The Bonaparte Legacy (1860's AH./Closed)

[New Granadeseret]

Of the Quendi: Oh, they have to be under French influence of course, but the Confederation is exactly that; a confederation of client states. If Barvara, Wurttemburg, and Baden federated separately... well, that's just a stronger barrier against Austria.

As for Portugal, you need to work out that plan. How about Spain gets the north and south, and France sets up Manuel in the center as the Kingdom of Lusitania?

Togeri: Indeed it will. The Civil war is essentially unavoidable, but how the election goes will drastically affect what areas exactly rebel.

On the matter of your canon, we need somewhere to send the Spainish Bourbons, and Mexico City seems to be the most likely place in my eyes. Do you have a suggestion of where in their New World territories a government-in-exile might work better?

[Of the Quendi]

Of the Quendi: Oh, they have to be under French influence of course, but the Confederation is exactly that; a confederation of client states. If Barvara, Wurttemburg, and Baden federated separately... well, that's just a stronger barrier against Austria.

As for Portugal, you need to work out that plan. How about Spain gets the north and south, and France sets up Manuel in the center as the Kingdom of Lusitania?

Togeri: Indeed it will. The Civil war is essentially unavoidable, but how the election goes will drastically affect what areas exactly rebel.

On the matter of your canon, we need somewhere to send the Spainish Bourbons, and Mexico City seems to be the most likely place in my eyes. Do you have a suggestion of where in their New World territories a government-in-exile might work better?

A confederation within a confederation is just plain weird. Since Bavaria would be providing most of the muscle of South Germany anyway can't he just RP a united centralized Bavaria within a decentralized confederacy in which it would be among the stronger nations.

Giving Spain both Northern Lusitania and the Algarve seems excessive. In the original treaty of Fontainebleau Spain wasn't offered anything. Since Napoleon took Catalonia it would make sense that they should get something but both Algarve and Lusitania seem unnecessarily generous. Likewise giving Godoy the best part of Portugal doesn't seem likely. That part was supposed to come under direct French rule. In my application I will have Napoleon eventually establish it as a state for one of his landless relations, Lucien probably, but only after a couple of years as an occupied territory. If Northern Lusitania is too little for Spain France and Spain can split the Portuguese african colonies. Mozambique for France, Angola for Spain to sweeten the deal.

[New Granadeseret]

Of the Quendi: Oh, they have to be under French influence of course, but the Confederation is exactly that; a confederation of client states. If Barvara, Wurttemburg, and Baden federated separately... well, that's just a stronger barrier against Austria.

As for Portugal, you need to work out that plan. How about Spain gets the north and south, and France sets up Manuel in the center as the Kingdom of Lusitania?

Togeri: Indeed it will. The Civil war is essentially unavoidable, but how the election goes will drastically affect what areas exactly rebel.

On the matter of your canon, we need somewhere to send the Spainish Bourbons, and Mexico City seems to be the most likely place in my eyes. Do you have a suggestion of where in their New World territories a government-in-exile might work better?

A confederation within a confederation is just plain weird. Since Bavaria would be providing most of the muscle of South Germany anyway can't he just RP a united centralized Bavaria within a decentralized confederacy in which it would be among the stronger nations.

Giving Spain both Northern Lusitania and the Algarve seems excessive. In the original treaty of Fontainebleau Spain wasn't offered anything. Since Napoleon took Catalonia it would make sense that they should get something but both Algarve and Lusitania seem unnecessarily generous. Likewise giving Godoy the best part of Portugal doesn't seem likely. That part was supposed to come under direct French rule. In my application I will have Napoleon eventually establish it as a state for one of his landless relations, Lucien probably, but only after a couple of years as an occupied territory. If Northern Lusitania is too little for Spain France and Spain can split the Portuguese african colonies. Mozambique for France, Angola for Spain to sweeten the deal.

Fair enough points. How about this: Spain gets North Lusitania or Algarve on the borders you suggested earlier (His choice), plus Gibraltar and the return of the Spainish side of Hispaniola. The remaining section is granted to Charles II (as he was promised a nation in Portugal in exchange for his Italian holdings), and a Bonaparte dynasty of your choice is set up in Lisbon. With Joseph safe on his throne, surely Napoleon would be willing to throw him that much.

The political situation in pre-unified Germany was always rather weird. The Confederation remained a league of sovereign state, so some type of South German unification isen't entirely out of the question. Perhaps you would accept a dynastic unification of the Houses of Wittelsbach and Württemberg, with Baden remaining an independent member? That is a distinct enough possibility, and France would no legal grounds nor reason to protest it?

[Neros]

I'll begin the argument for all of Portugal when I get off work in a few hours.

There is a reason for the title "Emperor of All Hispania" and not Most of Hispania.

EDIT: I will trade off colonies for all of Portugal as well, as I personally dislike them.

[Fascist Republic Of Bermuda]

Almost finished.
NS Name: Fascist Republic of Bermuda
Nation Name: South German Confederation
Head of State: Bavaria- King Ludwig I of Bavaria,
Baden- Grand Duke Frederick I of Baden
Württemberg- King Wilhelm I of Württemberg
Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen- Prince Karl Anton of Hohenzollern
Head of Government: Chancellor Hans Von Hauser
Head of Diplomacy: Foreign Minister Erik Von Normann
Territorial Claims: This

Flag:

Demonym: South German
Capital: Munich
Currency: Süddeutsche Mark
State/Primary Religion: Roman Catholic

Government Form: Federal Constitutional Confederation
Ideology: Pan-German Nationalism, Liberalism
Foreign Policy: France always knows best. Always follow France. But try to unify Germany along the way.
Domestic Policy: The largest issue in the Confederation is the widespread and prevalent sectionalism throughout the SGF. The government still tries to maintain the Confederation, but in recent years it has been increasingly unable to cope with growing secessionist movements.
Civil Freedoms /10: 8
Political Freedoms /10: 7
Economic Freedoms /10: 8

Military Size:
-Army: 200,000
-Navy: What? There is no Navy in South Germany!
-Elite Forces: Königliche Garde- 10,000
Bundesgrenadiers- 20,000
Military Description: The South German Military, while not exactly the premier army of the world, maintains relatively new weapons and good discipline. Doctrine boils down to offensive and defensive, with offensive being the standard line tactics so prevalent at this time and defensive being based around static defense, but more on trenches and other low-silhouette defenses than on forts and other highly-visible fortifications. Bundesgrenadiers ("Federal Grenadiers") are the best forces the SGF has available, and are often used as vanguards to larger armies and as shock troops.
Strengths and Weaknesses: TBA

Short Description of Your Nation's Economy: TBA
Short Description of Your Nation's Government: The South German Confederation is just that- a Confederation. The main body of the government still lies within it's member-states, but declarations of war, dictation of foreign policy, and some lawmaking take place in Munich. Members of the independent nation's government appoint delegates to represent them in Munich.
Short History of the last 60 years: Following the end of the Napoleonic Wars and the formation of the Confederation of the Rhine, the Germans were defeated and angry. In most Germans' eyes, the Confederation of the Rhine was a sick joke, like the HRE before it, destined to fail. As such, the South German states of Bavaria, Württemberg, and Baden, all under the Confederation of the Rhine, all under considerable French influence, decided to form an alliance to further their goals. This was the Pan-Southern German Alliance. After 12 years, in 1824, the member-states expanded to include a newly-independent Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen, which brought cries for union among the South German States, or "Süd-Anschluss". However, these dreams were unlikely until the Munich Conference of 1843. The Conference dragged out for 2 years, with countless delays, in interruptions, and compromises being reached before, on March 8th, 1845, the South German Confederation was established with it's capital in Munich.

Despite the unification of South Germany into a single entity, it was still racked with problems. For one, many were detesting the fact that the SGF, was, in fact, a Confederation within a Confederation, and thus must be abolished. Another annoying problem is that the 3 other member-states all feared a Bavarian-dominated central government, so it has had to remain mostly decentralized, with most government actions taking place far from Munich. The interactions between the Confederation of the Rhine and the SGF have been confusing, but eventually, in 1853, it was stated that the nations within the SGF would still retain their status as member-states of the Confederation of the Rhine, while the SGF itself was given the title of "Autonomous Union", acting as it's own entity but still technically being a part of the Confederation of the Rhine. The SGF today remains one of the most confusing states of modern society, but is still one of the strongest Germanic States.
Population of entire empire: 8 Million

[New Granadeseret]

A rough draft, detailing American and European nations and their colonies. Many areas are open to negotiations, but this is a basis we can work off.

http://i.imgur.com/AtQjSu7.png

Some standing issues include...

1. The division of Portugal
2. Ownership of Algeria (French or Ottoman?)
3. Sardinia (I'd imagine either The Kingdom of Italy or The Kingdom of Naples would have made moves on them in the last 50 years, but have yet to decide which)
4. Prussia membership in The Confederation of the Rhine (Does France force the in at some point?)
5.The fate of Sweden (Finland is unavoidable, but I'm trying to decide of Denmark-Norway seized the anti-French Swedes and tries to dominate Scandinavia, or if Sweden remains independent)
6. Make-up of South America (The rebellions could scatter off in any direction, and the seat of the Spanish government-in-exile is still up for determination)


This is the start of 1860, so Opium Wars concessions haven't be ratified yet. France and Great Britain can place their demands before the Qing any time they please.

(And, Quendi should weigh in on this, but I'd imagine France would want to set up a balance of power in Continental Europe that would prevent any one nation from being able to match it, correct? I'm curious what your strategy is to prevent Russia from reaching the point they can challenge French hegemony; its one of the main factors that would affect the listed issues)

[Of the Quendi]

Fair enough points. How about this: Spain gets North Lusitania or Algarve on the borders you suggested earlier (His choice), plus Gibraltar and the return of the Spainish side of Hispaniola. The remaining section is granted to Charles II (as he was promised a nation in Portugal in exchange for his Italian holdings), and a Bonaparte dynasty of your choice is set up in Lisbon. With Joseph safe on his throne, surely Napoleon would be willing to throw him that much.

The political situation in pre-unified Germany was always rather weird. The Confederation remained a league of sovereign state, so some type of South German unification isen't entirely out of the question. Perhaps you would accept a dynastic unification of the Houses of Wittelsbach and Württemberg, with Baden remaining an independent member? That is a distinct enough possibility, and France would no legal grounds nor reason to protest it?

I would prefer to give the remaining section to Godoy over Charles II. I kinda wanted to include Spanish Hispaniola in a French Dominion of Hispaniola but I will cave on that.

Regarding the unification of Bavaria and Württemberg I am however highly sceptic. Dynastic unification isn't really possible since the German states (except Austria) practiced fairly strict agnatic succession and it really would be very improbably that Southern Germany unites in a federation without seceding from the Confederation of the Rhine first.

I'll begin the argument for all of Portugal when I get off work in a few hours.

There is a reason for the title "Emperor of All Hispania" and not Most of Hispania.

EDIT: I will trade off colonies for all of Portugal as well, as I personally dislike them.

Well if you are referring to the old medieval title Imperator Totius Hispaniae that was a rather exaggerated title used by the strongest kings of the Iberian peninsula to claim superiority over the rest. No holder of that title was ever close to ruling all of Iberia. In fact I am not sure most of them controlled most.

The reason I am arguing against a very large Spanish acquisition of Portuguese territory is that I find very little reason to believe that anyone ever intended for the total disbandment of the state. Napoleon almost certainly never intended to truly wipe Portugal of the map, and if he did I can't imagine he planned on giving it to Spain. Besides with its colonies falling like dominos and its people opposing the French rulers surely Spain would be too busy to absorb the whole thing.

A rough draft, detailing American and European nations and their colonies. Many areas are open to negotiations, but this is a basis we can work off.

http://i.imgur.com/AtQjSu7.png

Some standing issues include...

1. The division of Portugal
2. Ownership of Algeria (French or Ottoman?)
3. Sardinia (I'd imagine either The Kingdom of Italy or The Kingdom of Naples would have made moves on them in the last 50 years, but have yet to decide which)
4. Prussia membership in The Confederation of the Rhine (Does France force the in at some point?)
5.The fate of Sweden (Finland is unavoidable, but I'm trying to decide of Denmark-Norway seized the anti-French Swedes and tries to dominate Scandinavia, or if Sweden remains independent)
6. Make-up of South America (The rebellions could scatter off in any direction, and the seat of the Spanish government-in-exile is still up for determination)


This is the start of 1860, so Opium Wars concessions haven't be ratified yet. France and Great Britain can place their demands before the Qing any time they please.

(And, Quendi should weigh in on this, but I'd imagine France would want to set up a balance of power in Continental Europe that would prevent any one nation from being able to match it, correct? I'm curious what your strategy is to prevent Russia from reaching the point they can challenge French hegemony; its one of the main factors that would affect the listed issues)

1. Well I think my plan is good and sensible.
2. Actually I claim the whole of Ottoman North Africa. In the event of a Napoleonic victory in the Napoleonic Wars I can't imagine that Napoleon wouldn't eventually want to return to Egypt given how enthusiastic he was about its acquisition. Without the British bothering him and this time with Talleyrand in his corner convincing the sultan to accept a French invasion it shouldn't be too difficult, and afterwards a gradual French takeover of most of North Africa seems likely.
3. I suggest keeping it independent under the House of Savoy. Neither Italy nor Naples where strong naval powers and presumably the UK would want it independent while France might want it for itself so independency seem to make the most sense to me.
4. Oh no, no Prussians within the union. They would become the most powerful state in it and hostile to France. By defining Germany as excluding both Austria and Prussia France gets a Germany that is "manageable" and hopefully won't get ideas above its station.
5. Generally speaking I, a Dane myself, regard any sort of unification of Scandinavia/The North as rather unlikely. Since the fall of Kalmar Union various kings of the different kingdoms have tried to make it happen without success. While Napoleon would presumably have been less than psyched to see Bernadotte on the Swedish throne I don't think a second Kalmar Union with Scandinavia dominated by one of the countries would be possible. But Pan-Scandinavianism might develop more successfully in RL paving the way for some form of loose confederation.
6. If the Bourbons did go to America they would have picked New Spain, they apparently tried to go there before being detained by the French. As for the rest a Bonapartist Spain, no longer prevented from contact with the colonies by the British, assisted by the French could probably, at least initially, cling on to quite a bit. The Caribbean certainly. Also I would like to claim all of the Guiana's for France and set up this thingy as a French protectorate.

I intend to RP Napoleon transforming his continental system into a sort of permanent alliance/trade association thing for France and its puppet states which could dominate the continent. The Franco-Russian relations would presumably be highly complex. French support for Poland (and potentially the Ottoman Empire) would obviously annoy Russia, on the other hand Russia would be an obvious French partner against the British Empire in Asia and against the influence of Prussia and especially Austria in Eastern Europe and the Balkans. Basically the French policy on keeping its position of prominence is to keep the puppet states in a close knit alliance and then use this sizable power bloc as the basis for conducting a divide and conquer policy against potential contenders.

[Bojikami]

EDIT: Applying for Mexico, will post app soon.

[Abrahammia]

Is the Confederate States of America open? If so, does it count as a country or rebel group?

[Unicario]

Is the Confederate States of America open? If so, does it count as a country or rebel group?

I don't feel comfortable having another RPer play the CSA...

[Abrahammia]

Is the Confederate States of America open? If so, does it count as a country or rebel group?

I don't feel comfortable having another RPer play the CSA...

Why not? Who are you going to have the civil war against, yourself?

[Unicario]

I don't feel comfortable having another RPer play the CSA...

Why not? Who are you going to have the civil war against, yourself?

Actually, yeah. The narrative of the CSA inevitably leads to defeat, especially when the Union is stronger in parallel to ATL, and I don't plan for Virginia and Texas to go over to the CSA when the ACW breaks out, due to the (planned) election of moderate Democratic-Republicans, whom will appease border-walkers (Virginia, Kentucky, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas) and the radicals, but still alienates hardcore southerners -- by declaring that slavery is evil, yes, regulating almost every aspect of it barring abolition, which is left up to the states to decide (for now hue hue hue)

[Baja California y Sonora]

Tag. What's open?

[Abrahammia]

Why not? Who are you going to have the civil war against, yourself?

Actually, yeah. The narrative of the CSA inevitably leads to defeat, especially when the Union is stronger in parallel to ATL, and I don't plan for Virginia and Texas to go over to the CSA when the ACW breaks out, due to the (planned) election of moderate Democratic-Republicans, whom will appease border-walkers (Virginia, Kentucky, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas) and the radicals, but still alienates hardcore southerners -- by declaring that slavery is evil, yes, regulating almost every aspect of it barring abolition, which is left up to the states to decide (for now hue hue hue)

Well, here's the thing, they'll still join us because of big government and the lack of states rights and such.

[Segmentia]

Shouldn't Russia have Alaska? Or was the Alaska purchase moved forward in this?

[Unicario]

Actually, yeah. The narrative of the CSA inevitably leads to defeat, especially when the Union is stronger in parallel to ATL, and I don't plan for Virginia and Texas to go over to the CSA when the ACW breaks out, due to the (planned) election of moderate Democratic-Republicans, whom will appease border-walkers (Virginia, Kentucky, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas) and the radicals, but still alienates hardcore southerners -- by declaring that slavery is evil, yes, regulating almost every aspect of it barring abolition, which is left up to the states to decide (for now hue hue hue)

Well, here's the thing, they'll still join us because of big government and the lack of states rights and such.

The Confederate States was no more for states rights than the Union was. That is a horrendous misconception perpetuated by neo-Confederates. Yeaman is a Southerner too, and will balance the state and federal power quite evenly despite challenges from the Confederate leadership. If you gave all the power to the states, you'd have all of the Confederate States acting as independent entities waging discontinuous wars against a unified federal power that would grind the South into oblivion.

The majority of the Old South (and Texas) were almost pro-Union until Lincoln called arms after Ft. Sumter -- they weren't thrilled at abolition, but they didn't really benefit as much from it as the cotton croppers did. The Old South is unlikely to secede if the federal government gives them some compromises, namely, suspending abolition and making it an issue for the states to individually decide, and allowing those states to be neutral and not provide soldiers to the main Union army, which would be supplemented by other states like Ohio or New York.

Shouldn't Russia have Alaska? Or was the Alaska purchase moved forward in this?

'Twas moved forward.

[New Granadeseret]

Why not? Who are you going to have the civil war against, yourself?

Actually, yeah. The narrative of the CSA inevitably leads to defeat, especially when the Union is stronger in parallel to ATL, and I don't plan for Virginia and Texas to go over to the CSA when the ACW breaks out, due to the (planned) election of moderate Democratic-Republicans, whom will appease border-walkers (Virginia, Kentucky, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas) and the radicals, but still alienates hardcore southerners.

Well, actually as the OP I plan on determining the outbreak of the American Civil War, depending on how you RP up until that point. Or setting the stage for any Civil Wars really. Remember, the summery states that there are radical Northerners too, and while the Civil War will change in its makeup based on what choices are made, it's challenge will be roughly stacked up to the actual civil war.

You can't play as the CSA for now, but when we get to the point of revolt I'd assign it to you if you're playing as another nation.

Quendi:

1. Well, he IS the Spanish Prime Minister, so that section might as well become a Spanish satellite if he's put in charge of it .
2. Quendi is right: even if Napoleon liked using fancy Roman titles and regalia, handing all of Portugal over seems like an odd choice. Madrid also would have some chronic guerrilla problems during its early years, making taking over Portugal problematic at best.
--
1. Spain is going to get either the far south or north. It depends on which one he wants. I'm keeping the map blank there until he decides.

2. I'm afraid I can't allow that. The primary reason is the Ottoman Empire needs to remain strong to counteract Russian influence, and losing all of North Africa (though it's mostly an issue of Egypt) would be a huge blow to both her internal stability and income. If the Empire were weakened and the population turned against the French, there runs a real risk of Russia "sphering" them and disrupting the balance of power France needs to insure Russia is ringed with strong, French-aligned nations to prevent her from trying to taking another bite at the apple (Though, Segmentia should chime in on this).

3. I can agree to that

4. It's your Confederation, so it's your choice.

5. Denmark-Norway was already a country, and Sweden; bottled between them and Russia, would need to come to some kind of terms. I was thinking any union would be more of a Duelist structure, with a joint military, currency and customs union. After all, Sweden's branch of the Holstein-Gottorp family was about to go extinct and the nation was in political chaos: with the Danish having the upper hand one of the terms of peace could be having Frederick VI named heir to the throne of Sweden (Though keeping Sweden as a separate nation)

6. Well, the issue here is Great Britain still rules the waves, and the Portuguese and Bourbon Spaniard now have the center of their power in the New World. The standing idea I'm working with is, while France is dominate in Europe, the former members of the Coalition still put up a strong resistance in Asia and the Americas. France really can't make many demands so far as the New World is concerned beyond a White Peace, since the Imperial navy was a joke compared to the Royal one (Though this may have changed somewhat in the last 50 years; just as I'm sure the British Army has grown to better match the French threat).

I'm sticking with New Spain (And New Granada) for the Bourbons once I can work out the historical issues involved with the US.

One of the main issues is the tensions between France, Britain, and Russia: Russia doesn't like British influence in the East but similarly dislikes the Pro-French hegemony blocking her advances west. Britain hates Russia's guts and her possible threat to dominance in India and China, but also wants to break up her alliance with France to start a War of the Fifth Coalition and 'liberate' Europe. France wants the status quo, of course, since she's dominant.

[Baja California y Sonora]

I could reserve that Peruvian-esque nation? The purple one in your map draft.

[New Granadeseret]

I could reserve that Peruvian-esque nation? The purple one in your map draft.

Indeed. You have plenty of historical wiggle-room at exactly what it is.

[Baja California y Sonora]

I could reserve that Peruvian-esque nation? The purple one in your map draft.

Indeed. You have plenty of historical wiggle-room at exactly what it is.

Great. Though if the Bourbons fled to New Spain/New Granada what happened to Simon Bolivar and his revolutionaries?

[New Granadeseret]

Indeed. You have plenty of historical wiggle-room at exactly what it is.

Great. Though if the Bourbons fled to New Spain/New Granada what happened to Simon Bolivar and his revolutionaries?

He can have a field day further south or make a deal with the royals.

[Abrahammia]

Cool. OP, could you please telegram me when I can submit my CSA app?

[Neros]

I may have to leave my reservation due to conflicting schedules - I will be back to decide within the hour.

[Togeria]

I'm about to post my app.

[Togeria]

NS Name:Togeria
Nation Name:Prussia(Duchy of Prussia)
Head of State:Fredrich Willhelm IV
Head of Government:WIP
Head of Diplomacy:WIP
Territorial Claims:One rights here

Flag:Here
Demonym:Prussian
Capital:Koignsberg(later Berlin)
Currency:Reichsthlater
State/Primary Religion:Protestant, and Roman Catholic.


Government Form:
Ideology: (Political, not economic)
Foreign Policy:Prussia wishes to seize more land from Holy Rome, and create a new empire(German Empire). So basically it's imperial.
Domestic Policy: After their loss at Jena, Prussia began implementing many progressive reforms. Some of which were the abolishment of serfdom, public education, freedom of press, religious tolerance, and reorganized its army.
Civil Freedoms /10: WIP
Political Freedoms /10:WIP
Economic Freedoms /10:WIP

Military Size:
-Army:50,000-500,000
-Navy:Not big, never focused on naval power as much as sea, but still had a presence.
-Elite Forces:None

Military Description:The Prussian Army didn't have many resources, and as such focused on wars of movements to make up for it, hitting the enemy flank hard.
Strengths and Weaknesses: The Prussian army was well trained, officers taught to think for themselves on the battlefield. The army often went up against threats bigger then themselves, but triumphed.

Since they didn't have many resources they couldn't support a war of attrition, and as such weren't very adapt at siege warfare.

Short Description of Your Nation's Economy:WIP
Short Description of Your Nation's Government:WIP
Short History of the last 60 years:WIP
Population of entire empire:41,915,040