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Hathradic States
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 29895
Founded: Mar 26, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Hathradic States » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:07 pm

Kouralia wrote:
Hathradic States wrote:And if chaos is to come, the National Imperialist-Freedom Party will gain offensive capability, and support to the Monarchist as they work to destroy the communist militias.

If chaos is to come, then you will be proven to be the spineless and moral-less dogs you purport to not be.

(OOC: last one, I confused your paramilitary with this one, I think: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=237955 )

And you will be a red stain on the street.

(OOC: No, that's ours)

Liberals: Honestly I was wrong bout em.
I swear I'm not as terrible as you remember.
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Final text here.

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Imperiatom
Minister
 
Posts: 2416
Founded: Mar 03, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Imperiatom » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:08 pm

Great Nepal wrote:
Imperiatom wrote:
It is a definition of what a concealed gun is not a law. If you take your approach then we need to re-write the dictionary.

It is from a real life law, which you are suggesting we just copy and paste. If we do that for that, why not do that for every other act? Plus, what is wrong with using word "reasonable" anyway.


Not the law just the definition. The word reasonable is subjective, this definition is not.

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Kouralia
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Posts: 15140
Founded: Oct 30, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kouralia » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:10 pm

Hathradic States wrote:
Kouralia wrote:If chaos is to come, then you will be proven to be the spineless and moral-less dogs you purport to not be.

(OOC: last one, I confused your paramilitary with this one, I think: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=237955 )

And you will be a red stain on the street.

(OOC: No, that's ours)

(OOC: it's five times the size of ours, then.)

The USLP announces hereby that it is doing everything it can, to the detriment of the safety of its members, to ensure that no civil war erupts. The fact that the oppressive fascists only creep closer and closer shows that they are the untrustworthy ones.
Kouralia:

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Hathradic States
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Posts: 29895
Founded: Mar 26, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Hathradic States » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:11 pm

Kouralia wrote:
Hathradic States wrote:And you will be a red stain on the street.

(OOC: No, that's ours)

(OOC: it's five times the size of ours, then.)

The USLP announces hereby that it is doing everything it can, to the detriment of the safety of its members, to ensure that no civil war erupts. The fact that the oppressive fascists only creep closer and closer shows that they are the untrustworthy ones.

The NIFP assures the Senate we are not attempting to engage in hostile activities. Only that we will retailiate if need be.

Liberals: Honestly I was wrong bout em.
I swear I'm not as terrible as you remember.
Sadly Proven Right in 2016
Final text here.

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Imperiatom
Minister
 
Posts: 2416
Founded: Mar 03, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Imperiatom » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:12 pm

Priory Academy USSR wrote:
Imperiatom wrote:
Having to pass an act wastes time. Whats wrong with using the yearly budget to allocate funds anyway. One does not squirrel budgetary allocation in 100's of bills but has a single yearly budget that is decided on each year.


5% of the budget is a considerable amount, especially if our nation has roughly 50-60 million people (as I believe one Senator suggested) and we're not poor. Any further expansion of that would have to be for a real reason that the Senate would support.


No like i said the UK armed forces need more than that and they are not a large force.They need about 10% of our budget. I don't want US sized military but a UK sized force is reasonable. At 5% our army would be hopelessly under equipped, we would be guilty of sending our soldiers to their deaths. It takes more than 1 day to build a jet plane or a tank.

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Kouralia
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Posts: 15140
Founded: Oct 30, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kouralia » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:14 pm

Hathradic States wrote:
Kouralia wrote:(OOC: it's five times the size of ours, then.)

The USLP announces hereby that it is doing everything it can, to the detriment of the safety of its members, to ensure that no civil war erupts. The fact that the oppressive fascists only creep closer and closer shows that they are the untrustworthy ones.

The NIFP assures the Senate we are not attempting to engage in hostile activities. Only that we will retailiate if need be.

The USLP has never strayed from a position similar to the one the NIFP claims to adopt now, despite maintaining the threats of symmetrical conflict.
Kouralia:

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Trotskylvania
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Posts: 17217
Founded: Jul 07, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Trotskylvania » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:14 pm

National Security Act
Urgency: Paramount | Sponsor: Trotskylvania


Findings and Policies

§ 1: As a fledgling nation, Aurentina has faced problems with national identity. With a divided electorate, and a number of legitimate concerns arising over the growth of partisan and other militias in the country, it is paramount that as part of organizing a government, the security of the people of the nation is protected.

While external threats have been minimal, and as of yet there is no evidence to suggest that the various militias intend an armed putsch against the government, their existence highlights another problem. Presently, law enforcement and security are the responsibility of local communities. Local police are increasingly inadequate in a highly mobile, globalized society.

Establishment of executive authority

§ 2: (a) A Ministry of Justice shall be established, under the aegis of the Council of Ministers, headed by a Minister of Justice.
(1) This act shall not abridge the right of local communities to establish their own police forces; However:
(2) The Ministry of Justice shall be responsible for implementing national policy regarding criminal justice (including but not limited to prosecution, public defense, incarceration, and rehabilitation), and regulating the conduct of both the National Police Force as established under Section 3, and the various local police forces.
(3) The Ministry of Justice shall be responsible for regulating the conduct of partisan militias according to law enacted by the Senate.

(b) A Ministry of Defense shall be established, under the aegis of the Council of Ministers, headed by a Minister of Defense.
(1) Nothing in this authorization shall be understood to conflict with the prerogative, established under the Republican Executive Act, of the President to act as commander-in-chief of the nation's armed forces.
(2) The Ministry of Defense shall be responsible for implementing defense policy regarding the uniformed armed forces established under Section 4, as enacted by the Council of Ministers.

National Police

§ 3: (a) The National Police Force [NPF] shall be established to protect against breaches of the peace, protect public safety and enforce criminal law.
(1) The NPF shall be governed by a Public Safety Commission appointed by the Ministry of Justice.
(2) Hiring for the NPF shall be conducted by a non-partisan Civil Service Commission, hereby established by this act as an independent government agency under the supervision of the Council of Ministers and the Senate.

(b) This act authorizes NPF to have universal jurisdiction over the entire nation, as well as any embassies established on foreign soil. As per this law, local police forces are required to cooperate with the NPF, and all matters that involve multiple local jurisdictions shall be the primary responsibility of the NPF.

National Defense Force

§ 4: (a) The National Defense Force (NDF) shall be established to protect against foreign invasion and insurrection.
(1) The NDF shall be divided into an Army, Navy, and Air Force.
(2) The NDF shall be an all volunteer military, and no provision of this act shall allow conscription except during times of war. Conscription may only be authorized by Senate resolution during times when a state of war has been declared.
(3) The NDF shall not be used for domestic law enforcement except upon the declaration of a national state of emergency by the Senate.
(4) NDF personnel shall not be quartered in private homes without the consent of the occupants.
(5) The NDF is presently authorized to hold a maximum strength of 200,000 uniformed officers and enlisted persons.




tl;dr : Something more important than whether or not we have private militias.
Last edited by Trotskylvania on Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Priory Academy USSR
Senator
 
Posts: 4833
Founded: May 04, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Priory Academy USSR » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:14 pm

Imperiatom wrote:
Priory Academy USSR wrote:
5% of the budget is a considerable amount, especially if our nation has roughly 50-60 million people (as I believe one Senator suggested) and we're not poor. Any further expansion of that would have to be for a real reason that the Senate would support.


No like i said the UK armed forces need more than that and they are not a large force.They need about 10% of our budget. I don't want US sized military but a UK sized force is reasonable. At 5% our army would be hopelessly under equipped, we would be guilty of sending our soldiers to their deaths. It takes more than 1 day to build a jet plane or a tank.


Britain currently operates on half of that.

While it does need a slight raise, there is no reason why the budget should go over 5%: it would just harm the economy in the long run for a military force we don't need.
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Hathradic States
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Posts: 29895
Founded: Mar 26, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Hathradic States » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:15 pm

Kouralia wrote:
Hathradic States wrote:The NIFP assures the Senate we are not attempting to engage in hostile activities. Only that we will retailiate if need be.

The USLP has never strayed from a position similar to the one the NIFP claims to adopt now, despite maintaining the threats of symmetrical conflict.

The NIFP has had enough of this stupidity. If the communist wish to talk, they can talk to us in the streets. Goodday.

Liberals: Honestly I was wrong bout em.
I swear I'm not as terrible as you remember.
Sadly Proven Right in 2016
Final text here.

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Mollary
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1616
Founded: Nov 18, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Mollary » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:16 pm

Priory Academy USSR wrote:
Imperiatom wrote:
No like i said the UK armed forces need more than that and they are not a large force.They need about 10% of our budget. I don't want US sized military but a UK sized force is reasonable. At 5% our army would be hopelessly under equipped, we would be guilty of sending our soldiers to their deaths. It takes more than 1 day to build a jet plane or a tank.


Britain currently operates on half of that.

While it does need a slight raise, there is no reason why the budget should go over 5%: it would just harm the economy in the long run for a military force we don't need.

Unless the militias start to cause trouble.
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Irredento
Envoy
 
Posts: 313
Founded: Mar 05, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Irredento » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:16 pm

Kouralia wrote:
Hathradic States wrote:And if chaos is to come, the National Imperialist-Freedom Party will gain offensive capability, and support to the Monarchist as they work to destroy the communist militias.

If chaos is to come, then you will be proven to be the spineless and moral-less dogs you purport to not be.

(OOC: last one, I confused your paramilitary with this one, I think: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=237955 )

Should you force our hand, we will not hesitate to defend ourselves with the help of the National Imperialist-Freedom Party and all other anti-communists who wish to join us. You will not drag our nation into communist tyranny at gunpoint and, should you try, you will soon find our flag flying over the USLP headquarters. For the last time, I suggest that you cease with your threats and disband your militia before things get that bad.

As before, however, we still support the anti-paramilitary act as it will allow us to avoid the bloodshed that will otherwise be necessary to cleanse our streets.

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Fulflood
Diplomat
 
Posts: 645
Founded: Dec 01, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Fulflood » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:16 pm

Trotskylvania wrote:
National Security Act
Urgency: Paramount | Sponsor: Trotskylvania


National Defense Force

§ 4: (a) The National Defense Force (NDF) shall be established to protect against foreign invasion and insurrection.
(1) The NDF shall be divided into an Army, Navy, and Air Force.
(2) The NDF shall be an all volunteer military, and no provision of this act shall allow conscription except during times of war. Conscription may only be authorized by Senate resolution during times when a state of war has been declared.
(3) The NDF shall not be used for domestic law enforcement except upon the declaration of a national state of emergency by the Senate.
(4) NDF personnel shall not be quartered in private homes without the consent of the occupants.
(5) The NDF is presently authorized to hold a maximum strength of 200,000 uniformed officers and enlisted men.




And women too, I hope.
Last edited by Fulflood on Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Admin, New Democrat member for Lüborg (504) and ambassador to the Red-Greens in the Aurentine Senate. Minister of Business Safety of Aurentina. Apparently that deserves a ministry, but I'm not complaining. I'm probably none of these things anymore. | The Aurentine Phrasebook, my magnum opus.

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Beta Test
Minister
 
Posts: 2639
Founded: Jan 06, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Beta Test » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:17 pm

Trotskylvania wrote:
National Security Act
Urgency: Paramount | Sponsor: Trotskylvania


Findings and Policies

§ 1: As a fledgling nation, Aurentina has faced problems with national identity. With a divided electorate, and a number of legitimate concerns arising over the growth of partisan and other militias in the country, it is paramount that as part of organizing a government, the security of the people of the nation is protected.

While external threats have been minimal, and as of yet there is no evidence to suggest that the various militias intend an armed putsch against the government, their existence highlights another problem. Presently, law enforcement and security are the responsibility of local communities. Local police are increasingly inadequate in a highly mobile, globalized society.

Establishment of executive authority

§ 2: (a) A Ministry of Justice shall be established, under the aegis of the Council of Ministers, headed by a Minister of Justice.
(1) This act shall not abridge the right of local communities to establish their own police forces; However:
(2) The Ministry of Justice shall be responsible for implementing national policy regarding criminal justice (including but not limited to prosecution, public defense, incarceration, and rehabilitation), and regulating the conduct of both the National Police Force as established under Section 3, and the various local police forces.
(3) The Ministry of Justice shall be responsible for regulating the conduct of partisan militias according to law enacted by the Senate.

(b) A Ministry of Defense shall be established, under the aegis of the Council of Ministers, headed by a Minister of Defense.
(1) Nothing in this authorization shall be understood to conflict with the prerogative, established under the Republican Executive Act, of the President to act as commander-in-chief of the nation's armed forces.
(2) The Ministry of Defense shall be responsible for implementing defense policy regarding the uniformed armed forces established under Section 4, as enacted by the Council of Ministers.

National Police

§ 3: (a) The National Police Force [NPF] shall be established to protect against breaches of the peace, protect public safety and enforce criminal law.
(1) The NPF shall be governed by a Public Safety Commission appointed by the Ministry of Justice.
(2) Hiring for the NPF shall be conducted by a non-partisan Civil Service Commission, hereby established by this act as an independent government agency under the supervision of the Council of Ministers and the Senate.

(b) This act authorizes NPF to have universal jurisdiction over the entire nation, as well as any embassies established on foreign soil. As per this law, local police forces are required to cooperate with the NPF, and all matters that involve multiple local jurisdictions shall be the primary responsibility of the NPF.

National Defense Force

§ 4: (a) The National Defense Force (NDF) shall be established to protect against foreign invasion and insurrection.
(1) The NDF shall be divided into an Army, Navy, and Air Force.
(2) The NDF shall be an all volunteer military, and no provision of this act shall allow conscription except during times of war. Conscription may only be authorized by Senate resolution during times when a state of war has been declared.
(3) The NDF shall not be used for domestic law enforcement except upon the declaration of a national state of emergency by the Senate.
(4) NDF personnel shall not be quartered in private homes without the consent of the occupants.
(5) The NDF is presently authorized to hold a maximum strength of 200,000 uniformed officers and enlisted men.




tl;dr : Something more important than whether or not we have private militias.




I second this.
Member of the Coalition of Workers and Farmers
Michael Ferreira: President of the Senate
Philip Awad: Former Secretary of Rural Development

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Trotskylvania
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17217
Founded: Jul 07, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Trotskylvania » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:17 pm

Fulflood wrote:
Trotskylvania wrote:
National Security Act
Urgency: Paramount | Sponsor: Trotskylvania


National Defense Force

§ 4: (a) The National Defense Force (NDF) shall be established to protect against foreign invasion and insurrection.
(1) The NDF shall be divided into an Army, Navy, and Air Force.
(2) The NDF shall be an all volunteer military, and no provision of this act shall allow conscription except during times of war. Conscription may only be authorized by Senate resolution during times when a state of war has been declared.
(3) The NDF shall not be used for domestic law enforcement except upon the declaration of a national state of emergency by the Senate.
(4) NDF personnel shall not be quartered in private homes without the consent of the occupants.
(5) The NDF is presently authorized to hold a maximum strength of 200,000 uniformed officers and enlisted men.




And women too, I hope.

Fixed. That was embarrassing.
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Kouralia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15140
Founded: Oct 30, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kouralia » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:18 pm

Irredento wrote:
Kouralia wrote:If chaos is to come, then you will be proven to be the spineless and moral-less dogs you purport to not be.

(OOC: last one, I confused your paramilitary with this one, I think: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=237955 )

Should you force our hand, we will not hesitate to defend ourselves with the help of the National Imperialist-Freedom Party and all other anti-communists who wish to join us. You will not drag our nation into communist tyranny at gunpoint and, should you try, you will soon find our flag flying over the USLP headquarters. For the last time, I suggest that you cease with your threats and disband your militia before things get that bad.

As before, however, we still support the anti-paramilitary act as it will allow us to avoid the bloodshed that will otherwise be necessary to cleanse our streets.

The USLP refuses to be cowed by the offensive and disgusting rhetoric of the Right-wing nut-jobs. The safety of the party's supporters will not be compromised on the whim of those plainly too maddened with lust for power to deal with the responsibilities. No offensive act will be taken, however.
Kouralia:

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Priory Academy USSR
Senator
 
Posts: 4833
Founded: May 04, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Priory Academy USSR » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:18 pm

Mollary wrote:
Priory Academy USSR wrote:
Britain currently operates on half of that.

While it does need a slight raise, there is no reason why the budget should go over 5%: it would just harm the economy in the long run for a military force we don't need.

Unless the militias start to cause trouble.


The militias don't have one of the biggest military budgets in the world (if the economic situation is similar to that of the UK), or about 100,000 fully trained combat troops at any one time: they'd be more busy fighting each other anyway. I think we're fine with limiting it to 5%.
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Demphor
Senator
 
Posts: 3528
Founded: Jun 03, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Demphor » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:18 pm

Beta Test wrote:
Trotskylvania wrote:
National Security Act
Urgency: Paramount | Sponsor: Trotskylvania


Findings and Policies

§ 1: As a fledgling nation, Aurentina has faced problems with national identity. With a divided electorate, and a number of legitimate concerns arising over the growth of partisan and other militias in the country, it is paramount that as part of organizing a government, the security of the people of the nation is protected.

While external threats have been minimal, and as of yet there is no evidence to suggest that the various militias intend an armed putsch against the government, their existence highlights another problem. Presently, law enforcement and security are the responsibility of local communities. Local police are increasingly inadequate in a highly mobile, globalized society.

Establishment of executive authority

§ 2: (a) A Ministry of Justice shall be established, under the aegis of the Council of Ministers, headed by a Minister of Justice.
(1) This act shall not abridge the right of local communities to establish their own police forces; However:
(2) The Ministry of Justice shall be responsible for implementing national policy regarding criminal justice (including but not limited to prosecution, public defense, incarceration, and rehabilitation), and regulating the conduct of both the National Police Force as established under Section 3, and the various local police forces.
(3) The Ministry of Justice shall be responsible for regulating the conduct of partisan militias according to law enacted by the Senate.

(b) A Ministry of Defense shall be established, under the aegis of the Council of Ministers, headed by a Minister of Defense.
(1) Nothing in this authorization shall be understood to conflict with the prerogative, established under the Republican Executive Act, of the President to act as commander-in-chief of the nation's armed forces.
(2) The Ministry of Defense shall be responsible for implementing defense policy regarding the uniformed armed forces established under Section 4, as enacted by the Council of Ministers.

National Police

§ 3: (a) The National Police Force [NPF] shall be established to protect against breaches of the peace, protect public safety and enforce criminal law.
(1) The NPF shall be governed by a Public Safety Commission appointed by the Ministry of Justice.
(2) Hiring for the NPF shall be conducted by a non-partisan Civil Service Commission, hereby established by this act as an independent government agency under the supervision of the Council of Ministers and the Senate.

(b) This act authorizes NPF to have universal jurisdiction over the entire nation, as well as any embassies established on foreign soil. As per this law, local police forces are required to cooperate with the NPF, and all matters that involve multiple local jurisdictions shall be the primary responsibility of the NPF.

National Defense Force

§ 4: (a) The National Defense Force (NDF) shall be established to protect against foreign invasion and insurrection.
(1) The NDF shall be divided into an Army, Navy, and Air Force.
(2) The NDF shall be an all volunteer military, and no provision of this act shall allow conscription except during times of war. Conscription may only be authorized by Senate resolution during times when a state of war has been declared.
(3) The NDF shall not be used for domestic law enforcement except upon the declaration of a national state of emergency by the Senate.
(4) NDF personnel shall not be quartered in private homes without the consent of the occupants.
(5) The NDF is presently authorized to hold a maximum strength of 200,000 uniformed officers and enlisted men.




tl;dr : Something more important than whether or not we have private militias.




I second this.


Thirded
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Imperiatom
Minister
 
Posts: 2416
Founded: Mar 03, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Imperiatom » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:18 pm

Priory Academy USSR wrote:
Imperiatom wrote:
No like i said the UK armed forces need more than that and they are not a large force.They need about 10% of our budget. I don't want US sized military but a UK sized force is reasonable. At 5% our army would be hopelessly under equipped, we would be guilty of sending our soldiers to their deaths. It takes more than 1 day to build a jet plane or a tank.


Britain currently operates on half of that.

While it does need a slight raise, there is no reason why the budget should go over 5%: it would just harm the economy in the long run for a military force we don't need.


Right so a successful armaments industry is useless to the economy :blink: Pull the other one.

That is also GDP % not TAX revernue %.
Last edited by Imperiatom on Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Priory Academy USSR
Senator
 
Posts: 4833
Founded: May 04, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Priory Academy USSR » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:18 pm

Beta Test wrote:
Trotskylvania wrote:
National Security Act
Urgency: Paramount | Sponsor: Trotskylvania


Findings and Policies

§ 1: As a fledgling nation, Aurentina has faced problems with national identity. With a divided electorate, and a number of legitimate concerns arising over the growth of partisan and other militias in the country, it is paramount that as part of organizing a government, the security of the people of the nation is protected.

While external threats have been minimal, and as of yet there is no evidence to suggest that the various militias intend an armed putsch against the government, their existence highlights another problem. Presently, law enforcement and security are the responsibility of local communities. Local police are increasingly inadequate in a highly mobile, globalized society.

Establishment of executive authority

§ 2: (a) A Ministry of Justice shall be established, under the aegis of the Council of Ministers, headed by a Minister of Justice.
(1) This act shall not abridge the right of local communities to establish their own police forces; However:
(2) The Ministry of Justice shall be responsible for implementing national policy regarding criminal justice (including but not limited to prosecution, public defense, incarceration, and rehabilitation), and regulating the conduct of both the National Police Force as established under Section 3, and the various local police forces.
(3) The Ministry of Justice shall be responsible for regulating the conduct of partisan militias according to law enacted by the Senate.

(b) A Ministry of Defense shall be established, under the aegis of the Council of Ministers, headed by a Minister of Defense.
(1) Nothing in this authorization shall be understood to conflict with the prerogative, established under the Republican Executive Act, of the President to act as commander-in-chief of the nation's armed forces.
(2) The Ministry of Defense shall be responsible for implementing defense policy regarding the uniformed armed forces established under Section 4, as enacted by the Council of Ministers.

National Police

§ 3: (a) The National Police Force [NPF] shall be established to protect against breaches of the peace, protect public safety and enforce criminal law.
(1) The NPF shall be governed by a Public Safety Commission appointed by the Ministry of Justice.
(2) Hiring for the NPF shall be conducted by a non-partisan Civil Service Commission, hereby established by this act as an independent government agency under the supervision of the Council of Ministers and the Senate.

(b) This act authorizes NPF to have universal jurisdiction over the entire nation, as well as any embassies established on foreign soil. As per this law, local police forces are required to cooperate with the NPF, and all matters that involve multiple local jurisdictions shall be the primary responsibility of the NPF.

National Defense Force

§ 4: (a) The National Defense Force (NDF) shall be established to protect against foreign invasion and insurrection.
(1) The NDF shall be divided into an Army, Navy, and Air Force.
(2) The NDF shall be an all volunteer military, and no provision of this act shall allow conscription except during times of war. Conscription may only be authorized by Senate resolution during times when a state of war has been declared.
(3) The NDF shall not be used for domestic law enforcement except upon the declaration of a national state of emergency by the Senate.
(4) NDF personnel shall not be quartered in private homes without the consent of the occupants.
(5) The NDF is presently authorized to hold a maximum strength of 200,000 uniformed officers and enlisted men.




tl;dr : Something more important than whether or not we have private militias.




I second this.


I third it. This bill is far more inclusive than my own.
Call me what you will. Some people prefer 'Idiot'
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Arglorand
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12597
Founded: Jan 08, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Arglorand » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:19 pm

Demphor wrote:
Beta Test wrote:


I second this.


Thirded

Fifthed
Last edited by Arglorand on Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Impeach Dagoth Ur, legalise Daedra worship, the Empire is theft. Nerevarine 3E 427.

Pros: Dunmeri independence, abolition of the Empire, the Daedra, Morag Tong, House Redoran, Ashlander interests, abolitionism, Dissident Priests, canonisation of St. Jiub the Cliff Racer Slayer.
Cons: Imperials, the Empire, the False Tribunal, Dagoth Ur, House Hlaalu, Imperials, the Eight Divines, "Talos", "Nords", Imperial unionism, Imperials.

I am a: Social Democrat | Bright green | Republican | Intersectional feminist | Civic nationalist | Multiculturalist
(and i blatantly stole this from Old Tyrannia)

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Mollary
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1616
Founded: Nov 18, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Mollary » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:19 pm

Priory Academy USSR wrote:
Mollary wrote:Unless the militias start to cause trouble.


The militias don't have one of the biggest military budgets in the world (if the economic situation is similar to that of the UK), or about 100,000 fully trained combat troops at any one time: they'd be more busy fighting each other anyway. I think we're fine with limiting it to 5%.

Fair enough. Although I'm assuming we'd be using our troops to stop the militia battering each other about? To be honest I think threats of outside invasion are pretty minimal in comparison.
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Imperiatom
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Posts: 2416
Founded: Mar 03, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Imperiatom » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:20 pm

Trotskylvania wrote:
National Security Act
Urgency: Paramount | Sponsor: Trotskylvania


Findings and Policies

§ 1: As a fledgling nation, Aurentina has faced problems with national identity. With a divided electorate, and a number of legitimate concerns arising over the growth of partisan and other militias in the country, it is paramount that as part of organizing a government, the security of the people of the nation is protected.

While external threats have been minimal, and as of yet there is no evidence to suggest that the various militias intend an armed putsch against the government, their existence highlights another problem. Presently, law enforcement and security are the responsibility of local communities. Local police are increasingly inadequate in a highly mobile, globalized society.

Establishment of executive authority

§ 2: (a) A Ministry of Justice shall be established, under the aegis of the Council of Ministers, headed by a Minister of Justice.
(1) This act shall not abridge the right of local communities to establish their own police forces; However:
(2) The Ministry of Justice shall be responsible for implementing national policy regarding criminal justice (including but not limited to prosecution, public defense, incarceration, and rehabilitation), and regulating the conduct of both the National Police Force as established under Section 3, and the various local police forces.
(3) The Ministry of Justice shall be responsible for regulating the conduct of partisan militias according to law enacted by the Senate.

(b) A Ministry of Defense shall be established, under the aegis of the Council of Ministers, headed by a Minister of Defense.
(1) Nothing in this authorization shall be understood to conflict with the prerogative, established under the Republican Executive Act, of the President to act as commander-in-chief of the nation's armed forces.
(2) The Ministry of Defense shall be responsible for implementing defense policy regarding the uniformed armed forces established under Section 4, as enacted by the Council of Ministers.

National Police

§ 3: (a) The National Police Force [NPF] shall be established to protect against breaches of the peace, protect public safety and enforce criminal law.
(1) The NPF shall be governed by a Public Safety Commission appointed by the Ministry of Justice.
(2) Hiring for the NPF shall be conducted by a non-partisan Civil Service Commission, hereby established by this act as an independent government agency under the supervision of the Council of Ministers and the Senate.

(b) This act authorizes NPF to have universal jurisdiction over the entire nation, as well as any embassies established on foreign soil. As per this law, local police forces are required to cooperate with the NPF, and all matters that involve multiple local jurisdictions shall be the primary responsibility of the NPF.

National Defense Force

§ 4: (a) The National Defense Force (NDF) shall be established to protect against foreign invasion and insurrection.
(1) The NDF shall be divided into an Army, Navy, and Air Force.
(2) The NDF shall be an all volunteer military, and no provision of this act shall allow conscription except during times of war. Conscription may only be authorized by Senate resolution during times when a state of war has been declared.
(3) The NDF shall not be used for domestic law enforcement except upon the declaration of a national state of emergency by the Senate.
(4) NDF personnel shall not be quartered in private homes without the consent of the occupants.
(5) The NDF is presently authorized to hold a maximum strength of 200,000 uniformed officers and enlisted persons.




tl;dr : Something more important than whether or not we have private militias.


Against. we can not decide on a limit to troop numbers when we do not even know our population. Use your common sense please senators.

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Trotskylvania
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Founded: Jul 07, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Trotskylvania » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:20 pm

Arglorand wrote:
Demphor wrote:
Thirded

Fifthed

Then I guess it is in queue.
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Priory Academy USSR
Senator
 
Posts: 4833
Founded: May 04, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Priory Academy USSR » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:21 pm

Imperiatom wrote:
Priory Academy USSR wrote:
Britain currently operates on half of that.

While it does need a slight raise, there is no reason why the budget should go over 5%: it would just harm the economy in the long run for a military force we don't need.


Right so a successful armaments industry is useless to the economy :blink: Pull the other one.


Given that the military budget is currently 0%, there is presumably only a very small armaments industry catering to civilian needs. The money could be spent on something else which creates jobs and has a better long term effect: renewable energy, perhaps? Schooling, if the situation requires it? Space exploration, if the TR Party's views are realised? All of these would be a far more useful contribution to both the economy and the furtherment of mankind than an increased military budget.
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Great Nepal
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 28677
Founded: Jan 11, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Great Nepal » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:21 pm

Trotskylvania wrote:
National Security Act
Urgency: Paramount | Sponsor: Trotskylvania


Findings and Policies

§ 1: As a fledgling nation, Aurentina has faced problems with national identity. With a divided electorate, and a number of legitimate concerns arising over the growth of partisan and other militias in the country, it is paramount that as part of organizing a government, the security of the people of the nation is protected.

While external threats have been minimal, and as of yet there is no evidence to suggest that the various militias intend an armed putsch against the government, their existence highlights another problem. Presently, law enforcement and security are the responsibility of local communities. Local police are increasingly inadequate in a highly mobile, globalized society.

Establishment of executive authority

§ 2: (a) A Ministry of Justice shall be established, under the aegis of the Council of Ministers, headed by a Minister of Justice.
(1) This act shall not abridge the right of local communities to establish their own police forces; However:
(2) The Ministry of Justice shall be responsible for implementing national policy regarding criminal justice (including but not limited to prosecution, public defense, incarceration, and rehabilitation), and regulating the conduct of both the National Police Force as established under Section 3, and the various local police forces.
(3) The Ministry of Justice shall be responsible for regulating the conduct of partisan militias according to law enacted by the Senate.

(b) A Ministry of Defense shall be established, under the aegis of the Council of Ministers, headed by a Minister of Defense.
(1) Nothing in this authorization shall be understood to conflict with the prerogative, established under the Republican Executive Act, of the President to act as commander-in-chief of the nation's armed forces.
(2) The Ministry of Defense shall be responsible for implementing defense policy regarding the uniformed armed forces established under Section 4, as enacted by the Council of Ministers.

National Police

§ 3: (a) The National Police Force [NPF] shall be established to protect against breaches of the peace, protect public safety and enforce criminal law.
(1) The NPF shall be governed by a Public Safety Commission appointed by the Ministry of Justice.
(2) Hiring for the NPF shall be conducted by a non-partisan Civil Service Commission, hereby established by this act as an independent government agency under the supervision of the Council of Ministers and the Senate.

(b) This act authorizes NPF to have universal jurisdiction over the entire nation, as well as any embassies established on foreign soil. As per this law, local police forces are required to cooperate with the NPF, and all matters that involve multiple local jurisdictions shall be the primary responsibility of the NPF.

National Defense Force

§ 4: (a) The National Defense Force (NDF) shall be established to protect against foreign invasion and insurrection.
(1) The NDF shall be divided into an Army, Navy, and Air Force.
(2) The NDF shall be an all volunteer military, and no provision of this act shall allow conscription except during times of war. Conscription may only be authorized by Senate resolution during times when a state of war has been declared.
(3) The NDF shall not be used for domestic law enforcement except upon the declaration of a national state of emergency by the Senate.
(4) NDF personnel shall not be quartered in private homes without the consent of the occupants.
(5) The NDF is presently authorized to hold a maximum strength of 200,000 uniformed officers and enlisted persons.




tl;dr : Something more important than whether or not we have private militias.

With above change, I can support this bill. Its job of generals to decide how much uniformed officer armed forces should have, not the senate's.
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.


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