Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation [NO MECHS] Type 6

[The Akasha Colony]

I rather liked the stat-block and thought it was impressive in detail and construction. My main problem was having to keep the page closed; otherwise I would have simply made a :not: Jaguar II. Which would of course, resulted in a quite combat effective tank, but at the same time would be an immoral copying and intellectual theft, not to mention not being good for me attempting to make a semi-decent independent national arsenal. I'll reduce it in length then too; there seems to be a consensus that a gun that long isn't useful, and has problems along the way. L/52 seems like a decent caliber instead, since I'm trying to make my nation French-like and that is what the Leclerc uses.

I borrowed the template from NSWiki and made a few changes (such as background color, and a few of the data fields), although I suspect the original was designed to resemble the data format on AFVDB. TBH, most of the stats I originally had ended up changing, some rather significantly, once I actually started drawing the tank, which also went through a number of serious revisions since it was basically the first ground vehicle I've linearted. I ended up increasing the road wheel diameter since I had additional space, and the hull and gun-forward length ended up shorter than originally spec'd, which was of course fine since it meant a slightly more compact tank.

Anyway, the easiest way to get feedback is to present the statblock first, since it's what people gravitate to naturally to get an at-a-glance rundown and look for any glaring flaws. If anything looks odd or unusual, then they'll take a gander at the longer description to see if there's a justification.

[Registug]

Manchukuo, I like you a lot. You're the first new guy to come in and have some thoughtfulness and humility instead of just assuming you already know everything there is to know.

Anyway, the others have already pointed out the flaws in the design. Stylistically, I'd put the statblock at the top. Also, is there an explanation for your year system somewhere?

[Consortium of Manchukuo]

Manchukuo, I like you a lot. You're the first new guy to come in and have some thoughtfulness and humility instead of just assuming you already know everything there is to know.

Anyway, the others have already pointed out the flaws in the design. Stylistically, I'd put the statblock at the top. Also, is there an explanation for your year system somewhere?

Basically my calendar system is based on the idea that there was a flourishing civilization on my planet a while back, few thousand years ago, that go wiped out by a large nuclear exchange. Currently the year would be 3792, with dates before being before fall/after fall, which is dated 0. Generally I just think of anything with Manchukuo as being two decades before their RL happenings on the calendar system. 3730 is the 1950s, 3750s the 3970s, and do that to maintain easy track of stuff. I have a slightly more detailed amount of information in my Factbook concerning History, but that is still a work in progress since I'll be redoing the world's geography eventual into a non-earth planet, and will remodel some of the later stuff then.

And thanks for the compliment. I like to try to be aware that a lot of other people have just as much, if not far more information and knowledge on subjects than me. When I grew up I liked to read a lot, and to do things on my own, and so I didn't interact with a lot of people and when I did I generally knew more about my specialized areas of interest. It took me a while to realize how limited the amount of information I have available is and how much I can learn from other people instead of just dismissing them, and I've tried to keep that close to mind since and act accordingly.

I rather liked the stat-block and thought it was impressive in detail and construction. My main problem was having to keep the page closed; otherwise I would have simply made a :not: Jaguar II. Which would of course, resulted in a quite combat effective tank, but at the same time would be an immoral copying and intellectual theft, not to mention not being good for me attempting to make a semi-decent independent national arsenal. I'll reduce it in length then too; there seems to be a consensus that a gun that long isn't useful, and has problems along the way. L/52 seems like a decent caliber instead, since I'm trying to make my nation French-like and that is what the Leclerc uses.

I borrowed the template from NSWiki and made a few changes (such as background color, and a few of the data fields), although I suspect the original was designed to resemble the data format on AFVDB. TBH, most of the stats I originally had ended up changing, some rather significantly, once I actually started drawing the tank, which also went through a number of serious revisions since it was basically the first ground vehicle I've linearted. I ended up increasing the road wheel diameter since I had additional space, and the hull and gun-forward length ended up shorter than originally spec'd, which was of course fine since it meant a slightly more compact tank.

Anyway, the easiest way to get feedback is to present the statblock first, since it's what people gravitate to naturally to get an at-a-glance rundown and look for any glaring flaws. If anything looks odd or unusual, then they'll take a gander at the longer description to see if there's a justification.

I took your suggestion and Registug's into account and shifted the block of stats to the front, along with making appropriate changes concerning systems of armament.

Model 78 MBT

Specifications:

Length: 7.04 meters without gun, 11.46 meters with
Width: 3.58 meters
Height: 2.35 meters(Adjustable)
Weight: 61 metric tons

Crew: 3; Commander, Gunner, Driver

Protection of Armor: Modular composite armor with reactive armor
Frontal Upper Glacis: 120mm APFSDS, 160mm HEAT
Lower Frontal Glacis: 75mm APFSDS, 105mm HEAT
Frontal Turret Armor: 160mm APFSDS, 200mm HEAT
Top Turret Armor (Model 78-Mod 1-Mle. 87-AU 75mm APFSDS, 105mm HEAT
Remaining Armor: 40mm APFSDS, 75mm HEAT

Main Armament: 127mm/52 stabilized autoloading smoothbore gun w/ 44 rounds
Secondary Armament:
x1 7.5mm coaxial machine gun w/ 2,000 rounds of ammunition
x1 RWS with capabilities for 20mm cannon, 40mm grenade launcher, or x4 missiles MANPAD anti-air

Propulsion: Model 74-1,600/12-DBTE-2 diesel engine, or Model 85-1,800/12-DBTE-1
Speed: 82 kilometers forward or backwards maximum, on road, 55 kilometers off road
Suspension: Active hydropneumatic suspension
Power to Weight: 26.5-29.5 hp/t
Range of Operations: 500 kilometers internal fuel, 620 kilometers w/ external fuel

Overview

The Model 78 Main Battle Tank, otherwise known as the FMBT-70/60, is the third generation main battle tank of the Consortium of Manchukuo. Designed during the 3760s and 3770s to replace the earlier Type 26 MBT which had entered service in the 3730s, the Model 74 was intended to provide a vehicle that significantly improved firepower, protection, modular upgrade capacity, electronics, fire control, and mobility, while not significantly increasing size. It emerged due to the perceived obsolete nature of previous MBTs, the difficulty in effective importation of allied armor, and a security environment that required a highly capable mechanized force. Since its introduction into general service in the 3770s, it has been adopted as the main tank as used by the Consortium of Manchukuo, and the only tank in active combat formations, with a variety of variants amplifying general combat capabilities.

Background and Development
Before the Model 78 was introduced into service, the main battle tank used by the Consortium was the Type 26. This was originally designed in the 3730s, as part of a program to develop a future armored strategy and doctrine. During initial designing it was planned to have it serve as a medium tank alongside a heavy and light tank force, but this was ultimately rejected as both financially unachievable, and militarily unsound. Using such units would be extremely expensive, while for the Consortium of Manchukuo, which mostly intended to fight on the defensive initially in any potential war, heavy tanks had dubious value. Although the light tank part of the scheme did eventually emerge, and went on to become one of the few success stories of Manchukuo's arms industry on the international market, it was realized that it would have limited combat effectiveness on its own to stand up against invading enemy armored formations supported by infantry, artillery, and air support. Thus, the Type 26 was proceeded with, and eventually resulted in the first MBT of the Consortium of Manchukuo.

While the Type 26 was not initially designed as an MBT, it suited the role reasonably well. It had a 100mm rifled anti-tank gun of 62 calibers, high mobility, and a very well armored turret for the time that approached 400mm in certain places. This was however, achieved at the expense of almost all hull armor, with hull armor being only sufficiently capable to defend against autocannon fire. While this did preclude its effective usage in the roles of assault, this was not viewed as a principal objective for Consortium armored forces, while by this time period the wide spread emergence and adoption of HEAT ammunition meant that attempting to provide reasonable protection against enemy anti-tank weapons in all but the most specialized areas (Like the turret front) would be extremely difficult for a vehicle of conventional size and weight. Instead, high mobility was viewed as the cornerstone of effective defense, and the Type 26 was well equipped in this regard. As a result, despite the convoluted design history, the vehicle did ultimately emerge as a quite effective MBT suiting Manchukuo's need for a flexible tank that could work effectively in a wide array of terrain, principally on the defense. Over the next several decades it would see various upgrades and modernizations, which aimed to enable it to maintain reasonable combat capability.

However, by the 3760s, the Type 26, now over three decades old, was clearly showing its age. Its armament was no longer highly effective against enemy armor, its own protection was extremely limited, its once capable mobility was increasingly being surpassed by foreign designs with higher power to weight ratios and more sophisticated suspensions, and upgrading the fire control, electronics, and communication systems onboard in of themselves would be a major project. Thus, it was realized that new vehicles were needed to replace the previous generation MBTs, fixing the problems and maintaining the designed strengths incorporate. This left two choices; designing a home grown MBT, and importing a foreign design. Initially, the latter option was pursued, with attempts to license production of the MBT designs of the Gaullic Democratic Socialist Federation and Tang Republican Union. However, both of these fell through; the GDSF's tanks, although undoubtably far superior than the Type 26, were in of themselves in the process of being replaced with a more advanced successor which was not due for several years (Eventually this would enter service in 3768 as the Model 68). As a result of this, and various concerns over the costs which would be required for appropriate changes to the design to reach Manchukuo preferences, it was ultimately decided that it was unfeasible to adopt Gaullic armored vehicles. Although the TRU's newest vehicles had just entered service and were being aggressively marketed, they were substantially heavier than anything viewed as economical by the Consortium of Manchukuo, on the order of just slightly under 80 tons. Despite their impressive armament and even more impressive protection, it was ultimately decided that the sheer cost, and limitations imposed by the size of the vehicles, meant that they too wouldn't be used. Thus, the only remaining option was to build tanks domestically. This both solved the miltary's problems of designing a new MBT, but was also politically popular as an easily visible symbol of the Consortium of Manchukuo's committment to providing continual improvements to its defensive abilities. As a result on this, in 3762, design work began on a new MBT, named the FMBT-70/60 at the time, or future main battle tank-70 (Year of decade)/60 (Proposed general weight).

During its initial proposal, specifications were laid down for the tank. Armament had to have a smoothbore autoloading main gun of at least 127mm with at least 40 rounds stored for its use, a coaxial machine gun, a hatch mounted autocannon or heavy machine gun, and fire control capable of engaging in all weather at 6 kilometers, combined with improved sensory suites for utilization at such range. Frontal glacis armor needed to be capable of defeating enemy anti-tank rounds of 120mm and above when utilizing ERA, and turret armor had to be substantially thicker and more capable than frontal glacis armor. It had to be easily upgradable and modular in its external armor layout, allowing the fitting of new and improved ERA and other armor systems when necessary. In addition, increased defense against mines, a key failing of the Type 26, was expected. A power to weight ratio in excess of 25 horsepower per ton was mandated, provided by a diesel engine system, along with new, hydropneumatic suspension which later incorporated in-arm suspension for active ride control, and a range in excess of 500 kilometers. A crew of 3 was specified, with continued and enhanced emphasis on crew survivability, and crew comfort, as compared to previous vehicles. This was all supposed to be achieved on a weight under 60 tons, with cost expectations initilly being under 4 million NSD, but eventually growing to upwards of 10 million and beyond. While the expectations for the new vehicle were substantially in advance of previous designs, the design project start, early in the 3760s, meant there was an expectation of plenty of time for the development of the tank. It would indeed take well in excess of a decade for it to be succesfully completed. Continuing changes in specifications, and advances in technology meant that the project was riddled with delays, although it was, luckily, saved from cancellation on numerous occasions (Arguably this period represents one of the lowest states of the Consortium's defense procurement process, as enough money was finally being provided for research across a wide variety of spectrums and the past several decades had seen the development of extensive linkages between the military and arms industries).

During the time in which it was being designed for eventual entrance into service, the main tank which was used by the Consortium of Manchukuo's Army was the Type 26, which by that stage had been upgraded to the Type 26 Mod 2-127 variant, and the Type 26 Mod 2-160. These programs had been mostly stop-gap measures to deal with the need to produce tanks quickly in the interim, and upgraded various systems over original versions of the Type 26s. When the Model 78 was eventually entered into service, the question of how to deal with the admittably large numbers of Type 26s that had been built over the prceeding decades required careful examination. Simply getting rid of new build vehicles, many of which were armed with highly capable weapon systems, seemed to be a tremendous waste. Instead, Type 26s were steadily pushed back to reserve formations, with older units equipped with 100mm anti-tank guns being decommissioned from service, although stored in reserve just in case. As it currently stands, all front line formations have transitioned over to the Model 78, while the majority of second echelon units have similarily made the leap. However, third line units are currently still primarily equipped with Type 26s. The process of changing the entire army over to the new Model 78 has been sidetracked by the continuing expansion in standing army units, which required new Model 78s, and processes of transition to the newer variants of the Model 78 which appeared just a few years after introduction.

General Characterics

Despite continual cost escalations and fluctuating capabilities, the Model 78 did ultimately fulfill the size that it had been intended for, that of a tank in the vicinity of 60tons (Which turned out to be 61 tons to be precise). Keeping lower weight as compared to the potential for a significantly larger vehicle meant that it could be significantly cheaper to build the chassis and other mechanical components, more reliable, and easier to maintain and transport. It has a length, not including the main gun, of 7.04 meters, while including its 127mm/52 cannon, this rises to 10.46 meters. Having such a long length with the 127mm gun caused concerns for its ability to be transported efficiently, due to the length of the main gun. Ultimately it simply had to be accepted, with whatever problems emerged for transport as well. The turret also saw the continued evolution away from older, hemispherical and dome turrets. This was driven by modern composite armor which proved easier to manufacture in flat plates, emphasis on increased protected volume under armor, and the production bottlenecks resulting from limited number of manufactories that could cast in a single piece the massive turrets utilized. This turret is mounted towards the front, despite a serious consideration of a rear mounted turret (Which would offer greater survivability for the crew and potentially better elevation, but would also diminish depression and complicate many aspects of the design like sights). Like on the majority of Manchukuoan fighting vehicles, there was also extreme importance attached to attempting to minimize the height of the vehicle. Reducing height also diminishes casualties in combat, as it makes the tank harder to hit, harder to detect, enables it to ne easier to be disguised and use terrain to its advantage in movement, and reduces the area that must be protected. At the same time, it was understood that there had to be compromises between reducing the height of the vehicle, and its internal space and crew size. Reducing the size of the vehicle impacts the crew, reducing their combat effectiveness. Model 78s were supposed to reach an appropriate compromise in this regard. This resulted in a height of 2.35 meters. It has an overall width of 3.58 meters. There are seven road wheels per side, with a front mounted track idler and rear mounted drive sprocket.

Main Armament

Series 127

In many ways, the main armament of the Model 78 is a logical development of the 100mm cannon used on the Type 26. The goal of such a piece is to provide a high velocity weapon capable of firing rounds of a wide variety of types, including APFSDS, HEAT, and ATGMs. However, the 100mm used on the Type 26 was clearly showing its age during its final decades in service, and thus it was decided that it was necessary to modernize to a much larger and more capable 127mm anti-tank weapon. The direct spiritual descendants of these were on the Type 25 Heavy Tank, which used a 127mm rifled anti-tank gun which was a derivative of naval pieces during the era. However, when 127mm guns were adopted as standard on modern MBTs of the Consortium, they would instead be smoothbore artillery, instead of older rifled guns. Type 26s were equipped with the 127mm/45-Mle. 58M1, which was an L/45 127mm smoothbore, manually loaded tank gun. During the design process for the Model 78, it was decided that a further upgrade to this designed to take into account the substantially improved capabilities of the new vehicle was in order. This would become the 127mm/42-Mle.71M2, a L52 127mm smoothbore. It saw both expansions in length, with the subsequent improvements to muzzle velocity, but also to its technical characteristics. Autofrettaging was used, as is a common practice on many modern guns, but it also saw the addition of new, synethic components to replace older traditional metal, lightening weight and increasing strength, while better thermal liners improved heat resistance during operation. As a result of this, the gun saw an increase in both its overall capabilities, but also in barrel life, with up to 1,200 rounds being capable of being fired before reprocessing is needed.

Like the majority of modern Manchukuoan MBTs, the Model 78 utilizes an autoloader instead of a manual loader. Deleting an extra crew member allows for more tanks to be fielded for the same amount of manpower, while also reducing the overall size of the tank. In the case of the Model 78, a bustle mounted autoloader was used, which has 24 rounds of ammunition ready for use. There are an additional 20 rounds stored in the hull, which can be transferred to the autoloader, typically by the crew when they are not in combat situations. This can be done both outside, and inside armor - the rounds can be inserted through a hatch in the rear of the turret, or brought up through the vehicle to the turret. However, generally the latter can be quite clumsy, so it is only done if it is necessary to reload under armor.They can also be loaded into the gun manually, which would be standard in the case of the exhaustion of ammunition, or if the autoloader was to somehow malfunction. One important feature that was added on during the final stages was for the entire bustle to be removed, and replaced with a new one, similar to a rifle clip or magazine. This means that a tank can be re-armed and sent into battle very quickly after its ammunition is depleted, or the bustle can be removed for quick examination of the autoloader itself in case of a problem. This isn't as commonly used as would otherwise be deemed logical though; in the majority of circumstances, it takes a period of time to refuel, examine, and prepare the tank during which any reloading can take place. At the same time, vehicles needed for re-equipping the entire clip system would be relatively specialized and expensive. Thus, only a few units, typically specialized armored ones, have this as a dedicated attachment. The autoloader can maintain a rate of fire of 12 rounds per minute, and was extensively tested to ensure reliability. On the turret of the Model 127 series, it can depress to -10 degrees, and elevate up to 15 degrees.

Series 127

APFSDS:

APFSDS-127-Mle.62 - Round pioneered as the first 127mm modern APFSDS round in the Consortium of Manchukuo
APFSDS-127-Mle.75 - Upgrade of the 127-Mle.62
APFSDS-127-Mle.75/M2 - Further upgrade of the 127-Mle.75

Of these, APFSDS-127-Mle.75/M2 is the only round of the APFSDS category which is still carried in substantial numbers anymore. This is a modern depletedu radium round used to penetrate enemy armor, incorporating the advances and changes made from initial 127mm APFSDS rounds. Previous rounds had been eqipped with tungsten penetrators, bute hte introduction of uranium improved its ability to combat advanced modern armor.

HEAT:

HEAT-127-Mle.60 - HEAT round adopted by the Consortium of Manchukuo
HEAT-AMMTC-127-Mle.79 - Multipurpose HEAT round with airbursting capability

HEAT-AMMTC-127-Mle.79 has effectively supplanted HEAT-127-Mle.60 in all common roles in current usage. It is a HEAT round designed to be used against a wide range of targets, including personnel, helicopters, armore vehicles (Where, asides from MBTs, it is effective against the majority of untis in service), and fortifications. The main differences form previous rounds include superior fragmentation, producing shell splinters at a substantially greater rate, and a smart fuze for airbursting capability. This means it can be programmed with a wide range of attacks, which asides form airburst also include proximity, post-penetration, and impact. As a result of this it can supplant a variety of precious rounds in service, such as canister or high explosive, granting substantially more flexible and effective ammunition load outs.

ATGM:

ATGM-DLOS-127-Mle.75/M2 - Direct line of sight anti-tank missile
ATGM-BLOS-127-Mle.80 - Anti-tank and general missile with non-light of sight capabilities

Unlike other ammunition categores, both of these ATGMs are in general service. ATGM-DLOS-127-Mle.75/M2 is used to provide an anti-tank guided missile for engagement against line of sight targets, typically enemy MBTs. It is equipped with a shaped charge penetrator which is adopted from HEAT-AMMTC-127-Mle.79 and is guided to long range by a millimeter band radar seeker. The intent of this is to provide enhanced range of engagement as compared to standard anti-tank rounds wth the capability to engage enemy tanks in the direct, or top attack role. However, ATGM-BLOS-127-Mle.80 might be viewed as the pre-eminient top attack round, being designed to operate at ranges behind the effective line of direct sight of the missile. It is launched from the main gun, upon which point it attains increased altitude, travels to the target destination area, and activates its millimeter band radar seeker, before attacking the target with an explosively formed penetrator. This enables it to hit the thinner top armor of enemy tanks, at long range. However, it is substantially more expensive than ATGM-DLOS-127-Mle.75/M2,

Series 180

One of the variants of the Model 78 is the Model 78-180, which makes widespread changes (Discussed in more detail in its own variant section). The main feature of the change is the replacement of the 127mm/64 high velocity smoothbore gun with a much lower velocity, 180mm/28 smoothbore cannon. Like the 127mm it is an autoloader cannon designed for usage against a wide variety of targets, is smoothbore, and is fully stablized for on the move firing, but it differs significantly in its capabilities and operation.

Unlike on the base versions of the Model 78, the turret on the Model 78-180 is unmanned. This means that of course manual loading systems were ruled out, although manually loading a 180mm gun would be of dubious value to begin with. Switching over to an unmanned turret was meant both to expand the space available for ready rounds to be carried, and to potentially reduce the height of the turret itself, although as it turned out the former's emphasis mostly decreased the possibilities of the latter. Never the less, the workings of the autoloader system remain similar, with it being a bustle mounted autoloader, equipped with 18 rounds ready for use. It took significant expansions of the ammunition component of the autoloader to fit in so many rounds, and even with this the number of rounds stands at just 3/4s of those carried on 127mm armed units. The numbers in the hull also fell, reaching a mere 14. As a result of this, there are only 32 rounds, as compared to 40 onboard the 127 series. This was a major reason for opposition to its adoption, but it was felt that the increased capacity of each round justified it. While the ability to have the vehicle be reloaded manually by the crew remains (With access capability to the now unmanned turret as before), with ammunition being ferried from inside the hull to the autoloader by a crank system, the size of the rounds makes this expontentially harder. Reloading externally also takes substantially larger, again due to the size fo the rounds, although this is substantially faster than internal reloading. This meant that the "bustle clip" concept found on the 127 initially actually become a very important part of the 180's capabilities, since it can use it reduce the time needed for reloading to an adequate period. When loaded, the autoloading mechanism can maintain a rate of fire of 10 rounds per minute.

Many of the components used on the 127mm/64 guns were reused, although increased in size, onboard the Model 78. It saw continued usage of synthetic carbon components intended to increase strength, along with a thermal barrel liner which significantly improved its capability for sustained fire. Combined with the reduced muzzle velocity of the 180mm, this as a result saw a much higher barrel life as compared to standard tank guns, reaching some 2,400 rounds, double the expectancy of the 127mm/64. It also has superior depression and elevation angles as compared to the 127mm guns, with a depression of -12 degrees and elevation of 16 degrees possible.

HEAT:

HEAT-180-AMMTC-180-Mle. 82 - Multipurpose HEAT round with airbursting capability

Due to its newer introduction, and the fact that the 180mm doesn't share compatbility with any previous large caliber, lower velocity rounds, the HEAT rounce choices available to the Model 78-180 are limited to just one round, that of the HEAT-180-AMMTC-180-Mle.82. This is a multi-purpose HEAT round, used to engage enemy armored targets, infantry, helicopters, or fortifications. Its usage in the anti-armor role saw enhanced emphasis over that of the 127mm gun rounds; unlike on the 127mms, the size of the 180mm meant that an effective HEAT round for usage against modern armor with a tandem charge would be practical. Still, the versatility against such a wide range of targets is an important part in enabling the vehicle to make effective usage of its gun, even with its smaller load out of ammunition.

ATGM:

ATGM-DLOS-180-Mle.83/M1 - Line of sight anti-tank missile
ATGM-DLOS-180-Mle.89/M2 - Improved version of the Mle.83M1
ATGM-BLOS-180-Mle.84 - Non-line of sight anti-tank round

ATGMs were an important part of the reason for the adoption of a larger cannon, as it can fire significantly larger and more capable rounds against enemy tanks. The anti-tank missiles used however, continue to be similar to those found on lighter guns. ATGM-DLOS-180-Mle.89M2 is the main anti-tank missile found onboard, and is similar to the ATGM-DLOS-127-Mle.85/M2, being guided by a millimeter band radar receiver and designed to impact enemy armor either frontally or in the top attack role. (Although given that the 180 series was specifically designed to use top attack roles against enemy heavy MBTs, it is probable that the latter will be more often used. It can also be used to engage targets like helicopters if necessary. The second round carried, the ATGM-BLOS-180-Mle.84, is capable of longer ranged attacks in non-line of sight configurations. In standard operations it ascends to a certain height, travels to the target area, activates its millimeter band radar system, and then attacks targets that match the profile it has been assigned.

HE-FRAG:

HE-FRAG-180-Mle.81 - High explosive fragmentation round

Unlike on other tanks in Manchukuoan inventory, the 180mm is equipped with dedicated high explosive-fragmentation rounds. This could seem to be somewhat counter-intuitive - tanks with increased amounts of ammunition available do after all, choose to standardize on a standard HEAT round, as compared to the 180 with its own specialized HE round. However, during the design process, the appeal of using a dedicated HE-FRAG round which would be significantly larger than standard Manchukuoan 160mm artillery simply was too much for the designers. A 180mm round would have excellent potential at being used in the role of infantry support, to an even greater degree than the HEAT-180-AMMTC-180-Mle.82. Thus, the 180mm round was pressed ahead with. In service it is rather simple, being mostly an upscaling of 160mm rounds, and is mostly intended for being used in the direct fire role. Usage in indirect fire is not uknown, but the elevation angles of the tank are somewhat lacking and are not entirely rectified with its in-arm suspension unit. However, unlike HEAT rounds, the HE-FRAG-180-Mle. 81 is typically only deployed in environments when the threat of enemy armored vehicles is not extremely pronounced. In the majority of situations HEAT does the job of the HE-FRAGs well enough, while being more multi-purpose in the case of the arrival of enemy MBTs.

Secondary Armament

Unlike the main gun which differs between units, the secondary armament is mostly the same on whichever tank it is used. It includes both a coaxial, and turret mounted armament. The coaxial is a 7.5mm machine gun, which was adopted after debates between it and a 13.2mm machine gun. Ultimately 7.5mm was chosen as it was decided that it was entirely adequate for the role of engaging enemy infantry, and it could carry more rounds for longer periods of operation(Which in the case of the internal 7.5mm is 2,000 rounds of ammunition). The turret mounted armament however, is capable of being altered widely. It is a low profile RWS, which can accept a variety of modular weapons. This includes 20mm autocannons(500 rounds of ammunition), 40mm grenade launchers(300 rounds of ammunition), or a number of short range anti-air missiles (Typically four) of the MP-SRAAM-Mle 66 series. It can rotate fully 360 degrees, and, in the case of the 20mm, elevate to engage aerial targets. In addition, the sides of the turret can be fitted with mounts for missiles for anti-tank usage, typical 4 ATGM-70-Mle. 72/M3s, which are heavy anti-tank missiles in the 70 kilogram range, which was designed as a hypersonic anti-tank missile. The intent of this is to provide a very fast, hit to kill missile system capable of penetrating even the heaviest armor, but the heavy weight, and high cost generally means they aren't mounted. In the majority of circumstances, they are simply not needed.

Fire Control, Sensors, and Communication

Although the electronics on later variants of the Type 26 were quite capable, progressing far from the initial analog systems used, it was still viewed as necessary to dramatically enhance their performance on the Model 78. With the growing sophistication of fire control, communication systems, and target aquisition systems in general usage on modern MBTs, allowing a significant gap to form between their capabilities and that of the armored forces of the Consortium of Manchukuo was clearly undesirable. Thus, the design emphasis of the Model 78 placed high importance on having capable electronic and sensor systems, which could be easily upgraded to meet future standards over time.

Like the majority of modern MBTs, the Model 78 has an advanced digitalized fire control computer. This was taken from Mle. 70 FCC-T used on the Type 26, but upgraded significantly concerning its electronic components. It incorporates information from the various fire control sensors and information systems onboard, which include a laser rangefinder millimeter band radar system, crosswing sensor, cant sensors, temperature measurement, air pressure monitors, muzzle referense system, round type information and tracking rate units. It also takes in information from sensors like microphones, FLIRs and other infrared devices, electro optical, and vibration sensors, and automatically distributes this to the crew, and the fire control computer. Based on this, and targets assigned by the commander, it then automatically generates firing solutions. It then automatically provides lead, elevation angle, and other relevant information to the gunner, as well as automatically turning the turret and properly elevating with the gun. As a result, the gunner simply needs to pull the trigger. The commander in general searches for targets with his independent thermal view system, then hands them off to the gunner for aquisition. This fire control system can however, be operated by the commander as well.

However, there is significantly more to the overall system than this alone. One of they key features included in the vehicle was a sensory mast, which is equipped with infrared, visual, acoustic and millimeter band radar systems. This mast is mounted in the turret, and can extent up to 9.8 meters in height above it. Deploying it means that the Model 78 has significantly improved ability to overlook terrain, and observe at longer distance, all at decreased risk to itself. When not in use it is typically stowed slot, which it folds into. Furthermore, later variants also include UAR-Mod/SRR UAV, a short ranged unmanned aerial vehicle intended for operations at 10-40 kilometers. It is launched from a catapult system, and is recovered by parachuting near the vehicle and being retrieved by the crew. An IFF system is also included directly above the main gun.

For actual visibility of the crew, there are a variety of periscopes, and external cameras. The driver is equipped with 3 periscopes and electro-optical sensors to his front, along with an infrared view system. He furthermore has camera systems that monitor the rear of the vehicle, and operate in both infrared and visual spectrums, for work during the day and at night. This provides him good all around views, providing better capability for him to do his job. Meanwhile the gunner has both an independent camera for visual and infrared detection, and information displays from the fire control system. The commander has all relevent information being gathered by the onboard sensors, an independent thermal and visual sight system, 7 periscopes for all around information, a cupola, and also the thermal sight on the RWS. This RWS can also be handed off to computer control for engagement of low flying targets like helicopters with the 20mm autocannon, and it is equipped with adequate fire control for this enteprise. All of the sensor systems are fully stabilized. Information so provided to the crew is accessed through their helment systems which provide a full 360 degree view of the surrounding environment based on the information available.

Like other Manchukuoan units, the Model 78 operates off the standard tactical datanet system, the DL/81-EA, which is used for communicating via the CBMS-ATCS-77/M2, which is a battle management system part of the common CBMS designed for integration with armored units. It is designed to enable complete integration of the tank units, with rapid and efficient transit of information from friendly units, providing a constantly updating view of the battlefield. This is displayed to the commander, giving him information ranging from the location of friendly forces, to their strength, their ammunition level, intentions, and all other necessary information. At the same time, this is designed to operate through highly secured systems, with dedicated electronic warfare companies attached to each signals troop unit at the divisional level. For less exotic means of communication, it also has loudspeakers, and a field telephone (Useful for infantry attempting to communicate with the vehicle's crew).

Protection

Model 78s were designed under the operating assumption that advances in protection would continue to proceed at a rapid rate after their introduction, so the scheme of protection was intended to maximize their capability to be updated. The armor system was intended to counter a wide array of threats, ranging from shaped charge rounds to APFSDS. It is almost uniformly intended for protection over the frontal aspect, with little armor protection being provided to the side and rear in standard operations, although it is possible to provide additional armor to these aspects through the addition of reactive armor.

As basically designed, the tank uses a composite armor protection system. It incorporates a complex array of armor materials, including steel, ceramics, titanium plastic composites, and kevlar. One of the main goals of this was to use highly modular armor protection, capable of being removed and replaced over time. As new and more effective composite armor protection is developed, older armor schemes can be replaced and new composite armor attached, which intended to make it much cheaper and more efficient to upgrade. In general service it depends on reactive armor to supplement this, which, like the composite armor, is intended to be easily removed and replaced. Initially Model 72-ERA/M1 was used, but over time this is being replaced with Model 84-ERA/M2, which incorporates much improved protective values. It can also be rapidly attached to the sides and rear of the vehicle, alongside additional cage and slat armor, although this adds the better part of four extra metric tons to the weight. As a result, in general combat operations and service, the ERA is only attached to the glacis and frontal turret armor. It also has built in spall liners incorporating kevlar, which increase defense against shocks as transmitted through the armor (HESH being a system which it was principally designed to defeat, although of course others are included under this). Recently some research happened for upgrades to new materials like spider silk, which incorporates superior strength, but this still hasn't reached the general fleet of armored units. As a result of all of this armor, the vehicle has protective values which are intended to provide up to 120mm APFSDS/150mm HEAT along the upper frontal glacis, 76mm APFSDS/ 105mm HEAT along the lower frontal glacis, 160mm APFSDS/200mm HEAT on the frontal turret, 76mm APFDS/105mm HEAT along the rest of the turret, and standardized defense against 40mm APFSDS/75mm HEAT along the rest of the hull. This can of course, be increased with HEAT, but this is not in general service equipped, as mentioned earlier. There were significanti ncreases in the lower hull armor against anti-tank mines, which was regarded as a particular failing of the Type 26.

Beyond its armor protection, there were also various other attempts to increase its survivability. Like any modern MBT it has CBRN protection, being equipped with filters, and an overpressure system. It is designed to be able to operate for extended periods of time if necessary using its filters in an environment with CBRN elements present, while the filters can be quickly and readily replaced when used. Various radiation warning systems are mounted onboard to give the crew knowledge concerning their environment's radiation levels. Similar chemical agent detection systems are used. In addition, all onboard electronics are designed to be hardened against EMP and nuclear effects, although in the event of any close by nuclear event the tank would probably lose significant amounts of combat capability - it has been observed that although tank hulls (And crews, but their long term survival is ultimately highly doubtful in the event of a close by nuclear strike) but their external optics and sensors do not often make it out intact. As a result of this, it is probable that even if the tank survives, it will not be capable of effectively participating in combat. There was brief consideration for equipping protection against neutron radiation, with internal layers of materials such as Polyethylene, but this was rejected due to the belief that this event would happen too rarely to justify the expense. Never the less, there is stil the capability for its addition.

Internal damage control and repair is present. It has an automatic fire suppression system, which is activated once internal temperatures rise above 82 degrees celsius in the fighting compartment, or manually by the driver. This is linked to 2 Halon fire extinguishers, which suppress the fire. There is also a smaller, auxilarily fire extinguisher stored for use if necessary. Besies this, the ammunition when stored in its bustle or compartment in the hull is designed to blow out if hit, away from the crew and vital systems. This lessens the risk of catastrophic damage to the tank, or the death of the people manning it. An example of this is the ammunition in the turret, which is separated from the crew members in the turret by a blast door, that only opens when the autoloader reloads. Fuel is treated in a similar fashion, being designed to cauze minimal damage if hit.

In standard practice, Model 78s are provided with camouflage depending on the regions they are deployed to. This can vary widely, from desert tan, to forest green. Their camouflage patterns currently emphasize a multi-color spectrum instead of a single color, intended to break up the color spectrum and decrease their overall visibility. Besides this, the Model 78 is also equipped with a modular self-screening system, consisting of the Model 73 Modular SPS, which on the tank incorporates 18 81mm grenade launchers into the turret, that can fire a variety of charges include high explosive, smoke, and aeresol to provide protection to the vehicle. Furthermore, it can lay a smoke screen by injecting chemicals into its diesel exhaust, providing it the rapid ability to cover itself. Beyond this, it was also designed to be difficult to detect under normal operating conditions. It has an auxilary electric power system, which enables it to turn off its main diesel engine and thus dramatically reduce its thermal signature, while it still can run its equipment from a stationary position. Even with the engine running it was supposed to be harder to detect, with active cooling of the exhaust and the conversion of waste heat to electricity, which provides both power and decreases the temperature. It also made some changes to the external shape to reduce radar signature, although of course protection continued to be the primary emphasis of the shape. Radar absorbent panels and paint can be added on as well, although this is not used in standard conditions. The newest EPS variant also includes laser warning receivers, and this has been applied to all units.

A highly sophisticated hard-kill countermeasures suite has been developed for the tank. In initial pre-production designs the active protection system was mostly based around a soft kill countermeasures suite, designed to fool enemy ATGMs with infrared countermeasures and send them off course. However, when it reached service, this has been replaced with a radar system, which detects incoming projectiles and launchers hard kill countermeasures at them from VLS systems mounted on the tank's turrets. It consists first of the long range engagement stage, where it uses its radar to pick up incoming projectiles, the mid-engagement stage, which has 4-6 (Varying by model of the system, initial units had 4, later ones 6) IR lasers further locate it for fire control and attempt to blind its sensor systems. If this does not succeed, in the final kill zone it launchers its hardkill countermeasures, which attempt to destroy the missiles or other weapons before they hit the tank. However, this was substantially improved on in the latest variants of the tank, in the Mod 1. This added in a laser warning receiver system (Although this had also appeared in the EPS variant), a radar jamming system, and hardkill countermeasures mounted in patches on the vehicle, which enable even faster response time. With this, it is possible for it to even potentially engage targets like anti-tank APFSDS, causing them to tumble before they hit the vehicle. However, given the high velocity of these rounds and relatively short range, it is entirely possible that they will not be stopped before they impact the tank. Another improvement was the much enhanced range that it could engage incoming fire at; previoussly it could intercept between -15 and +50 degrees, and on the latest variants this was improved to -15 and +80 degrees, giving much better defense against top attack munititions.

Mobility

High mobility has always been a common goal for Manchukuo tank designs from the time of the Type 26, which emphasized mobility above armor in almost all aspects (With the glaring exception being the turret armor). The Model 78 was no exception, and although by the time of its development there had been appropriate development that both mobility and protection could be ensured, it still emphasized having excellent mobility. One of the specifications issued during the design process was having a power to weight ratio in excess of 25 horsepower per ton, and it also would choose new, in arm suspension that would provide for important increases in overall flexibility and capabities.

At the time of the development, there were two main alternate choices competing for the engine system. The first, was a traditional diesel engine. And the second was a gas turbine engine. Previous Consortium tanks had used diesel engines, but by the time of the Model 78's development, gas turbine engines which offered reasonable efficiency, and high mobility existed. These offered greater acceleration than diesel engines, low sound (Which could theoretically be useful for surprise operations at close range), higher varieties of fuel that could be used, and the ability to start up in cold weather. If the Model 78 had been entering service just a few decades before, it is entirely possible that it would indeed have adopted a gas turbine engine. However, at the same time there were advances continually occuring in diesel engines, with increased power to weight ratios and better sophistication. This was combined with being less expensive, being more in line with many of the engines used by the rest of the Armed Forces, having a lower thermal signature, and most vitally, having much better fuel economy eventually meant that diesel engines would be adopted rather than gas turbines.

With the selection of what power type would be used, there was as a result the necessary essentials of choosing the power plant itself. In the case of the Model 78 Mod 0, it would be eventually equipped with a 1,600 horsepower engine, with the engine itself being the Model 74-1,600/12-DBTE-2 12 cylinder, 4 stroke, multi-fuel diesel engine, which is water cooled and twin-turbocharged. The intent of the power plant for the Model 78 was to provide a reliable, efficient, and powerful system that could be easily replaced and upgraded. In this it could be seen as a rather conservative element of the tank's design, relying on tried and tested technology. This gives the 61 ton machine a power to weight ratio of 26.5, which was viewed as adequate for its needs. At the same time, one important feature for its power system was the incorporation of an auxilary power unit, which in this case was an permament magnet motor, capable of generating up to 80 kW The main usage for this is providing power when the tank is stopped, so that it has reduced thermal emissions, and is more conservative regarding its fuel usage. As a result, it doesn't need to have the main engine running during times when it is stopped, which helps to increase range. It has 1,300 liters of fuel for supplying this, while it can also carry 300 liters of fuel externally in self-sealing fuel tanks at the rear, which are however generally dropped if a battle begins for understandable safety concern. This gives it an overall range of 620 kilometers on roads with external fuel, or 500 kilometers with internal fuel, which was viewed as suitable for its needs. Its battery pack is capable of charging when the main engine is running, with energy returns from the heat produced and harvested for the necessary power. The vehicle has continuously variable transmission, fully automatic, which permits it full speed in both forward and reverse, which in the case of the Model 78 is 82 kilometers on roads(Or 55 kilometers off road) forward or in reverse. However, this is generally below 60 in peace time to reduce wear and tear.

At the same time, there was continual development and expectation for what engine would be equipped to the Mod 1 unit that would appear as the upgrade to the Mod 0 units. While the Model 74-1,600/12-DBTE-2 did prove to be a reliable, and efficient engine, there was at the same time a wish to further increase overall mobility as compared to the base model. As a result, less than a decade after the Model 78 entered service, with the introduction of the Mod 1 variants, a new engine, the Model 85-1,800/12-DBTE-1 engine appeared. Like the original engine it was a multifuel diesel with 12 cylinders, water cooled and turbocharged. However, it increased horsepower substantially to 1,800 horsepoer on roughly similar displacement, and weight. This increased power to weight dramatically, to 29.5 horsepower per ton. The APU was at the same time maintained. There was an alternate course of action, for a hybrid power system with a permament magnet motor, and diesel, but this wasn't acted on since there was a wish to keep the current systems as similar as possible. Still, this is in continued development, and could still be equipped to a later version. However, the same fuel amounts were maintained for the Model 85-1,800-12-DBTE-1 (An engine with somewhat improved overall efficiency, so the actual range went up very slightly) and the transmission systems are not expected to be soon changed.

One of the key features for the Model 78 was its adoption of active hydropneumatic suspension, or in-arm suspension as it is sometimes called. The advantages of this is that it enables the vehicle to vary the height of all road wheels in an active manner, increasing or decreasing ride height. This means the vehicle can be lowered by a significant amount for travel on high ways, or raised for offroad travel. Also, the ability to lower it can signfiicantly decrease its overall height, meaning it can be effectively used in ambush situations and the like, being lowered to present a small target that is unseen, then engaging the foe or raising itself to peak over obstacles. In addition, the capability to independently vary portions means it can dynamically effect portions of the vehicle. For example, it can raise the rear and gain better gun depression, or the front and gain better elevation. This means that although the basic variant can achieve 10 degrees of gun depression and 15 degrees of gun elevation, it is possible for it to gain significantly more effectively by altering the state of its suspension system. Its millimeter scanner system also means that it can scan the ground in front of the tank and actively elevate its ride height, contributing to much smoother progress.

In addition, there are other capabilities possessed by the vehicle. It is capable of fording water up to 1.2 meters deep without any preparation, and with its snorkel system, it can extend this up to 4 meters. It can also climb over obstacles up to a meter high, and cross trenches up to 3.2 meters, while it can climb slopes up to 40 degrees. Furthermore the ability for the vehicle to quickly accelerate and stop is evident, as its high power to weight ratio means it can quickly attain high speeds, being able to reach 35 kilometers in just under 6 seconds. A hydrokinetic retarder can be automatically used at high speed, bringing it to a halt quickly and smoothly.

Crew

Most modern Manchukuo fighting vehicles use a crew of 3, with a driver, gunner, and commander. In the past vehicles used 4 man crews, with a commander, driver, gunner, and loader, but with modern autoloaders this is no longer used to the same extent. A major emphasis for the Model 78 was its crew, as it could be operating for extended periods of time in a combat environment, and thus they needed to be capable of being maintained in reasonable comfort. This manifests itself in a variety of ways. For example, the chairs that the crewmembers have can be reclined back a fair degree, while they are also made from quality soft materials. There is a capability for it to connect to the internet when in contact with friendly forces, as part of its standard communication systems. Furthermore it also has climate control, with full control over the pressure, temperature, and humidity. A hot and cold water dispenser and a small amount of equipment for brewing hot drinks or making cold ones is also available, as well as a hot plate. For the bodily functions, a small onboard toilet is also provided. The crew can store their personnel effects in the turret bustle racks, which can be quickly detached if damaged in battle or if some other reason requires it.

The future
The Model 78 is expected to remain in service until 3830 at the very least, four decades in the future. Although there are great expectations for the continual evolution of tank forces during this time, the belief is that it should be well equipped for adapting to meet them. Its ability for its armor to be rapidly and efficiently upgraded, the already tested turret changes with an entirely different unmanned turret, and experiments regarding a 145mm gun system being fitted instead of the current 127mm gun proved that it can be adapted to meet future requirements. Over the coming decades, expected improvements include the eventual trialling of an electric-diesel drive system, improvements to its armor, ammunition changes, electronic upgrades, an improved gun mostly focusing on increased strength and lightened weight (Although the Model 79 already does well enough in this regard).

Utilization

Despite some proposals for switching all armored units into armored divisions, tanks continue to be deployed in both infantry and armored divisions by the Consortium of Manchukuo. The main intent of the Model 78 is to provide a decisive component of a battle force, with the firepower to deal with targets, and the protection needed to survive in an active role on the modern battlefield. Thus, they serve to support breakthrough attempts, provide supporting assistance and firepower to other assists, and to provide a mobile reserve that can be quickly and rapidly brought into account to counter-attack enemy pushes. Ultimately, it was viewed that having armored units in every important formation to provide localized support, with the ability to rapidly concentrate force from other formations would be more vital than only having them in armored units for the greater concentration of force.

Although there is no official division of armored units in the Armed Forces, there has been something of a specialization that occurs between the 180 and 127 series. Both are issued to both armored and infantry units, but a much greater proportion of the 180 series goes to the support of the infantry units than the 127 does. This is a logical reaction to the capabilities of the tanks; 180 series vehicles, are, without a doubt, much more capable at providing fire support than even the already highly capable 127 units. However, 127 do have a more multi-purpose engagement capability, and are still preferred in the anti-armor role even if the 180s are on their own quite adequate for such work.

Variants

Entered Production

FMBT-70/60-TS
Pre-production model
Model 78-127 Mod 0
First production model.
Model 78-127 Mod 0/1
Slightly modified version of the Model 78 Mod 0 that emerged in 3780, incorporated different electronics
Model 78-180 Mod 0
First tank of the 180 series, incorporated a 180mm/28 gun, unmanned turret to reduce height form 2.35 to 2.32 meters, inclusion of commander and gunner in hull, complete automation of turret, re-arangement of internal systems, strengthed frontal armor slightly.
Model 78-UES-Mle. 84-AU
Transition to fiber optic components and new electronics, applied to all tanks. Increased resistance to EMP and decreased weight as a result.
Model 78-EPS.-Mle 84-AU
Upgraded ERA, upgraded composite armor, laser warning receivers added. Standardized across all units.
Model 78-UAVC-Mle. 82-AU
Added storage for UAV and catapult launch system.
Model 78-Mod 1-Mle. 87-AU
Combined upgrade of the UACV, EPS, and UES variants along with a new power pack, upgrade to fire control sensors, increased top armor protection against top-attack munitions, change to new Mle. 86-APS-A active protection system with radar jammer.
Model 78 CEV
Combat engineering vehicle; equipped with a bulldozer blade, a shorter 180mm gun (L/15 instead of L/28) for firing HEP and HEAT rounds to demolish fortifications, and an A-frame crane.
Model 78 BLV
Bridge laying vehicle, equipped with an 18 meter bridge capable of sustaining transit by MBT units.
Model 78 AMCS
Assault mineclearing system, equipped with explosive mine clearing charge systems. Used to quickly create a breach in defensive minefields.
Model 78 IFV
Infantry fighting vehicle, space for 12 passengers, 76mm autocannon in turret with anti-tank missile launcher. Adopted in limited quantities, equips elite armored divisions.
Model 78 ARV
Model 78 Armored Recovery Vehicle

Proposed
Model 78 CRV
Model 78 Combat Reconnaissance Vehicle, 40mm turret autocannon and missile launcher, alongside enhanced optics. Not adopted.
Model 78-145
Proposal to mount a 145mm/50 tank gun to replace the 127mm/64 tank gun currently in service. Passed trials, still may be adopted if necessary.
Model 78-MMBT
Model 78 Missile Main battle Tank, fitted with ATGM-70-Mle. 72/M3 launcher, reduced profile. Rejected.
Model 78-CAT
Model 78-Casemate Anti-Tank, 160mm/64 gun in casemate mounting, improved frontal armor. Not adopted.
Model 78-DADV
Model 78 Divisional Air Defense Vehicle, x2 76mm autocannons, radar system, anti-air missiles. Rejected.
Model 78-CV
Model 78 Command Vehicle. 20mm autocannon as main armament, interior space for command staff. Not adopted, although still considered.
Model 78-LT
Model 78 Light Tank, reduced armor protection to decrease weight to 40 tons, 127mm main gun. Not adopted.

[Questers]

One of the best designs posted on this thread. Idk what you're modelling the toilet on tho. It sounds like a chemical toilet, which exist in British tanks but apparently nobody uses them.

[Rich and Corporations]

One of the best designs posted on this thread. Idk what you're modelling the toilet on tho. It sounds like a chemical toilet, which exist in British tanks but apparently nobody uses them.

I think the porta pottie is for emergencies!

[Consortium of Manchukuo]

One of the best designs posted on this thread. Idk what you're modelling the toilet on tho. It sounds like a chemical toilet, which exist in British tanks but apparently nobody uses them.

Thanks, I got a lot of useful information out of posts you had made on the various threads (Military realism thread 5 has been the main one I've read but I did used to read the military ground vehicles of your nation thread a lot more) and your naval resources page, I must say I am rather pleased that you think the design is as good as you indicate. However, I admit that I haven't put much research into the toilet facilities. It had seemed to be a logical thing to add, since if people are operating in NBC combat environments for days, which might happen with my nation and its enemies or NS environments, that having a toilet would be really good for morale. But I hadn't put much more into that that knowing that I would include one. If the British are the only people who have one, should I just use their systems? Do most nations keep them out due to space constraints? It seems like with all of the concern for survivability on the nuclear battlefield that was expressed since the 1950s that at least a few Western nations would have come up with the installation other than the British(Being British the British would of course do it, but then they have the oddest projects it seems). Of course for the Soviets it would be different since the Soviets thought that their armored units were going to have problems with sustained action in a nuclear environment anyway and thus their decreased support units per tank division, but the Western nations seem like they would have prioritized their units being able to have high morale and combat effectiveness under NBC conditions for sustained periods of times. Or is there something I am missing and the waste can be disposed of efficiently without such an installation when the crew cannot leave the vehicle?

[Questers]

One of the best designs posted on this thread. Idk what you're modelling the toilet on tho. It sounds like a chemical toilet, which exist in British tanks but apparently nobody uses them.

Thanks, I got a lot of useful information out of posts you had made on the various threads (Military realism thread 5 has been the main one I've read but I did used to read the military ground vehicles of your nation thread a lot more) and your naval resources page, I must say I am rather pleased that you think the design is as good as you indicate. However, I admit that I haven't put much research into the toilet facilities. It had seemed to be a logical thing to add, since if people are operating in NBC combat environments for days, which might happen with my nation and its enemies or NS environments, that having a toilet would be really good for morale. But I hadn't put much more into that that knowing that I would include one. If the British are the only people who have one, should I just use their systems? Do most nations keep them out due to space constraints? It seems like with all of the concern for survivability on the nuclear battlefield that was expressed since the 1950s that at least a few Western nations would have come up with the installation other than the British(Being British the British would of course do it, but then they have the oddest projects it seems). Of course for the Soviets it would be different since the Soviets thought that their armored units were going to have problems with sustained action in a nuclear environment anyway and thus their decreased support units per tank division, but the Western nations seem like they would have prioritized their units being able to have high morale and combat effectiveness under NBC conditions for sustained periods of times. Or is there something I am missing and the waste can be disposed of efficiently without such an installation when the crew cannot leave the vehicle?

Tankies are usually trained to operate around 24 hours in a tank. I guess by that time they're out of the hazard zone and can pop out to take a shit. But I read once that British crews were trained to stay buttoned up in a Chieftain for a WEEK. I guess thats maybe because our doctrine was more static than everyone elses but it may simply be a case of the British being more thorough.

The toilet is a hole underneath one of the seats were you can put a plastic bag with shit in it. The chemicals would deoderise the shit. I can't confirm this btw. This is not properly sourced. But this feature definitely existed in Scorpion/Scimitar.

[Consortium of Manchukuo]

Thanks, I got a lot of useful information out of posts you had made on the various threads (Military realism thread 5 has been the main one I've read but I did used to read the military ground vehicles of your nation thread a lot more) and your naval resources page, I must say I am rather pleased that you think the design is as good as you indicate. However, I admit that I haven't put much research into the toilet facilities. It had seemed to be a logical thing to add, since if people are operating in NBC combat environments for days, which might happen with my nation and its enemies or NS environments, that having a toilet would be really good for morale. But I hadn't put much more into that that knowing that I would include one. If the British are the only people who have one, should I just use their systems? Do most nations keep them out due to space constraints? It seems like with all of the concern for survivability on the nuclear battlefield that was expressed since the 1950s that at least a few Western nations would have come up with the installation other than the British(Being British the British would of course do it, but then they have the oddest projects it seems). Of course for the Soviets it would be different since the Soviets thought that their armored units were going to have problems with sustained action in a nuclear environment anyway and thus their decreased support units per tank division, but the Western nations seem like they would have prioritized their units being able to have high morale and combat effectiveness under NBC conditions for sustained periods of times. Or is there something I am missing and the waste can be disposed of efficiently without such an installation when the crew cannot leave the vehicle?

Tankies are usually trained to operate around 24 hours in a tank. I guess by that time they're out of the hazard zone and can pop out to take a shit. But I read once that British crews were trained to stay buttoned up in a Chieftain for a WEEK. I guess thats maybe because our doctrine was more static than everyone elses but it may simply be a case of the British being more thorough.

The toilet is a hole underneath one of the seats were you can put a plastic bag with shit in it. The chemicals would deoderise the shit. I can't confirm this btw. This is not properly sourced. But this feature definitely existed in Scorpion/Scimitar.

Perhaps I won't include the toilet then. While a significant part of my doctrine on the strategic level as it stands now is for standing forces hold out as long as possible and delay the enemy until my main reserves can mobilize, I'm not expecting to have a totally static line of defense where nothing moves. And a large portion of the nuclear doctrine I worked out for my nation is preventing widespread exchange of nuclear weapons on the strategic and tactical level unless if it is completely necessary. While having a toilet would be nice for units in some nuclear exchange area for a long period of time, ultimately units will be cycling in and out of the battle line for long enough to deal with bodily needs in the rear areas. So having the toilet would be just a pointless luxury in the way I'm expecting my forces to be used in the majority of circumstances, and while I doubt it causes a significant increase in weight or complexity, if there isn't a reasonable reason for me to have it then it doesn't need to be included. It shouldn't be to hard to modify the tanks to use a toilet in some later variant if that ever proves necessary anyway. Actually would be a good way of showing that we learn lessons from [insert conflict here], with even little improvements like that.

[Heilarchy]

Panzer IV

[Wardie land]

Tanks

Tankettes
Carden Loyd tankette, this 1920s British tankette saw little service with the RIWTR in the Third Snow War 1939-1940, a couple remain in service in the colonies for scouting, imperial policing and training.


Type 94 tankette, an early 1930s Japanese tankette, saw some service with second-line armoured brigades in the Third Snow War, saw more service with the Pro-Empire Front, it was used in anti-infantry, infantry-support and recon roles, Wardie land designated was "Tankette Mk I (J)", "J" standing for "Japanese", a couple found in the colonies.


Type 97 Te-Ke, entered service in 1937, was primarily used as a scout, infantry support tank and against the T-26, outclassed by the BT tanks, Wardie land designation was "Tankette Mk II (J)", a few can be found in the colonies.


Light tanks

Renault FT, a WW1 light tank, saw service in rear-guard and training units in the Third Snow War, only two are left in active service, and both service with 49th Armoured Training Troop, Wardie land designation is "Light Tank Mk I (F)", "F" standing for "French"


T1 Cunningham, a prototype US light tank of the 1920s, didn't see much service in the Third Snow War due to be effectively obsolete, designated "Light Tank Mk I (A)" by Wardie land, "A" standing for "American", one is still in service, in the Southern colonies.


Light Tank Mk I (G), based on the "Leichttraktor", an experimental German tank from 1930, they were intented to be used only by second-line tank squads during the Third Snow War, however the Pro-Empire Front's front-line usage of them proved so successful against Snow land's T-26s they saw limited service with RIWTR front-line tank squads, LIght Tank Mk I (G)s are still used in the Western and Eastern colonies, as well as by a few training units.


Light Tank Mk VI, useful in the imperial policing role, which the Mk VI was designed for, designed for combat in jungles, Armament is one Vickers .50 machine gun and one co-axial .303 Vickers machine gun

Vickers 6-ton, multiple variants were used
6-ton Mk I, anti-infantry tank

6-ton Mk II, equipped with a short-barrel 3-pounder gun, this was the most common type of 6-ton tank to see service


Type 95 Ha-Go, 1936 Japanese light tank, entered service in 1937, outclassed by the BT-5 and BT-7 in the war, but was more satisfactory against the T-26, primarily used for infantry support and scouting


T-26, some Snow landian tanks were captured during the war, most of them were T-26 tanks, the T-26 was used by Wardie land as a training and rear-guard tank, and by the Snow landian Pro-Empire Front on the frontlines, Wardie land/Snow landian T-26s were designated "Light Tank Mk I (R)", "R" standing for "Russian", a few can still be found in RIWTR service today, as imperial policing tanks, as well as scouts and trainers


BT-series tanks, several variants of BT tank were supplied to Snow land by the USSR in the 1930s, these were the BT-2, BT-5 and BT-7. The BT tanks were superior to the T-26 and outclassed the Japanese tanks used by Wardie land and the SLPEF (though they struggled against Wardie land's British-designed medium tanks), however it was discovered they could be easily destroyed by anti-tank teams using petrol bombs. Examples of each of these variants were captured by Wardie land forces or Snow land Pro-Empire Front forces, the BT-2 was used only as a training tank (and as a second-line tank by the SLPEF), the BT-5 and BT-7 was used by both Wardie land and the SLPEF on the front lines.

BT-2 was designated "Light Tank Mk II (R)", BT-5 was designated "Light Tank Mk III (R)" and BT-7 was designated "Light Tank Mk IV (R)"
BT-2 tank

BT-5 tank

BT-7


LT Vz. 34, Czecoslovak light tank of 1934, saw only limited service in the war and had been largely supplanted by the Vz. 35 and Vz. 38 by Wardie land, designated "Light Tank Mk I (CZ)", "CZ" standing for "Czechoslovakian".



LT Vz. 35, a Czechoslovak light tank from 1935, entered service in 1935, armed with a Czeckoslovak PÚV vz. 34 anti-tank gun (the same type used on the Vz. 34) and 2 Vickers, Vickers K(T), Lewis and BESA machine guns (later also Browning and Bren guns), this tank was liked by crews. Wardie land designated was "Light Tank Mk II (CZ)".

LT Vz. 35 in Home Islands/Jungle camo


LT Vz. 38, a Czechoslovak light tank from 1938, saw service with Wardie land and the SLPEF, was one of the heaviest tanks used by the SLPEF, who weren't allowed to use heavy tanks, and only used one type of medium tank, in case they decided to turn on the Wardie land allies, Wardie land designation was "Light Tank Mk III (CZ)".



Light Tank Mk VI


Light Tank Mk VII Tetrarch, equipped with a QF 2-pounder, Mk VII* is equipped with a 3 inch howitzer, with an Imperial Automobiles 12-cylinder 165 hp petrol engine, Mk VII can go up to speeds of 40 mph, making it ideally suited as a recon and scout tank, a notable fault was the Tetrarch only had a crew of 3, and the gunner or commander has to also act as the loader, causing delays in combat

Light Tank Mk VII Tetrach


Light Tank Mk VIII "Harry Hopkins", a variant of the Tetrarch, like the Tetrach the Harry Hopkins is equipped with a QF 2-pounder, Mk VIII is equipped with a 149 hp Imperial Automobiles 12-cylinder petrol engine, giving a top speed of 30 mph, Mk VIII* is equipped with Tetrarch's 165 hp 12-cyl petrol engine, increasing speed to 40 mph, Mk VIII* also uses the 3.7 inch howitzer, Mk VIII is the basis for the Alecto tank destroyer/SPG

Light Tank Mk VIII


Light Tank Mk III (G), the Light Tank Mk III (G) is a Wardie land version of the VK 1602 "Leopard" planned German recon tank of 1942, with a top speed of 34 mph, mounted with a 2 inch KwK 39 derivative, Mk III* (G) is equipped with a 2.95 inch KwK 41 derivative, the original planned armament for the "Leopard", and Mk III** (G) is equipped with a QF 2 pounder tank gun

Light Tank Mk III (G)


SK-105 Kürassier, Austrian light tank, licence-built by Wardie land using imperial measurements, nicknamed "Crease Face", due to the strange-looking oscillating turret, whilst the SK-105 can fit an autoloader, but Wardie land versions don't have one, Wardie land has shunned the autoloader all together in favour of more traditional and simpler hand-loaded guns


SK-105 in the Western Colonies


Medium tanks
Vickers Medium Mk I, this 1920s medium tank entered service with the RIWTR in 1926 and was used to great effect in the Saqan Rebellion of 1933, the Mk I was supplemented by the Mk II in 1929, the QF 3-pounder main gun proved to be good against the Snow landian T-26 tanks used in the Third Snow War

Medium Mk I in Home Islands/Jungle camo




Vickers Medium Mk IA*


Vickers Medium Mk II, a slightly improved version of the Medium Mk I, entered service with the RIWTR in 1929 and served in the Saqan Rebellion of 1933 alongside the Mk I, during the Third Snow War the Quick-Firing 3-pounder main gun proved effective against the T-26s, captured Medium Mk Is and IIs used by Snow land were well-liked by the Snow landian tank crews who used them


Vickers Medium Mk III (E3), the E3 was last of three Vickers Medium MK III tanks built, the E3 variant had improved suspension but didn't enter production due to its high price, in 1934 the Mk III E3s was licence-built by Wardie land Royal Imperial Armouries, 30 were built, they were deployed across the empire, 10 of them were sent to the northern colonies and took part in the Third Snow War, like the earlier Medium Mk I and Mk II tanks (which the Mk III wasn't based on, the Mk III was separate design) the Mk III had a 3-pounder gun, but also 3x 0.303 Vickers guns, the Mk III was one of the best tanks of the war, a combination of relatively heavy armour and power, the Mk III generally dominated the T-26, Snow land managed to capture one, but this was destroyed.


Type 89 I-Go, designed in 1928 and entered service with Japan in 1932, entered service with RIWTR in 1933, by 1939 was considered obsolete due to light armour because it was built to support infantry, rather than engage tanks, Wardie land used them as training or rear-guard tanks in the war, however they saw service on the frontlines with Snow landian Pro-Empire Front tank brigades, was satisfactory against the T-26 light tank, but was outclassed against the BT-5 and BT-7, designated "Medium Tank Mk I (J)" by Wardie land.


Type 97 Chi-Ha, Japanese medium tank of 1938-1943, entered Wardie land service in 1938 and used by second-line tank squads during the war, but on the front line by the Snow landian Pro-Empire Front, the main gun of the Type 89 I-Go, Type 95 Ha-Go, Type 97 Chi-Ha and Type 97 Chi-Ni was mediocre in performance, but was still effective against the T-26, however the BT-5 and BT-7 light tanks also used by Snow land outclassed all Japanese tanks in Wardie land service at the time, the BT's gun had longer range the Type 97, designated "Medium Mk II (J)" by Wardie land.


Type 97 Chi-Ni, intended as cheaper alternative to the Type 97 Chi-Ha, only one was produced in 1937 before the project was abandoned in favour of the technically superior but more expensive Type 97 Chi-Ha, the Chi-Ni was used in the war primarily as a scout and infantry support tank, the Chi-Ni's main gun, which was the same used on the Type 89 I-Go, Type 95 Ha-Go and Type Chi-Ha, was satisfactory against the T-26, but was outclassed by the 45mm gun of the BT-5 and BT-7, entered service in 1938 as the "Medium Tank Mk III (J)".


Type 4 Chi-To medium tank, the most advanced Japanese tank of WW2, 四式中戦車 チト (Yonshiki chūsensha Chi-To, Type 4 medium tank Chi-To) began development in 1943 as a replacement for the effectively obsolete Type 97 Chi-Ha medium tank, only 2 were built however, and the war ended before either of them could be used, In mid-1944 a technical mission to Japan brought back several new designs, mostly plane designs, but also a few gun designs, and the designs for the Chi-To, Medium Mk VI (J) (Wardie land designation) is equipped with a Type 5 2.95 inch (75mm) tank gun and 2x 0.303 Bren, Vickers or Type 97 guns, Medium Mk VI* (J) is a refit with a 17 pounder tank gun. AA tank Mk II (J) is a modified version mounting a two Bofors QF 40mm or QF 2-pounder "Pom-Pom" autocannons in a modified turret, AA tank Mk II* (J) is an AA tank Mk II (J) refitted with a modified QF 3.7 inch AA gun

Medium Mk VI (J)


Medium Mk VI* (J)


Cruiser tanks
Cruiser Mk I, entered service 1938, as a Cruiser tank the Cruiser Mk I was designed to use its fast speed to bypass main enemy lines (which would be left for the infantry and infantry tanks) and engage enemy communication lines and tanks in the rear, therefore they lacked the armour and firepower infantry tanks had, the Mk I served well hitting enemy supply lines and T-26 tanks, however was mechanically unreliable.


Cruiser Mk II, the Mk II had heavier armour than the Mk I and was designated a "heavy cruiser", the Mk II also served well behind enemy lines, disrupting supply convoys and destroy T-26 tanks, Cruiser Mk II only entered service in December 1939, so wasn't commonly seen during the war


Cruiser Mk III, Mk III used the Christie suspension, Mk III entered service in 1938, like the Cruiser Mk I it was under-armoured and mechanically unreliable, but still served well against enemy supply convoys, communications and light tanks like the T-26


Société d'Outillage Mécanique et d'Usinage d'Artillerie (SOMUA) S35, French Cavalry tank (another name for a Cruiser tank) of 1936, 30 were bought in 1937, where they we're initially designated SOMUA Medium Mk I (S35) (the "(S35)" part of the designation being added to avoid confusion with the SOMUA S40, which was given the same designation) before the Medium class was split into Cruiser and Infantry tanks, in late 1938 they were re-designated SOMUA Cruiser Mk I (S35), several more S35s were delivered in 1943, the S35s delievered in 1943 were formerly captured and used by the Wehrmacht, before Germany passed some of their S35s on to their allies. In 1945 several S35s were refitted to take 17 pounder anti-tank guns.
As with many tanks Wardie land S35s went through several design changes, Mk I was the standard model equipped with the 1.9 inch (47 mm) SA 35 gun, Mk I* was equipped with a SOMUA S40 engine, which raised the top speed, Mk II used the more powerful 1.9 inch (47 mm) SA 37 gun, Mk III was refitted to take a QF 2 pounder gun, Mk III* was refitted to take a QF 3 pounder gun, Mk IV was equipped with a 3.7 inch field howitzer and Mk V was a tank destroyer refitted with a 17 pounder gun.

SOMUA Cruiser Mk I* in Home Islands/Jungle camo

SOMUA Cruiser Mk III in Home Islands/Jungle camo


Infantry Tanks
Renault R35 light infantry tank, entered service in 1936 as Renault Medium Tank Mk I, in late 1938 was re-designated Renault Infantry Tank Mk I, was re-designated again in 1940 as the Renault Infantry Tank Mk I (R35) to avoid confusion with the related Renault R40 tank, which got the same designation.


Renault R40 light infantry tank, the R40 was designed as an improvement over the R35, the R40 had a longer gun than R35 and modifications to the suspension system, some R40s entered service in 1940 and were designated Renault Infantry Tank Mk I (R40), to avoid confusion with the R35.


Matilda Mk I, the Matilda I entered service in 1938, Matilda I was equipped with a Vickers .303 machine gun or Vickers .50 machine gun, since Matilda I only used a machine gun it was not intended for attacking tanks, but for infantry support and attacking "soft" or lightly-armoured vehicles and buildings


Matilda Mk I*, Matilda Mk I with Vickers machine gun replaced with a QF 2-pounder AT gun, meaning the Matilda Mk I packed more of a punch against enemy tanks.
Matilda Mk I* in a type of Home Islands/Jungle camo


Matilda Mk II entered service in November 1939, so they were rarely seen in the war, they had 2-pounder guns and heavy armour, and were among the best tanks to serve in the war, T-26 and BT tanks found it almost impossible to penetrate their armour, and the 2-pounder gun they used penetrated the thin armour of the T-26 and BT with ease, well-liked by crews their limited numbers meant the Snow landian Mechanised Army wasn't totally dominated by them


Matilda Mk II in Home Islands/Jungle camo


Churchill, the Tank, Infantry, Churchill, was a heavy infantry tank built in the 1940s, they were amongst the heaviest tanks in Wardie land service, these days they serve in the colonies

Churchill Mk I


Churchill Mk III


Churchill Mk III in a type of Western Colonies camo


Churchill Mk IV


Churchill Mk IV in Home Islands/Jungle camo


Churchill Mk VII


Churchill Mk VIII


Churchill Mk X


Churchill AVRIE Petard, Churchill Mk III AVRIE (Armoured Vehicle Royal Imperial Engineers) fitted with a Petard mortar


Heavy tanks
Vickers A1E1 Independent, a prototype heavy tank built in the 1920s, only one was built by Vickers before the project was abandoned due to lack of funds, Wardie land produced 15 in 1926-1929, 4 of them served in the Third Snow War, equipped with a QF 3-pounder main gun and 4x .303 Vickers machine-guns, the Independent tanks served well in the war


Main battle tanks
Leopard Mk I, licence-built German MBT, Mk I is equipped with a 20 pounder tank gun, Mk I* is equipped with a 32-pounder tank gun, Mk I** is equipped with a 4.13 inch (105mm) L7 tank gun

Leopard Mk I**


Tank Destroyers/Self-Propelled Guns

to be continued

[Morganutopia]

Tanksb]

Main battle tanks
Leopard Mk I, licence-built German MBT, Mk I is equipped with a 20 pounder tank gun, Mk I* is equipped with a 32-pounder tank gun, Mk I** is equipped with a 4.13 inch (105mm) L7 tank gun

Leopard Mk I**
(Image)

[b]to be continued

Are you modern tech? In my humble opinion that the 105 is now to week for MT.

[Imperializt Russia]

Tanksb]

Main battle tanks
Leopard Mk I, licence-built German MBT, Mk I is equipped with a 20 pounder tank gun, Mk I* is equipped with a 32-pounder tank gun, Mk I** is equipped with a 4.13 inch (105mm) L7 tank gun

Leopard Mk I**
(Image)

[b]to be continued

Are you modern tech? In my humble opinion that the 105 is now to week for MT.

It's still widely used, by vehicles considered "tank destroyers" in nature.
It will certainly penetrate the rear of the vehicle, probably the side, and certainly disable vehicles.

[Crookfur]

Anyway its interesting to note how much stick Cheiftan crews used to give Leopard crews over thier shiny new tanks having an antique popgun. ribbing which redoubled when they discovered that the cheiftan was faster and vastly more comfortable across country but promptly stopped as the cheiftans broke down again...


I'm not sure about week long closed down operations in Cheiftan but 72 exercises were very common and infact made up part of the original pre-service trials. Even these were regarded as being spectaculalry not fun. George Forty's book has the tale of the initial exercise and how the crew though they had won the lottery when the loader sliced his arm open around the 40hour mark only to have thier hopes of an early finish dashed when the medics would only treat the loader by means of him sticking his arm up through his hatch...

The smae book has lots of stuff on the horrors of the vent tube loader and the hysterical but ingenius 1970s gunnery simulators but so far nothing on the crew ammenities.

[The Akasha Colony]

Perhaps I won't include the toilet then. While a significant part of my doctrine on the strategic level as it stands now is for standing forces hold out as long as possible and delay the enemy until my main reserves can mobilize, I'm not expecting to have a totally static line of defense where nothing moves. And a large portion of the nuclear doctrine I worked out for my nation is preventing widespread exchange of nuclear weapons on the strategic and tactical level unless if it is completely necessary. While having a toilet would be nice for units in some nuclear exchange area for a long period of time, ultimately units will be cycling in and out of the battle line for long enough to deal with bodily needs in the rear areas. So having the toilet would be just a pointless luxury in the way I'm expecting my forces to be used in the majority of circumstances, and while I doubt it causes a significant increase in weight or complexity, if there isn't a reasonable reason for me to have it then it doesn't need to be included. It shouldn't be to hard to modify the tanks to use a toilet in some later variant if that ever proves necessary anyway. Actually would be a good way of showing that we learn lessons from [insert conflict here], with even little improvements like that.

Once upon a time the Jaguar II had a toilet, but Sumer pointed out that it would (at least as I had configured it) take up a good deal of space and be difficult to access. That isn't as much of a problem with the toilet configuration the British use, although it's a bit generous calling it a "toilet" to begin with.

[Purpelia]

Perhaps I won't include the toilet then. While a significant part of my doctrine on the strategic level as it stands now is for standing forces hold out as long as possible and delay the enemy until my main reserves can mobilize, I'm not expecting to have a totally static line of defense where nothing moves. And a large portion of the nuclear doctrine I worked out for my nation is preventing widespread exchange of nuclear weapons on the strategic and tactical level unless if it is completely necessary. While having a toilet would be nice for units in some nuclear exchange area for a long period of time, ultimately units will be cycling in and out of the battle line for long enough to deal with bodily needs in the rear areas. So having the toilet would be just a pointless luxury in the way I'm expecting my forces to be used in the majority of circumstances, and while I doubt it causes a significant increase in weight or complexity, if there isn't a reasonable reason for me to have it then it doesn't need to be included. It shouldn't be to hard to modify the tanks to use a toilet in some later variant if that ever proves necessary anyway. Actually would be a good way of showing that we learn lessons from [insert conflict here], with even little improvements like that.

Once upon a time the Jaguar II had a toilet, but Sumer pointed out that it would (at least as I had configured it) take up a good deal of space and be difficult to access. That isn't as much of a problem with the toilet configuration the British use, although it's a bit generous calling it a "toilet" to begin with.

Could you elaborate?

[The Akasha Colony]

Once upon a time the Jaguar II had a toilet, but Sumer pointed out that it would (at least as I had configured it) take up a good deal of space and be difficult to access. That isn't as much of a problem with the toilet configuration the British use, although it's a bit generous calling it a "toilet" to begin with.

Could you elaborate?

When I originally added a toilet, it was somewhat based on Lyras' description, which meant that it was a separate "area." This however takes up a good deal of space in a vehicle that should keep such space expenditures to an absolute minimum in order to keep protected volume as low as possible. It would also be hard to access for various crewmembers unless the vehicle were enlarged even more. This isn't as much of a problem with the British "toilet" since as Questers notes, it's just a bag with some deodorizing chemicals that can be placed underneath one of the seats, and ultimately makes even the Apollo program toilets look pretty luxurious. You don't need any space for this since it just goes under one of the existing seats.

Of course, at least he hasn't added a kitchenette, like I've seen some people claim to add (complete with small corridor to access it).

[Registug]

Everything in a tank should be within arm's reach anyway; can't waste time or space trying to clamber around inside the compartment.

[The Akasha Colony]

Everything in a tank should be within arm's reach anyway; can't waste time or space trying to clamber around inside the compartment.

Nah bro, don't you want a toilet, a kitchenette, weapons, food, and medical lockers, and your entrenching tools all inside the vehicle?

[San-Silvacian]

Everything in a tank should be within arm's reach anyway; can't waste time or space trying to clamber around inside the compartment.

Nah bro, don't you want a toilet, a kitchenette, weapons, food, and medical lockers, and your entrenching tools all inside the vehicle?

12x66cm revolver.

What the shit.

I don't even.

What.

[Gvozdevsk]

Gvozdevsk can into their own vehicles


Blackfoot Infantry Mobility Vehicle
Place of Origin: Gvozdevsk
In Service: 2014
Weight: 6 tonnes (no add on armor)
Length: 4.42m (174.1 in)
Height: 2.03m (80 in)
Width: 2.08m (82 in)
Crew: Driver, gunner, 3 passengers
Armor: STANAG level 1-4
Armament: DShK, H&K GMG or ATGM (export customers may specify different armament)
Engine: Diesel, 200 hp
Capacity: 1500 kg (3307 lb)
Transmission: 6 speed automatic
Suspension: 4x4
Ground clearance: 406.4mm (16 in)
Operational range: 500km
Speed: 140 km/h (87 mph)

The Blackfoot IMV was developed in response to light infantry desiring a more protected vehicle than the Land Rover Defender it is meant to replace. In 2010, the RG-32 was adopted as a stop-gap measure, while the Gvozdevski Armed Forces evaluated candidates for the Next Generation infantry Vehicle program. This included the RG-32, Iveco LMV, GAZ Tigr, Dingo 2, Bushmaster IMV and the locally designed Blackfoot IMV. The Blackfoot would win against these foreign designs as not only did it prove to be effective in the role it was designed for, it would also provide a boost to the national economy through production for both national use and export.

The Blackfoot was adopted in early 2014 with the 14th Rifles Regiment, based in the capital. Roll out to other light infantry units has been going smoothly and is expected to be completed by early 2015 at the latest.

(please tell me if my measurements seem to be off so I can fix them)

[Consortium of Manchukuo]

Everything in a tank should be within arm's reach anyway; can't waste time or space trying to clamber around inside the compartment.

Nah bro, don't you want a toilet, a kitchenette, weapons, food, and medical lockers, and your entrenching tools all inside the vehicle?

>No butler for opening up the door for them and attending to their needs
>No world class chef for preparing food
>No interior decorator approved designs
>No home movie theatre
>No shrine to the dear leader of their nation for brainwashing purposes
>No cheerleading team
>No zoo with wild animals for emergency self defense and appreciation
>No emergency medical bay

i am disappoint

[San-Silvacian]

Gvozdevsk can into their own vehicles
(Image)

Blackfoot Infantry Mobility Vehicle
Place of Origin: Gvozdevsk
In Service: 2014
Weight: 6 tonnes (no add on armor)
Length: 4.42m (174.1 in)
Height: 2.03m (80 in)
Width: 2.08m (82 in)
Crew: Driver, gunner, 3 passengers
Armor: STANAG level 1-4
Armament: DShK, H&K GMG or ATGM (export customers may specify different armament)
Engine: Diesel, 200 hp
Capacity: 1500 kg (3307 lb)
Transmission: 6 speed automatic
Suspension: 4x4
Ground clearance: 406.4mm (16 in)
Operational range: 500km
Speed: 140 km/h (87 mph)

The Blackfoot IMV was developed in response to light infantry desiring a more protected vehicle than the Land Rover Defender it is meant to replace. In 2010, the RG-32 was adopted as a stop-gap measure, while the Gvozdevski Armed Forces evaluated candidates for the Next Generation infantry Vehicle program. This included the RG-32, Iveco LMV, GAZ Tigr, Dingo 2, Bushmaster IMV and the locally designed Blackfoot IMV. The Blackfoot would win against these foreign designs as not only did it prove to be effective in the role it was designed for, it would also provide a boost to the national economy through production for both national use and export.

The Blackfoot was adopted in early 2014 with the 14th Rifles Regiment, based in the capital. Roll out to other light infantry units has been going smoothly and is expected to be completed by early 2015 at the latest.

(please tell me if my measurements seem to be off so I can fix them)

I think Kord would be a better weapon than DShK.

[Viritica]

Pfft, none of your pathetic tanks could ever beat the mighty Churchill.

[Gvozdevsk]

I think Kord would be a better weapon than DShK.

I like working handicaps into my military sometimes instead of making everything the best. So I decided my military would be kind of lazy when it comes to replacing HMGs and still considers the DShK to be fine. Not saying an upgrade is totally out of the question though.

[San-Silvacian]

(Image)
Pfft, none of your pathetic tanks could ever beat the mighty Churchill.

None as in ever? Or none as in era?

Because Sherman Firefly lols @ u.