NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #6

[Lyras]

Either can be made to work, with proper tracking and guidance. If one bird can get there, so can another. Broadly (and simplistically) speaking.

You do realize the first will cost 10x or 50x as much, and the second, is a bit pointless.

It's actually not so. Tracking isn't that challenging in this day and age. The plotting of intercept courses isn't all that tough, though finnicky to arrange, and is expensive, though I highly doubt as much as I think you are implying. Again, I freely admit that I am over-simplifying. But it certainly can be done.

Also, getting usable satellites that are further out means lofting heavier satellites, further... which is itself more resource intensive. Bringing them down means putting a smaller and lighter thing into the same orbit, or an intercept course, which is less resource intensive than the launch. Simplistically speaking.

[Rich and Corporations]

Yes, but by putting your bird in an orbit that makes it harder to hit, is also more expensive to get there.

Elliptical orbits aren't difficult.
Sub-orbital flight isn't difficult either.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/stati ... yanny.html

Doubling delta V pretty much means... well let's use a calculator: http://www.strout.net/info/science/delta-v/intro.html

Squaring the size of the rocket?

[Oaledonia]

Put nuclear mines on the sea floor, and have a tiny sonar device higher to the surface. When the Longsword passes over it, it rises to the surface and detonates quickly.

[Lyras]

Put nuclear mines on the sea floor, and have a tiny sonar device higher to the surface. When the Longsword passes over it, it rises to the surface and detonates quickly.

Half-way competent escorts should prevent this from being an issue.

[Rich and Corporations]

Put nuclear mines on the sea floor, and have a tiny sonar device higher to the surface. When the Longsword passes over it, it rises to the surface and detonates quickly.

Half-way competent escorts should prevent this from being an issue.

Yes.

I use dolphins to escort my ships.

[Oaledonia]

Put nuclear mines on the sea floor, and have a tiny sonar device higher to the surface. When the Longsword passes over it, it rises to the surface and detonates quickly.

Half-way competent escorts should prevent this from being an issue.

Not if they trigger it.
It honestly sounds like a I WIN wank, and I refuse to RP with a longsword.
Then again, I'm FanT, so I don't worry about such things.

[Lyras]

Half-way competent escorts should prevent this from being an issue.

Not if they trigger it.
It honestly sounds like a I WIN wank, and I refuse to RP with a longsword.
Then again, I'm FanT, so I don't worry about such things.

It's far from an 'I win' weapon, though it can be a challenge to address. But it IS a technologically do-able use of contemporary technology. It was intended to be a force-multiplier, and boon to a large maritime force. Be pretty silly to have a ship of that size and expense and NOT have anything gained.

[Questers]

Put nuclear mines on the sea floor, and have a tiny sonar device higher to the surface. When the Longsword passes over it, it rises to the surface and detonates quickly.

Half-way competent escorts should prevent this from being an issue.

Not really. There is a giant acoustic black hole around a ship of that size which would make any kind of ASW operation inside it virtually impossible.

[Rich and Corporations]

Not really. There is a giant acoustic black hole around a ship of that size which would make any kind of ASW operation inside it virtually impossible.

yes, but his escorts fan out far farther than the 10 km black hole.

sounds only do travel about 10 km in the sea anyway

Not if they trigger it.
It honestly sounds like a I WIN wank, and I refuse to RP with a longsword.
Then again, I'm FanT, so I don't worry about such things.

It's far from an 'I win' weapon, though it can be a challenge to address. But it IS a technologically do-able use of contemporary technology. It was intended to be a force-multiplier, and boon to a large maritime force. Be pretty silly to have a ship of that size and expense and NOT have anything gained.

considering it's far cheaper to disable at minimum by tungsten rods at the belt, or by APHE against the deck, i'm not so sure.

defense is cheaper than offense as we all know


it does become a wonder how exactly actual modern tech nations intend to project power without longswords

[Lyras]

Not really. There is a giant acoustic black hole around a ship of that size which would make any kind of ASW operation inside it virtually impossible.

yes, but his escorts fan out far farther than the 10 km black hole.

sounds only do travel about 10 km in the sea anyway

It's far from an 'I win' weapon, though it can be a challenge to address. But it IS a technologically do-able use of contemporary technology. It was intended to be a force-multiplier, and boon to a large maritime force. Be pretty silly to have a ship of that size and expense and NOT have anything gained.

considering it's far cheaper to disable at minimum by tungsten rods at the belt, or by APHE against the deck, i'm not so sure.

defense is cheaper than offense as we all know


it does become a wonder how exactly actual modern tech nations intend to project power without longswords

Longswords help with long-range radar coverage and fleet-level fire-control and targetting, especially when long-to-extreme range guided weapons are available. They're not a be-all-and-end-all, but they are, I would assert, and advantage.

[Rich and Corporations]

At one trillion dollars, I could build five hundred ships that could achieve the same interlocking radar coverage.

To defend against Kamikazes, there would be radar pickets... who would be the first to be hit though.

[Lyras]

At one trillion dollars, I could build five hundred ships that could achieve the same interlocking radar coverage.

To defend against Kamikazes, there would be radar pickets... who would be the first to be hit though.

Except to get the same total radar coverage, you'd need to put the outer parts of that radar coverage within missile-range of areas not covered by your radar, enabling attrition of your coverage... which is not ideal.

[Rich and Corporations]

At one trillion dollars, I could build five hundred ships that could achieve the same interlocking radar coverage.

To defend against Kamikazes, there would be radar pickets... who would be the first to be hit though.

Except to get the same total radar coverage, you'd need to put the outer parts of that radar coverage within missile-range of areas not covered by your radar, enabling attrition of your coverage... which is not ideal.

Attrition.
In war.

Well.

I hope you have longswords between every point from your nation to your battlegroup, because I can always go after softer targets.

[Lyras]

Except to get the same total radar coverage, you'd need to put the outer parts of that radar coverage within missile-range of areas not covered by your radar, enabling attrition of your coverage... which is not ideal.

Attrition.
In war.

Well.

I hope you have longswords between every point from your nation to your battlegroup, because I can always go after softer targets.

Attrition in the sense of degradation of capability as much as loss of materiel and manpower.

NS-scale landing operations and force-sustainment at inter-regional ranges require an awful lot of combat power, and that means that large concentrations of force are needed to successfully make landfall. There can't be too many sub-groups capable of conducting and then sustaining offensive operations over NS-distances that require that many Longswords. Plus, my handful of interlocking Longswords (I field 12, in three 'armadas', with a fuckton of ships in an armada) and their support can deny avenues of approach through sea lanes for a hypothetical invasion force, and co-ordinate strikes from surface, land-based and aerial cruise missile assets upon hostile ships within the envelope.

[The Republic of Lanos]

No wonder why the ship was mentioned as unrealistic in the OP...

[Lyras]

No wonder why the ship was mentioned as unrealistic in the OP...

Erm... why? Because it's resource-intensive? Or because it's big? Or... what, exactly?

I follow that folks are uncomfortable with it. But the physics and technology is there. It's just a different way of addressing the geopolitical environs of NS.

[Rich and Corporations]

No wonder why the ship was mentioned as unrealistic in the OP...

This basically makes it cost efficient to launch a suborbital satellite into an elliptical orbit. Even though the satellite will burn up in reentry, the cost of a single satellite is far less than 12 longswords.

[Oaledonia]

> 1km long ship
> bloop

You don't need rouge waves to beat a Longsword, all you need is a bigger fleet of cheaper ships with weapons that can snap the keel. At that size, it shouldn't be that hard.

[Rich and Corporations]

> 1km long ship
> bloop

You don't need rouge waves to beat a Longsword, all you need is a bigger fleet of cheaper ships with weapons that can snap the keel. At that size, it shouldn't be that hard.

i think it should be a given that a longsword is probably flexible and designed well enough for that not to work

it is only 3x longer than a carrier

[Gallia-]

and 2x narrower

[Oaledonia]

it is only 3x longer than a carrier

and 2x narrower

Dear lord. This is now going to be the mainstay of Oaledonian torpedo research. Snap the fucking keel.

[The United Remnants of America]

So, contact lenses that have circuitry in them that allow the viewing of IR.

Possible?

YES, of course it is!

[Triplebaconation]

No wonder why the ship was mentioned as unrealistic in the OP...

Erm... why? Because it's resource-intensive? Or because it's big? Or... what, exactly?

I follow that folks are uncomfortable with it. But the physics and technology is there. It's just a different way of addressing the geopolitical environs of NS.

It's unrealistic because the technology doesn't work like you say it does, and certainly not well enough to justify the enormous expense.

[Rich and Corporations]

Erm... why? Because it's resource-intensive? Or because it's big? Or... what, exactly?

I follow that folks are uncomfortable with it. But the physics and technology is there. It's just a different way of addressing the geopolitical environs of NS.

It's unrealistic because the technology doesn't work like you say it does, and certainly not well enough to justify the enormous expense.

He has a nation of billions of people, being taxed at over 80%, at a GDP/capita greater than that of Mexico or India....

And the thing you find contentious is his ships of compensating size?

[Padnak]

It's unrealistic because the technology doesn't work like you say it does, and certainly not well enough to justify the enormous expense.

He has a nation of billions of people, being taxed at over 80%, at a GDP/capita greater than that of Mexico or India....

And the thing you find contentious is his ships of compensating size?

If I understand it correctly, Lyra is like north korea with a functioning economy