Infantry Discussion Thread, Mk. 8 Mod. 0 [No Kaiju]

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

The Husqvarna Kasapist (Kalspurvta Salshina Pisolet, Automatic Machine Pistol)

Hey I had more ideas and changed things.


The Husqvarna Kasapist (Kalspurvta Salshina Pisolet, Automatic Machine Pistol) was developed at the request of the Dnieguan Army for an Offensive Handgun System (OHW). The OHW project tendered results from three Companies besides Husqvarna, though only examples of Husqvarnas pistol remain.

The OHW project stipulated a capacity of at least 14 rounds with one additional in the chamber, an effective range of at least 70 meters, a threaded barrel and a mass of no more than 1.6 kilograms loaded. The system was to be equipped with a supressor and muzzle compensator, and should not have a mass greater than 3.5 kilograms when "fully configured". From the beginning the program suffered budgeting issues and poor resource management; reasons included general opinion against the role of an "offensive" handgun, and by and large a case against handguns all together. The project begrudgingly pushed forward.

Husqvarnas submission was unique in that it used a non-conventional blowback method, in which the bolt of the pistol began to move after the slide and barrel had already begun moving to the rear.*

Only remaining version with a mated suppressor, recovered from the body of an RkFyt m/56F Helicopter pilot in 1973; the camouflage pattern applied appears to be a very faded version of (German WWII Hinterhalt-Tarnung).

The Kaspist mounted a custom made 100mm long, 18mm dia suppressor with a unit weight of 475 grams, reducing the sound signature of their Kasapist machine pistol by 26 dbs. While not as significant as their competitors, who all managed to reduced sound levels by 28 dbs or more; these suppressors, however, were significantly larger and heavier.

Husqvarnas Machine Pistol outshone the competition, who had all submitted full sized semi-automatic handguns. The high rate of fire and large capacity was attractive, and ability to fire accurately and rapidly on targets at distances similar to that of Submachineguns was highly desirable, leading to the pistols eventual begrudging adoption. It came and went from service in just short of 15 years. While field reports of its combat ability were excellent, the mechanical complexity, cost and size made it far more economical to simply use Submachineguns or Carbines.



*You might note this is a lazy description of the AN-94s action. It kind of uses a similar action. Kind of. Hence the unusual choice of bolt and slide and hammer combination.

I hate this thing so much. Why would you put the idea in my head.

Does it make you consider suicide while in disassembly/cleaning?

[Fordorsia]

Philawergos never skipped leg day. Can you say the same?

I am too close to being b& to go around posting saucy thigh pics.

The mods are bluffing. They like your lewd pics.

[Puzikas]

Does it make you consider suicide while in disassembly/cleaning?

Probably.

[Aqizithiuda]

Nein nein nein. I mean a soldier armed with dory type spear,a medium to long one handed sword (slash and stab,not stab)or mace or axe(depends on the soldier preference and capability),several darts and a big square scutum that could be strapped. Armored with combination of segmentata or single solid steel plate over chainmail over padding,greaves, gauntlet and Imperial Gallic helmet. Pikemen got strapped hoplon, pike between 4-6/7m,personal weapon of choice(same with above). Armored with modified linothorax (combination of leather and linen overall torso protection,plus single solid steel plate for upper torso and steel scale for lower torso) and chalcidian or corinthian helmet.

You can't strap a scutum, at least, not comfortably, but you could theoretically use a spear with it and have plumbata held in pockets on the rear of the shield.

There's little point to having segmentata over mail. Segmentata was a standalone defence, as opposed to the single breastplate of the late 14th century, which required mail in order to protect the back. The gladius is also a slash and hack sword, which you may not be aware of, based on your post.

You won't be able to use a hoplon and a like together. They're not designed for that, and are used in different methods of warfare.

The point of the so-called linothorax (which was never actually used by the Greeks) is to be lighter and/or cheaper than metal armour. By adding steel plate and scales, you're making it as expensive, if not more so, than the armour worn by your other soldiers.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

Retiarius as light cavalry units/skirmishers/raiders.

y/n

[Khornatenreich]

Retiarius as light cavalry units/skirmishers/raiders.

y/n

N, because Gladiatorial units suck outside of the arena. What are you, some kind of Caligula?

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

Retiarius as light cavalry units/skirmishers/raiders.

y/n

N, because Gladiatorial units suck outside of the arena. What are you, some kind of Caligula?

Bitch I will stab all of your ocean.

[Khornatenreich]

N, because Gladiatorial units suck outside of the arena. What are you, some kind of Caligula?

Bitch I will stab all of your ocean.

"Suck my ludicrously debauched roman testicles Neptune!" ~ Caligula, probably

[Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502]

Nein nein nein. I mean a soldier armed with dory type spear,a medium to long one handed sword (slash and stab,not stab)or mace or axe(depends on the soldier preference and capability),several darts and a big square scutum that could be strapped. Armored with combination of segmentata or single solid steel plate over chainmail over padding,greaves, gauntlet and Imperial Gallic helmet. Pikemen got strapped hoplon, pike between 4-6/7m,personal weapon of choice(same with above). Armored with modified linothorax (combination of leather and linen overall torso protection,plus single solid steel plate for upper torso and steel scale for lower torso) and chalcidian or corinthian helmet.

You try carrying all that.

Does the average modern infantryman carry a sniper rifle, antitank missile, LMG, and shotgun? And does he wear enough armor to stop a .50 BMG? No, of course not. Give your infantrymen one weapon, whatever it may be, and let them get any armor they want. Extremely few nations before the age of nationalism outfitted their own soldiers; Rome is an exception, but that was only after they had a very sizeable empire. If you want a model for how to outfit an army in pre-Alexandrian times without going the extreme route of the Spartans, look at Thebes. The Sacred Band of Thebes gets lots of attention for being 150 pairs of lovers, the thought being they'd fight harder to not let down said lovers, but IMO the real reason it was one of the most respected groups of soldiers was because it was a small corps of handpicked soldiers, the champions of Thebes, lavishly outfitted at the expense of the state and trained as hard as any Spartan. Then, in times of war, they'd go to war supported by(or supporting) the main body of Theban soldiers, the citizen hoplites. Perhaps they were not as widely feared as the Spartans, but they were still a force anyone would think twice about facing. They defeated the Spartans with Epaminondas's military reforms that Philip picked up, but nonetheless the Sacred Band is something which deserves more attention.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

I have something similar, but for totally different reasons.

[Fordorsia]

I still think your lesbian sacred band is retarded

[Yukonastan]

werewolves should be smart enough to not go across the border tbh

Tru tru. Russians aren't the most polite when it comes to border crossing, however.

[The Archangel Conglomerate]

Does anyone know anything about this lot?


Specifically those based on the 5,7mm FN.

E: The accompanying blurb "5.7 x 28 P90 related items. There are 3 case types here: .22 Magnum (2nd round is a triplex loading), 5.7 x 27(short neck) and normal 5.7 x 28 (end round has duplex projectile."

[Purpelia]

That is in fact not true. Not at all. The sort of fully encompassing suit of plate that covers the entire body did not really enter wide circulation until the late middle ages. And even than it was newer the norm for most troops. So for most of the period people did in fact wear chainmail in combination with plate both in the form of individual sleeves, leggings etc. attached to the plate armor and full on chain hauberk worn under a plate cuirass. In fact, for a very long period the cuirass it self was not fully encompassing and only covered the front. So you would wear a hauberk under your plate and that would be your back protection.

I'm pretty sure he's talking in terms of a full cuirass with mail underneath it, which was never done, and for reasons which should be obvious. I'd love a source if you think otherwise, because wearing mail under a full cuirass makes no sense.

It makes sense if:
1. Your cuirass is front only and the back is exposed. Something which was very much a thing during the early centuries of plate being adopted in Europe.
2. You are a knight in the transitional period where plate was just coming into play and the helmet and cuirass are the only pieces of plate you have. So you use the chain shirt to provide for sleaves as well as neck and lower chest protection. Again a standard of the era.
3. You have cheap munition grade plate made from unhardened steel.
etc.

The fully enclosed suit of ghotic armor you picture when you think of knights really was not the standard for most of European history. And there was in fact NOT an immediate switch from one to the other.

[Aqizithiuda]

Does anyone know anything about this lot?

(Image)
Specifically those based on the 5,7mm FN.

E: The accompanying blurb "5.7 x 28 P90 related items. There are 3 case types here: .22 Magnum (2nd round is a triplex loading), 5.7 x 27(short neck) and normal 5.7 x 28 (end round has duplex projectile."

You know as much as we do. They're mostly just experimental APDS projectiles, with some multiplex loadings scattered among them.

[Husseinarti]

Does the average modern infantryman carry a sniper rifle, antitank missile, LMG, and shotgun? And does he wear enough armor to stop a .50 BMG?

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

It just occured to me there can be no election if there are no nominations.

THIS IS MY NOMINATION. THERE ARE MANY LIKE IT BUT THIS ONE IS MINE: A Q U I Z

[Alimeria-]

THIS IS MY NOMINATION. THERE ARE MANY LIKE IT BUT THIS ONE IS MINE: Ulfr

[Fordorsia]

Not aqiz, that shitposter

I'm pretty sure he's talking in terms of a full cuirass with mail underneath it, which was never done, and for reasons which should be obvious. I'd love a source if you think otherwise, because wearing mail under a full cuirass makes no sense.

It makes sense if:
1. Your cuirass is front only and the back is exposed. Something which was very much a thing during the early centuries of plate being adopted in Europe.
2. You are a knight in the transitional period where plate was just coming into play and the helmet and cuirass are the only pieces of plate you have. So you use the chain shirt to provide for sleaves as well as neck and lower chest protection. Again a standard of the era.
3. You have cheap munition grade plate made from unhardened steel.
etc.

The fully enclosed suit of ghotic armor you picture when you think of knights really was not the standard for most of European history. And there was in fact NOT an immediate switch from one to the other.

So since it was only done during the transitional period, it makes even less sense to do it in antiquity with lorica segmentata (even though you physically couldn't do it with segmentata)

[Aqizithiuda]

Not aqiz, that shitposter

It makes sense if:
1. Your cuirass is front only and the back is exposed. Something which was very much a thing during the early centuries of plate being adopted in Europe.
2. You are a knight in the transitional period where plate was just coming into play and the helmet and cuirass are the only pieces of plate you have. So you use the chain shirt to provide for sleaves as well as neck and lower chest protection. Again a standard of the era.
3. You have cheap munition grade plate made from unhardened steel.
etc.

The fully enclosed suit of ghotic armor you picture when you think of knights really was not the standard for most of European history. And there was in fact NOT an immediate switch from one to the other.

So since it was only done during the transitional period, it makes even less sense to do it in antiquity with lorica segmentata (even though you physically couldn't do it with segmentata)

You could absolutely do it with the segmentata. It's really no different from wearing mail under a brigandine or under a gambeson.

[Fordorsia]

Not aqiz, that shitposter



So since it was only done during the transitional period, it makes even less sense to do it in antiquity with lorica segmentata (even though you physically couldn't do it with segmentata)

You could absolutely do it with the segmentata. It's really no different from wearing mail under a brigandine or under a gambeson.

From what I've seen of segmentata, it's too tightly fitting for mail, at least to be worn comfortably and not restrict the wear.

[Purpelia]

So since it was only done during the transitional period, it makes even less sense to do it in antiquity with lorica segmentata (even though you physically couldn't do it with segmentata)

I am not contesting that. All I am contesting is the idea that it was newer done at all. This said, I could absolutely see a combination linothorax and hauberk being plausible.

Really the issue here is not one of plausibility but the fact that it would be very much out of place for the period.

[Crookfur]

Does the average modern infantryman carry a sniper rifle, antitank missile, LMG, and shotgun? And does he wear enough armor to stop a .50 BMG?

This guy is getting close.

or maybe he just enjoys playing the heavy support role in shooters.

[Aqizithiuda]

You could absolutely do it with the segmentata. It's really no different from wearing mail under a brigandine or under a gambeson.

From what I've seen of segmentata, it's too tightly fitting for mail, at least to be worn comfortably and not restrict the wear.

It doesn't look all that right fitting to me.

[Fordorsia]

From what I've seen of segmentata, it's too tightly fitting for mail, at least to be worn comfortably and not restrict the wear.

It doesn't look all that right fitting to me.

Not tight fitting to the body itself, but the padding underneath.