[NEW Draft!] Commend The Black Riders

[Toronina]

Do that NSA. In year 2015 The Black Riders has been more active, more powerful, more effective, more furious, more professional then ever before, reaching new unprecedented peak of in many aspects of raiding activity.

TBR is in it's history made already some 15000 successful raids. Numbers of deployable riders to the raider occupations are higher then ever. Average team size of updaters is increasing, as well as results. Infiltrator Corps are organised. In few days we will have active tag at over half of raidable regions.

In other words, if it's time to Commend The Black Riders for what it's good at: Raiding - then time for that is better then ever before. HUZZAH!

- Cora -
Secretary
The Black Riders

Hitler was good at killing people, should we commend him? Genghis Khan and his Mongols were excellent raiders, should we commend him? Should we start commending every single good raider just because they are good at it? Not even defenders get that treatment.

Raiding ≠ Commendable Action

[Kemintiri of Kemet]

Do that NSA. In year 2015 The Black Riders has been more active, more powerful, more effective, more furious, more professional then ever before, reaching new unprecedented peak of in many aspects of raiding activity.

TBR is in it's history made already some 15000 successful raids. Numbers of deployable riders to the raider occupations are higher then ever. Average team size of updaters is increasing, as well as results. Infiltrator Corps are organised. In few days we will have active tag at over half of raidable regions.

In other words, if it's time to Commend The Black Riders for what it's good at: Raiding - then time for that is better then ever before. HUZZAH!

- Cora -
Secretary
The Black Riders

Hitler was good at killing people, should we commend him? Genghis Khan and his Mongols were excellent raiders, should we commend him? Should we start commending every single good raider just because they are good at it? Not even defenders get that treatment.

Raiding ≠ Commendable Action

I) Thou shalt not commit slippery slopes.

Raiding in NS is FAAAARRR from war crimes.

II) Thou shalt not commit black-or-white.

Not everything is The Black Riders and The White Hope. The Fifty Shades of Grey Riders exist as well.

But jokes aside... There are more than two sides to the R/D story... There are personal aspects (rather not disclose out of respect), as well as moral aspects as to why we raid/defend...

IV) Thou shalt not commit NSGeneralisation.

I remember people dragged real-world (OOC) politics into the Ceirien recruitment thread... The result was... an eyesore...

[We Are Not the NSA]

Do that NSA. In year 2015 The Black Riders has been more active, more powerful, more effective, more furious, more professional then ever before, reaching new unprecedented peak of in many aspects of raiding activity.

TBR is in it's history made already some 15000 successful raids. Numbers of deployable riders to the raider occupations are higher then ever. Average team size of updaters is increasing, as well as results. Infiltrator Corps are organised. In few days we will have active tag at over half of raidable regions.

In other words, if it's time to Commend The Black Riders for what it's good at: Raiding - then time for that is better then ever before. HUZZAH!

- Cora -
Secretary
The Black Riders

Hitler was good at killing people, should we commend him? Genghis Khan and his Mongols were excellent raiders, should we commend him? Should we start commending every single good raider just because they are good at it? Not even defenders get that treatment.

Raiding ≠ Commendable Action

Oh ho ho! There it is! The age old Nazi comparison. So you are saying that The Nazis, and The Black Riders are comparable. That each are the same level of evil. Hitler, history's #1 expert on committing genocide, vs. a group of people on the internet that you don't like = basically the same thing. Please, go find a Jewish person and explain that comparison and see if they agree.

In regards to the second part of your statement:
1) I don't want to commend the black riders because they are good at raiding. If you actually read the proposal instead of just spouting out anti-tbr comments, you would see that being good at raiding is not even close to the most important reason.
2) Yes, defenders get commended for being good at defending, because defending is a commendable thing, as long as you are good at it. However, it is not the sole reason that they are commended, just like how raiding is not the only reason raiders can deserve to be commended.

Raiding = Commendable Action
Raiding ≠ Only Commendable Action

[Toronina]

Hitler was good at killing people, should we commend him? Genghis Khan and his Mongols were excellent raiders, should we commend him? Should we start commending every single good raider just because they are good at it? Not even defenders get that treatment.

Raiding ≠ Commendable Action

Oh ho ho! There it is! The age old Nazi comparison. So you are saying that The Nazis, and The Black Riders are comparable. That each are the same level of evil. Hitler, history's #1 expert on committing genocide, vs. a group of people on the internet that you don't like = basically the same thing. Please, go find a Jewish person and explain that comparison and see if they agree.

In regards to the second part of your statement:
1) I don't want to commend the black riders because they are good at raiding. If you actually read the proposal instead of just spouting out anti-tbr comments, you would see that being good at raiding is not even close to the most important reason.
2) Yes, defenders get commended for being good at defending, because defending is a commendable thing, as long as you are good at it. However, it is not the sole reason that they are commended, just like how raiding is not the only reason raiders can deserve to be commended.

Raiding = Commendable Action
Raiding ≠ Only Commendable Action

1. Yes you do. That's the only fucking reason you created this. And don't give me the bullshit of you 'tried to give it up.' You could have asked the mods to lock it and archive it, instead you left it open for people to comment. You know it will never pass.
2. I was merely giving an example. You want to commend raiders for being good at raiding. Khan was good a real life raiding, destroying real life regions, we wouldn't commend him. Alright then, lets do that, so long as we commend defenders for being good at defending.. Oh wait, you won't ever want to do that.

Raiding is NOT a commendable action. TBR deserve their Condemnations, and they should never get a Commendation. Defending regions against invaders is a good thing. Being the invaders is not.

Hitler was good at killing people, should we commend him? Genghis Khan and his Mongols were excellent raiders, should we commend him? Should we start commending every single good raider just because they are good at it? Not even defenders get that treatment.

Raiding ≠ Commendable Action

I) Thou shalt not commit slippery slopes.

Raiding in NS is FAAAARRR from war crimes.

II) Thou shalt not commit black-or-white.

Not everything is The Black Riders and The White Hope. The Fifty Shades of Grey Riders exist as well.

But jokes aside... There are more than two sides to the R/D story... There are personal aspects (rather not disclose out of respect), as well as moral aspects as to why we raid/defend...

IV) Thou shalt not commit NSGeneralisation.

I remember people dragged real-world (OOC) politics into the Ceirien recruitment thread... The result was... an eyesore...

Again, Ii was giving examples. According the NSA's logic, everyone in Nationstates should be commended.

[We Are Not the NSA]

Oh ho ho! There it is! The age old Nazi comparison. So you are saying that The Nazis, and The Black Riders are comparable. That each are the same level of evil. Hitler, history's #1 expert on committing genocide, vs. a group of people on the internet that you don't like = basically the same thing. Please, go find a Jewish person and explain that comparison and see if they agree.

In regards to the second part of your statement:
1) I don't want to commend the black riders because they are good at raiding. If you actually read the proposal instead of just spouting out anti-tbr comments, you would see that being good at raiding is not even close to the most important reason.
2) Yes, defenders get commended for being good at defending, because defending is a commendable thing, as long as you are good at it. However, it is not the sole reason that they are commended, just like how raiding is not the only reason raiders can deserve to be commended.

Raiding = Commendable Action
Raiding ≠ Only Commendable Action

1. Yes you do. That's the only fucking reason you created this. And don't give me the bullshit of you 'tried to give it up.' You could have asked the mods to lock it and archive it, instead you left it open for people to comment. You know it will never pass.
2. I was merely giving an example. You want to commend raiders for being good at raiding. Khan was good a real life raiding, destroying real life regions, we wouldn't commend him. Alright then, lets do that, so long as we commend defenders for being good at defending.. Oh wait, you won't ever want to do that.

Raiding is NOT a commendable action. TBR deserve their Condemnations, and they should never get a Commendation. Defending regions against invaders is a good thing. Being the invaders is not.

1) Allow me to rephrase: I don't want to commend the black riders only because they are good at raiding. Also:

A lot of those "Regions the Black Riders have helped to refound" literally say that their natives have been vaporized by TBR.

This comment was posted 19 DAYS after the previous post. I did abandon this thread, but when this guy revived it (with a comment that is kind of obvious and unnecessary) I decided that if people started posting in it again I would continue, and people did.

2- What makes you think that I wouldn't support a commendation of a defender who is good at defending? If they are good at defending, then they are liberating regions, which gives raiders more targets. If nobody defended, raiders would run out of targets.

Lastly, you appear to believe that I don't support our condemnation, but I do. As I say in my proposal, life is not black and white, but is instead is just different shades of grey. I believe that TBR deserves a condemnation for their raiding practices, but that doesn't mean that they don't deserve commendation for the good things that result from their actions.

This last bit is an overall statement towards everybody: I have several new ideas for this proposal, and a draft with them incorporated into it will be released after some more research.

[Imperial States of the Empire]

In regards to the second part of your statement:
1) I don't want to commend the black riders because they are good at raiding. If you actually read the proposal instead of just spouting out anti-tbr comments, you would see that being good at raiding is not even close to the most important reason.
2) Yes, defenders get commended for being good at defending, because defending is a commendable thing, as long as you are good at it. However, it is not the sole reason that they are commended, just like how raiding is not the only reason raiders can deserve to be commended.

Raiding = Commendable Action
Raiding ≠ Only Commendable Action

First, The problem here is that raiding has a negative connotation.
Second, you are basically commending them for being well adept raiders. In your quote you said

I don't want to commend the black riders because they are good at raiding.

however, you then go about saying

defenders get commended for being good at defending... As long as you are good at it.

That to me sounds like you really don't have an argument for why the Council should commend the Black Riders.
Lastly, your proposal mentions

Citing the clear increase in activity in regions that have been tagged by The Black Riders, and the many friendships formed through discussion of them

I believe that the stanza is deeply flawed since the only reason the increase of activity began was due to your memebers raiding the region and settling there.
P.S The fact that this proposal comes from a Black Rider makes it biased and not compelling.
I plead for the members of the Council to not be fooled and never allow a commendation to The Black Riders pass.

[We Are Not the NSA]

In regards to the second part of your statement:
1) I don't want to commend the black riders because they are good at raiding. If you actually read the proposal instead of just spouting out anti-tbr comments, you would see that being good at raiding is not even close to the most important reason.
2) Yes, defenders get commended for being good at defending, because defending is a commendable thing, as long as you are good at it. However, it is not the sole reason that they are commended, just like how raiding is not the only reason raiders can deserve to be commended.

Raiding = Commendable Action
Raiding ≠ Only Commendable Action

First, The problem here is that raiding has a negative connotation.
Second, you are basically commending them for being well adept raiders. In your quote you said

I don't want to commend the black riders because they are good at raiding.

however, you then go about saying

defenders get commended for being good at defending... As long as you are good at it.

That to me sounds like you really don't have an argument for why the Council should commend the Black Riders.

- I address the first and second points in the post above yours. I left the word only out of that sentence. Let me ask you: would you condemn The Palace of Rebirth? No, because though they are raiders, they are not particularly good at it. That is what I meant when I said only good defenders get commended.

Lastly, your proposal mentions
Citing the clear increase in activity in regions that have been tagged by The Black Riders, and the many friendships formed through discussion of them

I believe that the stanza is deeply flawed since the only reason the increase of activity began was due to your memebers raiding the region and settling there.

- Yes? That is true, and that is what I am saying. It doesn't matter if the raiding is "negative", the outcome is positive.

P.S The fact that this proposal comes from a Black Rider makes it biased and not compelling.I plead for the members of the Council to not be fooled and never allow a commendation to The Black Riders pass.

Commending your own region is not illegal, and besides, who else is willing to risk their reputation by writing this? Anyone who submitted this who was not directly connected to TBR would be shunned out of NationStates. And would you be anymore compelled by this if it was written by a Black Hawk? No, a Black Rider is the only one who is capable of actually doing this.

[Imperial States of the Empire]

- I address the first and second points in the post above yours. I left the word only out of that sentence. Let me ask you: would you condemn The Palace of Rebirth? No, because though they are raiders, they are not particularly good at it. That is what I meant when I said only good defenders get commended.

- Yes? That is true, and that is what I am saying. It doesn't matter if the raiding is "negative", the outcome is positive.

Commending your own region is not illegal, and besides, who else is willing to risk their reputation by writing this? Anyone who submitted this who was not directly connected to TBR would be shunned out of NationStates. And would you be anymore compelled by this if it was written by a Black Hawk? No, a Black Rider is the only one who is capable of actually doing this.

- Thank you for adressing my points, and Yes it is true we would only condemn those whose raids have done substantial damage to other regions. Which TBR has done.
- Though I still do not see why the Council should commend such a region. Pardon me if I am being difficult but I am sure that other delagates are wondering the same; Why do YOU believe that The Black Riders Deserve to be commended?

- Now you said

... It doesn't matter matter if the raiding is "negative", the outcome is positive.

However, I seriosuly doubt the raiders of the region nor the coordinators of the raid have the best interest in mind for the region being raided. I would like to direct your attention to TBR's factbook entry "Raiding Guide." Now in it, it states that the objective of a raid is to occupy a region and "potentially destroying the region." It also goes on saying that the benefits of raiding are the following:

~Allows you to mark up region by changing the World Factbook Entry
~Allows you to kick out people from a region
~Allows you to occupy territory

-These points make your raids sound meticulously evil. Grant it, it does say that another benefit is "refounding" regions. However, having a Black Rider as the Delegate, having the original inhabitants kicked out, and changing the region's history by altering their Factbook entry can have absolutely no positive outcome. The only beneficiary here are the raiders and TBR region by extending their occupied territory.

- Lastly, you are right, it is not illegal to commend your own region. But you said so yourself, noone is willing to ruin their reputation because most of the members of the World Assembly agrees, TBR deserves absolutely no commendations but it should be kept under a watchful eye for its deplorable actions.

[Greater Nevadian Empire]

- Thank you for adressing my points, and Yes it is true we would only condemn those whose raids have done substantial damage to other regions. Which TBR has done.
- Though I still do not see why the Council should commend such a region. Pardon me if I am being difficult but I am sure that other delagates are wondering the same; Why do YOU believe that The Black Riders Deserve to be commended?

- Now you said

... It doesn't matter matter if the raiding is "negative", the outcome is positive.

However, I seriosuly doubt the raiders of the region nor the coordinators of the raid have the best interest in mind for the region being raided. I would like to direct your attention to TBR's factbook entry "Raiding Guide." Now in it, it states that the objective of a raid is to occupy a region and "potentially destroying the region." It also goes on saying that the benefits of raiding are the following:

~Allows you to mark up region by changing the World Factbook Entry
~Allows you to kick out people from a region
~Allows you to occupy territory

-These points make your raids sound meticulously evil. Grant it, it does say that another benefit is "refounding" regions. However, having a Black Rider as the Delegate, having the original inhabitants kicked out, and changing the region's history by altering their Factbook entry can have absolutely no positive outcome. The only beneficiary here are the raiders and TBR region by extending their occupied territory.

- Lastly, you are right, it is not illegal to commend your own region. But you said so yourself, noone is willing to ruin their reputation because most of the members of the World Assembly agrees, TBR deserves absolutely no commendations but it should be kept under a watchful eye for its deplorable actions.

The Riders have raided my region. Because of this the WA Delegate lost all power it has.

[Imperial States of the Empire]

- Thank you for adressing my points, and Yes it is true we would only condemn those whose raids have done substantial damage to other regions. Which TBR has done.
- Though I still do not see why the Council should commend such a region. Pardon me if I am being difficult but I am sure that other delagates are wondering the same; Why do YOU believe that The Black Riders Deserve to be commended?

- Now you said

However, I seriosuly doubt the raiders of the region nor the coordinators of the raid have the best interest in mind for the region being raided. I would like to direct your attention to TBR's factbook entry "Raiding Guide." Now in it, it states that the objective of a raid is to occupy a region and "potentially destroying the region." It also goes on saying that the benefits of raiding are the following:

~Allows you to mark up region by changing the World Factbook Entry
~Allows you to kick out people from a region
~Allows you to occupy territory

-These points make your raids sound meticulously evil. Grant it, it does say that another benefit is "refounding" regions. However, having a Black Rider as the Delegate, having the original inhabitants kicked out, and changing the region's history by altering their Factbook entry can have absolutely no positive outcome. The only beneficiary here are the raiders and TBR region by extending their occupied territory.

- Lastly, you are right, it is not illegal to commend your own region. But you said so yourself, noone is willing to ruin their reputation because most of the members of the World Assembly agrees, TBR deserves absolutely no commendations but it should be kept under a watchful eye for its deplorable actions.

The Riders have raided my region. Because of this the WA Delegate lost all power it has.

- Thank you for your input. The Nevadian Empire is one of hundreds of other nations affected by the Black Riders ruthless efforts of imperialism.
- If The Greater Nevadian Empire doesn't mind, I would like to ask the leader to please share their experience of the raid of his region for the Council delegates to read.

- The Nevadian Empire has sent me a telegram with their thoughts and first hand experience of a Black Riders raid:

On March 25, TBR moved about 5 nations into our region (The Unity of Nations Assembly). They dethroned our current delegate, The Most Serene Republic of Backatri, who only had 2 endorsements at the time and replaced with Logith, who then suppressed all forum posts (The Allied States of Balloon, along with Backatri and me, was one of the founding states of our region but later found out to be an invader from TBR and Backatri kicked him out, which may have been a major factor in their raid). After two or so hours, our ally The Insane Region moved several nations into our region and endorsed a new delegate. Backatri then removed all the power of the delegate. We have since formed a coalition against the Black Riders, including us, the Insane Region, and 5 or 6 other regions. It can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=335111&sid=6abd539851a93322d2dff030e68b20b4&start=25

-Needless to say, the Black Riders view of it creating positive outcomes are completely flawed.

[We Are Not the NSA]

The Riders have raided my region. Because of this the WA Delegate lost all power it has.

- Thank you for your input. The Nevadian Empire is one of hundreds of other nations affected by the Black Riders ruthless efforts of imperialism.
- If The Greater Nevadian Empire doesn't mind, I would like to ask the leader to please share their experience of the raid of his region for the Council delegates to read.

- The Nevadian Empire has sent me a telegram with their thoughts and first hand experience of a Black Riders raid:

On March 25, TBR moved about 5 nations into our region (The Unity of Nations Assembly). They dethroned our current delegate, The Most Serene Republic of Backatri, who only had 2 endorsements at the time and replaced with Logith, who then suppressed all forum posts (The Allied States of Balloon, along with Backatri and me, was one of the founding states of our region but later found out to be an invader from TBR and Backatri kicked him out, which may have been a major factor in their raid). After two or so hours, our ally The Insane Region moved several nations into our region and endorsed a new delegate. Backatri then removed all the power of the delegate. We have since formed a coalition against the Black Riders, including us, the Insane Region, and 5 or 6 other regions. It can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=335111&sid=6abd539851a93322d2dff030e68b20b4&start=25

-Needless to say, the Black Riders view of it creating positive outcomes are completely flawed.

Oh, he's that guy. I'm going to be completely honest, the fact that Balloon tried to infiltrate and that he got raided were complete coincidences. Balloon's actions actually don't factor in to this, as he was not a member of TBR when that happened, and I'm not sure if he is now (officially). He kind of showed up, and was like "I'm gonna go infiltrate a region" on the rmb. Eitherway, his infiltration was not General Staff sanctioned, as we have a strict method of approving infiltrations and Balloon did not even attempt to follow it. It had nothing to do with the tag. Tag raid targets are selected at random during the update.

Accepting that The Black Riders have instilled a greater interest in regional defense, regional politics and international diplomacy throughout the world,

And how is a new interregional alliance not a positive effect? Are you saying that it is a bad thing when regions work together?

[Imperial States of the Empire]

- Now you said

... It doesn't matter matter if the raiding is "negative", the outcome is positive.

However, I seriosuly doubt the raiders of the region nor the coordinators of the raid have the best interest in mind for the region being raided. I would like to direct your attention to TBR's factbook entry "Raiding Guide." Now in it, it states that the objective of a raid is to occupy a region and "potentially destroying the region." It also goes on saying that the benefits of raiding are the following:

~Allows you to mark up region by changing the World Factbook Entry
~Allows you to kick out people from a region
~Allows you to occupy territory

-These points make your raids sound meticulously evil. Grant it, it does say that another benefit is "refounding" regions. However, having a Black Rider as the Delegate, having the original inhabitants kicked out, and changing the region's history by altering their Factbook entry can have absolutely no positive outcome. The only beneficiary here are the raiders and TBR region by extending their occupied territory.

-Please address my aforementioned point.


-Regarding to the defective "unofficial" raider, did he act alone or other memebers of TBR helped as well?

- An interregional alliance is a perfect thing. However, the reasons for why it was created are shameful. It was created due to TBR being vast in numbers and its ability dismantle any well organized region.
- However, if it is true that your aforementioned point where the raider was not an official TBR member and was not vetted properly through the official channels, then is therefore nullified and irrelevant to your case as well as mine.

[Corvus Corax]

Of course most useful and interesting thing possible to do in this game is Commendworthy. There are nothing wrong in crashing and ruining people's regions, whom have in principle all means to make their regions safe and secure, against 'evil raiders'. I admit that there exist sort of infantile type of raiders, who can get some sadistic pleasure from raiding activities but they are minority within raiderdom. As a whole, building the organisation capable to do extensive R/D activities in coordinated manner requiring cooperation of tens and tens players all around the world is both extremely constructive, social and progressive course of action, and approach to the game.

It is one of funniest things in this game read morally outraged forum comments from the people who were not able to reach similar level of benevolent co-operation and co-ordination then raiders generally, and TBR particularly has manage to do, while these same people are often unable to use their own regions' administrative controls by themselves (some of them eventually learn that after few tags, they are minority). It is simply hilarious! Worth of doing, if anything in this game really are.

Personally, when I handle with whining nativedoms in a role of democratically elected raider delegate, I empty/delete directories in a Server located in Seattle. Often those directories are under control of their corresponding creators i.e. Founders, but for some reasons this people doesn't care a shit about security of their own creations even they have all tools and possibilities to make their creations safe against everything. It is really ridiculous thing and I don't personally feel any kind moral dilemmas if my actions will in practice make at least sometimes someone aware on his/hers possibilities and rights, granted by the Site and game mechanics.

This same people then call good gameplayer folks with terms which show for us raiders that often their accusations are an expression of their own inabilities, their own fault they must try transfer to a responsibility of others. That attitude prevents them to take lessons from their experiences. They want to be a god of their own creations, but they won't play as their self set role would require them to play. Commendworthiness of The Black Riders is based also to these things, we effectively give a lessons to people to care little bit more about their own regions and communities, they are unable to learn if they remain in a lul of false security, based on ridiculous assumptions about some sort of "higher level of ownership" related to a directory path of their regions, in a Server of The privately owned browser game.

Nazi accusation part of moral outrage is most hilarious for me personally as The Ex-Founder of Antifa. Damn I had to be that moderate myself.

[We Are Not the NSA]

- Now you said

However, I seriosuly doubt the raiders of the region nor the coordinators of the raid have the best interest in mind for the region being raided. I would like to direct your attention to TBR's factbook entry "Raiding Guide." Now in it, it states that the objective of a raid is to occupy a region and "potentially destroying the region." It also goes on saying that the benefits of raiding are the following:

~Allows you to mark up region by changing the World Factbook Entry
~Allows you to kick out people from a region
~Allows you to occupy territory

-These points make your raids sound meticulously evil. Grant it, it does say that another benefit is "refounding" regions. However, having a Black Rider as the Delegate, having the original inhabitants kicked out, and changing the region's history by altering their Factbook entry can have absolutely no positive outcome. The only beneficiary here are the raiders and TBR region by extending their occupied territory.

-Please address my aforementioned point.


-Regarding to the defective "unofficial" raider, did he act alone or other memebers of TBR helped as well?

- An interregional alliance is a perfect thing. However, the reasons for why it was created are shameful. It was created due to TBR being vast in numbers and its ability dismantle any well organized region.
- However, if it is true that your aforementioned point where the raider was not an official TBR member and was not vetted properly through the official channels, then is therefore nullified and irrelevant to your case as well as mine.

1) Sorry I didn't address those points, I completely missed that post . Raiding definitely has a degree of evil in it, I won't deny that, it's what makes it raiding a grey area. There are two main groups of regions that are tag raided. The first is active regions, who are able to restore their region. I am actually considering making a campaign to make the wfe search tool more widely used, as it would benefit tagged regions if they did not have it saved. This would not be detrimental to TBR because these regions would just change the wfe anyways. The second group of regions is inactive regions: regions where none of the natives actually care/notice what is happening.

2) Balloon acted on his own. Based off of what I found, the founder was looking for a WA Delegate and Balloon volunteered. He arrived directly from TBR and posted on our rmb that he was going to go mess with the region. I face palmed hard when I saw it. The fact that the same region was raided is purely a coincidence. It is hard to plan to target specific regions because of the hundreds of things that can wrong during the update. The only region that we ever plan to hit is My Little Pony, which we control and just do for fun every night.

3) The thing with interregional coalitions against TBR is that they almost never end up doing anything. They usually just end up talking to each other and forming better relationships. Its like if a group of real life countries joined together to defeat another, but just ended up making trade deals. Take The Coalition To Invade The Black Riders They have a large number embassies and members, but they are not even active. In my opinion, if groups like this are ever going to succeed, then they are going to need to find their Halcones; a leader capable of pioneering new defending methods, and is charismatic enough to unite each group. There are currently at three brand new coalitions, and none of them have shown any intent to work together.

[Imperial States of the Empire]

-Please address my aforementioned point.


-Regarding to the defective "unofficial" raider, did he act alone or other memebers of TBR helped as well?

- An interregional alliance is a perfect thing. However, the reasons for why it was created are shameful. It was created due to TBR being vast in numbers and its ability dismantle any well organized region.
- However, if it is true that your aforementioned point where the raider was not an official TBR member and was not vetted properly through the official channels, then is therefore nullified and irrelevant to your case as well as mine.

1) Sorry I didn't address those points, I completely missed that post . Raiding definitely has a degree of evil in it, I won't deny that, it's what makes it raiding a grey area. There are two main groups of regions that are tag raided. The first is active regions, who are able to restore their region. I am actually considering making a campaign to make the wfe search tool more widely used, as it would benefit tagged regions if they did not have it saved. This would not be detrimental to TBR because these regions would just change the wfe anyways. The second group of regions is inactive regions: regions where none of the natives actually care/notice what is happening.

2) Balloon acted on his own. Based off of what I found, the founder was looking for a WA Delegate and Balloon volunteered. He arrived directly from TBR and posted on our rmb that he was going to go mess with the region. I face palmed hard when I saw it. The fact that the same region was raided is purely a coincidence. It is hard to plan to target specific regions because of the hundreds of things that can wrong during the update. The only region that we ever plan to hit is My Little Pony, which we control and just do for fun every night.

3) The thing with interregional coalitions against TBR is that they almost never end up doing anything. They usually just end up talking to each other and forming better relationships. Its like if a group of real life countries joined together to defeat another, but just ended up making trade deals. Take The Coalition To Invade The Black Riders They have a large number embassies and members, but they are not even active. In my opinion, if groups like this are ever going to succeed, then they are going to need to find their Halcones; a leader capable of pioneering new defending methods, and is charismatic enough to unite each group. There are currently at three brand new coalitions, and none of them have shown any intent to work together.

- No need to apologize But thank you for addressing them. Now since you agree that raiding has its degree of evil in it then why should the Council commend an evil. My only issue is the fact that TBR raids already active regions. So in your draft of the proposal you should clarify by stating that the rise of activity only occurs in inactive regions. If TBR raids an inactive region, then I would not mind since the members of that region would not care or simply not notice. However, I commend you for your actions to make the wfe search tool more widely used. If your campaign for the wfe search tool succeeds then I will reconsider my stance on the commendation for TBR.

-When you saw the message on the rmb, did you or anyone else with authority attempt to stop Balloon? Or at least notify the targeted region's founder of an illegal raid targeting them?

- I do agree that these coalitions do little to progress as a whole against TBR but I do not blame them. What these interregional coalitions want is to see TBR be destroyed. That's impossible. TBR is too vast however, what they should do is push forth for a diplomatic resolve. Such as creating a treaty with TBR that does not allow them to raid any region within one of these interregional coalitions. It will be up to them to recruit more regions to join said coalitions.

[Rhinumehr]

I know this isn't what this thread is about, but does anyone know how to restore a WFE? I did not ever save mine, but do you know if there is a way to get it back anyway? And if not, how do you "save" it? Just by copying and pasting it and storing it somewhere else every once in a while, or is there an automatic WFE-saving thing?

Thanks!

When I say save it, I mean copy and paste to a dispatch or to a file on your computer.

This tool allows you to view past wfe

Thanks!

[We Are Not the NSA]

1) Sorry I didn't address those points, I completely missed that post . Raiding definitely has a degree of evil in it, I won't deny that, it's what makes it raiding a grey area. There are two main groups of regions that are tag raided. The first is active regions, who are able to restore their region. I am actually considering making a campaign to make the wfe search tool more widely used, as it would benefit tagged regions if they did not have it saved. This would not be detrimental to TBR because these regions would just change the wfe anyways. The second group of regions is inactive regions: regions where none of the natives actually care/notice what is happening.

2) Balloon acted on his own. Based off of what I found, the founder was looking for a WA Delegate and Balloon volunteered. He arrived directly from TBR and posted on our rmb that he was going to go mess with the region. I face palmed hard when I saw it. The fact that the same region was raided is purely a coincidence. It is hard to plan to target specific regions because of the hundreds of things that can wrong during the update. The only region that we ever plan to hit is My Little Pony, which we control and just do for fun every night.

3) The thing with interregional coalitions against TBR is that they almost never end up doing anything. They usually just end up talking to each other and forming better relationships. Its like if a group of real life countries joined together to defeat another, but just ended up making trade deals. Take The Coalition To Invade The Black Riders They have a large number embassies and members, but they are not even active. In my opinion, if groups like this are ever going to succeed, then they are going to need to find their Halcones; a leader capable of pioneering new defending methods, and is charismatic enough to unite each group. There are currently at three brand new coalitions, and none of them have shown any intent to work together.

- No need to apologize But thank you for addressing them. Now since you agree that raiding has its degree of evil in it then why should the Council commend an evil. My only issue is the fact that TBR raids already active regions. So in your draft of the proposal you should clarify by stating that the rise of activity only occurs in inactive regions. If TBR raids an inactive region, then I would not mind since the members of that region would not care or simply not notice. However, I commend you for your actions to make the wfe search tool more widely used. If your campaign for the wfe search tool succeeds then I will reconsider my stance on the commendation for TBR.

-When you saw the message on the rmb, did you or anyone else with authority attempt to stop Balloon? Or at least notify the targeted region's founder of an illegal raid targeting them?

- I do agree that these coalitions do little to progress as a whole against TBR but I do not blame them. What these interregional coalitions want is to see TBR be destroyed. That's impossible. TBR is too vast however, what they should do is push forth for a diplomatic resolve. Such as creating a treaty with TBR that does not allow them to raid any region within one of these interregional coalitions. It will be up to them to recruit more regions to join said coalitions.

I'm actually thinking about focusing less on the raiding in the next draft. It's the least compelling arguement in the draft. I'm going to focus more on cultural and ideological diversity. I have a busy week though, so a new draft won't be out for a while.

- He had only been in the region for a couple of minutes when he posted about it. Nobody in any position of power was on for a while. When I first noticed his post, he had already been ejected.

[Imperial States of the Empire]

Well when your new draft is posted, I will duely express my views though I still believe I will oppose it. I wish you the best of luck. Now regarding to Balloon and the region that was raided, I do believe an explanation is due.

[Toronina]

So you were helping those regions? Until I see some native comments I am going to call bullshit on that

[Evil Wolf]

Raiding ≠ Commendable Action

I would have to disagree.

[Ambroscus Koth]

Raiding ≠ Commendable Action

I would have to disagree.

To be fair, you were commended DESPITE your raiding history, not because of it

[Evil Wolf]

Well, maybe, but some of my commended actions were raids, so one can't claim that all raiding isn't a commendable action.

[Kaboomlandia]

Well, maybe, but some of my commended actions were raids, so one can't claim that all raiding isn't a commendable action.

Was Skydip not a raider as well?

[Evil Wolf]

Yeah, Skydip was raider-leaning, but his commend didn't specifically cite any raids.

[Aurum Rider]

So far everyone against this proposal is painting black and white, something duly pointed out by the proposal, and which the proposal is actually about.

The fact that the words "Raiding ≠ Commendable Action" have come up shows how cut and dry people think it is.
Defending is just Raiding with a different method of target selection, and for a different purpose. It's goal is still to promote, or keep a nation to WA Delegate status, and they still do it, regardless of whether they were asked for or not. Hell, some defenders even raid regions, and get praised for it. If you're going to argue against this, painting raiding as something that can only be detrimental is proof that you did not read the proposal.

EDIT: The verbs at the start of your clauses (I.E Applauding) should be capitalized in true WA style