[DEFEATED] Liberate Capitalist Paradise

[Nierr]

or you want to drag everyone into the raiding game like Mall tried.

Yep. You caught me. I want to drag every region into the raiding game.

Yours is next.

[Nation of Quebec]

Yeah, that proposal was not posted in good humour. It was posted to troll people.

Come on, and this one wasn't? At least be honest, Nierr. You know damn well you created this liberation for petty revenge against Afforess and you decided to punish a region of innocents to get that revenge. The fact that you continue to spread lies about Afforess and Capitalist Paradise is all the proof I need to know that this resolution was created because of your hatred of Afforess and NS++.

[Nierr]

What lies have I told?

[Nation of Quebec]

What lies have I told?

The fact that you outright accused Capitalist Paradise of farming IP addresses, passwords, and using espionage tools with no proof to back up your baseless accusations for one.

[Nierr]

I think you will find that I accused members of Capitalist Paradise of doing those things, not the region as a whole.

There is a difference there.

[Nation of Quebec]

You are still spreading lies to further your goal. That you are resorting to a smear campaign will only weaken your case against this ill-thought out proposal.

[Mundiferrum]

I think you will find that I accused members of Capitalist Paradise of doing those things, not the region as a whole.

There is a difference there.

Capitalist Paradise is indeed a threat to international peace. They were one of the first regions to recruit from UCRs, they support and advertise espionage tools that can be used to farm ips and passwords and that have in the past been used to take control of your nation.

*AHEM*

Adding to this, yes, NS++ can be used to farm IPs. But so could IRC channels, the forums, and so on, as the websites we're using naturally collect IPs. That issue's been addressed before, in this very forum!
Pretty much every argument you have dished out has been defeated, I believe.

[Nierr]

Ah, you see, that wasn't an accusation of farming IPs and passwords. That was a statement of fact. Those tools can be used to farm ips and passwords.

Edit: It's amusing to me that you think I'm actually arguing seriously for this proposal. If this proposal was going to pass the arguments in campaign telegrams were going to win it, not arguments in this forum. Unfortunately an rl event prevented me from campaigning straight from it going to vote, essentially removing any chance this had of passing.

The reactions are still amusing though.

[Mundiferrum]

Ah, you see, that wasn't an accusation of farming IPs and passwords. That was a statement of fact. Those tools can be used to farm ips and passwords.

But since your "statement of facts" implied that they were using it, they might as well be accusations. Yes, technically you didn't accuse them of anything, but that only furthers our point: if they weren't accused of anything, why bother trying them at all?

[Glen-Rhodes]

Yeah, that proposal was not posted in good humour. It was posted to troll people.

He posted it to keep people angry, because you guys were letting the mods shut down everything keeping the fire lit under them.


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[Nation of Quebec]

The onus is on you to come up with factual proof of your claims. Until you do you will continue to be called out on your baseless accusations.

Besides, even if NS++ did collect IPs it would be no different than the very forums we're using right now or anything else we use on the internet collecting them. Why make such a big deal about it if an optional browser extension did it?

[Nierr]

Yeah, that proposal was not posted in good humour. It was posted to troll people.

He posted it to keep people angry, because you guys were letting the mods shut down everything keeping the fire lit under them.

Yeah that particular theory isn't one anybody familiar with Afforess's character accepts.

And no, we were not letting the mods shut down anything. You know as much about our movement as you do anything claim to have knowledge of.

[Mundiferrum]

He posted it to keep people angry, because you guys were letting the mods shut down everything keeping the fire lit under them.

Yeah that particular theory isn't one anybody familiar with Afforess's character accepts.

And no, we were not letting the mods shut down anything. You know as much about our movement as you do anything claim to have knowledge of.

Although judging by your character in handling this proposal, and the character of this proposal in general, I do believe you're not part of that movement you think you're a part of.

[Upper America]

What lies have I told?

Just about everything you said in that proposal.

I think you will find that I accused members of Capitalist Paradise of doing those things, not the region as a whole.

There is a difference there.

And yet you try to ruin the whole region just because of one person? That's like blaming every cop in history for being racist just because of a few jerks.

or you want to drag everyone into the raiding game like Mall tried.

Yep. You caught me. I want to drag every region into the raiding game.

Yours is next.

Sorry, not gonna happen. Your proposal is bombing. It won't make it through the voting. I can guarantee any repeats aren't gonna work either.

[Nierr]

What lies have I told?

Just about everything you said in that proposal.

Let's examine that claim.

Noting this Council's mission statement to spread interregional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary.

This isn't a lie.

Declaring that peace is more important to the international community than goodwill

This, whilst being a subjective statementt, isn't a lie.

Acknowledging therefore, that sometimes goodwill must be sacrificed for peace, the World Assembly Security Council;

Also isn't a lie.

Recognises that the residents of Capitalist Paradise are not fulfilling the region's potential

Again, subjective, but again still not a lie.

Deciding that others could put Capitalist Paradise to better use

Subjective, not a lie.

Observes the presence of one or more nations who are engaged in dubious practices in Capitalist Paradise

Ok, should read were. At the time of writing it was accurate.

Hoping that one day this resolution will be able to contribute to the goal of fulfilling Capitalist Paradise's potential to the fullest

How can a hope be a lie?

Accepting that this might take some time

Realism: not a lie.

Hereby Liberates Capitalist Paradise

Also not a lie.

[Ostroeuropa]

I think they meant your telegram.

I represent a group of concerned members of World Assembly nations who have banded together to seek to redress a wrong. A wrong committed by members of the region Capitalist Paradise. You see, members of this region represent some of the most dubious among all of NationStates.
Capitalist Paradise was among the first nations to attempt to recruit from all regions when it was made legal. They also believe that your region doesn't have any right to exist. They think that Capitalist Paradise is the only 'real' region.
Capitalist Paradise also endorses and encourages the use of tools that can be used to take control of your nation. Indeed, this has already happened when code used to upvote posts made by the creators nation 'leaked' into the release code, causing those posts to become the most prominent in the world.
Members of Capitalist Paradise also recently attempted to Liberate an old and storied region called Haven, which has been home to some of NationStates most upstanding players. This was a Liberation that was unneeded and unwanted by the natives of Haven.
That same member of Capitalist Paradise also threatened to release into general use a password cracking tool and was promptly deleted by the moderators.
Normally this would all be worth a Condemnation rather than a Liberation but a Condemnation does nothing and would be treated as a badge of honour by the region. A Liberation puts a real threat on the region if the founder ever ceases to exist, because it would prevent any password being placed upon the region. It would be a real punishment for them.

Which group.

Whom do you represent.

Which wrong are you redressing.

Can you prove this wrong was committed against you by members of the region capitalist paradise.

Can you prove cap-par was one of the first regions to engage in UCR recruitment, and whats more prove this is a bad thing since as you admit, it's legal.

Can you prove that the region endorses these practices? That's a serious allegation.

Can you prove your allegations against the individuals you cite.

[Nierr]

1. Not my telegram.

2. They said I lied in the proposal.

[Ostroeuropa]

1. Not my telegram.

2. They said I lied in the proposal.

Then who sent it. It's from security council puppet.

[Nierr]

1. Not my telegram.

2. They said I lied in the proposal.

Then who sent it.

A very good question.

A nation named 'Security Council Puppet' that has now been deleted.

[Ostroeuropa]

Then who sent it.

A very good question.

A nation named 'Security Council Puppet' that has now been deleted.

And you deny any involvement or connection to this person?

[Nierr]

A very good question.

A nation named 'Security Council Puppet' that has now been deleted.

And you deny any involvement or connection to this person?

I did not send that telegram.

If I was going to campaign for this resolution I'd have done it from this nation, like I did when I campaigned for approvals.

[Ostroeuropa]

And you deny any involvement or connection to this person?

I did not send that telegram.

If I was going to campaign for this resolution I'd have done it from this nation, like I did when I campaigned for approvals.

So you will not deny connection or involvement with the person who sent the telegram.
I think that's all we need to know, really.

[Mundiferrum]

Just about everything you said in that proposal.

Let's examine that claim.

Noting this Council's mission statement to spread interregional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary.

This isn't a lie.

Duh

Declaring that peace is more important to the international community than goodwill

This, whilst being a subjective statementt, isn't a lie.

Subjective statements are not under the same standards as objective statements (ie things that can be defined as "truth" or "fiction"). Hence, this is neither truth nor fiction.

Acknowledging therefore, that sometimes goodwill must be sacrificed for peace, the World Assembly Security Council;

Also isn't a lie.

Again subjective. And misleading, as this resolution leads not to interregional peace and destroys goodwill.

Recognises that the residents of Capitalist Paradise are not fulfilling the region's potential

Again, subjective, but again still not a lie.

Again, subjective, so not subject to the system of truths/lies. But really, you don't even set standards for what is fulfilling to a region's potential, or heck what a "region's potential" even is.

Deciding that others could put Capitalist Paradise to better use

Subjective, not a lie.

What the hell is better use? Never defined in the constitution.

Observes the presence of one or more nations who are engaged in dubious practices in Capitalist Paradise

Ok, should read were. At the time of writing it was accurate.

Now it's not. And since this is a relatively big point in the proposal (seeing as the proposal doesn't have much meat in it, as most of the former lines were just fluff), the fact that Afforess is no longer a member of Capitalist Paradise destroys part of what your proposal is.

Hoping that one day this resolution will be able to contribute to the goal of fulfilling Capitalist Paradise's potential to the fullest

How can a hope be a lie?

Again, subjective things cannot be held to the same standards of "truth" as objective things. Stop committing fallacies here!

Accepting that this might take some time

Realism: not a lie.

Might. That word means that this statement is a hypothetical (or something), and hence cannot be said as true or false.

Hereby Liberates Capitalist Paradise

Also not a lie.

Because it's a damn action.

No, not everything in your proposal is lies, as most of your proposal is not held to the same standards as straight-up, verifiable claims. However, excluding the first line of your proposal (which is a load of fluff anyway that doesn't really push any points), those which can be determined as lies (mainly the mention, though not in name, of Afforess) are lies; hence, the sense of stating your proposal as "all lies" is true. Liar xD

[Nierr]

I did not send that telegram.

If I was going to campaign for this resolution I'd have done it from this nation, like I did when I campaigned for approvals.

So you will not deny connection or involvement with the person who sent the telegram.
I think that's all we need to know, really.

I did not send or write that telegram.

I do not know who is behind that puppet.

Are we done here? I'm sure you've got some feminist conspiracy to whine about in NSG.

-snip-

So, again, there is not a single lie in my resolution. Good to know.

[Ostroeuropa]

So you will not deny connection or involvement with the person who sent the telegram.
I think that's all we need to know, really.

I did not send or write that telegram.

I do not know who is behind that puppet..

That was easy enough, wasn't it.