Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation [NO MECHS] Mark 8

[Fordorsia]

Better yet use them as extra armour : D


So back when I had done a lot of work on the only scaled tank I've ever attempted, I learned that the armour was waaay too thick. I found out that the armour values on modern tanks are the RHA equivalent, not the actual thickness. Any idea on how thick the armour is on modern MBTs? I know they're usually classified but even a guess would help.

It's actually not that far off. The Abrams' front turret armor is close to a meter in LOS thickness. Your hull armor is pretty good, although the lower front hull seems a bit thin.

Well my mantlet is nearly 1.5m so I guess that's good.

Are you sure about the hull? According to this the hull armour of the Abrams seems pretty thin. Nowhere near the 400mm on mine.

Better yet use them as extra armour : D


So back when I had done a lot of work on the only scaled tank I've ever attempted, I learned that the armour was waaay too thick. I found out that the armour values on modern tanks are the RHA equivalent, not the actual thickness. Any idea on how thick the armour is on modern MBTs? I know they're usually classified but even a guess would help.

Not including slopes, modern armour is only like 1.31.3 te max for ke and like 2 for ce.

I have absolutely no idea what any of that means

[Eldslandet]

I don't think that's an ideal layout.
A more useful layout would be using a combustion engine as the generator to power an electric motor, commonly referred to as diesel electric.

Issues with this layout include weight and bulk (you effectively have two large engines), but you can eliminate a fair chunk of the drivetrain so it may be compensated by this.

Any other pros/cons? And exactly how big is "two large engines"? Would it fit in say, an Abrams?

Why not just use Hydrogen engines? (At the small risk of blowing up when the fuel is hit)

[Tule]

Not including slopes, modern armour is only like 1.31.3 te max for ke and like 2 for ce.

I have absolutely no idea what any of that means

Thickness efficiency.

Basically, modern tank armor can't resist more than about 1.3 times its thickness against APFSDS. Tops.

There is no substitute for thicker armor when it comes to protecting against enemy tanks I'm afraid. You really do need about a meter of armor to stop something like a 140mm APFSDS shell.

[Fordorsia]

I have absolutely no idea what any of that means

Thickness efficiency.

Basically, modern tank armor can't resist more than about 1.3 times its thickness against APFSDS. Tops.

There is no substitute for thicker armor when it comes to protecting against enemy tanks I'm afraid. You really do need about a meter of armor to stop something like a 140mm APFSDS shell.

So how would my hull armour be okay? Surely it can't be 400mm thick with the front suspension being able to support it.

Also the driver has to fit there. Should I just reduce it to something like 100-150?

[The Akasha Colony]

Would making military vehicles hybrids be a good idea? Normal trucks/transport vehicles would probably be good as hybrids, but would a hybrid tank have enough horsepower? How reliable would it be? Would maintenance be easier/harder-cheaper/more expensive than normal plain diesel engines? Would the better fuel economy be worth it?

The thing about hybrids is that you almost certainly won't be able to recharge the battery in the field. A conventional engine can be fuelled up completely in a few minutes as long as you can get a tanker there; a battery requires a special charging station and takes hours to charge (and that's a car battery, not a tank battery).

You're talking about an electric vehicle, not a hybrid. A hybrid takes gas like a normal automobile but uses the battery system as a sort of power buffer to smooth out loads on the engine, allowing it to stay within its most efficient power band and to recover energy normally lost during braking to be reapplied for new acceleration. The onboard engine charges the battery, so there's no need for external charging. As long as the engine can be run, a hybrid can charge its battery anywhere, but it doesn't even strictly need it in order to drive in most designs. It would just suffer from slower acceleration and sub-optimal fuel efficiency.

Would making military vehicles hybrids be a good idea? Normal trucks/transport vehicles would probably be good as hybrids, but would a hybrid tank have enough horsepower? How reliable would it be? Would maintenance be easier/harder-cheaper/more expensive than normal plain diesel engines? Would the better fuel economy be worth it?

Unless you really need the ability to export power (i.e. to use the vehicle as a generator), then by and large the cost and weight penalties make hybrids a somewhat dubious proposition for trucks.

Hybrid tanks can have enough horsepower, it's just a matter of developing the powertrain to provide it, the same as a normal tank. NS historically has had something of an infatuation with them.

I don't think that's an ideal layout.
A more useful layout would be using a combustion engine as the generator to power an electric motor, commonly referred to as diesel electric.

Issues with this layout include weight and bulk (you effectively have two large engines), but you can eliminate a fair chunk of the drivetrain so it may be compensated by this.

That depends on the efficiency of your electric motors and generators relative to your mechanical transmissions. The motors needed to put out the kind of torque a tank needs aren't light. The benefit to the system that Petrokovia mentioned (a power-split hybrid) is that it reduces the size of the motors needed, as the engine itself provides part of the motive power directly to the wheels via a conventional transmission.

Any other pros/cons? And exactly how big is "two large engines"? Would it fit in say, an Abrams?

It probably could today, but that's mostly because current tank engine bays are pretty large relative to modern tank engines. The Abrams and the Leopard 2 were designed for 40 year old engines, and today a powerpack could be made that takes only half that volume while providing the same (or greater) power.

Well my mantlet is nearly 1.5m so I guess that's good.

Are you sure about the hull? According to this the hull armour of the Abrams seems pretty thin. Nowhere near the 400mm on mine.

I wasn't sure if that included the slope factor.

Not including slopes, modern armour is only like 1.31.3 te max for ke and like 2 for ce.

I have absolutely no idea what any of that means

It's thickness efficiency, a measure of LOS thickness vs. RHAe thickness. Generally speaking, armor with 500 mm LOS thickness won't have a RHAe vs. KE of greater than 1.31 times that, so 655 mm RHAe. And for protection vs. CE, that's 2 times, so 500 mm LOS becomes 1,000 mm RHAe.

[Fordorsia]

Still a bit confused by it all. Should I just reduce the thickness and slope it more?

[The Greater Luthorian Empire]

Still a bit confused by it all. Should I just reduce the thickness and slope it more?

Probably a good idea. The Abrams for example has an extremely well sloped but extremely thin UFP and a very poorly sloped but extremely thick LFP.

[Fordorsia]

Thinned the front hull to 150mm and sloped it more. I also changed the back of the turret roof so it isn't as giant

Also gave it it's tracks. I like it

[Petrokovia]

What would be a good general-purpose suspension system (for tanks) that could hold up in both temperature extremes? Some info for what it would be dealing with:

-Petrokovia is very much like Russian terrain, so I'd be dealing with tons of mud and very cold, dry climates, domestically. Ecosystems include forest, tundra, marshes, mountains, and steppe.
-Many of Petrokovia's military rivals are further South, and get very hot and humid in the summer. There are a variety of ecosystems, including deserts and mountains.
-Obviously, urban is a must, but I'm pretty sure whatever suspension type it is, it'll do fine in that setting.
-While I would prefer maintenance to be cheaper and easier, Petro has a lot of money it can blow on it, so, performance>>>>>>>>cost.

Seeing as one of our allies has tropics, a suspension system that would be at least okay in the jungle would be a bonus, but is by no means necessary.

[The Akasha Colony]

What would be a good general-purpose suspension system (for tanks) that could hold up in both temperature extremes? Some info for what it would be dealing with:

-Petrokovia is very much like Russian terrain, so I'd be dealing with tons of mud and very cold, dry climates, domestically. Ecosystems include forest, tundra, marshes, mountains, and steppe.
-Many of Petrokovia's military rivals are further South, and get very hot and humid in the summer. There are a variety of ecosystems, including deserts and mountains.
-Obviously, urban is a must, but I'm pretty sure whatever suspension type it is, it'll do fine in that setting.
-While I would prefer maintenance to be cheaper and easier, Petro has a lot of money it can blow on it, so, performance>>>>>>>>cost.

Seeing as one of our allies has tropics, a suspension system that would be at least okay in the jungle would be a bonus, but is by no means necessary.

There's really only two major choices nowadays: hydropneumatic, and torsion bar. And if you aren't concerned so much about upfront cost, then hydropneumatic is the way to go.

[Petrokovia]

What would be a good general-purpose suspension system (for tanks) that could hold up in both temperature extremes? Some info for what it would be dealing with:

-Petrokovia is very much like Russian terrain, so I'd be dealing with tons of mud and very cold, dry climates, domestically. Ecosystems include forest, tundra, marshes, mountains, and steppe.
-Many of Petrokovia's military rivals are further South, and get very hot and humid in the summer. There are a variety of ecosystems, including deserts and mountains.
-Obviously, urban is a must, but I'm pretty sure whatever suspension type it is, it'll do fine in that setting.
-While I would prefer maintenance to be cheaper and easier, Petro has a lot of money it can blow on it, so, performance>>>>>>>>cost.

Seeing as one of our allies has tropics, a suspension system that would be at least okay in the jungle would be a bonus, but is by no means necessary.

There's really only two major choices nowadays: hydropneumatic, and torsion bar. And if you aren't concerned so much about upfront cost, then hydropneumatic is the way to go.

Thanks.

[Fordorsia]

How wide does an MBT commander's cupola tend to be?

[Laywenrania]

How wide does an MBT commander's cupola tend to be?

not much wider then an "average" human with clothes. 80cm-ish?

[Fordorsia]

How wide does an MBT commander's cupola tend to be?

not much wider then an "average" human with clothes. 80cm-ish?

Well it does have the periscopes that would make it wider than a normal hatch.

[Laywenrania]

not much wider then an "average" human with clothes. 80cm-ish?

Well it does have the periscopes that would make it wider than a normal hatch.

Mh, I was more calculating with the inside tbh^^ Just slap the width of your periscope to it.

[Fordorsia]

So does everything on it look okay?

[Purpelia]

So does everything on it look okay?

Why is the back of the turret shorter than the rest? I imagine you could do well with making it flat and using the extra space to store stuff such as rounds, equipment or just cans of coffee and cigarettes.

[Fordorsia]

So does everything on it look okay?

Why is the back of the turret shorter than the rest? I imagine you could do well with making it flat and using the extra space to store stuff such as rounds, equipment or just cans of coffee and cigarettes.

The space that's higher is for reloading the gun if it's depressed that far. It was completely flat before, but it seemed too large. It's already taller than a few MBTs, so I might as well make the profile a bit smaller without any real loss.

[Yukonastan]

Why is the back of the turret shorter than the rest? I imagine you could do well with making it flat and using the extra space to store stuff such as rounds, equipment or just cans of coffee and cigarettes.

The space that's higher is for reloading the gun if it's depressed that far. It was completely flat before, but it seemed too large. It's already taller than a few MBTs, so I might as well make the profile a bit smaller without any real loss.

How much gun depression is that anyway? 15-20º, eyeballing it?

[Fordorsia]

The space that's higher is for reloading the gun if it's depressed that far. It was completely flat before, but it seemed too large. It's already taller than a few MBTs, so I might as well make the profile a bit smaller without any real loss.

How much gun depression is that anyway? 15-20º, eyeballing it?

Elevation is 30º, depression is 8º.

[Yukonastan]

How much gun depression is that anyway? 15-20º, eyeballing it?

Elevation is 30º, depression is 8º.

Why not mount the gun lower down in the turret, then? That's the obvious solution, play with the mantlet and drop the gun down 6" or so, then have a constant height turret roof.

[Fordorsia]

Elevation is 30º, depression is 8º.

Why not mount the gun lower down in the turret, then? That's the obvious solution, play with the mantlet and drop the gun down 6" or so, then have a constant height turret roof.

Is it really a solution if there's no real problem with the back of the turret being lower?

Even if I wanted to lower the gun, the gun, mantlet and turret layers are all overlapping and I don't really feel like going through all the hassle.

[San-Silvacian]

There is nothing really wrong about it.

It feels kinda 50-60s if anything tbh.

[Fordorsia]

There is nothing really wrong about it.

It feels kinda 50-60s if anything tbh.

That's good, because I was going to tone the armour down, on the mantlet especially, for an earlier model which would be the first Fordorsian MBT.

This one would be after the 80s or something judging by the lolhuge mantlet.

[San-Silvacian]

There is nothing really wrong about it.

It feels kinda 50-60s if anything tbh.

That's good, because I was going to tone the armour down, on the mantlet especially, for an earlier model which would be the first Fordorsian MBT.

This one would be after the 80s or something judging by the lolhuge mantlet.

You could introduce this in the 1970s or so and it'd be pretty cool.