[Submitted] Liberate Haven

[Mallorea and Riva]

http://www.nationstates.net/region=haven

Judging by the nationstates.net url I'd say that yes, it is in fact in this game.

You know I meant the R/D game right? The liberation proposal was meant to stop either Raiders or Defenders form controlling a region , I.e Game over, you said it yourself. Haven is neither Raider nor Defender.

The R/D game can be played in every region in the game, the game mechanics are always there (except school regions of course).

[Rephesus]

You know I meant the R/D game right? The liberation proposal was meant to stop either Raiders or Defenders form controlling a region , I.e Game over, you said it yourself. Haven is neither Raider nor Defender.

The R/D game can be played in every region in the game, the game mechanics are always there (except school regions of course).

Ether you're intentionally deflecting or having a hard time understanding.

I know that the R/D mechanic is built into the game, I also know that liberation a were made Explicitly for when R/D control over a region is undisputed. It is meant for when Raiders control a region and put passwords on it to prevent defenders from liberating it (Thus Liberation) .

It was not made for the reason of stripping RP regions of this passwords so raiders can vandalize and grief where they are not welcome. Yes, it can be used for that, but it isn't what the function is intended to do.

[Darwinish Brentsylvania]

You know I meant the R/D game right? The liberation proposal was meant to stop either Raiders or Defenders form controlling a region , I.e Game over, you said it yourself. Haven is neither Raider nor Defender.

The R/D game can be played in every region in the game, the game mechanics are always there (except school regions of course).

It can be played, and they don't want to play.

[Constaniana]

The R/D game can be played in every region in the game, the game mechanics are always there (except school regions of course).

It can be played, and they don't want to play.

What the people in Haven want is irrelevant to the reasoning behind this proposal. The only person's wishes that matter to the author are his own.

[Mallorea and Riva]

The R/D game can be played in every region in the game, the game mechanics are always there (except school regions of course).

Ether you're intentionally deflecting or having a hard time understanding.

I know that the R/D mechanic is built into the game, I also know that liberation a were made Explicitly for when R/D control over a region is undisputed. It is meant for when Raiders control a region and put passwords on it to prevent defenders from liberating it (Thus Liberation) .

It was not made for the reason of stripping RP regions of this passwords so raiders can vandalize and grief where they are not welcome. Yes, it can be used for that, but it isn't what the function is intended to do.

It certainly wasn't the primary intention I would imagine. But the SC has demonstrated already that weaponizing Liberations is acceptable, so this isn't anything new.

The R/D game can be played in every region in the game, the game mechanics are always there (except school regions of course).

It can be played, and they don't want to play.

I don't want the guy who always gets the spartan laser in Halo to kill me with it, and yet every freaking time they seem to. They're playing the same game as the rest of us.

[Chester Pearson]

It was not made for the reason of stripping RP regions of this passwords so raiders can vandalize and grief where they are not welcome. Yes, it can be used for that, but it isn't what the function is intended to do.

Didn't stop it from happening to Nazi Europe....

[Oaledonia]

Ether you're intentionally deflecting or having a hard time understanding.

I know that the R/D mechanic is built into the game, I also know that liberation a were made Explicitly for when R/D control over a region is undisputed. It is meant for when Raiders control a region and put passwords on it to prevent defenders from liberating it (Thus Liberation) .

It was not made for the reason of stripping RP regions of this passwords so raiders can vandalize and grief where they are not welcome. Yes, it can be used for that, but it isn't what the function is intended to do.

It certainly wasn't the primary intention I would imagine. But the SC has demonstrated already that weaponizing Liberations is acceptable, so this isn't anything new.

It can be played, and they don't want to play.

I don't want the guy who always gets the spartan laser in Halo to kill me with it, and yet every freaking time they seem to. They're playing the same game as the rest of us.

No. It's more like forge in Halo. Here we are enjoying building a world or map, then in comes one guy who spawns the Spartan laser and kills everyone. Want to stop it from happening? Then kick him and make it private, you don't have to play it his way. Now imagine that he got butthurt because he can't grief anymore, and was able to lobby to take away the ability to make the game private...

[Oaledonia]

What the R/D people need to understand is that no matter how hard they complain, there is going to be an opt out. Because we were promised one, but have yet to receive a working solution.

[Rephesus]

Ether you're intentionally deflecting or having a hard time understanding.

I know that the R/D mechanic is built into the game, I also know that liberation a were made Explicitly for when R/D control over a region is undisputed. It is meant for when Raiders control a region and put passwords on it to prevent defenders from liberating it (Thus Liberation) .

It was not made for the reason of stripping RP regions of this passwords so raiders can vandalize and grief where they are not welcome. Yes, it can be used for that, but it isn't what the function is intended to do.

It certainly wasn't the primary intention I would imagine. But the SC has demonstrated already that weaponizing Liberations is acceptable, so this isn't anything new.

It can be played, and they don't want to play.

I don't want the guy who always gets the spartan laser in Halo to kill me with it, and yet every freaking time they seem to. They're playing the same game as the rest of us.

I wasn't asking if it was acceptable, I was asking if you were aware you were exploiting the mechanic. Which you affirmed that you were just now.


Interesting analogy though, you're annoyed at something that happened in a game which you voluntarily played and were completely aware could happen which you yourself would be willing to do as well. IE a Raider hitting a Defender region.

Now if let's say you played a game, just you and some friends you were looking forward to having fun ect. all of a sudden a hacker comes in and uses an aim bot, ruins your game, bugs your Xbox and all the data on it, it crashes and now you can't play any games on it. Then because this is just something that could happen, you have to go out and buy a new one, start from scratch basically. And you pay for it, not the hacker.

That, would be the correct analogy.

[Mallorea and Riva]

It certainly wasn't the primary intention I would imagine. But the SC has demonstrated already that weaponizing Liberations is acceptable, so this isn't anything new. I don't want the guy who always gets the spartan laser in Halo to kill me with it, and yet every freaking time they seem to. They're playing the same game as the rest of us.

I wasn't asking if it was acceptable, I was asking if you were aware you were exploiting the mechanic. Which you affirmed that you were just now.


Interesting analogy though, you're annoyed at something that happened in a game which you voluntarily played and were completely aware could happen which you yourself would be willing to do as well. IE a Raider hitting a Defender region.

Now if let's say you played a game, just you and some friends you were looking forward to having fun ect. all of a sudden a hacker comes in and uses an aim bot, ruins your game, bugs your Xbox and all the data on it, it crashes and now you can't play any games on it. Then because this is just something that could happen, you have to go out and buy a new one, start from scratch basically. And you pay for it, not the hacker.

That, would be the correct analogy.

As I was saying before the game was so rudely interrupted...

That would only be a reasonable analogy if the game you were playing said in the FAQ that such a thing could happen. Obviously it doesn't. And obviously raiding does not hack your computer and put viruses into it etc. That's absurd. The FAQ of NS state that the invasion game exists, and even links to a helpful thread to prepare you for it. Your analogy doesn't hold together in any way.

[Applebania]

It was not made for the reason of stripping RP regions of this passwords so raiders can vandalize and grief where they are not welcome. Yes, it can be used for that, but it isn't what the function is intended to do.

Didn't stop it from happening to Nazi Europe....

Nazi Europe isn't an RP region, and it wasn't exactly innocent, either!

[Mallorea and Riva]

Didn't stop it from happening to Nazi Europe....

Nazi Europe isn't an RP region, and it wasn't exactly innocent, either!

Ehhhhhhh the underlined is pretty heavily debatable.

[The Fallen Jedi]

Nazi Europe isn't an RP region, and it wasn't exactly innocent, either!

Ehhhhhhh the underlined is pretty heavily debatable.

Regardless of this, it would be pretty obvious with the current number of people against this proposal, so it is bound to never make it to the Floor of the WA, even if it is, it will be defeated by an extremely large margin.

[The Candrian Empire]

Kinda concerned why a mod would put this forward when it's been done before and has caused massive amounts of anger from the RP community every time. Is it intentional trolling? or was it just an absent minded mistake by someone who clearly shouldn't be in charge of moderating a forum with this sort of divisive community?

[Chester Pearson]

Didn't stop it from happening to Nazi Europe....

Nazi Europe isn't an RP region, and it wasn't exactly innocent, either!

It isn't? Seems they are accused of role-playing Nazi's all the time, hence the hostility towards them....

As for innocence, I don't ever seem to remember a trial to determine that?

Kinda concerned why a mod would put this forward when it's been done before and has caused massive amounts of anger from the RP community every time. Is it intentional trolling? or was it just an absent minded mistake by someone who clearly shouldn't be in charge of moderating a forum with this sort of divisive community?

Please read the last 65 pages, before attempting to incite another flame war please?

[The Batorys]

Ether you're intentionally deflecting or having a hard time understanding.

I know that the R/D mechanic is built into the game, I also know that liberation a were made Explicitly for when R/D control over a region is undisputed. It is meant for when Raiders control a region and put passwords on it to prevent defenders from liberating it (Thus Liberation) .

It was not made for the reason of stripping RP regions of this passwords so raiders can vandalize and grief where they are not welcome. Yes, it can be used for that, but it isn't what the function is intended to do.

It certainly wasn't the primary intention I would imagine. But the SC has demonstrated already that weaponizing Liberations is acceptable, so this isn't anything new.

It can be played, and they don't want to play.

I don't want the guy who always gets the spartan laser in Halo to kill me with it, and yet every freaking time they seem to. They're playing the same game as the rest of us.

If you have to make people play your game in order for them to gain access to the things they actually want to do, maybe it's not such a great game.

The idea that R/D is so crappy that it needs to make people play is kinda sad, really. And it's perhaps the most scathing thing ever said about R/D.

[Aquitayne]

See what you did? You broke NS. Nice job.

[The Batorys]

Kinda concerned why a mod would put this forward when it's been done before and has caused massive amounts of anger from the RP community every time. Is it intentional trolling? or was it just an absent minded mistake by someone who clearly shouldn't be in charge of moderating a forum with this sort of divisive community?

Yeah... that's the thing.

Anybody who has paid any attention to NS would know that this would massively antagonize the RP community.

So Mallorea is either trolling, or he's an idiot.

[Prekonate]

Since my involvement is being brought up so frequently by M&R as evidence of a havenite admitting involvement, I should probably note... while ill always consider myself a havenite, im actually not sure where my primary nation was located when I participated -- it's likely that it was in Maredoratica. Im not sure im the best example for havenite involvement, my active haven period was like 2009-11, plus a return to defend the region when it was raided.

[Shadow Afforess]

I support the proposal to liberate haven because it makes Mall look like a massive jerk. Anything that undermines the authority of the moderators is good.

Burn baby, Burn.

[The Seafield Islands]

Just so you know, I'll be transferring my WA status from Seafieldia to this nation so I won't forget to vote AGAINST this resolution.

Those who don't want to play the R/D game should have the right not to play it. If there isn't any good reason to "liberate" this region called Haven, it only means that there is no reason to "liberate" that peaceful region. For raiders and defenders to play their game on that region does NOT count as a good reason.

If you want, you can just create your own region. Maybe a region named "Haven 2" or something would do?

[Trivval]

So Mallorea is either trolling, or he's an idiot.

Why not both?

[Questers]

Please read the last 65 pages, before attempting to incite another flame war please?

People have the right to make a comment on issues important to them without reading 65 pages of a thread - especially since the original proposal is unchanged.

[Elke and Elba]

Approvals back down to 41, from 44, including one which is buggy as seen from the Technical thread (incidentally the first approval).

Three updates left and 1 day and 9 hours, if this goes on well enough, it actually proves that an unapproval campaign of one which uses stamps is pretty possible (compared to Eireann Fae's Reproductive Freedoms which was manually TGing people and got bombed by stamped-fuelled TGs. Thankfully it passed thereafter.)

[Mallorea and Riva]

Please read the last 65 pages, before attempting to incite another flame war please?

People have the right to make a comment on issues important to them without reading 65 pages of a thread - especially since the original proposal is unchanged.

That's not entirely true. I did change the date of the password implementation on advice from a poster in here.