Age of Roma: 300 BCE (OOC/Signups)

[RNT]

Country: Arverni
Demonyms: Gaelic
Currency: (Barter, Iron Coin, Gold Coin, etc.) Gold coin
Name of Ruler: Kosito
Do you know where it is on the map?: yes
Population: 420, 000

In-Game Focus: The main goal is to expand and remain independent, as well as cleanse the Aedui from the world.

-101- (Keep this so I can find your app)

[Alsheb]

Is there any interesting nation that woulf be preferable for me to RP as? Prefarably somewhere in tje Middle East or Africa.

[Cartagine]

I'm not entirely sure what to make of that reply... Arabs were far from united and considering the distance between the two colonies its like extremely unlikely they would encounter the exact tribe that raided the first colony. Aside from that land taxes were never mentioned in my letter as back in those days they didn't held any real land (with the very few exeptions like Masqat and other cities in which the Arabs traded their goods and such).

You're looking far too deep into this. Of course there's going to be some simplification in Arabia, as it would be incredibly difficult to accurately represent Arabia as it was in a time before any Arab tribes were even recorded. The map I had to use for reference is from centuries later, and is, practically speaking, the best I can get. I picked particularly large and dominant tribes and used random arrows on that map to interpret the extent of their territory. You're also ignoring, though, that Bedouins had a tendency to end up grouped in larger confederations, as do most tribes. One example is how the Tanukhids and Lakhmids were part of the same grouping, though they're commonly thought of as different tribes. Even still, the dominant tribe of the region could offer protection to you in exchange for a "Land tax", that is payment or tribute for using land which is rightfully theirs. The Bedouins DID have land claims, they did have tribal territories, and you're on one. They don't migrate wherever they want on a whim, they move from pasture to pasture within their own territory as the seasons change, as do most nomads. A lack of proper cities is not a lack of land ownership, though by your own example, Masqat could be counted as one of few cities, and it is likewise the same area as your colony, practically negating the whole argument anyways.

Ofcourse i do as it affects my nation and how could i know that you simplified it to some kind of nationstates?
Anyhow yeah this screws around pretty much my entire plan, would be nice if you let me know that they just acted as nations instead of telling me they act as loose tribes.
Anyhow, as stated in the letter, there is no word of a land tax, so i still wonder how they would come up with that...
Oh, and they barely had land claims. Nomads indeed travel around as they go to the places that suit them. you name season changes, but the Arabian peninsula has barely any season changes at all, making that argument more or less invalid. And Masqat is hundreds of kilometers away from the colony i was speaking of, far removed from the Arab "highway". The one that got destroyed earlier was much closer to Masqat and therefor in danger. This one is really not that in danger as its far removed from the living world and at the entire edge of the Arabian peninsula.

If you wanted to hold any credibility with that post you should have told me on the first instance that they would act as nations, yet you stated the opposite, completely screwing around with the plans i had made considering they completely rely on the "loose tribe" matter like it was throughout 99% of pre-Islamic Arab History. Awesome action OP.... :/

[Maljaratas]

The Army isn't even gathered yet

Well when do you plan to invade then?

Sometime during summer, unless there are rumors of large movements back into the original Qin, and/or scouts report larger troop concentrations towards border areas.

[Alsheb]

I wouldn't mind playing as Kröran or Himyar, but I feel I would be almost entirely isolated from any action.

[Maljaratas]

I wouldn't mind playing as Kröran or Himyar, but I feel I would be almost entirely isolated from any action.

It gives you a free hand to expand

[Sanctissima]

I wouldn't mind playing as Kröran or Himyar, but I feel I would be almost entirely isolated from any action.

It gives you a free hand to expand

Very true, and there is someone RP'ing as the Kush/Ethiopians. You could probably interact with them until the Ptolemies and Seleucids start to get more involved in Arabia.

And I think the Maurya are doing some trade operations in and around Southern Arabia, so you could RP a bit with G-Tech too.

[Alsheb]

Fair enough. Himyar sounds interesting indeed. I believe that by this time they were not yet Jewish though, which is a shame. Playing a Jewish realm sounds like fun.

[RNT]

Any idea when my app will be reviewed no rush just wondering

[G-Tech Corporation]

It gives you a free hand to expand

Very true, and there is someone RP'ing as the Kush/Ethiopians. You could probably interact with them until the Ptolemies and Seleucids start to get more involved in Arabia.

And I think the Maurya are doing some trade operations in and around Southern Arabia, so you could RP a bit with G-Tech too.

Very true- Chandragupta is establishing trade relations and ports along the line of Arabia Felix to protect trade with the Ptolemies and the west.

[Togeria]

I'll post soon.

[Sanctissima]

Fair enough. Himyar sounds interesting indeed. I believe that by this time they were not yet Jewish though, which is a shame. Playing a Jewish realm sounds like fun.

Yeah, I think they're still Arabian pagans for now.

Shame, Jewish Arabs sounds like fun.

[Alsheb]

If possible, reserve Himyar for me then. I can't write a full app right now, but I will soon.

[Sanctissima]

If possible, reserve Himyar for me then. I can't write a full app right now, but I will soon.

I'm not a Co-Op, but I can do up a semi-app for you.

[The Ik Ka Ek Akai]

Ofcourse i do as it affects my nation and how could i know that you simplified it to some kind of nationstates?
Anyhow yeah this screws around pretty much my entire plan, would be nice if you let me know that they just acted as nations instead of telling me they act as loose tribes.
Anyhow, as stated in the letter, there is no word of a land tax, so i still wonder how they would come up with that...
Oh, and they barely had land claims. Nomads indeed travel around as they go to the places that suit them. you name season changes, but the Arabian peninsula has barely any season changes at all, making that argument more or less invalid. And Masqat is hundreds of kilometers away from the colony i was speaking of, far removed from the Arab "highway". The one that got destroyed earlier was much closer to Masqat and therefor in danger. This one is really not that in danger as its far removed from the living world and at the entire edge of the Arabian peninsula.

If you wanted to hold any credibility with that post you should have told me on the first instance that they would act as nations, yet you stated the opposite, completely screwing around with the plans i had made considering they completely rely on the "loose tribe" matter like it was throughout 99% of pre-Islamic Arab History. Awesome action OP.... :/

I am starting to wonder if you are being purposefully difficult.

Lemme break this up:

Ofcourse i do as it affects my nation and how could i know that you simplified it to some kind of nationstates?
Anyhow yeah this screws around pretty much my entire plan, would be nice if you let me know that they just acted as nations instead of telling me they act as loose tribes.

There's plenty of ways to figure it out, not the least of which being to find a tribal map of Arabia. But, regardless, the map presented to you is fairly accurate in showing regional dominance of particular tribes, as well as larger confederations. Most tribes that exist ever in any significant way are a grouping of multiple previous tribes. Also, looking too deep into something is not good. It means you are overanalyzing something with a simple solution, in this case being that tribes don't mingle their territory, and so encountering the same tribe on the same land is actually fairly likely.

Also, I never stated that they were nationstates (in which case, Arabia would be a single country), nor was it ever stated, implied, or otherwise made a thing that they acted differently than any other tribe.

Anyhow, as stated in the letter, there is no word of a land tax, so i still wonder how they would come up with that...

Did you even read my full reply?

Even still, the dominant tribe of the region could offer protection to you in exchange for a "Land tax", that is payment or tribute for using land which is rightfully theirs. The Bedouins DID have land claims, they did have tribal territories, and you're on one.

Oh, and they barely had land claims. Nomads indeed travel around as they go to the places that suit them. you name season changes, but the Arabian peninsula has barely any season changes at all, making that argument more or less invalid.

Believe it or not, there are highlands in Arabia, and these highlands do get snow. Here's a picture from Saudi Arabia. Also, stating that nomads migrate willy-nilly is incredibly wrong, and could even be considered offensive. Actual nomads, as in those that live in reality, have tribal territories that they will stick to. Not only this, but they migrate from pasture to pasture in a fairly predictable manner. A flock of sheep is no good in the middle of the damn desert where there's no food, and a more-or-less static climate does not mean that seasons don't exist, it means they are less dramatic than in a temperate climate. A pasture will still spurt new grass around the same time each year, and pastoral nomads (It's in the name) migrate to and from these accordingly.

I also fail to see how it invalidates the argument. Whether or not they migrate, they still own the land and you are still on it.

And Masqat is hundreds of kilometers away from the colony i was speaking of, far removed from the Arab "highway". The one that got destroyed earlier was much closer to Masqat and therefor in danger. This one is really not that in danger as its far removed from the living world and at the entire edge of the Arabian peninsula.

The raided colony was, in your own words:

north Masqat

and you sent a letter to:

one of the larger tribes moving around in the south-east of the Arab mainland.

if you did not notice, the Banu Uman are not only the ONLY tribe in southeast Arabia according to the RP map, but also historical maps as well.

You are using circular logic pointlessly. I answered your problems, and you simply seemed to ignore the answers.

Also, there's no evidence that Dilmun had any cultural or ethnic connection to the Assyrians. The only possible connection is that they're both Semitic, but that's about as general as saying the Irish and the Russians are the same people. Nobody even called them Dilmun anymore after Babylon fell some two hundred years prior to the start date of the rp.

[The Ik Ka Ek Akai]

Country: Arverni
Demonyms: Gaelic
Currency: (Barter, Iron Coin, Gold Coin, etc.) Gold coin
Name of Ruler: Kosito
Do you know where it is on the map?: yes
Population: 420, 000

In-Game Focus: The main goal is to expand and remain independent, as well as cleanse the Aedui from the world.

-101- (Keep this so I can find your app)

Gaels and Gauls are not the same people, though there is some confusion between the two. Gaels are the Celts native to Ireland (later migrating partially to Scotland), while the Gauls are the Celts outside of the British Isles. The demonym would also be "Arverni".

If possible, reserve Himyar for me then. I can't write a full app right now, but I will soon.

Reserved.

[Arulean States]

Edited the old post, and posted a new one, which is a WIP. Sorry that I can't post much, put as of next week, I should be free and clear.

[Alsheb]

Country: Himyar
Demonyms: Himyarite
Currency: Gold coin
Name of Ruler: Still looking it up
Do you know where it is on the map?: Around present-day Sana'a, Yemen
Population: Still looking it up

In-Game Focus: Expand around the Gulf of Aden and become an important hub on the sea route from Africa to India

-101- (Keep this so I can find your app)

[The Ik Ka Ek Akai]

Country: Himyar
Demonyms: Himyarite
Currency: Gold coin
Name of Ruler: Still looking it up
Do you know where it is on the map?: Around present-day Sana'a, Yemen
Population: Still looking it up

In-Game Focus: Expand around the Gulf of Aden and become an important hub on the sea route from Africa to India

-101- (Keep this so I can find your app)

The capital of Himyar is Zafar. There are some mapping difficulties representing the distinction between Himyar and Sabaea, the latter of which theoretically holds Sana'a.

Also, the ruler doesn't have to be historical.

Here's a nice list of Himyarite names to pick from.

[Cartagine]

Ofcourse i do as it affects my nation and how could i know that you simplified it to some kind of nationstates?
Anyhow yeah this screws around pretty much my entire plan, would be nice if you let me know that they just acted as nations instead of telling me they act as loose tribes.
Anyhow, as stated in the letter, there is no word of a land tax, so i still wonder how they would come up with that...
Oh, and they barely had land claims. Nomads indeed travel around as they go to the places that suit them. you name season changes, but the Arabian peninsula has barely any season changes at all, making that argument more or less invalid. And Masqat is hundreds of kilometers away from the colony i was speaking of, far removed from the Arab "highway". The one that got destroyed earlier was much closer to Masqat and therefor in danger. This one is really not that in danger as its far removed from the living world and at the entire edge of the Arabian peninsula.

If you wanted to hold any credibility with that post you should have told me on the first instance that they would act as nations, yet you stated the opposite, completely screwing around with the plans i had made considering they completely rely on the "loose tribe" matter like it was throughout 99% of pre-Islamic Arab History. Awesome action OP.... :/

I am starting to wonder if you are being purposefully difficult.

Lemme break this up:

Ofcourse i do as it affects my nation and how could i know that you simplified it to some kind of nationstates?
Anyhow yeah this screws around pretty much my entire plan, would be nice if you let me know that they just acted as nations instead of telling me they act as loose tribes.

There's plenty of ways to figure it out, not the least of which being to find a tribal map of Arabia. But, regardless, the map presented to you is fairly accurate in showing regional dominance of particular tribes, as well as larger confederations. Most tribes that exist ever in any significant way are a grouping of multiple previous tribes. Also, looking too deep into something is not good. It means you are overanalyzing something with a simple solution, in this case being that tribes don't mingle their territory, and so encountering the same tribe on the same land is actually fairly likely.

Also, I never stated that they were nationstates (in which case, Arabia would be a single country), nor was it ever stated, implied, or otherwise made a thing that they acted differently than any other tribe.

Anyhow, as stated in the letter, there is no word of a land tax, so i still wonder how they would come up with that...

Did you even read my full reply?

Even still, the dominant tribe of the region could offer protection to you in exchange for a "Land tax", that is payment or tribute for using land which is rightfully theirs. The Bedouins DID have land claims, they did have tribal territories, and you're on one.

Oh, and they barely had land claims. Nomads indeed travel around as they go to the places that suit them. you name season changes, but the Arabian peninsula has barely any season changes at all, making that argument more or less invalid.

Believe it or not, there are highlands in Arabia, and these highlands do get snow. Here's a picture from Saudi Arabia. Also, stating that nomads migrate willy-nilly is incredibly wrong, and could even be considered offensive. Actual nomads, as in those that live in reality, have tribal territories that they will stick to. Not only this, but they migrate from pasture to pasture in a fairly predictable manner. A flock of sheep is no good in the middle of the damn desert where there's no food, and a more-or-less static climate does not mean that seasons don't exist, it means they are less dramatic than in a temperate climate. A pasture will still spurt new grass around the same time each year, and pastoral nomads (It's in the name) migrate to and from these accordingly.

I also fail to see how it invalidates the argument. Whether or not they migrate, they still own the land and you are still on it.

And Masqat is hundreds of kilometers away from the colony i was speaking of, far removed from the Arab "highway". The one that got destroyed earlier was much closer to Masqat and therefor in danger. This one is really not that in danger as its far removed from the living world and at the entire edge of the Arabian peninsula.

The raided colony was, in your own words:

north Masqat

and you sent a letter to:

one of the larger tribes moving around in the south-east of the Arab mainland.

if you did not notice, the Banu Uman are not only the ONLY tribe in southeast Arabia according to the RP map, but also historical maps as well.

You are using circular logic pointlessly. I answered your problems, and you simply seemed to ignore the answers.

Also, there's no evidence that Dilmun had any cultural or ethnic connection to the Assyrians. The only possible connection is that they're both Semitic, but that's about as general as saying the Irish and the Russians are the same people. Nobody even called them Dilmun anymore after Babylon fell some two hundred years prior to the start date of the rp.

Ofcourse i am.

1) Its good, it brings quality and detail to a roleplay, that's why i asked earlier through a TG wether the Arabs were to be RP'ed as nations or seperate tribes, something you simply lied about, a thing i do take personally. Encountering the same tribe would be possible yes, if it wasn't a hundred kilometers away a few days or a week earlier in desert land, not to mention that they wouldn't even know who they raided earlier.

2) I did, and i still don't get any of it. I might aswell just throw my entire offer away. Really, free food and one would still demand money? In Arabia?

3) Oh wow, snow, shocker...
And in what way do they own it exactly? Its a wasteland where the colony is located, far from any civilization including any tribes as there's nothing in the area but sea and sand.

4) Please take a look at the colony map i included in an earlier post, come back after that.

5) except that they clearly weren't as Masqat was a port, town, city. If there was only one tribe it would be Masqat, which ofcourse wasn't a tribe at all.

6) They do. Dilmun was a name referring to Bahrain, an Island group held by Assyria for many years untill ~600BC when it was abandoned. So yes, its extremely likely that they do have all connections to Assyria.

I honestly, don't care about this entire argument, the thing i care about is that you lied, something that does offend me and something i do take personally. And honestly, at this point i'm not even in the mood to continue this RP anymore.

[The Ik Ka Ek Akai]

I am starting to wonder if you are being purposefully difficult.

Lemme break this up:


There's plenty of ways to figure it out, not the least of which being to find a tribal map of Arabia. But, regardless, the map presented to you is fairly accurate in showing regional dominance of particular tribes, as well as larger confederations. Most tribes that exist ever in any significant way are a grouping of multiple previous tribes. Also, looking too deep into something is not good. It means you are overanalyzing something with a simple solution, in this case being that tribes don't mingle their territory, and so encountering the same tribe on the same land is actually fairly likely.

Also, I never stated that they were nationstates (in which case, Arabia would be a single country), nor was it ever stated, implied, or otherwise made a thing that they acted differently than any other tribe.



Did you even read my full reply?





Believe it or not, there are highlands in Arabia, and these highlands do get snow. Here's a picture from Saudi Arabia. Also, stating that nomads migrate willy-nilly is incredibly wrong, and could even be considered offensive. Actual nomads, as in those that live in reality, have tribal territories that they will stick to. Not only this, but they migrate from pasture to pasture in a fairly predictable manner. A flock of sheep is no good in the middle of the damn desert where there's no food, and a more-or-less static climate does not mean that seasons don't exist, it means they are less dramatic than in a temperate climate. A pasture will still spurt new grass around the same time each year, and pastoral nomads (It's in the name) migrate to and from these accordingly.

I also fail to see how it invalidates the argument. Whether or not they migrate, they still own the land and you are still on it.



The raided colony was, in your own words:


and you sent a letter to:


if you did not notice, the Banu Uman are not only the ONLY tribe in southeast Arabia according to the RP map, but also historical maps as well.

You are using circular logic pointlessly. I answered your problems, and you simply seemed to ignore the answers.

Also, there's no evidence that Dilmun had any cultural or ethnic connection to the Assyrians. The only possible connection is that they're both Semitic, but that's about as general as saying the Irish and the Russians are the same people. Nobody even called them Dilmun anymore after Babylon fell some two hundred years prior to the start date of the rp.

Ofcourse i am.

1) Its good, it brings quality and detail to a roleplay, that's why i asked earlier through a TG wether the Arabs were to be RP'ed as nations or seperate tribes, something you simply lied about, a thing i do take personally. Encountering the same tribe would be possible yes, if it wasn't a hundred kilometers away a few days or a week earlier in desert land, not to mention that they wouldn't even know who they raided earlier.

2) I did, and i still don't get any of it. I might aswell just throw my entire offer away. Really, free food and one would still demand money? In Arabia?

3) Oh wow, snow, shocker...
And in what way do they own it exactly? Its a wasteland where the colony is located, far from any civilization including any tribes as there's nothing in the area but sea and sand.

4) Please take a look at the colony map i included in an earlier post, come back after that.

5) except that they clearly weren't as Masqat was a port, town, city. If there was only one tribe it would be Masqat, which ofcourse wasn't a tribe at all.

6) They do. Dilmun was a name referring to Bahrain, an Island group held by Assyria for many years untill ~600BC when it was abandoned. So yes, its extremely likely that they do have all connections to Assyria.

I honestly, don't care about this entire argument, the thing i care about is that you lied, something that does offend me and something i do take personally. And honestly, at this point i'm not even in the mood to continue this RP anymore.

1) OH NO YOU DON'T. That screencap there is EVIDENCE that you did NOT ask anything, but simply went off of the assumption of them acting as loose tribes. I responded with this:

Separately as tribes. The Bedouins did not identify with each other until around the 1950's. They're pastoral nomads, so resistance is likely to be delayed until they notice you, at which point you can expect attempts at raiding.

This does NOT give any sort of justification to the "loose tribes" proposal you put forth. They behave exactly like they exist on the map, and your question appeared to be aimed at the Arabs as a whole, rather than a specific tribe. I stated they would not collectively provide resistance, and there is no indication that settling in the lands of the Banu Uman would get you resistance from a different tribe, actually contrary, it states that you will be dealing with the very tribe you are settling in.

Also, as to them being so far apart, IT SAYS RIGHT THERE THAT ITS THE SAME TRIBE. It's a larger nation, not a small band of a few hundred. This is also disregarding the "loot exchange" which Arabs tended to do, in which they would have a nice, well, loot exchange within the tribe, and also the prestige of raiding foreigners, and also the simple fact that these tribes are not isolated from each other. As it turns out, people who know other people exist interact with other people, so even if this nation was split up into a bunch of tiny tribes, word would almost certainly spread, and you are also completely ignoring what I said about the dominant tribe offering protection. Like, say, gang fights, there will be smaller gangs and the mafia, and nobody messes with the mafia except other mafias of equal strength, represented as dominant tribes holding other pieces of land.

I will not be branded a liar.

2)

To the Satrap of Ashuristan,

We, the Malik of the Banu Uman accept your humble offer. Under the watchful gaze of the gods, and with the authority of the holy ibex, we consecrate this alliance if you keep to your word.

What is not clear about this? It states "We accept your humble offer" and "If you keep your word". The only way to be more direct would to be simply to remove any sort of "artsy" language and simply reply:

Yes.

3) Is that sarcasm? You said they didn't have seasons, and I disproved that, alongside mentioning the lack of need for temperate-style seasons due to seasonal growth of plants.

How do they own it? Like anyone else owns land. Mongolia has land, does it not? Is Mongolia not a country because it has a largely nomadic population? Trying to say the Bedouins don't own their land is the same, in essence, as saying that the Mongol Empire, various Turkic khanates, and groups like the Apache never existed and never had territory because they were nomads in relatively non-fertile land.

4) Thanks for encouraging me to look. According to your map, even though a single colony was raided, that still leaves two in the Banu Uman. As you stated, as mentioned previously, that the region of interest was the southernmost colony, this leaves it in the same tribe's territory.

5) I don't know how to convince you about this. You are arguing against a historical map by saying that a tribe having a port changes all the rules of everything, even though the historical map would disagree.

6) Let me put this into perspective:

The Caliphate held territory in Pakistan. Are Pakistanis to be considered the same ethnicity as Saudis? What about Moroccans? Spaniards? Greeks? All these were under the Caliphate for extended periods of time, yet are not the same people.

In the case of Bahrain, we actually know what they were like. Tylos, the name given to it by the Greeks, was a Hellenized Arab nation, wherein Aramaic was a common language and Greek was sometimes used by the nobility. A variant of Zeus was worshipped as the Arabian sun god al-Shams. This is a pretty far stretch from the Assyrians, who although spoke Aramaic, had (and still have) an entirely different identity, culture, and religion. Bahrain, as Dilmun, had as much connection to the Assyrians as it did to the Indus Valley civilization. Simply being a trade stop does not make it part of the ethnicity.

I am frankly offended you think I do not know what Dilmun is. The simple fact is that "Dilmun" stops being mentioned after the fall of Babylon. Later Arabs gave it the name Awal, with "Bahrain" referring to the entirety of East Arabia.

I have done my research extensively. I have the TGs in my inbox to show our conversations. This is all information that is not at all hard to find, and seems to stem from an overall lack of research.

A few other discrepencies include:

Babylon does not have a harbor or port. It is in the middle of Iraq, and Cyrus the Great diverted the river on which it was sustained.

Babylon was hardly a prominent city in 300 BCE, having fallen far from what it used to be. Under Alexander's rule, it experienced somewhat of a rebirth, though after his death is once again quickly declined to the point that around 275 BCE, it was completely abandoned as the last inhabitants moved to Seleucia.

5 colonies in 3 months? I'm sorry, but that's stretching it a bit. Even without the massive distance to cross as happened in the Atlantic, colonies do not grow quickly.

---

Look, you can pump out a nice post, but there are certainly limits, and I'm starting to wonder now if I've been to lenient on the general situation as a whole.

[Jaslandia]

Fourth IC post is up. Included are: continuing conversation with Seleucid diplomats, arrival of 15,000-strong army in Thebes to put down the Kemet rebels, and Paphos has surrendered to the Ptolemies after a blockade.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Blerg. Motivation for IC post just isn't there right now, might be a bit of a delay.

[Torrocca]

Well, I got exams the whole rest of the week. ._.

I'll get a post up Saturday, probably.

[The Ik Ka Ek Akai]

Okay, everyone, I will be here to address issues, but I will not be posting tonight to allow my mood to level.