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by Unicario » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:30 pm
by Ruridova » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:33 pm
Unicario wrote:Aegean Sea Strait
Controller must control Naxos, Rhodes and Gallipoli.
Only allies of controller may pass in and out of the region unless otherwise declared.
Controller right now: Ottoman Empire
by The Vaktovian Empire » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:33 pm
by Ruridova » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:34 pm
Bojikami wrote:Luziyca wrote:For now. Once Yeongjo dies however, his son will probably attempt to get Korea to declare independence from China, albeit gradually (i.e. allowing the Dutch and British to expand their presence, but only keep direct control of Nampo and Incheon respectively, constitutional monarchy, before culminating in independence).
If Korea declares independence, China will gain a province.
by Bojikami » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:35 pm
by Ruridova » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:37 pm
by Bojikami » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:38 pm
by Ruridova » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:40 pm
Bojikami wrote:Ruridova wrote:The Ming were reactionaries. Their big thing was bringing China back to the ways of the Qin, Han, Tang, and Song. They wanted to turn back the clock as though the Yuan Dynasty had never been a thing. They were reactionaries.
Not in terms of technological progress Ruri, and I'm sure Est would agree with me on the fact that if Ming persisted it would become a mighty nation in asia.
by The Vaktovian Empire » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:42 pm
Ruridova wrote:Bojikami wrote:Not in terms of technological progress Ruri, and I'm sure Est would agree with me on the fact that if Ming persisted it would become a mighty nation in asia.
They turned very much inwards towards the end of their rule, and we are definitely past that point.
Just because Luziyca got away with an irrealistic super-China doesn't mean you should.
by Bojikami » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:42 pm
Ruridova wrote:Bojikami wrote:Not in terms of technological progress Ruri, and I'm sure Est would agree with me on the fact that if Ming persisted it would become a mighty nation in asia.
They turned very much inwards towards the end of their rule, and we are definitely past that point.
Just because Luziyca got away with an irrealistic super-China doesn't mean you should.
by Unicario » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:44 pm
by Bojikami » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:46 pm
Unicario wrote:From what I have gathered, Boji's China will violate no rules yet. The Ming were reactionaries, but many could see the writings on the wall.
by Ruridova » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:52 pm
Bojikami wrote:Ruridova wrote:They turned very much inwards towards the end of their rule, and we are definitely past that point.
Just because Luziyca got away with an irrealistic super-China doesn't mean you should.
For the last damn time it is not irrealistic. Chinese rulers were not some hive mind nor did they keep the same uniform ideologies.
Unicario wrote:From what I have gathered, Boji's China will violate no rules yet. The Ming were reactionaries, but many could see the writings on the wall.
by Unicario » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:55 pm
Ruridova wrote:Bojikami wrote:For the last damn time it is not irrealistic. Chinese rulers were not some hive mind nor did they keep the same uniform ideologies.
The Late Ming rulers were reactionary. Many of the powerful Chinese political factions that controlled imperial administration were reactionary. Local leaders were reactionary. The clergy was generally reactionary, particularly the omnipresent Confucians.Bojikami wrote:And they weren't even reactionaries. They simply longed for the days of glory prior to Mongol conquest.
They sought to turn back the clock and return China to the policies and ruling style of the pre-Yuan dynasties. They sought to abolish the changes the Mongols had made and return to legalistic and Confucian principles. That is reactionism.Unicario wrote:From what I have gathered, Boji's China will violate no rules yet. The Ming were reactionaries, but many could see the writings on the wall.
Except, you know, when Luziyca's China last RP maintained its iron hold on its vassals, stated technologically advanced, avoided the many military defeats China IRL suffered, and did all the stuff Boji is doing, you were fuming about how damned irrealistic it was.
by Ruridova » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:59 pm
Unicario wrote:Ruridova wrote:The Late Ming rulers were reactionary. Many of the powerful Chinese political factions that controlled imperial administration were reactionary. Local leaders were reactionary. The clergy was generally reactionary, particularly the omnipresent Confucians.
They sought to turn back the clock and return China to the policies and ruling style of the pre-Yuan dynasties. They sought to abolish the changes the Mongols had made and return to legalistic and Confucian principles. That is reactionism.
Except, you know, when Luziyca's China last RP maintained its iron hold on its vassals, stated technologically advanced, avoided the many military defeats China IRL suffered, and did all the stuff Boji is doing, you were fuming about how damned irrealistic it was.
1. China had no vassals, I was literally fucking with his China in every way I could.
2. Chinese technological advancement basically bankrolled off of Japanese technological advancement. We had to give to our allies.
3. China never went into war in AWWA 2; they went to war once, with Japan, and got the SHIT beat out of them.
4. It's only been two years into the RP, please be patient with Boji before you start going off on him.
by Unicario » Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:03 pm
by Ruridova » Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:10 pm
by Estainia » Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:35 pm
by Luziyca » Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:41 pm
Estainia wrote:This is not Great Qing, therefore it is not hearkened to the same string of weaknesses and internal dissent as Great Qing was. This Great Ming is one that has for all intents and purposes, survived this long because it could presumably adapt to the rising changes of technologies (some of which they even literally created or pioneered over three hundred years ago). The idea that because Great Qing was weak, this Great Ming must be weak, is bullshit and frankly either one of two things, Eurocentrism and the idea that White Christian Europeans Are God And All Others Are Inferior; or you're trying to weaken China OOCly to stop IC ambitions in Asia out of fear it might just stop you.
There's the two-bits from the side-line guy.
by Bojikami » Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:50 pm
Luziyca wrote:Estainia wrote:This is not Great Qing, therefore it is not hearkened to the same string of weaknesses and internal dissent as Great Qing was. This Great Ming is one that has for all intents and purposes, survived this long because it could presumably adapt to the rising changes of technologies (some of which they even literally created or pioneered over three hundred years ago). The idea that because Great Qing was weak, this Great Ming must be weak, is bullshit and frankly either one of two things, Eurocentrism and the idea that White Christian Europeans Are God And All Others Are Inferior; or you're trying to weaken China OOCly to stop IC ambitions in Asia out of fear it might just stop you.
There's the two-bits from the side-line guy.
Yeah. To be honest, the continuation of the Ming would be confusing because if the player drops that and someone else joins in and RPs China, they may roleplay as the Qing dynasty (which was what happened with me).
by United Marxist Nations » Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:03 pm
The Kievan People wrote: United Marxist Nations: A prayer for every soul, a plan for every economy and a waifu for every man. Solid.
St. John Chrysostom wrote:A comprehended God is no God.
by Luziyca » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:01 pm
Bojikami wrote:Luziyca wrote:Yeah. To be honest, the continuation of the Ming would be confusing because if the player drops that and someone else joins in and RPs China, they may roleplay as the Qing dynasty (which was what happened with me).
I am unlikely to drop Ming though, as I find myself completely fascinated by China.
by Bojikami » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:20 pm
Ruridova wrote:Anyways, the Greek War ends in 1777 and all the famous battles aside from the final one have been fought, so...
by Unicario » Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:52 am
by Mitteleuropa » Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:14 am
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