A World Without America II [Invite Only, See Within / OOC ]

[Qianrong]

My previous and once again present plan was/is OTL Greece and Cyprus now, and maybe some wars for Megali later.

Ruri, how would you even get to Cyprus?

EDIT: You would probably want to go after Macedonia and Epirus before going Megali (which I still contend would be nigh-impossible) as well.

Cyprus has a Greek population. Has since Byzantine times. One of the war campaigns will be the Turkish campaign for Cyprus, which will end after Greek militia inflict a major defeat on the Turks at Dhekelia, using memories of Turkish atrocities following Second Nicosia to rally Greek Cypriots. This will of course lead to future conflict in Greece because Turkish Cypriots.

You're also ignoring part of what I said. My plan for Greece is that, as part of the treaty that concludes the Greek War of Independence, all territories of OTL modern day Greece and Cyprus will be given to the Hellenic State. All. The wars for Megali will be for Eastern Thrace, Bithynia, and Ionia because Attica, the Peloponnese, Epirus, Thessaly, Greek Macedonia, Western Thrace, Crete, Cyprus, and the miscellaneous islands of the Ionian and Aegean will already be Greek.

[Unicario]

See, this is where realism becomes a burden. We're basically shutting down all player ambition in the name of realism. So fucking what if under OTL circumstances, Greece couldn't mastermind a landing in Cyprus? This is an alternate universe, really, a billion things different can happen. Ruri has my blessing and support to pursue and annex his "modern Greece and Cyprus" goals, as they're more than acceptable, and not landgrabby in the slightest.

[Ruridova]

http://i.imgur.com/WZzSjrT.png

This is my present map of Greece, the Two Sicilies, and Siam for all present plans. The boundaries given to Greece here are the non-negotiable minimum.

[Unicario]

ಠ_ಠ

I feel like we've lost the real point of why I rebooted this trainwreck of an RP. At first, I was more than happy to let it die a death befitting something great; despite the hiccups, we ended it on a note that didn't end with us wanting to beat the shit out of each other. But realism has never been the key point of this roleplay. In a absolute majority of cases, all the things we did in that RP disregarded realism in many ways. Sure, we tried to keep it out of Alien Space Bat territory (until the very end, when we had Catholicism dissolving, Shintoism mass-conversions all over South America). But we never seriously gave realism attention. Go back and look at the shit we did. Does *any* of that seem historically accurate to you? Like... Britain backing down from the Opium Wars? China rolling up like a piece of paper when Japan shoved in through the South, and no resistance was made?

Or perhaps in Europe with the Germany that was horrendously rekt in a military confrontation in the 21st century by Denmark and Czechoslovakia? Or the dozens of other examples, such as Shurism and Andelite Islam.

I'm not saying this to target any one person, all of us did it. But I'm saying this because I don't want AWWA to turn into yet another NationStates RP with so much realism shoved up the collective arse that it becomes dreary and unfun for those with weaker nations, who can't hope to fucking break out because of player gangbangs -- This RP was revived to be FUN. Not a history lesson in realism.

[United Marxist Nations]

Ruri, how would you even get to Cyprus?

EDIT: You would probably want to go after Macedonia and Epirus before going Megali (which I still contend would be nigh-impossible) as well.

Cyprus has a Greek population. Has since Byzantine times. One of the war campaigns will be the Turkish campaign for Cyprus, which will end after Greek militia inflict a major defeat on the Turks at Dhekelia, using memories of Turkish atrocities following Second Nicosia to rally Greek Cypriots. This will of course lead to future conflict in Greece because Turkish Cypriots.

You're also ignoring part of what I said. My plan for Greece is that, as part of the treaty that concludes the Greek War of Independence, all territories of OTL modern day Greece and Cyprus will be given to the Hellenic State. All. The wars for Megali will be for Eastern Thrace, Bithynia, and Ionia because Attica, the Peloponnese, Epirus, Thessaly, Greek Macedonia, Western Thrace, Crete, Cyprus, and the miscellaneous islands of the Ionian and Aegean will already be Greek.

On the first part, that is a good point, point on Cyprus conceded.

[Unicario]

ಠ_ಠ

I feel like we've lost the real point of why I rebooted this trainwreck of an RP. At first, I was more than happy to let it die a death befitting something great; despite the hiccups, we ended it on a note that didn't end with us wanting to beat the shit out of each other. But realism has never been the key point of this roleplay. In a absolute majority of cases, all the things we did in that RP disregarded realism in many ways. Sure, we tried to keep it out of Alien Space Bat territory (until the very end, when we had Catholicism dissolving, Shintoism mass-conversions all over South America). But we never seriously gave realism attention. Go back and look at the shit we did. Does *any* of that seem historically accurate to you? Like... Britain backing down from the Opium Wars? China rolling up like a piece of paper when Japan shoved in through the South, and no resistance was made?

Or perhaps in Europe with the Germany that was horrendously rekt in a military confrontation in the 21st century by Denmark and Czechoslovakia? Or the dozens of other examples, such as Shurism and Andelite Islam.

I'm not saying this to target any one person, all of us did it. But I'm saying this because I don't want AWWA to turn into yet another NationStates RP with so much realism shoved up the collective arse that it becomes dreary and unfun for those with weaker nations, who can't hope to fucking break out because of player gangbangs -- This RP was revived to be FUN. Not a history lesson in realism.

[United Marxist Nations]

ಠ_ಠ

I feel like we've lost the real point of why I rebooted this trainwreck of an RP. At first, I was more than happy to let it die a death befitting something great; despite the hiccups, we ended it on a note that didn't end with us wanting to beat the shit out of each other. But realism has never been the key point of this roleplay. In a absolute majority of cases, all the things we did in that RP disregarded realism in many ways. Sure, we tried to keep it out of Alien Space Bat territory (until the very end, when we had Catholicism dissolving, Shintoism mass-conversions all over South America). But we never seriously gave realism attention. Go back and look at the shit we did. Does *any* of that seem historically accurate to you? Like... Britain backing down from the Opium Wars? China rolling up like a piece of paper when Japan shoved in through the South, and no resistance was made?

Or perhaps in Europe with the Germany that was horrendously rekt in a military confrontation in the 21st century by Denmark and Czechoslovakia? Or the dozens of other examples, such as Shurism and Andelite Islam.

I'm not saying this to target any one person, all of us did it. But I'm saying this because I don't want AWWA to turn into yet another NationStates RP with so much realism shoved up the collective arse that it becomes dreary and unfun for those with weaker nations, who can't hope to fucking break out because of player gangbangs -- This RP was revived to be FUN. Not a history lesson in realism.

This whole thing is meant to prevent player gangbangs. My fear is that super-duper Franco-British-Prusso alliance will use its power as the unstoppable killing machine it is to destroy both myself and the Austrians.

[Unicario]

ಠ_ಠ

I feel like we've lost the real point of why I rebooted this trainwreck of an RP. At first, I was more than happy to let it die a death befitting something great; despite the hiccups, we ended it on a note that didn't end with us wanting to beat the shit out of each other. But realism has never been the key point of this roleplay. In a absolute majority of cases, all the things we did in that RP disregarded realism in many ways. Sure, we tried to keep it out of Alien Space Bat territory (until the very end, when we had Catholicism dissolving, Shintoism mass-conversions all over South America). But we never seriously gave realism attention. Go back and look at the shit we did. Does *any* of that seem historically accurate to you? Like... Britain backing down from the Opium Wars? China rolling up like a piece of paper when Japan shoved in through the South, and no resistance was made?

Or perhaps in Europe with the Germany that was horrendously rekt in a military confrontation in the 21st century by Denmark and Czechoslovakia? Or the dozens of other examples, such as Shurism and Andelite Islam.

I'm not saying this to target any one person, all of us did it. But I'm saying this because I don't want AWWA to turn into yet another NationStates RP with so much realism shoved up the collective arse that it becomes dreary and unfun for those with weaker nations, who can't hope to fucking break out because of player gangbangs -- This RP was revived to be FUN. Not a history lesson in realism.

This whole thing is meant to prevent player gangbangs. My fear is that super-duper Franco-British-Prusso alliance will use its power as the unstoppable killing machine it is to destroy both myself and the Austrians.

I'm not going to speak right now because I'm not in the right emotional state to not end up dropping fifty f-bombs.

[United Marxist Nations]

This is my proposal for a compromised partition; if there are any things wrong, let me know. If something isn't on the map, it is because I ran out of colors. Lighter colors = spheres of influence. To try to ensure that the Ottomans are roleplayed more realistically, I will claim them in the aftermath of the war (a period in which there will be a civil war).

http://i.imgur.com/JLIioiY.png

First Fix: http://i.imgur.com/OwpB0h7.png
-historical Austrian Eastern border.
-Cossacks gain Bessarabia and East Wallachia.

Second Fix: http://i.imgur.com/oXS5KBS.png
-Fixed Prussian Western border to historical level.

Third Fix: http://i.imgur.com/zpPTCE1.png
-Fixed Greek Border to include OTL Greece & Cyprus.

[United Marxist Nations]

This whole thing is meant to prevent player gangbangs. My fear is that super-duper Franco-British-Prusso alliance will use its power as the unstoppable killing machine it is to destroy both myself and the Austrians.

I'm not going to speak right now because I'm not in the right emotional state to not end up dropping fifty f-bombs.

That is fine, I can wait. However, you could have said it without the patronizing gif.

[Unicario]

I'm not going to speak right now because I'm not in the right emotional state to not end up dropping fifty f-bombs.

That is fine, I can wait. However, you could have said it without the patronizing gif.

I'm frustrated right now.

[United Marxist Nations]

That is fine, I can wait. However, you could have said it without the patronizing gif.

I'm frustrated right now.

Think we all are.

[Ruridova]

This is my proposal for a compromised partition; if there are any things wrong, let me know. If something isn't on the map, it is because I ran out of colors. Lighter colors = spheres of influence. To try to ensure that the Ottomans are roleplayed more realistically, I will claim them in the aftermath of the war (a period in which there will be a civil war).

http://i.imgur.com/JLIioiY.png

First Fix: http://i.imgur.com/OwpB0h7.png
-historical Austrian Eastern border.
-Cossacks gain Bessarabia and East Wallachia.

Second Fix: http://i.imgur.com/oXS5KBS.png
-Fixed Prussian Western border to historical level.

Third Fix: http://i.imgur.com/zpPTCE1.png
-Fixed Greek Border to include OTL Greece & Cyprus.

You forgot the minor islands.

(You technically did, but it's not particularly important because Rhodes and Naxos and Chios and so forth are not exactly super important)

[United Marxist Nations]

This is my proposal for a compromised partition; if there are any things wrong, let me know. If something isn't on the map, it is because I ran out of colors. Lighter colors = spheres of influence. To try to ensure that the Ottomans are roleplayed more realistically, I will claim them in the aftermath of the war (a period in which there will be a civil war).

http://i.imgur.com/JLIioiY.png

First Fix: http://i.imgur.com/OwpB0h7.png
-historical Austrian Eastern border.
-Cossacks gain Bessarabia and East Wallachia.

Second Fix: http://i.imgur.com/oXS5KBS.png
-Fixed Prussian Western border to historical level.

Third Fix: http://i.imgur.com/zpPTCE1.png
-Fixed Greek Border to include OTL Greece & Cyprus.

You forgot the minor islands.

(You technically did, but it's not particularly important because Rhodes and Naxos and Chios and so forth are not exactly super important)

Probably just inattention to details. There are bits of Russia and China not filled in as well.

[The Vaktovian Empire]

Just to put things into context to support Uni's points, I almost successfully made Spain Muslim in the Second Installment of the original AWWA and for a time had Kim Kardashian (Or a similar appearing figure) ruling Portugal, which turned into a Spanish-expy. AND I had Brazil highly modernized and in civil war in a Third Installment. AND I had Norway becoming a Kaiserreich in the 1800s. AND I had France become non-Catholic, which is all why I was so pissed I couldn't get it back. So Marxist, there you have your point totally blown out of the water.

[United Marxist Nations]

Just to put things into context to support Uni's points, I almost successfully made Spain Muslim in the Second Installment of the original AWWA and for a time had Kim Kardashian (Or a similar appearing figure) ruling Portugal, which turned into a Spanish-expy. AND I had Brazil highly modernized and in civil war in a Third Installment. AND I had Norway becoming a Kaiserreich in the 1800s. AND I had France become non-Catholic, which is all why I was so pissed I couldn't get it back. So Marxist, there you have your point totally blown out of the water.

Actually, that kind of makes my point for me.

[Unicario]

Just to put things into context to support Uni's points, I almost successfully made Spain Muslim in the Second Installment of the original AWWA and for a time had Kim Kardashian (Or a similar appearing figure) ruling Portugal, which turned into a Spanish-expy. AND I had Brazil highly modernized and in civil war in a Third Installment. AND I had Norway becoming a Kaiserreich in the 1800s. AND I had France become non-Catholic, which is all why I was so pissed I couldn't get it back. So Marxist, there you have your point totally blown out of the water.

Actually, that kind of makes my point for me.

More or less, not really. It basically illustrates that AWWA was never really all about realism. We tried to have *some* realism but sometimes realism is a drag.

[Luziyca]

Actually, that kind of makes my point for me.

More or less, not really. It basically illustrates that AWWA was never really all about realism. We tried to have *some* realism but sometimes realism is a drag.

Definitely. Too much realism, and the RP loses its luster. Too little, and it subverts the point. The previous AWWA RP did strike a balance, in my opinion, until it crumbled due to disputes (some of it was my fault).

[United Marxist Nations]

Actually, that kind of makes my point for me.

More or less, not really. It basically illustrates that AWWA was never really all about realism. We tried to have *some* realism but sometimes realism is a drag.

I think what I'm proposing is a good compromise. If you disagree, point out where you think it goes over the line, and I will defend the point or concede if I am wrong.

[Of the Quendi]

^Very much in agreement with this. The reason I've been more aggressive in securing ties with Austria is that I fear that if I don't do exactly what Uni wants, he's going to use super-alliance and aforementioned OP powers to pick Russia up and throw it through a proverbial pane-glass window.

EDIT: And the agreements between Britain and Prussia are extremely unrealistic; I was literally lol'ing IRL when it happened because it was the exact opposite of what Britain tried to do. Britain was terrified of a united Germany. So was France; they even tried to prevent it from happening in 1989.

I would like to say that I don't think that Uni or any other player in the RP is deliberately trying to godmod or metagame or anything. My concern is that there simply seem to be a, to my mind ludicrous, understanding that the unification of northern Germany is going to happen and that the great power interest in preventing this is therefore ignored, which I don't think they should be. Indeed the British where always keen on preventing the formation of continental threats to its power and a great German Empire, even if we disregard the whole issue with Hannover, would be a great threat. For France the problem would be even greater. A united Germany could supplant France as the greatest power in the world and threaten its borders like it did in RL.

[Ruridova]

Greece post

REVOLUTIONARY FLAG

This flag was commonly used by Greek rebels against Turkey during the Greek War of Independence. The blue and white are traditional Greek colors, and the cross symbolizes Christianity. Despite widespread usage, it was never given any official status in Greece.

NATIONAL FLAG

Flag used by the Hellenic State, known popularly as the Blue-and-White. The white cross in the blue canton represents Christianity, the crown symbolizing the monarchy. The nine stripes either reference the nine syllables in the words "eleftheria i thanatos"- Greek for "liberty or death"- or are a reference to the nine Muses- Calliope, Clio, Euterpe, Erato, Melpomene, Polyhymnia, Terpsichore, Thalia, and Urania. Blue is said to represent the sea and bravery, while white represents the sky and purity.

NATIONAL COAT OF ARMS

The official national coat of arms of Greece is a simple white cross on a blue background. The colors are roughly the same as the colors on the national flag.

ELECTIVE COAT OF ARMS

This seal is used by the Prime Minister and the Parliament of Greece, and is hence known as the Elective Coat of Arms. It contains the shield bearing the white cross on blue background, surrounded by two laurel branches. On government documents, a monochromatic blue-and-white version is sometimes used.

MONARCHIC COAT OF ARMS

This seal is used by the King of the Hellenes and the Royal Family, and is hence known as the Monarchic Coat of Arms. Again, it contains the white cross on blue background, but it has many more features found in the coats of arms of royal dynasties and monarchies. The shield is flanked by two figures representing Hercules, topped by a crown and surrounded by the ribbon and cross of the Order of the Redeemer, depicting Christ Pancocrator. Below the shield is a banner reading "the people's love is my strength".

Battle - GREEK VICTORY
Battle - TURKISH VICTORY
Battle - INDECISIVE
† signifies a pyrrhic victory

Itamos & Karpenisi - GREEK
Patra - GREEK
Makrakomi - GREEK
Igoumenitsa - GREEK
Edirne - TURKISH
1st Piraeus - GREEK
Izmir - TURKISH
Kalamata - GREEK
Molaoi - TURKISH
1st Nicosia - GREEK
1st Chios - TURKISH
Ammochostos - TURKISH
2nd Nicosia - TURKISH
Komotini - GREEK†
1st Ioannina - INDECISIVE
Heraklion - GREEK
2nd Chios - GREEK
1st Volos - TURKISH
Larissa - INDECISIVE
Agios Epitikos - TURKISH
2nd Ioannina - GREEK
2nd Piraeus - TURKISH
1st Ermoupoli - TURKISH
Alexandroupoli - TURKISH
Chalkida - TURKISH
Lamia - TURKISH
Sparta - INDECISIVE
Canakkale - TURKISH
Gallipoli - TURKISH
Mount Athos - GREEK
Epanomi - TURKISH
1st Livadia - TURKISH
Megara - TURKISH
Dhekelia - GREEK
Rethimno - INDECISIVE
Chania - GREEK
Kavala - GREEK
Galatas - TURKISH
Chalastra - INDECISIVE
Corinth - GREEK
3rd Piraeus - GREEK
Athens - GREEK
2nd Ermoupoli - TURKISH
Naxos - INDECISIVE
Kirklareli - TURKISH
Kesan - TURKISH
Oresitas - TURKISH†
Thessaloniki - GREEK
2nd Volos - GREEK
Karditsa - GREEK
Mytilini - TURKISH
Trikala - GREEK†
Pyrgetos - GREEK
Archangelos - INDECISIVE
2nd Livadia - GREEK

(incomplete)

[Ruridova]

Fear not, I'm writing a post on Alexandros arriving in Greece. It should be up some point today or tomorrow. Hopefully that breathes a little life back into this.

[Bojikami]

Fear not, I'm writing a post on Alexandros arriving in Greece. It should be up some point today or tomorrow. Hopefully that breathes a little life back into this.

I shall post tomorrow also about the Battle of Bralia.

[The Vaktovian Empire]

I'm gonna try and post. There's really nothing to do in my countries right now. I'm considering re-applying as different ones.

[Bojikami]

I'm gonna try and post. There's really nothing to do in my countries right now. I'm considering re-applying as different ones.

Nothing to do with Spain? There is plenty to do with Spain. Especially with the battle of Bayamo coming up.