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Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation [NO MECHS] Mk.V

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Next OP for the MGVoYN[NM] Thread

The Kievan People
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9%
Questers
6
7%
Rich and Corporations
1
1%
Yes Im Biop
6
7%
Anemos Major
38
47%
Dragomere
19
23%
Mod Controlled
4
5%
 
Total votes : 81

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Dostanuot Loj
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Postby Dostanuot Loj » Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:58 pm

The Akasha Colony wrote:
Anacasppia wrote:Out of curiosity: why then are progressive upgrades of the T-55, T-62, T-72, and T-80 considered very much viable? T-90 is case in point. I'm guessing that its because the designs of these tanks still have room and potential for additions without overburden.


Because all of these are more modern than a 1948 tank, and the T-64 and T-72 which form the foundation of the current T-80 and T-90 are significantly newer. Even then, they're reaching the limit of their upgradeability, which is why the Russians want something closer to a clean slate design. The older T-55 and T-62 hit the limit of their upgradeability long ago, which is why they've been replaced in Russian service and in the service of most militaries that can afford to do so.


That's not actually true.

We'll take the T-55, for example, which is little different structurally from a T-54, and thus a T-44. You can upgrade virtually anything on a tank, simply by replacing it. Especially older tanks, which are little more then steel boxes, things can be removed, moved, changed, etc. All you need to ensure is a) volume, and b)strength. Volume can be changed fairly easily, even without cutting steel (And you can do that too). Strength is less an option, but can be added also, but it is limited by the weight of the vehicle, and itself limits the weight of the vehicle, so it is not so much changed IRL.

The reason you replace vehicles over time is not so much upgradability, but wear and tear, and suitability. A tank will only be useful for so many years of use before it needs to be scrapped because the hull or turret or other major parts are so worn they are unable to continue on without serious fatigue. At this point, you need a new hull, new turret, new whatever. So then you can either build the old hull and upgrade, or build a new hull with the upgrades already in it. If you do the latter, you have a new tank!

Engines, fuel, suspension, weapons, systems, fire control, even crew placement, can all be changed fairly easily.
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Rich and Corporations
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Postby Rich and Corporations » Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:33 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TR-85 God bless Romanian T-55.
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The National Socialist Philippines
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Postby The National Socialist Philippines » Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:34 pm

since we are a Post Modern Nation we use things like
Image
but we use Modern Tanks like
Image
Leopard II
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Lamoni
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Postby Lamoni » Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:08 pm

Split tracks like the ones used on the picture of your "PMT" tank are a hillariously BAD idea. For one thing, you're going to have a much harder time turning the tank. In order to turn, a tank must move one track forward while moving the other one backward. Imagine how much harder that it will be on the automotive equipment of tank when you have to do that with four tracks, instead of two. It'll also break down more often.

Basically, take everything that you need to use with just two tracks, and multiply that by two.
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Souriya Al-Assad
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Postby Souriya Al-Assad » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:26 am

Lamoni wrote:Split tracks like the ones used on the picture of your "PMT" tank are a hillariously BAD idea. For one thing, you're going to have a much harder time turning the tank. In order to turn, a tank must move one track forward while moving the other one backward. Imagine how much harder that it will be on the automotive equipment of tank when you have to do that with four tracks, instead of two. It'll also break down more often.

Basically, take everything that you need to use with just two tracks, and multiply that by two.


One of endless reasons those "PMT" tanks are hilariously overrated indeed.

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The National Socialist Philippines
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Postby The National Socialist Philippines » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:56 am

Lamoni wrote:Split tracks like the ones used on the picture of your "PMT" tank are a hillariously BAD idea. For one thing, you're going to have a much harder time turning the tank. In order to turn, a tank must move one track forward while moving the other one backward. Imagine how much harder that it will be on the automotive equipment of tank when you have to do that with four tracks, instead of two. It'll also break down more often.

Basically, take everything that you need to use with just two tracks, and multiply that by two.

lemme fix that :)
Image
Last edited by The National Socialist Philippines on Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Vitaphone Racing
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Postby Vitaphone Racing » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:09 am

The problem with PMT and FT is that it's endlessly influenced by sci-fi and not by sci. So yeah, you're going to have problems. It's not that PMT sucks, it's just that most PMT and FT we see in society (which people inevitably try to emulate on NS) is flawed in many ways.
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Ea90
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Postby Ea90 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:12 am

The Akasha Colony wrote:The older T-55 and T-62 hit the limit of their upgradeability long ago

Ukraine would like a word with you.

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The National Socialist Philippines
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Postby The National Socialist Philippines » Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:20 am

Vitaphone Racing wrote:The problem with PMT and FT is that it's endlessly influenced by sci-fi and not by sci. So yeah, you're going to have problems. It's not that PMT sucks, it's just that most PMT and FT we see in society (which people inevitably try to emulate on NS) is flawed in many ways.

I am a die hard World War II tank fan...I have no interest in Modern and PMT weapons. I am just using these for the sake of military strength
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Neutral:Monarchy,Homosexuals,etc...
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Anemos Major
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Postby Anemos Major » Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:20 am

Ea90 wrote:Ukraine would like a word with you.


Ukrainian upgrade packages are pretty fantastic. A 125mm gun modification with autoloader for the T-55? No problem.

Late repost for justice, short hiatus on the write-up while I wait for some French books on tank technology to arrive.



Image
The fifth HT9A8 prototype vehicle, built for the Army Office of Technological Development and attached to the Second (Rei) Division during its testing period. [Full size here]

Image
An HT9A8 1S of the 5th the Guards Brigade of Horse Grenadiers, stationed in northern Duchy Fierei as part of the Fourth (Fierei) Division. [Full-size here.]

Image
An HT9A8 1S fitted with UCP (Urban Combat Package) modules. Changes to the base HT9A8 include a thicker forward ERA array, full NERA coverage by lowered and thicker side-skirts, slat armour around the engine block, a 360 degrees camera mounted on the Multipurpose Sensor Mast, the use of a 25mm airburst AGL in the RWS block, modifications to allow wireless communications with infantry within 200m of the vehicle and a universal electronics reacharge point and provisions for the storage of up to 400kg of equipment at the back of the tank. [Full-size here.]

HT9A8 'Istrenyr' - First Standard (Block I) - Main Battle Tank

Designation:
Numerical Designation: HT9A8/IOCY
Name: "Istrenyr" - "Lancer Wyvern"

Key Data:
Crew: 3 (Commander, Gunner, Driver)
Designer: ODT-Milityr (Formatyr 'Yvernyr 2015')
Cost: TBA

Dimensions:
Length:
- Hull: 8.1m
- Gun forwards: 11.3m
Height:
- Turret roof: 2.2m
- Incl. RWS: 2.7m
- Chassis: 1.6m
Width:
- Hull: 3.7m
- w/ SCSP skirts: 4.1m
- w/ SCSP skirts: 4.4m
Weight:
- Base combat: 66,500kg
- w/ SCP applique: 73,800kg
- w/ UCP package: 79,500kg

Propulsion:
Engine: MA.252/mod H2, 22L, electronically-controlled, liquid-cooled, hyperbar, 10 cylinder opposing piston EUI diesel engine
Power: 2,000hp (1,491kW, steady state)
Power/Weight ratio: 30.08hp/tonne
Transmission: FMA MHPT M.550 Semi-Automatic Transmission, epicyclic gearing, hydrokinetic torque conversion, 6 forward/2 reverse gears
Suspension: In-Arm Active Controlled Hydropneumatic
Wheels: 7 road wheels, rear drive (12-tooth sprocket), front idler with 6 return rollers

Performance:
Speed:
- Road: 74kph road speed (electronically governed)
- Reverse (road): 38kph
- Cross-country: 52kph
Operational Range: 490km (internal fuel, road)
Acceleration: 0 to 32kph in 4.8 seconds

Armament:
Main Armament: 128mm SC12.4 55 calibre solid propellant smoothbore cannon, fitted with thermal sleeve and automatic compressed air fume extractor
- Ammunition: 42 rounds, 30 in two-bloc reloadable autoloader magazine (APFSDS/HEDP-MF/GLATGM/MRKE mix)
- Elevation: -9/+15 deg
- Elevation rate: 30 deg/sec
- Traverse: 360 deg
- Traverse rate: 45 deg/sec
Coaxial station (left): 12.7mm MG/H8A3 heavy machinegun (can be replaced by modular block compatible weapons)
- Ammunition: 2000 rounds (12.7x99mm, HEIAP/HEIAP-T mix)
Commander's weapon: 20mm M.30 Automatic Cannon on Powered Remote Weapons System (interchangeable with compatible armaments)
- Ammunition: 1000 rounds (20x120mm CTA, APFSDS-T)
- Elevation: -15/+60 deg
- Elevation rate: 40 deg/sec
- Traverse: 300 deg
- Traverse rate: 60 deg/sec
Additional: Mounting point for 1x commander-operated ultralight UAV, left and right turret mounting points for additional armaments
Fire Control: Aoede Digital Fire Control System

Protection:
Armour: Mordens-3 Passive Protection Suite (Standard Combat Protection layout)
- Base: Multiple layer composite (multiple alloy-ceramic), IRHA/Type 7720 Ti-Al alloy base
- Forward Applique: Composite-tiles backed modular EERA array, TiB2/Ti-6Al-4V cover fronting
- Side Applique: 5-section IRHA skirts with mounted composite-tiles backed NERA
- Additional Armour: Top-mounted NERA and distruptive plating, further protection can be added as necessary
Passive Protection Systems: Castel Passive Protection Component
- Sensors: 4 module full-coverage coarse/fine laser detection/missile warning suite, five-unit distributed full-coverage thermal imaging system, secondary coarse thermal signature warning system, 9-faced distributed phased-array pulse doppler radar, acoustic detection sensor, cateye sensor
Active Protection Systems: Castel Active Protection Component
- Soft-kill: 2x E/MY.23 'Astal' Electro-Optical Interference Emitters (one unit on either side of turret), 2x E/MY.303 Independent Infra-Red Jamming units (on topside of turret, fully traversible)
- Hard-kill: 4x aimable MEFP launcher modules, 2x guided KE interceptor arrays (one unit on either side of turret)
NBC: Collective and overpressure protection, compartmentalised auxiliary systems, full vehicular climate control, mast-mounted environmental detector (biological/chemical agents and gamma radiation), EMP hardening
Fire: Pentafluoroethane, automatic (crew compartment), Halon 1301 extinguishing/foam fuel tank self-sealing suite (engine block)
Smoke: 2x 8-barrel, 2x 4-barrel 3-in (76mm) multiple role dischargers, one of each on each turret side, variable autocue, diesel injection into engine exhausts

Sensors:
Primary Gunnery Sight: Eletyr MYR-34 full-stabilisation gunnery sighting suite (Daytime Optical Channel (3x, 10x, 20x three-step optical magnification), 3CCD video daytime channel (default magnification of 3x and 10x with digital magnification up to 20x), 3rd generation staring FLIR (3x, 7.5x (WFOV) 15x, 25x, 50x (NFOV) five-step magnification)
- Laser rangefinder: Eye-safe pulsed CO2 laser
- Gunnery aids: Stabilised doppler LADAR, roof-mounted crosswind sensor, integral muzzle reference sensor
Commander's Independent Sight: Eletyr MYS-404 full-stabilisation independent sighting unit (Daytime Optical Channel (3x, 10x, 20x three-step optical magnification), 3rd generation staring FLIR (3x, 7.5x (WFOV), 15x, 25x (NFOV) four-step magnification)
- PWRS sensors: Daytime 3CCD Video Channel (3x, 10x magnification with digital magnification up to 25x, 2nd generation staring FLIR (3x, 10x, 15x three-step optical magnification with digital magnification up to 30x), eye-safe Nd:YAG laser rangefinder
Elevated Optronics Mast: Eletyr MYR-31 full-stabilisation 3rd generation staring FLIR (3x, 7.5x (WFOV) 15x, 25x, 50x (NFOV) five-step magnification)
Additional sensors/sights:
- Gunner: Auxiliary 8x telescope
- Commander: 5-unit distributed 3CCD vehicular periphery viewing array
- Driver: Observation block (three-block observation periscope to left, centre and right, passive IR-sight, 3CCD camera visuals at fore and aft)

Communications/Networking:
Communications Management: SAIC Combat Networking Suite
Radio: CAGRE (Common Air-Ground Radio Environment) architecture multi-mode VHF/FM (30-150 MHz) radio, CAGRE compliant multi-mode ALE/ALE(3G) HF (1600-29999 kHz) command radio
Networking: Multi-mode UHF IPv4 compliant high capacity data radio, IEEE 802.11 standard ad-hoc E-WLAN, digital broadband connection capability
Battle Management: CombatNet Tactical Battle Networking Framework (WarNet integrated), IEEE L-Band IFF transponder, GPS receiver, IVIS datalink, POS/NAV capability
Protection: Proprietary compression/encryption, dynamic malware protection, EMP hardening (boron carbide shielding, computer hardening (SRAM, depleted boron-coated chip arrays, partial redundancy, error-correcting memory)



HT9A8 Developmental Timeline

- 1971: Directorate of Armaments and Procurement (DAP, now the Army OTD) initiates studies into the development of a deep modernisation package for the HT6A4 Alentyr C Main Battle Tank, then in development.
- 1975: The 120mm armed HT6A5 Alentyr D 'Artal' enters production. The DAP approves the formation of a number of small scale study groups under the auspices of various state arsenals to look into conceptual developments towards an eventual successor for the second generation HT6 series.
- 1978: A full scale development group is established under Section 2 of the DAP's Land Warfare Office to develop the HT6A6 upgrade package for the Alentyr D.
- 1979: Senior members of the DAP go on record as having serious reservations about plans to retain the HT6 as a mainline battle tank into the 1980s.
- 1980: Direct intervention by the Chief of the Army Staff leads to the full closure of the 1975 study groups, the then commander of DAP's Land Warfare Office (Colonel Tersi Solendyr) and twenty-four additional officers tender resignations over the decision.
- 1981: Introduction of the Alentyr D2 (HT6A7) upgrade package into service.
- 1983: An inquiry by Imperial mandate (headed by Baron Illen) finds that the Alentyr D2 is significantly inferior to numerous 'third generation' main battle tanks then entering service in areas ranging from armament and protection to electronics and mobility.
- 1984: Following an internal consultation by the Imperial Army, the DAP is instructed to pursue the immediate development of a third generation main battle tank.
- 1985: Study of concepts for the YT7 is produced, DAP Section 2 establishes a separate research group with corporate branches towards the development of principles of technology for a future main battle tank.
- 1988: The initial technical trialing vehicles are completed.
- 1990: The first eleven production prototypes are presented to the DAP, an extension of the trial period is requested by the DAP but rejected by the Army.
- 1992: Initial deliveries of the new tank to the Imperial Army, enters service as the HT7 'Fyrdestyr'. The new tank's performance reports are not released to the Imperial Staff as scheduled.
- 1993: The 15th Brigade of Heavy Horse's commanding officer refuses to re-equip his unit with HT7 tanks and is dishonourably discharged.
- 1994: Announcement of the 'Millenium' armed forces modernisation project and the establishment of direct Crown oversight into the modernisastion process itself. The forced release of the HT7's performance figures and financial irregularities point to significant misconduct concerning procurement at higher levels of the army, culminating in the then-Chief of the Army Staff's suicide and forced resignation of half of the Army Staff in its wake. The emergency procurement of the HT8 (Leclerc) Main Battle Tank is approved.
- 1997: First Leclerc-equipped brigade is rotated out of training into active service.
- 1998: An internal agreement is reached between the new Army Staff and the Army's new Office of Technological Development concerning the development of a successor to the HT8, whereby the initial development of a successor would be carried out by a state-owned corporate conglomerate from design principles established by the DAP's research groups while a longer-term developmental project would be pursued by a production group formed and headed by the OTD.
- 1999: Army issues official Request For Information for a domestically designed MBT to replace the HT8.
- 2001: Fierei-Oblastinei Automotives and Metalworks Group established via the intervention of the Army and secures the production contract for the now designated YT9 tank.
- 2003: Conceptual studies produced by the OTD for 'Tank 2015'.
- 2004: Technical prototypes for the HT9 series completed and presented to the Army by FOAM.
- 2006: First production prototype of the HT9 (the HT9A6 model) dispatched for field testing in Asakura. Following reservations voiced by the OTD concerning the proposed 140mm armament for the HT9, a prototype 128mm high performance gun is built to the OTD's specifications and tested on an HT9A6 chassis as the HT9-128.
- 2008: Finalisation of the HT9A7 design and delivery of the first production prototype to the Army.
- 2009: OTD completes production of first four technical prototypes (three automotive and one for basic armament testing) for the then-designated 'HT9-2015' in early 2009, followed by two additional prototypes for electronics and FCS testing.
- 2010: First deliveries of the HT9A7 to frontline units.
- 2011: Completion of the final SC12.4 128mm cannon design.
- 2012: First delivery of the OTD's 'HT9-2015' production prototype vehicle to the Crown Army, accepted into service as the HT9A8 and entering production within two months.
- 2013: First deliveries of the HT9A8 to frontline units.

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Ea90
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Founded: Aug 26, 2010
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Postby Ea90 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:43 am

Anemos Major wrote:Ukrainian upgrade packages are pretty fantastic. A 125mm gun modification with autoloader for the T-55? No problem.

Indeed.

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Yes Im Biop
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Postby Yes Im Biop » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:30 am

The National Socialist Philippines wrote:since we are a Post Modern Nation we use things like
(Image)
but we use Modern Tanks like
(Image)
Leopard II


Both very nice looking tanks. Hm, I may have to use that first one instead of my current tquad track one
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Mozria
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Postby Mozria » Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:07 am

Why use split-tracks at all? Their only benefit is increased terrain-conformation ability while cresting hills or navigating uneven ground, and then this "advantage" is negated by increased ground pressure and reliability issues. Also, external track pods are significantly more difficult to armor effectively, as well as requiring a complex force-transfer system to operate while the unit is changing elevation and depression to hug the ground.

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Our Most Resplendent Goddess Sen
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Postby Our Most Resplendent Goddess Sen » Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:52 am

Anemos Major wrote:(Image)
An HT9A8 1S fitted with UCP (Urban Combat Package) modules. Changes to the base HT9A8 include a thicker forward ERA array, full NERA coverage by lowered and thicker side-skirts, slat armour around the engine block, a 360 degrees camera mounted on the Multipurpose Sensor Mast, the use of a 25mm airburst AGL in the RWS block, modifications to allow wireless communications with infantry within 200m of the vehicle and a universal electronics reacharge point and provisions for the storage of up to 400kg of equipment at the back of the tank. [Full-size here.]


<3
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Canuckland
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Postby Canuckland » Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:41 am

Mozria wrote:Why use split-tracks at all? Their only benefit is increased terrain-conformation ability while cresting hills or navigating uneven ground, and then this "advantage" is negated by increased ground pressure and reliability issues. Also, external track pods are significantly more difficult to armor effectively, as well as requiring a complex force-transfer system to operate while the unit is changing elevation and depression to hug the ground.

Not all artists are tank experts.

That's why.
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Orussia
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Postby Orussia » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:09 am

Ea90 wrote:
The Akasha Colony wrote:The older T-55 and T-62 hit the limit of their upgradeability long ago

Ukraine would like a word with you.

Indeed.
Ukrainian T-62 sexiest T-62.
RIP Rhoderberg
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May your spirit live on in FALhalla.
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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:25 am

Orussia wrote:
Ea90 wrote:Ukraine would like a word with you.

Indeed.
Ukrainian T-62 sexiest T-62.

I'm told the T-64U is quite awesomesauce.
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Orussia
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Postby Orussia » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:32 am

Imperializt Russia wrote:

I'm told the T-64U is quite awesomesauce.

It's not bad looking, that's for sure.

Also, is it just me, or does the SU-152 Taran have the same chassis as the 2S3/2S4/2S5?
RIP Rhoderberg
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May your spirit live on in FALhalla.
The Anglo-Saxon Empire wrote:His penetrator is MASSIVE!
Talon independent nation wrote:And so missiles did come unto man, and man did see it was good, and did smite down the land battleships of his foe with totally awesome explosions.

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Democratic Socialists

Postby Kouralia » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:41 am

ewwwww

Je n'aime pas regarde a le char de bataille de l'est Europe et Russie.

They're so icky they make me revisit my GCSE French from two years ago, and most people should know how I feel about France.
Kouralia:

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Orussia
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Postby Orussia » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:36 am

Kouralia wrote:Je n'aime pas regarde a le char de bataille de l'est Europe et Russie.

Vy dolzhny nauchit'sya tsenit' tank slavnoy Rodiny!
RIP Rhoderberg
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May your spirit live on in FALhalla.
The Anglo-Saxon Empire wrote:His penetrator is MASSIVE!
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Oaledonia
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Postby Oaledonia » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:14 pm

Vitaphone Racing wrote:It's not that PMT sucks, it's just that most PMT and FT we see in society (which people inevitably try to emulate on NS) is flawed in many ways.

That's the fun in it! Getting something that could be realistic in the near future without wanking or going too Sci-fi. For PMT, I made a tank that had a better penetrating gun and better equipment, nothing too fancy.
Last edited by Wikipe-tan on January 13, 2006 4:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Blackjack-and-Hookers wrote:
Oaledonia wrote:I'll go make my own genocidal galactic empire! with blackjack and hookers

You bet your ass you will!
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Ea90
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Ex-Nation

Postby Ea90 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:15 pm

Oaledonia wrote:That's the fun in it! Getting something that could be realistic in the near future without wanking or going too Sci-fi. For PMT, I made a tank that had a better penetrating gun and better equipment, nothing too fancy.

Link?

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Kouralia
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Postby Kouralia » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:16 pm

Orussia wrote:
Kouralia wrote:Je n'aime pas regarde a le char de bataille de l'est Europe et Russie.

Vy dolzhny nauchit'sya tsenit' tank slavnoy Rodiny!

Non parlo inferiorità.

:p
Kouralia:

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The Ashkenazi
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Postby The Ashkenazi » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:21 pm

Orussia wrote:
Kouralia wrote:Je n'aime pas regarde a le char de bataille de l'est Europe et Russie.

Vy dolzhny nauchit'sya tsenit' tank slavnoy Rodiny!

Da tovarishch. Russkie tanki luchshie tanki.

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Rich and Corporations
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Postby Rich and Corporations » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:24 pm

Mozria wrote:Why use split-tracks at all? Their only benefit is increased terrain-conformation ability while cresting hills or navigating uneven ground, and then this "advantage" is negated by increased ground pressure and reliability issues. Also, external track pods are significantly more difficult to armor effectively, as well as requiring a complex force-transfer system to operate while the unit is changing elevation and depression to hug the ground.

The T95 used four tracks, the extra pair was removed for rail transport.
So there are benefits.
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