SUBMITTED: Condemn Macedonia

[Velika Bulgariya]

Thank you all who helped my proposal reach quorum.

Well that's obsolete, now.

[Krioval]

OOC: Really? This is the best use of WA voting time and energy?

[Martyrdoom]

OOC: Really? This is the best use of WA voting time and energy?

Asking such questions is likely to get you condemned round here.

[Kalibarr]

no it will make people start ranting about the GA again.

[Jimmy Hart]

I have withdrawn my approval of this proposal since it is flawed.

[Unibot]

I have withdrawn my approval of this proposal since it is flawed.

Thanks Jimmy.

[Topid]

Our resolutions will almost be as meaningless as those of our sister body if they can be avoided by simply moving regions.

Macedonia is guilty of the same horrors that Macedon was, I have approved this proposal.

[Unibot]

Our resolutions will almost be as meaningless as those of our sister body if they can be avoided by simply moving regions.

Macedonia is guilty of the same horrors that Macedon was, I have approved this proposal.

We're not children, Topid. A new resolution calls for a new argument, or a more detailed argument atleast. This resolution merely cites the last resolution, and hopes that will be enough to rank in a second condemnation on the first one's fumes.

To top this cake off, Macedon supports the resolution because it hopes the WA will make a fool of itself by adopting this legislation.

[Sedgistan]

My issue with this (and I admit my view has changed several times on this resolution) is that if we pass this we set a precedent that when a region is condemned and then moves, we don't see the old condemnation as applying any more - so we need to condemn them again. If Macedon keep moving, or if Nazi Europe moves region, do they get condemned again? By extension, if Kandarin decides that Kandary is now his main nation, do we have to commend that as well?

[Samad ban]

Hey, how's that possible? It said it reached quorum yesterday, and voting ended. Now it says it lacks 2 votes, and voting ends soon?

Has this ever happened before?

[Topid]

3 minutes ago: The proposal "Condemn Macedonia" [The Constitutional Monarchy of Velika Bulgariya] failed to achieve quorum.

Hey, how's that possible? It said it reached quorum yesterday, and voting ended. Now it says it lacks 2 votes, and voting ends soon?

Has this ever happened before?

Yup, to me in fact. Unibot telegramed all delegates approving the proposal to get them to un-approve.

Yes Uni, I do think the arguement should be better. But the fact is, as I told you in a telegram, Macedonia is the home region of the most evil raiding organization in NS. That is a good enough reason for me to approve a condemnation of them.

Sedge, that would be different, commending Kandy's new nation for being controled by the same player as Kandarin is getting too OOC for even me.

[Samad ban]

Yup, to me in fact. Unibot telegramed all delegates approving the proposal to get them to un-approve.

Like, after the voting ended, you can STILL withdraw your vote?
Because voting on this resolution ended a day and a half ago. It is very confusing that another voting was held. And very suspicious as well...

[Topid]

Yup, to me in fact. Unibot telegramed all delegates approving the proposal to get them to un-approve.

Like, after the voting ended, you can STILL withdraw your vote?
Because voting on this resolution ended a day and a half ago. It is very confusing that another voting was held. And very suspicious as well...

Voting doesn't end when that says it ends. In fact the text there could be more clear...

Delegate voting ends when it goes to vote for everyone. If it hasn't met quorum by the time on the proposal it is removed.

[Velika Bulgariya]

Oh dear. I accept the failing of this proposal, and realise that it suffers from too many flaws for the WA to approve it. However, I do intend to re-draft, hopefully with the help of Unibot and other critics, and re-submit a Condemnation of Macedonia. My worry, however, is that this shall kill any chance of a revised proposal reaching quorum due to delegates believing that the flaws of the original would still remain in the revised version. I would like to ask you all if there is any chance of a revised proposal reaching quorum and being approved in the WA?

[Unibot]

Yes Uni, I do think the arguement should be better. But the fact is, as I told you in a telegram, Macedonia is the home region of the most evil raiding organization in NS. That is a good enough reason for me to approve a condemnation of them.

"The Most Evil Raiding Organization in NS" is Macedon, now, but that title changes between new organizations almost every year, or NS generation. We as the Security Council should not be so arbitrary in our proceedings as to condemn a region without atleast one new fact besides "they moved". A region has the power, and the right to move -- we shouldn't be condemning anyone on that basis, which leaves this resolution as a bland citation, and a regurgitation of SC#1.

If you want to condemn Macedon again, there are new arguments, and more detail that you can implement. For example, the situation in Bangladesh, is above the power of a liberation as Macedon is the founder of it. A condemnation could be of use there.

[Unibot]

Oh dear. I accept the failing of this proposal, and realise that it suffers from too many flaws for the WA to approve it. However, I do intend to re-draft, hopefully with the help of Unibot and other critics, and re-submit a Condemnation of Macedonia. My worry, however, is that this shall kill any chance of a revised proposal reaching quorum due to delegates believing that the flaws of the original would still remain in the revised version. I would like to ask you all if there is any chance of a revised proposal reaching quorum and being approved in the WA?

As I've stated above, I would recommend instead of attempting a second "generalized" condemnation of the entire Macedonian Empire, which SC#1 does a good job of already -- you should look to more specific cases and see where a liberation or condemnation is needed.

[Velika Bulgariya]

Yes Uni, I do think the arguement should be better. But the fact is, as I told you in a telegram, Macedonia is the home region of the most evil raiding organization in NS. That is a good enough reason for me to approve a condemnation of them.

"The Most Evil Raiding Organization in NS" is Macedon, now, but that title changes between new organizations almost every year, or NS generation. We as the Security Council should not be so arbitrary in our proceedings as to condemn a region without atleast one new fact besides "they moved". A region has the power, and the right to move -- we shouldn't be condemning anyone on that basis, which leaves this resolution as a bland citation, and a regurgitation of SC#1.

If you want to condemn Macedon again, there are new arguments, and more detail that you can implement. For example, the situation in Bangladesh, is above the power of a liberation as Macedon is the founder of it. A condemnation could be of use there.

The Bangladesh situation is pretty much the same with most of their Empire- Bulgaria, Greece, Hungary, etc. I think that they must raid the region, eject all the natives, leave it, and refound it as a Macedonian fief. It would probably end up as a ridiculous chain of condemnations.

[Unibot]

Yes Uni, I do think the arguement should be better. But the fact is, as I told you in a telegram, Macedonia is the home region of the most evil raiding organization in NS. That is a good enough reason for me to approve a condemnation of them.

"The Most Evil Raiding Organization in NS" is Macedon, now, but that title changes between new organizations almost every year, or NS generation. We as the Security Council should not be so arbitrary in our proceedings as to condemn a region without atleast one new fact besides "they moved". A region has the power, and the right to move -- we shouldn't be condemning anyone on that basis, which leaves this resolution as a bland citation, and a regurgitation of SC#1.

If you want to condemn Macedon again, there are new arguments, and more detail that you can implement. For example, the situation in Bangladesh, is above the power of a liberation as Macedon is the founder of it. A condemnation could be of use there.

The Bangladesh situation is pretty much the same with most of their Empire- Bulgaria, Greece, Hungary, etc. I think that they must raid the region, eject all the natives, leave it, and refound it as a Macedonian fief. It would probably end up as a ridiculous chain of condemnations.

Go where the most native support takes you, then mention in the resolution where Macedon has also used this tactic. *nod*

I've already talked to a Bangladesh native, he supports a condemnation of Macedon.

[Velika Bulgariya]

The problem is that these refounded regions have no trace of their native history. Take Hungary- it's been a Macedonian puppet for three or four years now (at least, that's as far as the RMB goes), and so, if any natives are left, it'd be virtually impossible to find any.

IDEA: I think I'll open a thread asking for natives to come forward. Which forum should that go in?

[Martyrdoom]

The problem is that these refounded regions have no trace of their native history. Take Hungary- it's been a Macedonian puppet for three or four years now (at least, that's as far as the RMB goes), and so, if any natives are left, it'd be virtually impossible to find any.

IDEA: I think I'll open a thread asking for natives to come forward. Which forum should that go in?

There's two native nations residing in Hungary now.

[Unibot]

The problem is that these refounded regions have no trace of their native history. Take Hungary- it's been a Macedonian puppet for three or four years now (at least, that's as far as the RMB goes), and so, if any natives are left, it'd be virtually impossible to find any.

IDEA: I think I'll open a thread asking for natives to come forward. Which forum should that go in?

This forum would be appropriate, so long as you keep the topic centric around a potential condemnation or liberation.

[Velika Bulgariya]

The problem is that these refounded regions have no trace of their native history. Take Hungary- it's been a Macedonian puppet for three or four years now (at least, that's as far as the RMB goes), and so, if any natives are left, it'd be virtually impossible to find any.

IDEA: I think I'll open a thread asking for natives to come forward. Which forum should that go in?

There's two native nations residing in Hungary now.

One, actually, and they're new. I'd prefer pre-Macedonian era natives who were attacked, ideally. The problem is knowing which ones actually existed and were raided-'n'-refounded, and which ones didn't exist until a Macedonist set it up.

[Martyrdoom]

The problem is that these refounded regions have no trace of their native history. Take Hungary- it's been a Macedonian puppet for three or four years now (at least, that's as far as the RMB goes), and so, if any natives are left, it'd be virtually impossible to find any.

IDEA: I think I'll open a thread asking for natives to come forward. Which forum should that go in?

There's two native nations residing in Hungary now.

One, actually, and they're new. I'd prefer pre-Macedonian era natives who were attacked, ideally. The problem is knowing which ones actually existed and were raided-'n'-refounded, and which ones didn't exist until a Macedonist set it up.

I'm spartacus!

[Topid]

We as the Security Council should not be so arbitrary in our proceedings as to condemn a region without atleast one new fact besides "they moved".

Other than the word 'new' I agree... But not to the extent that I do not approve a proposal.

A region has the power, and the right to move -- we shouldn't be condemning anyone on that basis, which leaves this resolution as a bland citation, and a regurgitation of SC#1.

No. I'd never say that. But if the The Security Council raided and destroyed thirty regions, was condemned, and then moved their home region to Security Council to avoid the condemnation and retired from raiding, I don't think they should remain un-condemned. We can use past info to condemn the organizations new home.

Now, I agree that the proposal should have acknowledged all the past actions taken by the Macodonian Empire by restating the info, and not simply saying 'Look what SC#1 said', and hopefully even go into more detail than SC1 did. But if it fails to do so I will still approve it because I still support the arguement behind it.

And as far as SC1 goes, it's pretty much dead. The region being condemned is an empty lifeless region. Instead of condemning the organization responsible for the acts, it now condemns three puppets.

[Unibot]

We as the Security Council should not be so arbitrary in our proceedings as to condemn a region without atleast one new fact besides "they moved".

Other than the word 'new' I agree... But not to the extent that I do not approve a proposal.

A region has the power, and the right to move -- we shouldn't be condemning anyone on that basis, which leaves this resolution as a bland citation, and a regurgitation of SC#1.

No. I'd never say that. But if the The Security Council raided and destroyed thirty regions, was condemned, and then moved their home region to Security Council to avoid the condemnation and retired from raiding, I don't think they should remain un-condemned. We can use past info to condemn the organizations new home.

Now, I agree that the proposal should have acknowledged all the past actions taken by the Macodonian Empire by restating the info, and not simply saying 'Look what SC#1 said', and hopefully even go into more detail than SC1 did. But if it fails to do so I will still approve it because I still support the arguement behind it.

And as far as SC1 goes, it's pretty much dead. The region being condemned is an empty lifeless region. Instead of condemning the organization responsible for the acts, it now condemns three puppets.

SC#1 condemned the entire Macedonian empire. Contrary to common beliefs, by leaving the region they have not 'uncondemned' themselves, that could not be done without a repeal (even a risky refounding cannot remove the legislative rhetoric that exists against them), in fact you could not be further from the truth -- by running from the WA they've empowered SC#1 even more.