[P2TM Chat] The Restaurant at the End of the Multiverse II

[Grenartia]

Well, to be frank, Canada's military has, since our independence, mostly been used for peacekeeping missions (though Harper's been trying to change that, apparently), and most of us disapprove of the US's wars and want to stay as far away from that as we can.

I mean, hell, Canada's not at all a saint, and yeah, sometimes we assist in enabling the States' messiah complex, but for the most part we're just trying to stay on good terms with as many people as possible (especially the powerful ones, but who can blame us for that?).

USA's messiah complex is all part of their plan to annexing Middle East countries for oil.

While I get why some people would honestly believe that, I can't believe they actually believe it. Seeing as how we can't even get Puerto Rico to become the 51st state. To say nothing of the fact that even during the opening of the Second Iraq War, everybody knew the Middle East was too much of a clusterfuck to ever hope to annex, even if we actually wanted to. To say nothing of the fact that even if we managed to magic away the insurgent and terrorist problem over there, and unite the region under our banner, there's the simple matter of the place being a money sink, and of it being indefensible. All the common American ever supported invading Iraq for was because of WMDs, toppling the oppressive Hussein regieme, and making sure there was no link between the Iraqis and Al Queda.

[Reverend Norv]

USA's messiah complex is all part of their plan to annexing Middle East countries for oil.

While I get why some people would honestly believe that, I can't believe they actually believe it. Seeing as how we can't even get Puerto Rico to become the 51st state. To say nothing of the fact that even during the opening of the Second Iraq War, everybody knew the Middle East was too much of a clusterfuck to ever hope to annex, even if we actually wanted to. To say nothing of the fact that even if we managed to magic away the insurgent and terrorist problem over there, and unite the region under our banner, there's the simple matter of the place being a money sink, and of it being indefensible. All the common American ever supported invading Iraq for was because of WMDs, toppling the oppressive Hussein regieme, and making sure there was no link between the Iraqis and Al Queda.

My experience of the Iraq War is not representative, because most of the Iraqis whom I know are Kurds.

So now look at it from the Iraqi Kurds' perspective. For five hundred years, you're shock troops and border guards for the Ottoman Empire. In the 1880s, you rebel in the name of national liberation, because the Empire has started centralizing authority in Turkish hands. The rebellion is crushed.

After World War One, you're put under the heel of the British Empire. You rebel again. The British bomb you with biplanes. You continue the struggle at a low level until Iraq becomes independent. You rebel again. For two years, there's an independent Kurdish state in northwestern Iran. Then the Shah sells you out.

The Baathists take over. You fight for the next three generations. The Iraqi army burns villages and drives you out of cities that were central to your homeland. When you try to negotiate with Saddam, he straps his emissaries with suicide vests in an attempt to kill your leaders. In the '80s, Saddam invades your territory, crowds entire villages onto cattle cars, takes them south, machine-guns them, and buries them in the desert of southern Iraq. Most of the mass graves are never found.

Saddam gases Halabja. It smells like green apples, and then you vomit, hemorrhage, and die. Five thousand men, women, and children in an afternoon.

And then the First Gulf War. Bush fails to topple Saddam, but tells the Kurds to rise up. They do; Saddam massacres them again. Hundreds of thousands flee, only to find the Turkish border closed against them and Iraqi tanks at their backs. And the cattle cars are waiting again.

And then the US intervenes, establishes a no-fly zone over northern Iraq, forces Saddam to withdraw, and provides enough food and medical care to save innumerable lives. The US gives the Kurds the first decade of peace in half a century. But to the south, the tanks and the gas bombs and the cattle cars are waiting. Saddam has almost destroyed the Kurds twice. He won't hesitate if the chance comes a third time.

And then, in 2003, the US finishes the job at last. Saddam is gone. The gas bombs are destroyed, the hated army is disbanded. Sixty years of vigilance and fear and struggle and horror, sixty years of never knowing if your people will survive to see the next Newroz - over. I don't know a single Kurd who was dry-eyed when they heard the news.

I'm not going to write a brief for the Iraq War. It was comprehensively bungled, caused massive and unnecessary harm, destroyed America's international reputation, and probably made the world a more unsafe place than it was in 2002.

But when I think of all my Kurdish friends, I still can't quite bring myself to say that it was wrong.

[Zeinbrad]

YOUR COUNTRY IS SHIT AND THAT'S THE ONLY GOOD THING I'M GOING TO SAY ABOUT MINE

PATRIOTISM.

[Zeinbrad]

While I get why some people would honestly believe that, I can't believe they actually believe it. Seeing as how we can't even get Puerto Rico to become the 51st state. To say nothing of the fact that even during the opening of the Second Iraq War, everybody knew the Middle East was too much of a clusterfuck to ever hope to annex, even if we actually wanted to. To say nothing of the fact that even if we managed to magic away the insurgent and terrorist problem over there, and unite the region under our banner, there's the simple matter of the place being a money sink, and of it being indefensible. All the common American ever supported invading Iraq for was because of WMDs, toppling the oppressive Hussein regieme, and making sure there was no link between the Iraqis and Al Queda.

My experience of the Iraq War is not representative, because most of the Iraqis whom I know are Kurds.

So now look at it from the Iraqi Kurds' perspective. For five hundred years, you're shock troops and border guards for the Ottoman Empire. In the 1880s, you rebel in the name of national liberation, because the Empire has started centralizing authority in Turkish hands. The rebellion is crushed.

After World War One, you're put under the heel of the British Empire. You rebel again. The British bomb you with biplanes. You continue the struggle at a low level until Iraq becomes independent. You rebel again. For two years, there's an independent Kurdish state in northwestern Iran. Then the Shah sells you out.

The Baathists take over. You fight for the next three generations. The Iraqi army burns villages and drives you out of cities that were central to your homeland. When you try to negotiate with Saddam, he straps his emissaries with suicide vests in an attempt to kill your leaders. In the '80s, Saddam invades your territory, crowds entire villages onto cattle cars, takes them south, machine-guns them, and buries them in the desert of southern Iraq. Most of the mass graves are never found.

Saddam gases Halabja. It smells like green apples, and then you vomit, hemorrhage, and die. Five thousand men, women, and children in an afternoon.

And then the First Gulf War. Bush fails to topple Saddam, but tells the Kurds to rise up. They do; Saddam massacres them again. Hundreds of thousands flee, only to find the Turkish border closed against them and Iraqi tanks at their backs. And the cattle cars are waiting again.

And then the US intervenes, establishes a no-fly zone over northern Iraq, forces Saddam to withdraw, and provides enough food and medical care to save innumerable lives. The US gives the Kurds the first decade of peace in half a century. But to the south, the tanks and the gas bombs and the cattle cars are waiting. Saddam has almost destroyed the Kurds twice. He won't hesitate if the chance comes a third time.

And then, in 2003, the US finishes the job at last. Saddam is gone. The gas bombs are destroyed, the hated army is disbanded. Sixty years of vigilance and fear and struggle and horror, sixty years of never knowing if your people will survive to see the next Newroz - over. I don't know a single Kurd who was dry-eyed when they heard the news.

I'm not going to write a brief for the Iraq War. It was comprehensively bungled, caused massive and unnecessary harm, destroyed America's international reputation, and probably made the world a more unsafe place than it was in 2002.

But when I think of all my Kurdish friends, I still can't quite bring myself to say that it was wrong.

I think the Kurd's really love the Bush family.

[Wolfenium]

My experience of the Iraq War is not representative, because most of the Iraqis whom I know are Kurds.

So now look at it from the Iraqi Kurds' perspective. For five hundred years, you're shock troops and border guards for the Ottoman Empire. In the 1880s, you rebel in the name of national liberation, because the Empire has started centralizing authority in Turkish hands. The rebellion is crushed.

After World War One, you're put under the heel of the British Empire. You rebel again. The British bomb you with biplanes. You continue the struggle at a low level until Iraq becomes independent. You rebel again. For two years, there's an independent Kurdish state in northwestern Iran. Then the Shah sells you out.

The Baathists take over. You fight for the next three generations. The Iraqi army burns villages and drives you out of cities that were central to your homeland. When you try to negotiate with Saddam, he straps his emissaries with suicide vests in an attempt to kill your leaders. In the '80s, Saddam invades your territory, crowds entire villages onto cattle cars, takes them south, machine-guns them, and buries them in the desert of southern Iraq. Most of the mass graves are never found.

Saddam gases Halabja. It smells like green apples, and then you vomit, hemorrhage, and die. Five thousand men, women, and children in an afternoon.

And then the First Gulf War. Bush fails to topple Saddam, but tells the Kurds to rise up. They do; Saddam massacres them again. Hundreds of thousands flee, only to find the Turkish border closed against them and Iraqi tanks at their backs. And the cattle cars are waiting again.

And then the US intervenes, establishes a no-fly zone over northern Iraq, forces Saddam to withdraw, and provides enough food and medical care to save innumerable lives. The US gives the Kurds the first decade of peace in half a century. But to the south, the tanks and the gas bombs and the cattle cars are waiting. Saddam has almost destroyed the Kurds twice. He won't hesitate if the chance comes a third time.

And then, in 2003, the US finishes the job at last. Saddam is gone. The gas bombs are destroyed, the hated army is disbanded. Sixty years of vigilance and fear and struggle and horror, sixty years of never knowing if your people will survive to see the next Newroz - over. I don't know a single Kurd who was dry-eyed when they heard the news.

I'm not going to write a brief for the Iraq War. It was comprehensively bungled, caused massive and unnecessary harm, destroyed America's international reputation, and probably made the world a more unsafe place than it was in 2002.

But when I think of all my Kurdish friends, I still can't quite bring myself to say that it was wrong.

I think the Kurd's really love the Bush family.

When someone's warmongering actually gives you a chance to live like a decent human being, it's hard to hate him. The same cannot be said about the people you strip the power to oppress from.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

I think the Kurd's really love the Bush family.

When someone's warmongering actually gives you a chance to live like a decent human being, it's hard to hate him. The same cannot be said about the people you strip the power to oppress from.

You mean, it's hard to hate them, right? I hope? If not, I'm completely at a loss of what that sentence means.

[Wolfenium]

When someone's warmongering actually gives you a chance to live like a decent human being, it's hard to hate him. The same cannot be said about the people you strip the power to oppress from.

You mean, it's hard to hate them, right? I hope? If not, I'm completely at a loss of what that sentence means.

Whoops, sorry. I already edited it. Hard to type on the phone.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

You mean, it's hard to hate them, right? I hope? If not, I'm completely at a loss of what that sentence means.

Whoops, sorry. I already edited it. Hard to type on the phone.

Not to worry! Sarcasm can run wild here, so I had to make sure. Yeah, when a warmonger stops a regime that gassed your cities, you tend to like said warmonger.

[Zeinbrad]

I think the Kurd's really love the Bush family.

When someone's warmongering actually gives you a chance to live like a decent human being, it's hard to hate him. The same cannot be said about the people you strip the power to oppress from.

Aren't the Kurds, besides Israel, our only reliable ally in the Middle East?

[The Tiger Kingdom]

When someone's warmongering actually gives you a chance to live like a decent human being, it's hard to hate him. The same cannot be said about the people you strip the power to oppress from.

Aren't the Kurds, besides Israel, our only reliable ally in the Middle East?

Israel hasn't been a reliable ally in at least a decade, frankly.

[Constaniana]

When someone's warmongering actually gives you a chance to live like a decent human being, it's hard to hate him. The same cannot be said about the people you strip the power to oppress from.

Aren't the Kurds, besides Israel, our only reliable ally in the Middle East?

Jordan's quite fond of the West.

[Zeinbrad]

Aren't the Kurds, besides Israel, our only reliable ally in the Middle East?

Israel hasn't been a reliable ally in at least a decade, frankly.

So the Kurds are really the only ones?

[Rupudska]

When someone's warmongering actually gives you a chance to live like a decent human being, it's hard to hate him. The same cannot be said about the people you strip the power to oppress from.

Aren't the Kurds, besides Israel, our only reliable ally in the Middle East?

Israel's been mostly doing its own thing for about a decade.

[Reverend Norv]

Aren't the Kurds, besides Israel, our only reliable ally in the Middle East?

Jordan's quite fond of the West.

The government is. The people mostly hate us. Rates of public anti-Americanism are among the highest in the world.

[Constaniana]

Jordan's quite fond of the West.

The government is. The people mostly hate us. Rates of public anti-Americanism are among the highest in the world.

Gosh darn it.

[Nature-Spirits]

While I get why some people would honestly believe that, I can't believe they actually believe it. Seeing as how we can't even get Puerto Rico to become the 51st state. To say nothing of the fact that even during the opening of the Second Iraq War, everybody knew the Middle East was too much of a clusterfuck to ever hope to annex, even if we actually wanted to. To say nothing of the fact that even if we managed to magic away the insurgent and terrorist problem over there, and unite the region under our banner, there's the simple matter of the place being a money sink, and of it being indefensible. All the common American ever supported invading Iraq for was because of WMDs, toppling the oppressive Hussein regieme, and making sure there was no link between the Iraqis and Al Queda.

My experience of the Iraq War is not representative, because most of the Iraqis whom I know are Kurds.

So now look at it from the Iraqi Kurds' perspective. For five hundred years, you're shock troops and border guards for the Ottoman Empire. In the 1880s, you rebel in the name of national liberation, because the Empire has started centralizing authority in Turkish hands. The rebellion is crushed.

After World War One, you're put under the heel of the British Empire. You rebel again. The British bomb you with biplanes. You continue the struggle at a low level until Iraq becomes independent. You rebel again. For two years, there's an independent Kurdish state in northwestern Iran. Then the Shah sells you out.

The Baathists take over. You fight for the next three generations. The Iraqi army burns villages and drives you out of cities that were central to your homeland. When you try to negotiate with Saddam, he straps his emissaries with suicide vests in an attempt to kill your leaders. In the '80s, Saddam invades your territory, crowds entire villages onto cattle cars, takes them south, machine-guns them, and buries them in the desert of southern Iraq. Most of the mass graves are never found.

Saddam gases Halabja. It smells like green apples, and then you vomit, hemorrhage, and die. Five thousand men, women, and children in an afternoon.

And then the First Gulf War. Bush fails to topple Saddam, but tells the Kurds to rise up. They do; Saddam massacres them again. Hundreds of thousands flee, only to find the Turkish border closed against them and Iraqi tanks at their backs. And the cattle cars are waiting again.

And then the US intervenes, establishes a no-fly zone over northern Iraq, forces Saddam to withdraw, and provides enough food and medical care to save innumerable lives. The US gives the Kurds the first decade of peace in half a century. But to the south, the tanks and the gas bombs and the cattle cars are waiting. Saddam has almost destroyed the Kurds twice. He won't hesitate if the chance comes a third time.

And then, in 2003, the US finishes the job at last. Saddam is gone. The gas bombs are destroyed, the hated army is disbanded. Sixty years of vigilance and fear and struggle and horror, sixty years of never knowing if your people will survive to see the next Newroz - over. I don't know a single Kurd who was dry-eyed when they heard the news.

I'm not going to write a brief for the Iraq War. It was comprehensively bungled, caused massive and unnecessary harm, destroyed America's international reputation, and probably made the world a more unsafe place than it was in 2002.

But when I think of all my Kurdish friends, I still can't quite bring myself to say that it was wrong.

I have a Kurdish friend. Lovely woman.

Anyway, as with many wars, some good things happen, and many bad things happen. The Iraq War was no exception. I have to say, though, for the most part, it was horrible.

When someone's warmongering actually gives you a chance to live like a decent human being, it's hard to hate him. The same cannot be said about the people you strip the power to oppress from.

Aren't the Kurds, besides Israel, our only reliable ally in the Middle East?

I would express my intense dislike of Israel (having Arab friends tends to make you dislike it, after all; not to mention that Israel uses their relative acceptance LGBT people to justify their oppression of an entire national group, and I don't like being used), but I really don't want to open that can of worms here. It's pretty controversial, especially when Americans are involved.

Anyway, to answer your question: No. The Gulf oil countries are pretty fond of the West, really. In fact, Qatar hosts a US airforce base. That said, they mostly do their own thing.

[Nude East Ireland]

In fact, Qatar hosts a US airforce base.

You know what else Qatar will host, despite nobody wanting them to?

The 2020 World Cup.

[Nature-Spirits]

In fact, Qatar hosts a US airforce base.

You know what else Qatar will host, despite nobody wanting them to?

The 2020 World Cup.

2022, actually.

And yeah, I don't think that Qatar is the best place for it. Not only are they building stadia open to the sky (to be used in the summer -- I should note that the summer there is horribly hot, even in many of the nationals' opinion), but working conditions for the lower class are horrible there (like, practically slavery in some instances). Plus, there've been scandals, and no one likes those.

[Luxdonia]

YOUR COUNTRY IS SHIT AND THAT'S THE ONLY GOOD THING I'M GOING TO SAY ABOUT MINE

PATRIOTISM.

There is no shame in having pride in your country.

[Zeinbrad]

The government is. The people mostly hate us. Rates of public anti-Americanism are among the highest in the world.

Gosh darn it.

At least their king is what every man aspires to be.

[Lavan Tiri]

Gosh darn it.

At least their king is what every man aspires to be.

Uncircumcised?

[Luxdonia]

At least their king is what every man aspires to be.

Uncircumcised?

What have I just walked in to?

[Zarkenis Ultima]

Uncircumcised?

What have I just walked in to?

A wonderful place. -nods-

[The Tiger Kingdom]

Gosh darn it.

At least their king is what every man aspires to be.

Someone who was on Star Trek for five seconds?

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Uncircumcised?

What have I just walked in to?

A foreskin the size of a small tent.