Infantry Discussion Thread 9: Parabellum [NO KAIJU]

[Gallia-]

mat needs to have a cr2 flag

then we just need damien here to complete the triumvirate

[Theodosiya]

How to fit a 13 man section in a 43 man platoon?

[Gallia-]

13*3+4

[Theodosiya]

13*3+4

Those 4 guys, what will be their role? Unless,they're the HQ section. And what do you think if one of the 13 men section replaced their LMG and launcher to bipod GPMG and ATGM?

[Fordorsia]

13*3+4

Those 4 guys, what will be their role? Unless,they're the HQ section. And what do you think if one of the 13 men section replaced their LMG and launcher to bipod GPMG and ATGM?

Swordsmen

[Immoren]

13*3+4

Those 4 guys, what will be their role? Unless,they're the HQ section. And what do you think if one of the 13 men section replaced their LMG and launcher to bipod GPMG and ATGM?

Platoon leader, Platoon second in command, medic and radioman.

[Husseinarti]

Well ATGMs could be issued to the Company and Platoon HQs so commanders can issue them as needed to mass ATGMs in a certain area.

[Theodosiya]

Hmm, how about this :
13x2 Section
13 Weapon Heavy Support Section (Auto rifle replaced by SAW,section SAW replaced with GPMG,disposables replaced with Carl Gustav,section Carl Gustav replaced with ATGM,probably Javelin)
Platoon "HQ" (Platoon Leader,2nd Command,Radioman,Medic)

[EsToVnIa]

Had to be weeks now b/c Ive worked literally every day since last Tuesday

Small bullets still run into the issue where they're small and have little mass. That constant inversion on the small, light body will cause a lot of drag, and it wont be able to overcome that drag as easily as a larger, heavier projectile. It may, therefore, fail to penetrate to sufficient depth as to cause a high probability of incapacitation.
They may also loose accuracy as some study somewhere showed.

http://www.geoffrey-kolbe.com/cgi-bin/d ... nsity=10.4

I tweaked the bullet so it's not retarded long

it's also anorexic now

I'm wondering if I can at least get it going at a keky m/v so that it is not entirely useless but i feel like that that probably isn't happening ~~

[Gallia-]

13*3+4

Those 4 guys, what will be their role? Unless,they're the HQ section. And what do you think if one of the 13 men section replaced their LMG and launcher to bipod GPMG and ATGM?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headquarters#Military

probably something like the lieutenant, platoon sergeant, radio operator, and medic (or a sniper if youre a baller) for a generic platoon HQ

but really you just need the first two

Hmm, how about this :
13x2 Section
13 Weapon Heavy Support Section (Auto rifle replaced by SAW,section SAW replaced with GPMG,disposables replaced with Carl Gustav,section Carl Gustav replaced with ATGM,probably Javelin)
Platoon "HQ" (Platoon Leader,2nd Command,Radioman,Medic)

no

three maneuver units is better than this

you dont need a "weapons section" or anything of the sort

[Purpelia]

What would be the size of squad/platoon etc. equivalent unit back Napoleonic times?

[Theodosiya]

Designated Marksman at fireteam or section level? And how to fit GPMG with bipod and ATGM in Platoon level as SOP? I wanted Mortar and HMG in Company, without ATGM cause they already issued in platoon.

[Immoren]

Designated Marksman at fireteam or section level? And how to fit GPMG with bipod and ATGM in Platoon level as SOP? I wanted Mortar and HMG in Company, without ATGM cause they already issued in platoon.

Issue such a rifle to infantry units that every infanteer has an option to act as a designated marksman.
Make bipod GPMG a SAW.
Company ought also have ATGMs so that company commander could have their own "anti-tank fist".

[Crookfur]

What would be the size of squad/platoon etc. equivalent unit back Napoleonic times?

Hihgly variable and different in every army and the terms are often all over the place, in british use A company was the administrative subsection of the battalion but the platoon was it tactical role.

However as a simplified general a platoon was half a company and a section was half a platoon

As such at max strangth of 1000men a british battalion would look soemthign like:
10 companies of 100 men each
20 Sub-divsions of 50 (what we would call a platoon these days)
40 sections of 25

so your basic answer is about 50 and about 25

[Theodosiya]

Designated Marksman at fireteam or section level? And how to fit GPMG with bipod and ATGM in Platoon level as SOP? I wanted Mortar and HMG in Company, without ATGM cause they already issued in platoon.

Issue such a rifle to infantry units that every infanteer has an option to act as a designated marksman.
Make bipod GPMG a SAW.
Company ought also have ATGMs so that company commander could have their own "anti-tank fist".

There's a reason US use specialised DMR.
Want a 7.62 NATO sprouting MG instead of mere 5.56 in platoon level.
Ok. ATGM at both platoon and company.

[Immoren]

Issue such a rifle to infantry units that every infanteer has an option to act as a designated marksman.
Make bipod GPMG a SAW.
Company ought also have ATGMs so that company commander could have their own "anti-tank fist".

There's a reason US use specialised DMR.
Want a 7.62 NATO sprouting MG instead of mere 5.56 in platoon level.
Ok. ATGM at both platoon and company.

Institutional inertia.
Don't have 5.56mm MGs. All MGs at least 7.62mm

[Gallia-]

Issue such a rifle to infantry units that every infanteer has an option to act as a designated marksman.
Make bipod GPMG a SAW.
Company ought also have ATGMs so that company commander could have their own "anti-tank fist".

There's a reason US use specialised DMR.
Want a 7.62 NATO sprouting MG instead of mere 5.56 in platoon level.
Ok. ATGM at both platoon and company.

Just give like two people in a section a Milan or something.

That is sufficient.

Company can have a dedicated anti-tank section with a few Javelins or something.

[Theodosiya]

There's a reason US use specialised DMR.
Want a 7.62 NATO sprouting MG instead of mere 5.56 in platoon level.
Ok. ATGM at both platoon and company.

Institutional inertia.
Don't have 5.56mm MGs. All MGs at least 7.62mm

Isn't SAW,MG4 and such are LMG?

There's a reason US use specialised DMR.
Want a 7.62 NATO sprouting MG instead of mere 5.56 in platoon level.
Ok. ATGM at both platoon and company.

Just give like two people in a section a Milan or something.

That is sufficient.

Company can have a dedicated anti-tank section with a few Javelins or something.

Another ATGM? Nein. Javelin all the way. Section got CG. Except one section in a platoon that receive it,others use cg.

[Gallia-]

If they are mechanized infantry then they can be fine with Javelin in each section if you're a bit loopy like the US Army.

If they are light infantry then the Javelin usually goes to the battalion unless you're the US Army.

If you are multi-trillionaires like the US Army you can afford to do this, everyone else makes do with lesser weapons.

[Immoren]

Isn't SAW,MG4 and such are LMG?

And thus we arrive to the wonderful world of terminology.

[Crookfur]

There's a reason US use specialised DMR.
Want a 7.62 NATO sprouting MG instead of mere 5.56 in platoon level.
Ok. ATGM at both platoon and company.

Just give like two people in a section a Milan or something.

That is sufficient.

Company can have a dedicated anti-tank section with a few Javelins or something.

Why no javelins for the sections? its pretty much the same overall system weight IIRC


Theodosiya: honestly i think you are trying to cram too much in at too low a level however with 13man sections it should be easily possible to stick a light role GPMG and a "proper" ATGM into each section although you may want to make the ATGM one of these optional things that mstsly stays in the wagon unless tanks are expected.

For the DMR, proabably a section asset but its also the sort of thing where you could just issue a bunch of at company level and let those who have passed the DMR course sort out who gets it.

[Gallia-]

Just give like two people in a section a Milan or something.

That is sufficient.

Company can have a dedicated anti-tank section with a few Javelins or something.

Why no javelins for the sections? its pretty much the same overall system weight IIRC

Because a section's load of Javelins (~3?) + CLU is broaching $1mn.

The US Army can afford to do it, barely, and it hasn't really contemplated using Javelin to replace the TOW yet despite the former's capability to do so. Even the best TOWs (BGM-71F2) are still a quarter what a single Javelin round costs, and BGM-71F is probably still more expensive than a Milan or something.

[Theodosiya]

If they are mechanized infantry then they can be fine with Javelin in each section if you're a bit loopy like the US Army.

If they are light infantry then the Javelin usually goes to the battalion unless you're the US Army.

If you are multi-trillionaires like the US Army you can afford to do this, everyone else makes do with lesser weapons.

Theodosiya ain't USA. Rich,but not as US. So, Javelins,HMG and 81mm in Comp.Platoon only got a GPMG.

[Immoren]

13 man squad.
Squad leader
1st fire team

Team leader
GPMG Gunner
GPMG Assistant
Guy with not!MBT LAW

2nd fire team

Team leader
GPMG Gunner
GPMG Assistant
Guy with not!MBT LAW

1st fire team

Team leader
GPMG Gunner
GPMG Assistant
Guy with not!SVD/M14

[Gallia-]

If they are mechanized infantry then they can be fine with Javelin in each section if you're a bit loopy like the US Army.

If they are light infantry then the Javelin usually goes to the battalion unless you're the US Army.

If you are multi-trillionaires like the US Army you can afford to do this, everyone else makes do with lesser weapons.

Theodosiya ain't USA. Rich,but not as US. So, Javelins,HMG and 81mm in Comp.Platoon only got a GPMG.

This is more like what a battalion might have, maybe.

A company probably would be fine with just Javelins, and the platoon can get TOWs on their IFVs or something, or motorized missile carriers if you're being super :US Army:

http://fas.org/man/dod-101/army/unit/toe/07247L200.htm
http://fas.org/man/dod-101/army/unit/toe/07037L000.htm

It's not really necessary to give an infantry platoon all the missiles in the world, though. The US Army was pretty unique in that it gave sections several forms of ATGW because it was terrified of all the tanks it would have to fight. It's not like you're going to be have infantry fighting without tanks nearby anyway, unless they're paratroopers I guess.