

Oh god don't whore him out please.

[Ruridova]

Greece's territory after independence will be OTL Greece and Cyprus. This makes things fun for future Greco-Turkish relation because at this point in time there are still Greeks in Thrace and Ionia(giving Greece irredentist goals) and there are Turks in northern Cyprus(giving the Ottomans a potential place to cause trouble).

Surely the extent of the territory will be decided by how successful the rebellion is at defeating the Ottomans.

The plan is for the revolution to be successful; the territory was agreed upon before the RP began.

Heyyy, I get Emmanuel Carasso this time!

Oh god don't whore him out please.

Don't worry, I'm not that evil.

[Unicario]

FYI, I don't think many nations who don't fuck their cousins will back your rebellion if it looks like it's just a front for the Habsburgs to expand their political influence. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

[Ruridova]

FYI, I don't think many nations who don't fuck their cousins will back your rebellion if it looks like it's just a front for the Habsburgs to expand their political influence. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

Austria is very close and very powerful. We can make a Balkan pincer. It's strategy.