[DEFEATED] Liberate California

[Deadeye Jack]

No. He was never a TITO member.

Furthermore, Dead-Eye Jack is not the same person as Mad Jack.

Correct on both accounts. To add, I've never even been a citizen of XKI.

[Sciongrad]

This is as close as brexit.

Thinking about it, that comparison actually works on a lot of levels. This really is in a way Nation States' Brexit referendum.

Except in reverse. The side that relied entirely duplicity is losing!

[Pentagol]

I may be a Member of the 1000Islands, but this has my support. I vote for.

[Taziristan]

I may be a Member of the 1000Islands, but this has my support. I vote for.

Why? There's no reason for this.

[Wallenburg]

"Liberate California" was defeated 8,424 votes to 6,154.

[Taziristan]

Good.

[Sandaoguo]

No one could possibly expect TITO to do anything that overtly aggressive. What is much more likely is that they will proceed with re-founding in the future with low native input, citing "native support" as justification for their actions based on input from their cherry-picked natives as they have here, and then either keep the Founder nation according to supposed native wishes or give it to some defender who claims to be a native as they did in Hogwarts.

On the balance, this seems far better for the game than the kind of trophy collecting groups like DEN do. Like I said, you're applying a double standard. If you don't think TITO should do refounds without broad and historically proven native input, then you should oppose any refound that fails to meet your TITO-focused criteria.

[Cormactopia II]

On the balance, this seems far better for the game than the kind of trophy collecting groups like DEN do.

What about it is better for the game?

Like I said, you're applying a double standard. If you don't think TITO should do refounds without broad and historically proven native input, then you should oppose any refound that fails to meet your TITO-focused criteria.

I oppose hypocrisy, and in that sense there is no double standard. TITO is supposed to be about protecting natives, not rigging elections against natives. If they want to come out and admit they don't care about natives and they just enjoy fighting raiders, you'll find I don't have much beef with them. But as long as they're pretending to occupy the moral high ground as the white knights of NationStates defending helpless natives, I'm going to call out their actions against natives.

Raiders don't pretend to raid in the best interests of natives. Raiders aren't behaving hypocritically when re-founding against native wishes, so I don't have a problem with it. The problem for me is the hypocrisy, not some overwhelming concern for natives.

[Sandaoguo]

On the balance, this seems far better for the game than the kind of trophy collecting groups like DEN do.

What about it is better for the game?

The region has the opportunity to become vibrant, because TITO isn't in the habit of collecting trophies. If they do keep the founder, they don't empty the region and slap a TITO-flavored WFE on it for all eternity.

I oppose hypocrisy, and in that sense there is no double standard.

No, you're just in your raider mode for now.

But as long as they're pretending to occupy the moral high ground as the white knights of NationStates defending helpless natives, I'm going to call out their actions against natives. Raiders don't pretend to raid in the best interests of natives. Raiders aren't behaving hypocritically when re-founding against native wishes, so I don't have a problem with it. The problem for me is the hypocrisy, not some overwhelming concern for natives.

Dark knights don't get to accuse white knights of hypocrisy. If you don't care about native wishes, then you don't get to create a conspiracy that TITO is acting against native wishes.

[Jakker]

What about it is better for the game?

The region has the opportunity to become vibrant, because TITO isn't in the habit of collecting trophies. If they do keep the founder, they don't empty the region and slap a TITO-flavored WFE on it for all eternity.

Dharma was not fully emptied when it was occupied and had the opportunity to revive. This did not happen and instead every nation in the region CTE.

[Cormactopia II]

What about it is better for the game?

The region has the opportunity to become vibrant, because TITO isn't in the habit of collecting trophies. If they do keep the founder, they don't empty the region and slap a TITO-flavored WFE on it for all eternity.

Oh no? Someone should tell Empire of Power.

But as long as they're pretending to occupy the moral high ground as the white knights of NationStates defending helpless natives, I'm going to call out their actions against natives. Raiders don't pretend to raid in the best interests of natives. Raiders aren't behaving hypocritically when re-founding against native wishes, so I don't have a problem with it. The problem for me is the hypocrisy, not some overwhelming concern for natives.

Dark knights don't get to accuse white knights of hypocrisy. If you don't care about native wishes, then you don't get to create a conspiracy that TITO is acting against native wishes.

Actually, we get to do whatever we want, which I know is a concept you've always had a little trouble with.

Last time I checked, I'm not the one who rigged an election for the would-be Founder of California, so I'm not the one who created the concern that TITO is acting against native wishes. TITO did that. Apparently you're fine with that, which comes as absolutely no surprise, as you've never had much regard for any region's sovereignty, your political pretenses aside.

[Bears Armed]

I've just moved my 'Californian' puppet back "home" from TRR.

[Almonaster Nuevo]

High 4, bears!

[Keam]

I am glad this one was defeated. So happy!

[General Knot]

The hidden message remains unnoticed.

[Wrapper]

The hidden message remains unnoticed.

Well, not anymore, obviously.

[Kaboomlandia]

The hidden message remains unnoticed.

What, that the first letters read "invader"?

[Tim-Opolis]

The hidden message remains unnoticed.

Oh... was that hidden?

[Yodle]

The hidden message remains unnoticed.

Sneaky