[DRAFT] Repeal "Liberate St Abbaddon"

[Solorni]

Not sure why we should support a repeal for a partisan region. If St Abbaddon was an independent or neutral region, I could see the desire to get involved. But getting involved for the R/D aspect of the game particularly when St Abbaddon has decided to be defender and fight against raiders seems odd.

[General Knot]

Again, all of DEN's occupations, including St Abbaddon, were executed without script usage. I don't need scripts to be competent.

Yeah that explains all the DEATs and DOSes and WA bans and DEN regions deleted, don't it? Come on man you ain't foolin' nobody.

For your convenience.

[Goddess Relief Office]

Recognizing the region of St Abbaddon is now permanently closed with the password hidden and unknown to any member,

Is the above relatively certain? No change of mind 6 months later?

[Weed]

Recognizing the region of St Abbaddon is now permanently closed with the password hidden and unknown to any member,

Is the above relatively certain? No change of mind 6 months later?

Unless I get fired, or decide to take a pay raise and be poor in need of a safety net (LOL) then yes, I'm relatively certain I can't be active to hold members and keep numbers up enough to keep the region safe. It'd be the end of St Abby. I gave it a shot, and came up noticeably short of the goals I set for myself due to rarely logging in.

[Malisin]

I'm late to the party here, but alas;

I was a native of St Abbaddon and was with Topid for two months in our back-up region, St Abby, before we were liberated.

Topid has indicated multiple times in this thread that he is planning on "clearing out" St Abbaddon and putting it on permanent lock-down. I can't see any reason for this proposal. What is the point of maintaining St Abbaddon's legacy if it is only to exist as an empty webpage with no community.

I'm sorry that Hawkswind CTE'd and we were raided- and it is a possibility in the future. But I cannot understand, Topid, why your only solution to this is essentially forcing the region's extinction. I am disappointed you did not think to inform your region-mates of this turn of events.

I would be honored to delegate Abbaddon and set up elections for the future to form a community, which I believe was your original intent. I hope you won't deprive us of that.

I do aim to eventually repeal this liberation, but on terms that foster the growth of the region- not its destruction.

I hope your career goes well, Topid.

[Cormactopia II]

With natives conflicted about repeal of the liberation resolution, I won't be supporting repeal until they're on the same page, one way or the other.

[Mabuhay Land]

[b][b]So dramatic! I support and vote for. We will miss you behalf of NationStates Bravo for your dedication.

[We Are Not the NSA]

Seconds ago: Summer-Rose approved the World Assembly proposal "Repeal "Liberate St Abbaddon"".

Approved. Good luck Topid. o7

[Topid]

Thanks! I still have pulse everyone.

I'll run a stamp campaign closer to the current vote ending.

[Malisin]

Topid has seized this region against the desires of all those in it and his policy to "close down the region for good," as he stated in this thread, will end up leaving us no better off than we would have been under the raiders.

Defenders, if you care about regional communities, do not support this repeal.

I will be countering with a stamp campaign of my own, Topid.

[Malisin]

Nice to see you have also taken it upon yourself to lie about me in the RMB.

[General Knot]

Your end goal is the same as mine. Good job, Topid.

[Topid]

No Knot, your goal was to refound the region, and I'm glad you finally admitted that your goal from the beginning was to eject everyone. I'm not going for a refound, as that would erase the history that you failed to erase due to the World Assembly Liberation.

Nothing I said was untrue Malisin, even if my opinion that I draw from it is wrong, and it might be though I generally have good instincts on these things. You endorsed DEN, and they didn't eject you with the other nations, only later, and I don't trust you. All of these are true statements. I told defenders I suspected you were a invader before we ever got the region back, mate.

FYI to everyone else, following Malisin's banning, I'm talking with some of the others about possibly letting someone else replace me as delegate, I haven't made up my mind yet. I am certain I am done with NS, so I know it is silly for me to lock this region down when someone else (not Raider Malisin, but others in the region) still want to use it. That's a dumb thing for them to want, as the Malisin/Knots of the world are going to give them a rude awakening, but I'm struggling to justify why they shouldn't learn that lesson the hard way since I won't be around much to care. As I said on the RMB, "It is probably immature for a 23 year old with a professional career to be trying to protect something that amounts to a childhood toy I feel fondly of."

Meh, the more I post about it I know what the mature thing to do is, I just don't wanna.

Might not change my mind but their arguments are at least making me think. At either rate, I'm done in a few weeks, my significant other is moving in (again) and I will wrap this up one way or another. If they talk me into letting something post-Topid happen in St Abbaddon, it will be fully post-Topid. IDC what happens, it isn't my problem and I won't be damned to help any further. I won't come riding in to save the region from any crap next time.

[Malisin]

(not Raider Malisin, but others in the region).

Lmao. Do you really believe this, or are you just attempting to garner support from the naive?

Yes, I endorsed Durezz temporarily because I had no fall back region to go to- among your many other incompetencies, you failed to inform your regionmates that you had a back up region and were making any sort of efforts with defenders to combat DEN. My bad. Had I truly been a raider I also could have banned you from St Abbaddon immediately after I entered the region following DEN's removal- I was the delegate for a window of about 12 hours.

Obviously, not banning you was my most grievous mistake.

Regardless of the blatant absurdity that is the claim I'm a raider, your own absolute inadequacy in your conduct since you were unfairly granted executive powers by the moderators makes me reconsider whether or not we would be in a better place had I actually worked against you from the beginning.

The truth, Topid, is that without anyone's permission (including the natives, or the new members) but your own- you took it upon yourself to destroy Abbaddon as your final parting gift.

Up until the last few hours, when the height of your ineptitude was laid bare for the rest of us, I had been nothing but cooperative and friendly with you, as my own post in this thread highlights.

I'm still not sure whether your bend on destroying St Abbaddon is a matter of gross incompetence or genuine, selfish "I'll have it or no one can!" Anyway, at least now that you're leaving we'll be spared of your future mismanagements.
~~~
For the viewer's pleasure, here's Conch Kingdom informing me of Topid's intentions- as well as Topid's own admission that this was in fact the case:

~~~
EDIT: In case the ridiculousness of Topid's positions has not been made clear, I've dumped my sent TG's from the invasion period into an Imgur album which proves, among other things:

1. I solicited TITO and defender support immediately after our invasion, even before Topid did, and took active steps throughout the invasion to combat the invaders.
2. I made no attempt to hide from Topid why I was endorsing the invader delegate, and even thanked him for launching a defense in the meantime.
3. I immediately contacted our former delegate, Hawkswind, informing him of the invaders.
4. I attempted to author a liberation proposal and solicited defender support for it.
and, finally,
5. I made no attempt to grab the delegation from Topid until AFTER I learned he was not setting up a regional community AND had asked his permission to do so.

Take a look for yourself: http://imgur.com/a/FCIm4

[Cormactopia II]

I absolutely won't be supporting this repeal, and will do everything I can to see it defeated.

Topid has made a number of promises regarding St Abbaddon over the years, and he has failed to deliver on most if not all of them. Generally speaking, he only takes an active interest in St Abbaddon when it's raided and under occupation, and then leaves it to wither again once the occupation is over. He is motivated not by genuine concern for St Abbaddon, but by a desire to beat raiders, and that really couldn't be more clear at this point with Topid essentially proposing the destruction of the region, against native wishes, because he and he alone wills it.

When the liberation resolution was proposed, questions arose regarding whether the region could be secure without password protection, and whether we would just have to go through an endless cycle of liberate-repeal-liberate-repeal. Topid assured us that the liberation resolution would not need to be repealed in the future, that the region would be secure because he was making a long-term commitment to its security, and that he would personally be overseeing the level of recruitment needed to ensure the region's security. While that did happen, for a time, here we are now with Topid proposing repeal of a liberation resolution he assured us would never need repealed because he is about to retire, having done nothing to ensure sustainable, long-term stability. He is expressing nothing but contempt for the wishes of the region's natives, he has banned one native on flimsy suspicion of being a raider, and he has been treating the new natives he recruited as irrelevant.

Passwords are the death of a region no matter who imposes it, I'd rather St Abby be raided often than one day cease to exist. I argued strongly against the password in St Abby but when Hawkswind said he wanted it anyway I did not oppose, I had/have a lot of respect for Hawkswind. But I will definitely never be one to argue that passwording the region is a good strategy to protect the region. If this passes, and anyone other than Hawk tried to repeal our Lib I would join you in your fight. I will remember you as a definite ally should that event occur.

Now, we will not be tag raided. I'm not sure how active I'll be but I do know I can put $20-$30 per month into recruitment, which should be plenty to ensure that either myself or someone else (unlikely) has enough endorsements to not be tag raided regardless of other activity levels.

It's safe to say a raider couldn't do much worse to the region than what Topid is proposing. He is proposing to impose an invisible password on the region against native wishes and let the region die behind that password. When a raider imposes an invisible password against native wishes for the purpose of destroying a region, defenders, including Topid, call that "griefing." That is what I would call it now as well. With the sole exception of NAZI EUROPE, the Security Council has never been in the business of repealing liberation resolutions so that regions can be griefed, and I don't think we should be making exceptions to that rule just because the person who would like to do the griefing is a defender and is telling us, again, that we should trust his word that he knows what's best for this region. That's the same thing he said when he asked for the liberation resolution he's now asking us to repeal.

[Evil Wolf]

It's safe to say a raider couldn't do much worse to the region than what Topid is proposing. He is proposing to impose an invisible password on the region against native wishes and let the region die behind that password. When a raider imposes an invisible password against native wishes for the purpose of destroying a region, defenders, including Topid, call that "griefing."

I must whole heartedly agree. This is certainly an attempted griefing on Topid's part, and runs directly contrary to the natives' wishes. "Defenders" indeed.

With all this clear evidence, I really have to wonder why Moderation insists on keeping the Founder Nation around when it's become abundantly clear that the "DEN threat" has passed and is now only being used as an excuse by a lone player who seeks to take the region as a trophy for himself.

[Mallorea and Riva]

It's safe to say a raider couldn't do much worse to the region than what Topid is proposing. He is proposing to impose an invisible password on the region against native wishes and let the region die behind that password. When a raider imposes an invisible password against native wishes for the purpose of destroying a region, defenders, including Topid, call that "griefing."

I must whole heartedly agree. This is certainly an attempted griefing on Topid's part, and runs directly contrary to the natives' wishes. "Defenders" indeed.

With all this clear evidence, I really have to wonder why Moderation insists on keeping the Founder Nation around when it's become abundantly clear that the "DEN threat" has passed and is now only being used as an excuse by a lone player who seeks to take the region as a trophy for himself.

If you have gameside concerns, file a GHR.

[Topid]

@Mal: Just so the record is clear, you could not have banned me the first update you had the delegate position. Even if you were an executive delegate (and I cannot remember if you were or not) the mods were waiting to hear from me how to move forward, so banning me would have been very short sighted. Obviously they'd have let me back in and your days as delegate would end.

I do not need to consult with you on matters of St Abbaddon. This nation of yours was sitting in Lazarus and WAed up only two weeks before the raid. You moved into the region on the first day of the raid, and endorsed Durezz. You were supporting DEN before I even got the email that the region had been raided. You remained in the region even after every nation that had been there prior to the raid had been ejected for a month. This is what NSHistory shows. You are an incredibly obvious puppet, and I've never felt any differently about your loyalties.

Your history in St Abbaddon prior to my delegacy is no different than three dozen DEN privates. So no, you did not get any info from me, I have returned your messages out of niceties.

Further beyond me, absolutely no one that can call themselves a true member of the community that existed prior to the raid are left with the possible exception of Kitsco, who did post frequently but in his role as an ambassador to some alliance or group of regions that one of our former foreign affairs people joined and Hawk continued, at least, that is how I recall it. He can say that he participated on our RMB fairly regularly since the Coalition of Freedom raid that he was somehow involved with long ago. ANYWHO, so I have been consulting with the only natives as I see it left in the region: me, myself, and I.

As you can tell, I'm now on the fence about cutting Kitsco in on that trio, but there is no doubt in my mind what you are Malisin, and it is certainly not a native. Enjoy your new region, the red in the flag is a nice touch.

---

To the rest: I'm still reflecting on whether I intend to 1) move forward with this liberation, 2) let Kitsco give it a go as it won't be any hair off my chin if it goes south, or 3) do neither and hold on to this delegacy as long as I can make it. It is a terribly tough decision. No matter what I decide it involves me coming to terms that I'm really done with NS, which has been a process for someone who spent more time than any of you know playing this game. It is likely I will not have made my decision by the time I would need to campaign for this tomorrow, so there will be a resubmission (or not).

[Malisin]

I do not need to consult with you on matters of St Abbaddon. This nation of yours was sitting in Lazarus and WAed up only two weeks before the raid. You moved into the region on the first day of the raid, and endorsed Durezz. You were supporting DEN before I even got the email that the region had been raided. You remained in the region even after every nation that had been there prior to the raid had been ejected for a month. This is what NSHistory shows. You are an incredibly obvious puppet, and I've never felt any differently about your loyalties.

Your history in St Abbaddon prior to my delegacy is no different than three dozen DEN privates. So no, you did not get any info from me, I have returned your messages out of niceties.

Thanks for getting back to me! Unfortunately, your drivel failed to address or refute anything I said.

1. I have the telegrams I sent back and forth from Durrezz where he specifically threatened me to endorse him. At your request, I'll dump them on an imgur album.
2. Had I been a raider, why did Durrezz eventually banject me over a month before the raid concluded?
3. You have failed to address my many, MANY correspondences with defenders that I posted in the imgur album in my post above. If I was a raider, care to explain those?

On another note- you are correct that Malisin was a puppet of mine not long ago. My correspondence with Hawkswind shows my request to enter Malisin into the region in addition to my primary nation. I was native to the region for months--- I'm sorry that counters your delusional narrative.

Further beyond me, absolutely no one that can call themselves a true member of the community that existed prior to the raid are left with the possible exception of Kitsco, who did post frequently but in his role as an ambassador to some alliance or group of regions that one of our former foreign affairs people joined and Hawk continued, at least, that is how I recall it. He can say that he participated on our RMB fairly regularly since the Coalition of Freedom raid that he was somehow involved with long ago. ANYWHO, so I have been consulting with the only natives as I see it left in the region: me, myself, and I.

As you can tell, I'm now on the fence about cutting Kitsco in on that trio, but there is no doubt in my mind what you are Malisin, and it is certainly not a native.

It's nice to see the mental gymnastics you're playing to justify what everyone but you in both the RMB and the forum here is seeing: your resolute incompetence.

I'll give you this; your determination to squat on an empty passworded region while you're not even going to be playing the game anymore is admirable, if not a little sad.

Passwords are the death of a region no matter who imposes it, I'd rather St Abby be raided often than one day cease to exist.

Indeed.

[Isvataan]

Another repeal needed though the judging comments (though a few years ago, so they could of changed) they seem conflicted on it. Still, worth mentioning the repeal

[Vincent Drake]

We don't repeal these things "just" because natives regain control. If they want it repealed, they let us know.

[Frisbeeteria]

Another repeal needed

Stop bumping this and other long-dead threads. If you think a repeal is needed, write one or two or six. There's zero point in gravedigging abandoned efforts.