NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #5

[Inyourfaceistan]

So in the case the enemy can shoot down my Maverick/Hellfire/Vikhr, what is the best way to overcome it? Shoot more missiles? Always equip every CAS aircraft with ARM's and just kind of launch as close as possible with helicopters?

[Inyourfaceistan]

I try, but tbh I'm high like 60% of the time, so when I'm not I do bold.

Wow this explains so much...

[Austrasien]

So in the case the enemy can shoot down my Maverick/Hellfire/Vikhr, what is the best way to overcome it? Shoot more missiles? Always equip every CAS aircraft with ARM's and just kind of launch as close as possible with helicopters?

Yup.

[Velkanika]

In which case, the ideal vehicle for the role is light, fast, small, and maneuverable. Sounds more like a 4x4 with a (fire-and-forget?) ATGM than a 100-ton monster tank. And as an added bonus, you can use an ATGM and a 4x4 that already exist in your current military service, instead of designing/purchasing an entirely new tank from scratch.

This is yet another case where you must sit down and ask "If no RL country, in all of modern history's combinations of terrain, type of opponent, and funding, has ever done this before, why is it suddenly a very good idea for me to do it?"

Okay Ashaka.

Well, the whole point to using a cannon would be because its not as susceptible to counter measures as ATGMs and even TOWs.

Please explain to us how exactly you intend to counter a wire-guided ATGM.

[Firmador]

Okay Ashaka.

Well, the whole point to using a cannon would be because its not as susceptible to counter measures as ATGMs and even TOWs.

Please explain to us how exactly you intend to counter a wire-guided ATGM.

C-RAM.

[Tule]

http://iiwiki.com/wiki/Gallan_Army

The greatest Army ever to grace NS.

10/10, would not fight.

Apart from massive environmental damage and the possibility of accidents, would nuclear sea mines be viable? I would assume so, but as I've proven on a many an occasion, I've been wrong before.

It would be highly effective against a fleet if triggered by one.

But the cons outweigh the pros by far.

The biggest problem with a nuclear sea mine is the fact that it is very expensive and very hard to control once deployed. You don't know if the mine is going to destroy an enemy fleet, a single enemy ship (in which case a conventional sea mine would do just as well), or a friendly ship or convoy. It would be hard to find and recover as well, which is btw the whole point of a mine.

A nuclear torpedo or depth charge would make more sense.

[Crookfur]

In general, "airborne-capable" (as opposed to "full-blown" paratroopers/ VDV for example) troops (e.g. some light infantry / elite but not really) , can they into high altitude drops or just plebian low altitude ones ? From what I understand HALO and HAHO carry with them certain risks and require special equipment (and logically special training?) compared to drops from lower altitudes .

And also can the entirety of "dedicated" airborne troops into HALO/HAHO or just some of them?

HALO/HAHO jumps are very specialised and pretty much restricted to special forces and specialist "pathfinder" type elements of an airborne force.

Airborne capable multi role infantry units would still be using more or less the same gear and drop techniques as full time paratrooper formations as they all receive the same jump school training

[Velkanika]

Please explain to us how exactly you intend to counter a wire-guided ATGM.

C-RAM.

You're putting a Phalanx CIWS on a tank?

[Firmador]

C-RAM.

You're putting a Phalanx CIWS on a tank?

I stated this before, there's land-based mobile C-RAM platforms. Israel has them, and Germany is building its own integrated system. If this strategic point would go so far as to warrant the purchase of specialised TD, I don't think it'd be a far stretch to purchase C-RAM, which as I said before would give a peripheral bonus to your front line troops. (Unless someone wanted to make a frontline version o.0)

[New Vihenia]

So in the case the enemy can shoot down my Maverick/Hellfire/Vikhr, what is the best way to overcome it? Shoot more missiles? Always equip every CAS aircraft with ARM's and just kind of launch as close as possible with helicopters?

Saturate it, shoot some moar missiles.

[San-Silvacian]

Please explain to us how exactly you intend to counter a wire-guided ATGM.

C-RAM.

LOLOLOLOLOL

I laughed irl

[New Tyran]

Please explain to us how exactly you intend to counter a wire-guided ATGM.

C-RAM.

Nope, just realized it now.

[Velkanika]

You're putting a Phalanx CIWS on a tank?

I stated this before, there's land-based mobile C-RAM platforms. Israel has them, and Germany is building its own integrated system. If this strategic point would go so far as to warrant the purchase of specialised TD, I don't think it'd be a far stretch to purchase C-RAM, which as I said before would give a peripheral bonus to your front line troops. (Unless someone wanted to make a frontline version o.0)

Holy fuck, my sides are entering orbit!

Those would die so fast in a high-intensity war it isn't even funny. And unless the C-RAM is parked next to the tank, it won't be able to help with ATGMs. Even then, it could engage one or two at most before a volley arrives on target. That thing is designed to defend a FOB or town center in a low-intensity war from sporadic mortar and rocket fire, not deal with swarms of low-flying missiles and a full-scale artillery barrage.

This is when you should stop arguing and admit you're an idiot, by the way.

[Firmador]

C-RAM.

Not missiles man.

Well, whatever. Same thing, just got me abbreviations mixed up

"Even then, it could engage one or two at most before a volley arrives on target. That thing is designed to defend a FOB or town center in a low-intensity war from sporadic mortar and rocket fire, not deal with swarms of low-flying missiles and a full-scale artillery barrage."

Well I assumed that if it was good enough to be a critical component for a fleet's anti-missile defense it would be good enough to defend a patch of ground. But okay, I'm an Idiot. I thought electronic, gun and missile anti-missile systems were more developed and much more effective than they are.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

http://iiwiki.com/wiki/Gallan_Army

The greatest Army ever to grace NS.

The principal tactical unit of the Gallan Army is the regiment, which is organised around three brigades

WAT

Your regiments have brigades in them?

Or do I srs need to go to sleep ?

[Inyourfaceistan]

So in the case the enemy can shoot down my Maverick/Hellfire/Vikhr, what is the best way to overcome it? Shoot more missiles? Always equip every CAS aircraft with ARM's and just kind of launch as close as possible with helicopters?

Saturate it, shoot some moar missiles.

Well damn...

[Firmador]

Saturate it, shoot some moar missiles.

Well damn...

You can see why I hate missiles, no class

[San-Silvacian]

I'm an Idiot.

Admittance is the first step.

Though srs have you seen a Phalanx IRL? They aren't exactly the lightest things.

[Firmador]

I'm an Idiot.

Admittance is the first step.

Though srs have you seen a Phalanx IRL? They aren't exactly the lightest things.

I know. I just thought SysFla actually had a really high Pk ratio. In that case, it would make sense. I was arguing that these be purchased for very specific terrains, like my reason of having a road terminal smack dab in the middle. You know, park one behind a rock face, or try to conceal/enfilade it but the actual detection system be camo'd in the open, track the missile for the CIWS? and when it passes infront of one of the decoys or actual TD * fire. I think anti-missile missiles are more restricted to longer range missiles.

But now I don't get to have my Jagdpanzer

"Tactical use*
On the battlefield, the Germans sometimes had to retreat, or try to feign one. Their line of retreat would then preferably pass the location of their anti-tank units who would use their superior firepower to stop the enemy, perhaps even make possible a counter-attack. Due to the lack of a turret and the armour being concentrated at the front, the ideal combat situation for Jagdpanzer units was in the planned ambush, and the skill of the commander of such units lay in correctly choosing and preparing such places long before needed."

Oh well, Leclerc spam it stays!

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Well I assumed that if it was good enough to be a critical component for a fleet's anti-missile defense it would be good enough to defend a patch of ground. But okay, I'm an Idiot. I thought electronic, gun and missile anti-missile systems were more developed and much more effective than they are.

It isn't critical all. In fact everyone is moving towards some form of missile CIWS because the pure gun CIWS is fast becoming pure ship decoration. Probably because it can't put a killing shot at every possible location multiple incoming and manoeuvering missiles may be at.

[Velkanika]

Not missiles man.

Well, whatever. Same thing, just got me abbreviations mixed up

"Even then, it could engage one or two at most before a volley arrives on target. That thing is designed to defend a FOB or town center in a low-intensity war from sporadic mortar and rocket fire, not deal with swarms of low-flying missiles and a full-scale artillery barrage."

Well I assumed that if it was good enough to be a critical component for a fleet's anti-missile defense it would be good enough to defend a patch of ground. But okay, I'm an Idiot. I thought electronic, gun and missile anti-missile systems were more developed and much more effective than they are.

Skyshield has the word "sky" in it for a reason. It's an air-defense system and costs way too much to risk being placed forwards of even SPAAGs to shoot at AT missiles.

Second, Silvacian is right. Phalanx is the size of a small car, and then you have to put it on something to drive it around.

Third, that's assuming your enemy doesn't spot the ambush or wise up to that tactic after you pull it once.

[Velkanika]

Well I assumed that if it was good enough to be a critical component for a fleet's anti-missile defense it would be good enough to defend a patch of ground. But okay, I'm an Idiot. I thought electronic, gun and missile anti-missile systems were more developed and much more effective than they are.

It isn't critical all. In fact everyone is moving towards some form of missile CIWS because the pure gun CIWS is fast becoming pure ship decoration. Probably because it can't put a killing shot at every possible location multiple incoming and manoeuvering missiles may be at.

Missiles are also surprisingly resilient to autocannon fire.

[Firmador]

Well, whatever. Same thing, just got me abbreviations mixed up

"Even then, it could engage one or two at most before a volley arrives on target. That thing is designed to defend a FOB or town center in a low-intensity war from sporadic mortar and rocket fire, not deal with swarms of low-flying missiles and a full-scale artillery barrage."

Well I assumed that if it was good enough to be a critical component for a fleet's anti-missile defense it would be good enough to defend a patch of ground. But okay, I'm an Idiot. I thought electronic, gun and missile anti-missile systems were more developed and much more effective than they are.

Skyshield has the word "sky" in it for a reason. It's an air-defense system and costs way too much to risk being placed forwards of even SPAAGs to shoot at AT missiles.

Second, Silvacian is right. Phalanx is the size of a small car, and then you have to put it on something to drive it around.

Third, that's assuming your enemy doesn't spot the ambush or wise up to that tactic after you pull it once.

Well I meant more the "units lay in correctly choosing and preparing such places long before needed." But regardless, I'll be retaining my Leclerc fleet.

Would ground ATGM missiles be resilient to autocannon fire, thought they were smaller and easier to destroy?

[New Vihenia]

Oh c'mon Weren't we already have hardkill APS for ATGM killing duty ? Why there's someone still thinking of putting phalanx on a tank ?

[Firmador]

Oh c'mon Weren't we already have hardkill APS for ATGM killing duty ? Why there's someone still thinking of putting phalanx on a tank ?

Well I think I understand you, and I think I agree with you... but I think this is a trap