NS Military Realism Consultation Thread Type 08

[Gallia-]

wow 80 pistols

clearly a highly porous border with the united states perhaps the uk should just build a wall around the island

Handguns are completely banned in Britain.
Eighty was what he was caught with on the last smuggling run he did.

so?

mexico is a far more porous border when it comes to arms trafficking (both ways) and drugs

aside from that, the prevalence of firearms and firearm ownership, illegal or otherwise, in the usa is a major hazard that doesnt exist anywhere in europe

[Imperializt Russia]

I think we've missed the point here, which is that weapons smuggled into the US seem to pale in comparison to weapons smuggled out of it, due to the great abundance of legal weapons in the US that can be acquired and moved.

[Gallia-]

firearms smuggled out of te usa typically provide capital to buy more firearms to smuggle out of the usa to provide capital...

the capital flow is the primary concern, not whether theyre exporting firearms or plastique

[Palakistan]

Well I think controlling illegal gun exports is good, but controlling the ownership of guns is bad. That won't help one bit, even if you make it illegal to own guns. Most of the gangs, terrorists and violent people own their guns illegally. That would leave the poor unarmed citizen to fight with rocks. At least where I live, you can own assault rifles and machine guns. Many people carry weapons wherever they go and many more conceal carry. I feel really safe. Way safer than back in that other place that I won't mention that has restrictive gun laws.

[Padnak]

firearms smuggled out of te usa typically provide capital to buy more firearms to smuggle out of the usa to provide capital...

the capital flow is the primary concern, not whether theyre exporting firearms or plastique

Isn't this the same for any smuggling operation anywhere? To produce profit with which to continue the operation and provide income to the smuggler/smugglers?

[Radictistan]

Since someone brought up Russian TOE, does anyone (i.e. Allanea) know how Russian signals are set up? Is there an equivalent to MSE/whatever replaced MSE in the U.S. My Google-fu hasn't found the kind of equipment for running trunk systems.

[Aelarus]

How necessary is a light four wheeled utility vehicle a la Humvee?

[Padnak]

How necessary is a light four wheeled utility vehicle a la Humvee?

Very

they have more uses then I can count

[Mitheldalond]

My amphibious assault groups are designed to deploy a (small) division-sized force each. They also have 5 dozen CH-53Ks each. Should I put all 60 King Stallions under division command, or assign a squadron permanently to each regiment/brigade and put the rest under division command?

[Gallia-]

Well I think controlling illegal gun exports is good, but controlling the ownership of guns is bad. That won't help one bit, even if you make it illegal to own guns. Most of the gangs, terrorists and violent people own their guns illegally. That would leave the poor unarmed citizen to fight with rocks. At least where I live, you can own assault rifles and machine guns. Many people carry weapons wherever they go and many more conceal carry. I feel really safe. Way safer than back in that other place that I won't mention that has restrictive gun laws.

Most gun violence in America is attributed to legal firearms owners, actually. You would be helping prevent people from blowing their brains out over the ceiling if you strictly control for gun ownership, but given the USA's porous border this likely would have little effect on homicides.

[Aelarus]

Very

they have more uses then I can count

How many of those can't be replicated by a utility truck with more wheels or perhaps even an armored APC?

[The Akasha Colony]

Very

they have more uses then I can count

How many of those can't be replicated by a utility truck with more wheels or perhaps even an armored APC?

It's the same as the previous discussion. You could run your logistics entirely on Humvees. You could also run them entirely on HEMTTs. Both would be impractical. There is a reason why multiple types of vehicle exist, and there is a reason why the Humvee is the most numerous vehicle in US Army inventory. Using a heavier vehicle for basic liaison and miscellaneous transport, as well as a basic platform for other variants would be a waste of money.

[Elan Valleys]

My amphibious assault groups are designed to deploy a (small) division-sized force each. They also have 5 dozen CH-53Ks each. Should I put all 60 King Stallions under division command, or assign a squadron permanently to each regiment/brigade and put the rest under division command?

Divisional command. That way you can use them all even if you keep a brigade on the ships as a reserve.

[Arthurista]

Well I think controlling illegal gun exports is good, but controlling the ownership of guns is bad. That won't help one bit, even if you make it illegal to own guns. Most of the gangs, terrorists and violent people own their guns illegally. That would leave the poor unarmed citizen to fight with rocks. At least where I live, you can own assault rifles and machine guns. Many people carry weapons wherever they go and many more conceal carry. I feel really safe. Way safer than back in that other place that I won't mention that has restrictive gun laws.

What most right-wing Americans don't seem to get is that the whole gun-ownership thing over there is the result of a local cultural phenomenon, not some sort of universal-truth that they somehow got right. You can very easily get guns legally in large swathes in Europe - some of the most notorious massed shootings over here - Erfurt and Breivik, for instance, involved perfectly legal, licensed weapons. What we don't have is an obsessive gun-culture - firearms are for military/security professionals, sportsmen and hunters, not venerated on a pedestal.

In other news, I just bought a bunch of airborne light tanks and APCs, though not entirely sure whether to mechanise the whole parachute/airlanding force. That sounds like an absolute nightmare to transport and deploy, even with A-400Ms and not-Antonovs - one wonders how the VDV could drop all-BMD divisions in its glory days. Is a good compromise just to keep them light and retain the vehicles in a central pool, and issue them to battlegroups as and when needed?

[Imperializt Russia]

Well I think controlling illegal gun exports is good, but controlling the ownership of guns is bad. That won't help one bit, even if you make it illegal to own guns. Most of the gangs, terrorists and violent people own their guns illegally. That would leave the poor unarmed citizen to fight with rocks. At least where I live, you can own assault rifles and machine guns. Many people carry weapons wherever they go and many more conceal carry. I feel really safe. Way safer than back in that other place that I won't mention that has restrictive gun laws.

I do not have a need for a defensive firearm and know of only one person who has had such a need. He was held up at gunpoint outside my house.
Of course he was drunk so having his own firearm wouldn't have helped him much and might have gotten him killed.

This is what gun culture is.

[Vedria]

Would it be possible to adapt MLRS launch modules, say, from an M270 or an Uragan, to launch SAMs? Would such a thing be possible in a "two-in-one" sort of system?

[Questers]

In most developed countries, yes. In East Asia, yes.

In America, noooooo.

Not quite universally true in East Asia. In Hong Kong uniformed police officers on street patrol carry S&W .38 revolvers.

South East Asia is pretty much armed police HQ.

I am against armed police, obviously.

When I was growing up the armed response unit was only called out once. Some bloke took out a samurai sword on the A1079 and started waving it about. Armed response officers arrived with MP5s and said put the sword down mate and he said ok. Later he went to prison or a mental hospital or something.

But when I was growing up I also shot clay pigeons semi-competitively and hunted with both shotguns and rifles. I don't think citizens should be allowed a lot of the arms they get in America, but British laws are a bit too strict. What's the problem with me owning, I dunno, a Garand? If I can get hold of a Lee Enfield why not let me own a Garand? Seems dumb.

The police don't need to be armed. They need to have access to firearms.

If you actually need police to be armed, especially outside of highly rural areas, that is a symptom of a big problem in your society, sorry. That big problem might be lack of homogenity (murica) or it might be too many guns (I don't think so) or it might be because you live in a dictatorship. Who knows.

[Imperializt Russia]

Would it be possible to adapt MLRS launch modules, say, from an M270 or an Uragan, to launch SAMs? Would such a thing be possible in a "two-in-one" sort of system?

If it fits in the launcher box, then possibly. But there would be no point. You'd lack any of the equipment to launch SAMs and find targets.
It would be far more useful to recycle the vehicle chassis, and make a dedicated SAM variant.

[The Akasha Colony]

Would it be possible to adapt MLRS launch modules, say, from an M270 or an Uragan, to launch SAMs? Would such a thing be possible in a "two-in-one" sort of system?

AMRAAM can be fired out of an M270 box (with modifications, of course). The launcher vehicle itself could be common between rocket and SAM applications. But as Samoz points out, you'd still need the fire control radar and command systems for SAM engagement, so a regular rocket battery without these wouldn't be able to just swap in new pods and suddenly become a SAM unit.

[Tule]

Not quite universally true in East Asia. In Hong Kong uniformed police officers on street patrol carry S&W .38 revolvers.

South East Asia is pretty much armed police HQ.

I am against armed police, obviously.

When I was growing up the armed response unit was only called out once. Some bloke took out a samurai sword on the A1079 and started waving it about. Armed response officers arrived with MP5s and said put the sword down mate and he said ok. Later he went to prison or a mental hospital or something.

But when I was growing up I also shot clay pigeons semi-competitively and hunted with both shotguns and rifles. I don't think citizens should be allowed a lot of the arms they get in America, but British laws are a bit too strict. What's the problem with me owning, I dunno, a Garand? If I can get hold of a Lee Enfield why not let me own a Garand? Seems dumb.

The police don't need to be armed. They need to have access to firearms.

If you actually need police to be armed, especially outside of highly rural areas, that is a symptom of a big problem in your society, sorry. That big problem might be lack of homogenity (murica) or it might be too many guns (I don't think so) or it might be because you live in a dictatorship. Who knows.

Getting any kind of weapon here requires a license and a "proof of need" for that weapon.
This is a good way to keep gun ownership from spiralling out of control, and I somewhat agree with this approach, but it has some strange and needless results IMO.

APPLICANT: "Can I get a Browning Auto-5?"
POLICE: "Sure, those geese don't shoot themselves!"
APPLICANT: "Cool!, can I get a .32 pistol for competition shooting?"
POLICE: "Of course, can't shoot 25m Centerfire pistol without a pistol!"
APPLICANT: "Right then thanks, Can I get a Brown Bess?"
POLICE: "NO!"
APPLICANT: "But surely the 870 and the .38 are more dangerous?"
POLICE: "THE BROWN BESS DOES NOT HAVE A HUNTING OR A SPORTING PURPOSE! APPLICATION DENIED"
APPLICANT: ;_;

Police here are unarmed as well, which has worked pretty well so far.

[Spirit of Hope]

While I find this whole discussion of guns and politics interesting it is really more applicable to General, where I know there are some very nice threads discussing gun rights, the second amendment, mass shootings, police brutality, and making the police an army.

Would it be possible to adapt MLRS launch modules, say, from an M270 or an Uragan, to launch SAMs? Would such a thing be possible in a "two-in-one" sort of system?

If it fits in the launcher box, then possibly. But there would be no point. You'd lack any of the equipment to launch SAMs and find targets.
It would be far more useful to recycle the vehicle chassis, and make a dedicated SAM variant.

An interesting question would be, could you use radars that may already be deployed with the rocket artillery with SAMs? I mean if you have radar to help spot enemy artillery you could maybe also use it to spot enemy planes and helicopters. I don't think it would work that well but it could be something interesting to play with. It would almost certainly be easier to just have separate dedicated anti air units though.

[Immoren]

In Finland, 16-years old can (or at least could previously) have a hunting shotgun (with a parental permission), but sparklers are "can't be sold to those under eighteen"-.

[Palakistan]

Well I think controlling illegal gun exports is good, but controlling the ownership of guns is bad. That won't help one bit, even if you make it illegal to own guns. Most of the gangs, terrorists and violent people own their guns illegally. That would leave the poor unarmed citizen to fight with rocks. At least where I live, you can own assault rifles and machine guns. Many people carry weapons wherever they go and many more conceal carry. I feel really safe. Way safer than back in that other place that I won't mention that has restrictive gun laws.

I do not have a need for a defensive firearm and know of only one person who has had such a need. He was held up at gunpoint outside my house.
Of course he was drunk so having his own firearm wouldn't have helped him much and might have gotten him killed.

This is what gun culture is.

Lol. He was drunk with a gun! Well my premise is, an unarmed citizenry is a vulnerable citizenry. The government, either foreign or domestic could control the populace. I for one want to protect th people from my government, and from any foreign government.

[Imperializt Russia]

If it fits in the launcher box, then possibly. But there would be no point. You'd lack any of the equipment to launch SAMs and find targets.
It would be far more useful to recycle the vehicle chassis, and make a dedicated SAM variant.

An interesting question would be, could you use radars that may already be deployed with the rocket artillery with SAMs? I mean if you have radar to help spot enemy artillery you could maybe also use it to spot enemy planes and helicopters. I don't think it would work that well but it could be something interesting to play with. It would almost certainly be easier to just have separate dedicated anti air units though.

It's certainly doable, it would just be entirely arduous.

[The Akasha Colony]

Lol. He was drunk with a gun! Well my premise is, an unarmed citizenry is a vulnerable citizenry. The government, either foreign or domestic could control the populace. I for one want to protect th people from my government, and from any foreign government.

If your government has a competent modern military force, then the people would be no match for it. Even back in the Revolutionary War, as much as people like to play up the Minuteman myth, militia troops in general were unreliable and of very limited use. The real fighting was done by professional soldiers on both sides. And it's even worse today, because what do a bunch of guys with rifles do against a trained military that can call on tanks, Humvees, Strykers, attack helicopters, drones, and most importantly, a trained, cohesive fighting force with an organized chain of command that can properly employ these weapons?

The same is true in fending off foreign invasions. If the Russians somehow managed to invade from Canada, the local gun club isn't exactly going to put up much resistance to the 4th Guards Tank Brigade.