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by Kouralia » Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:39 am
by Aethal » Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:43 am
Kouralia wrote:By how much can I shorten a round if I make it metal storm, in terms of length of a round and propellent compared to a regular cased bullet.
Also, could I use a speed-loader in a metal storm revolver?
by Imperializt Russia » Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:47 am
Also,Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.
by Aethal » Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:48 am
by Kouralia » Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:00 am
Imperializt Russia wrote:Can't remember if the 12.7mm round or the 15.7mm round, but I imagine very short. The grenades have contained propellant, not 100% sure how the bullets mounted their propellant.
The 9mm MS round has a definite kind of stalk in its base, which I assume is for like a brick of solid propellant to be fitted.
The ammunition comparison they have stacks their 60mm mortar shell, 40mm grenade, 15.7mm 2nd Gen bullet and 9mm bullet together. Since the grenade is ~96mm, I estimate the 15.7mm bullet at ~60mm long and the 9mm bullet at 20-25mm OAL including that stalk. The 15.7mm bullet has no conspicuous stalk so may have self-contained propellant within the base of the projectile.
by Aethal » Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:02 am
by Imperializt Russia » Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:12 am
Kouralia wrote:Imperializt Russia wrote:Can't remember if the 12.7mm round or the 15.7mm round, but I imagine very short. The grenades have contained propellant, not 100% sure how the bullets mounted their propellant.
The 9mm MS round has a definite kind of stalk in its base, which I assume is for like a brick of solid propellant to be fitted.
The ammunition comparison they have stacks their 60mm mortar shell, 40mm grenade, 15.7mm 2nd Gen bullet and 9mm bullet together. Since the grenade is ~96mm, I estimate the 15.7mm bullet at ~60mm long and the 9mm bullet at 20-25mm OAL including that stalk. The 15.7mm bullet has no conspicuous stalk so may have self-contained propellant within the base of the projectile.
So, basically I could take a ~23mm long bullet (i.e. .45ACP) and make it, say, 30mm long in total?
Also,Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.
by Kouralia » Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:16 am
Imperializt Russia wrote:Kouralia wrote:So, basically I could take a ~23mm long bullet (i.e. .45ACP) and make it, say, 30mm long in total?
Eh, probably.
Obviously it makes for some saving in length (though that's more an academic concern unless you're loading cartridges rather than barrels, like you would on the later AICW concepts and on my own OICW).
The 15.7mm bullet is almost the exact same length as the 12.7x99mm bullet and like I said before, may actually have a self-contained propellant.
I imagine on that basis, the increased calibre may be to retain the mass of the 12.7mm bullet equivalent. Its shape for a bullet, boxy as balls, also implies its intent in systems like the shipboard close-defence that I posted about, for short-range work.
by DnalweN acilbupeR » Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:28 am
Spirit of Hope wrote:DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:
Tbh looking at it in perspective, it seems like time (and money) well spent. Indeed, some skills covered involve using equipment that the regular GI won't be carrying on his person. But perhaps at least some of that equipment is available, even in 1 specimen at least in the vehicle if not in the dismounted squad. (or give them the stuff only when they're acting as medics) I reckon it should come in handy in situations with many injured soldiers, or when help isn't readily available, or in humanitarian actions (whether domestic or foreign) .
After all, you're training that grunt to kill for weeks or even months on end, you could at least give him a couple of weeks worth of medical training for a change. By no means is this supposed to replace more highly skilled medics ; rather, it allows the regular G.I. to be of more help (rather than a nuisance) to medics.
I'm thinking of doing the same thing with my civilian emergency services (police, fire)
Most of a grunts training isn't about killing, its about forming him into a soldier who acts as part of a unit. That takes time to do right, after that you start moving into more advanced skills that they will actually use for killing. So you are just adding in training that they won't use.
Medics might carry a bag valve mask, that makes sense, but a back board, cervical collars, or oxygen tanks are right out of the question. Its stupid to have those in anything other than a dedicated ambulance. They just don't get used that much, cost money and take up space. I'm a life guard and most pools stop have one backboard for hundreds of people, because you will never need more than that. Anything more complicated isn't worth having around because you need a lot more dedicated training to make sure you use it right and in the right situations and you won't need it in the time it takes the properly trained people to arrive.
On the battlefield most injuries aren't going to come anywhere close to needing that equipment, and training, from your grunts. Medics should be at the very least around in sufficient numbers at the company level, if not the platoon level. Which means a fully trained and equipped medic should be around to actually do the important bits of first aid in a couple of minutes. Which means your grunt needs to be able to extend his "patients" life for only a short amount of time. For this he needs to know how to deal with large bleeding injuries, CPR and when he can't do anything. Thats a couple of hours with maybe a day of practical training, if you want to you can add the minor stuff in with the major stuff I just listed, not useful in a combat situation sure but useful for people to know in general. But that is at most 2 days of training and practical hands on training.
If you want to go above that level you start looking at weeks/months to properly train someone so they won't misdiagnose or improperly treat a patient, and thats just so you can properly stabilize someone and transport them to a doctor. Essentially what your EMT/Medic is already doing. Above that you need years of training to know how to fix people. My mom who is trained enough to act as an assistant for heart surgery/emergency room work/paramedic thinks the only equipment you need to readily have at the lower levels or response are large bandages, duct tape, and one way valve masks for CPR. Anything more than that gets way to situational and you start needing training to use all of it.
Now in a humanitarian situation your troops will be arriving after the most of those skills will be useful. Sure let the medics help in search and rescue, but the grunts will be far more useful moving supplies and keeping order. If they are caught in the situation as it starts you have bigger things to worry about but they still aren't going to be adding much to first aid by having those skills. A good medic can "train" someone to help them while they are helping, the important bit is knowing when to use a skill and that takes training that is wasted on a grunt.
Feel free to have basic first aid for police/fire fighters, but it should only be what is necessary in the first 5 minutes of care. Which is CPR, stopping bleeding and knowing when not to move someone. Firefighters should get trained on how to move someone, but hey they spend time actually training in emergency response not fighting a war.
The Emerald Dawn wrote:I award you no points, and have sent people to make sure your parents refrain from further breeding.
Lyttenburgh wrote:all this is a damning enough evidence to proove you of being an edgy butthurt 'murican teenager with the sole agenda of prooving to the uncaring bitch Web, that "You Have A Point!"
Lyttenburgh wrote:Either that, or, you were gang-raped by commi-nazi russian Spetznaz kill team, who then painted all walls in your house in hammer and sickles, and then viped their asses with the stars and stripes banner in your yard. That's the only logical explanation.
by Spreewerke » Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:46 am
Triplebaconation wrote:There's no need for dumb subsonic or rubber bullets. Or dumber taser bullets.
A 9mm hole in an airliner isn't going to kill everyone on board or even be particularly noticeable - that's just Hollywood nonsense.
US Air Marshals carry pistols loaded with comfortably supersonic hollowpoints. Lethality is more important than not poking a hole in a plane.
Machine guns...
by Sevvania » Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:47 am
by Aethal » Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:52 am
by Aethal » Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:15 am
by Sevvania » Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:19 am
by Aethal » Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:27 am
by Spirit of Hope » Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:31 am
DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:Spirit of Hope wrote:
Most of a grunts training isn't about killing, its about forming him into a soldier who acts as part of a unit. That takes time to do right, after that you start moving into more advanced skills that they will actually use for killing. So you are just adding in training that they won't use.
Medics might carry a bag valve mask, that makes sense, but a back board, cervical collars, or oxygen tanks are right out of the question. Its stupid to have those in anything other than a dedicated ambulance. They just don't get used that much, cost money and take up space. I'm a life guard and most pools stop have one backboard for hundreds of people, because you will never need more than that. Anything more complicated isn't worth having around because you need a lot more dedicated training to make sure you use it right and in the right situations and you won't need it in the time it takes the properly trained people to arrive.
On the battlefield most injuries aren't going to come anywhere close to needing that equipment, and training, from your grunts. Medics should be at the very least around in sufficient numbers at the company level, if not the platoon level. Which means a fully trained and equipped medic should be around to actually do the important bits of first aid in a couple of minutes. Which means your grunt needs to be able to extend his "patients" life for only a short amount of time. For this he needs to know how to deal with large bleeding injuries, CPR and when he can't do anything. Thats a couple of hours with maybe a day of practical training, if you want to you can add the minor stuff in with the major stuff I just listed, not useful in a combat situation sure but useful for people to know in general. But that is at most 2 days of training and practical hands on training.
If you want to go above that level you start looking at weeks/months to properly train someone so they won't misdiagnose or improperly treat a patient, and thats just so you can properly stabilize someone and transport them to a doctor. Essentially what your EMT/Medic is already doing. Above that you need years of training to know how to fix people. My mom who is trained enough to act as an assistant for heart surgery/emergency room work/paramedic thinks the only equipment you need to readily have at the lower levels or response are large bandages, duct tape, and one way valve masks for CPR. Anything more than that gets way to situational and you start needing training to use all of it.
Now in a humanitarian situation your troops will be arriving after the most of those skills will be useful. Sure let the medics help in search and rescue, but the grunts will be far more useful moving supplies and keeping order. If they are caught in the situation as it starts you have bigger things to worry about but they still aren't going to be adding much to first aid by having those skills. A good medic can "train" someone to help them while they are helping, the important bit is knowing when to use a skill and that takes training that is wasted on a grunt.
Feel free to have basic first aid for police/fire fighters, but it should only be what is necessary in the first 5 minutes of care. Which is CPR, stopping bleeding and knowing when not to move someone. Firefighters should get trained on how to move someone, but hey they spend time actually training in emergency response not fighting a war.
Goddammit, you're making a really good argument I appreciate taking the time.
But really, around here I've seen even the position of (1 single) platoon medic questioned.
I guess just first aid will do.
Anyways, wanna help me sort out some stuff with my medics? I decided that I'm going to have emergency medicine physicians (or practitioners.. what's the difference again? ) like some European states do (any info on them would be greatly appreciated as I don't really speak any European language apart from, well, English [my german is shit] so researching isn't as handy) . But really, they'll mostly be supervisors / medical directors, I think. Probably the highest educated person you'll usually find in an actual ambulance will have a 2 year associate's degree or something. So I have to choose between:JEMCP (Junior Emergency Medicine Practitioner/Physician) - 2 year academic (associate's degree)
and
EMCP (Emergency Medicine Practitioner/Physician) - 4 year academic (bachelor's degree)
SEMCP (Senior Emergency Medicine Practitioner/Physician) - master's degree
EMD (Emergency Medicine Doctor) - doctoral degreeAPM (Advanced Paramedic) - associate's degree
JEMCP (Junior Emergency Medicine Practitioner/Physician) - bachelor's degree
EMCP (Emergency Medicine Practitioner/Physician) - master's degree
SEMCP (Senior Emergency Medicine Practitioner/Physician) - doc degree
Imperializt Russia wrote:Support biblical marriage! One SoH and as many wives and sex slaves as he can afford!
by DnalweN acilbupeR » Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:56 am
Spirit of Hope wrote:DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:
Goddammit, you're making a really good argument I appreciate taking the time.
But really, around here I've seen even the position of (1 single) platoon medic questioned.
I guess just first aid will do.
Anyways, wanna help me sort out some stuff with my medics? I decided that I'm going to have emergency medicine physicians (or practitioners.. what's the difference again? ) like some European states do (any info on them would be greatly appreciated as I don't really speak any European language apart from, well, English [my german is shit] so researching isn't as handy) . But really, they'll mostly be supervisors / medical directors, I think. Probably the highest educated person you'll usually find in an actual ambulance will have a 2 year associate's degree or something. So I have to choose between:JEMCP (Junior Emergency Medicine Practitioner/Physician) - 2 year academic (associate's degree)
and
EMCP (Emergency Medicine Practitioner/Physician) - 4 year academic (bachelor's degree)
SEMCP (Senior Emergency Medicine Practitioner/Physician) - master's degree
EMD (Emergency Medicine Doctor) - doctoral degreeAPM (Advanced Paramedic) - associate's degree
JEMCP (Junior Emergency Medicine Practitioner/Physician) - bachelor's degree
EMCP (Emergency Medicine Practitioner/Physician) - master's degree
SEMCP (Senior Emergency Medicine Practitioner/Physician) - doc degree
I was bored at lunch, so it wasn't that much work. I have some experience with first aid and emergency responder stuff, so I know enough to point people in the right direction. I feel like 1 medic per platoon is good, since if you figure 10% casualties per engagement that means he is dealing with 3-5 wounded/dead, and if it goes more than that you probably are in more trouble than extra medics will fix.
As to EMTs/Paramedics I have limited experience but here is what I know.
In the US there tends to be two groups. The first gets a couple weeks of dedicated training, they tend to be part time/volunteer and file they can generally handle emergency situations they are more often used for transport of non critical cases. I've often heard its a good gig for college students looking to go into medicine to give you an idea of there competency.
The second group gets more training (I've heard around 1 month or a little more) and they tend to be the emergency response people. Often attached to the fire department, in some smaller towns cities if the EMTs are sent they also send a fire truck. Almost universally if a fire truck goes somewhere an ambulance isn't far behind. Also they tend to have all kinds of opportunity to increase there pay, by getting more qualifications for various random pieces of medical equipment. Earlier I mentioned my mom, she has like a dozen qualifications that are technically not necessary for her job but really useful to know, and thus they pay a little extra for her to have them.
Above that you start getting nurses which is between a 2-4 year program depending on the school and level of depth. They tend to be generalized and get more specific training at there job into the specifics. There are so many different types of nurses its scary, plus there is generally a nurse shortage because it doesn't pay the best and many go into it for only a couple of years before finding a better job and or marrying and dropping the job.
Above that is doctors who take years of training depending on the level they are going for. At hospitals they make the plans and the nurses carry them out, except for surgery where they do the work and the nurse hand them tools.
The Emerald Dawn wrote:I award you no points, and have sent people to make sure your parents refrain from further breeding.
Lyttenburgh wrote:all this is a damning enough evidence to proove you of being an edgy butthurt 'murican teenager with the sole agenda of prooving to the uncaring bitch Web, that "You Have A Point!"
Lyttenburgh wrote:Either that, or, you were gang-raped by commi-nazi russian Spetznaz kill team, who then painted all walls in your house in hammer and sickles, and then viped their asses with the stars and stripes banner in your yard. That's the only logical explanation.
by United states of brazilian nations » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:01 am
Novicius Imperium Romanum wrote:Boy oh boy, I haven't posted here in a while.
on to srs bsns: I need some suggestions for how I should organize this nation's military force and some other suggestions for a battle rifle/notFAL design. :3
Black Hand wrote:New plan is to just make thousands of disposable firearms and dump them out of cargo planes with tiny drag chutes attached.
Kouralia wrote:AKA FiSH and CHiPS(Fighting in Someone's House and Causing Havoc in Public Spaces):p
Fordorsia wrote:Breaking news: The estimated leading cause of death is dying.
Imperializt Russia wrote:Well what it is, is an 18.5mm piece of hollow metal that, through witchcraft and evil, becomes significantly larger than 18.5mm.
Puzikas wrote:fuck you for drawing a good looking bulpup AK.
Puzikas wrote:USBN has a sensor that triggers after anything vaguely Brazilian is mentioned.
by Aqizithiuda » Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:18 pm
Nationstatelandsville wrote:I liked the prostitute - never quote me on that.
Puzikas wrote:This is beyond condom on toes. This is full on Bra-on-balls.
Puzikas wrote:Im not cheep-You can quote me on that.
Hellraiser-Army wrote:and clearly I am surrounded by idiots who never looked at a blueprint before...
by Arkandros » Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:24 pm
Aethal wrote:Sevvania wrote:What kind of performance are you going to get out of low powder capacity and a stack of bullets that are of similar dimensions to conical Smarties candies?
No-one ever said you couldn't devise your own payload in a proprietary casing of your own design.
I really don't want to appear as "that jackass who keeps rambling on about random things", but come now folks, a bit of cleverness, ingenuity, design fiddling and handwavery! Somebody, someone, just bloody-well make something new and awesome.
by Spreewerke » Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:26 pm
Arkandros wrote:Aethal wrote:
No-one ever said you couldn't devise your own payload in a proprietary casing of your own design.
I really don't want to appear as "that jackass who keeps rambling on about random things", but come now folks, a bit of cleverness, ingenuity, design fiddling and handwavery! Somebody, someone, just bloody-well make something new and awesome.
I independently thought up the Black Talon round a few years ago, without knowing it already existed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Talon
The idea was to have long bars of a hard metal (in a radially symmetrical pattern) contained within a copper hollowpoint rifle round. Upon impact and mushrooming, the long bars would be angled away from the center of the round, turning into a metal star and tearing through flesh, causing much more damage than a traditional round. Too bad Winchester beat me to it.
by Arkandros » Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:37 pm
Spreewerke wrote:Arkandros wrote:
I independently thought up the Black Talon round a few years ago, without knowing it already existed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Talon
The idea was to have long bars of a hard metal (in a radially symmetrical pattern) contained within a copper hollowpoint rifle round. Upon impact and mushrooming, the long bars would be angled away from the center of the round, turning into a metal star and tearing through flesh, causing much more damage than a traditional round. Too bad Winchester beat me to it.
That is how basically every hollow point works. The BT just happened to be one of the better HP designs. It goes by the SXT now and is different in appearance by color only ("Same eXact Thing").
by Black Hand » Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:05 pm
Arkandros wrote:Spreewerke wrote:
That is how basically every hollow point works. The BT just happened to be one of the better HP designs. It goes by the SXT now and is different in appearance by color only ("Same eXact Thing").
Yeah, so I gathered from the wiki. The only real difference I was thinking was the bars would provide the additional wounding power, rather than the flattening of the round like a traditional hollowpoint. It's a moot point anyway.
Puzikas wrote:You clearly don't know about the baby bald eagle built into each one.
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Why is there a "joke option" included in the poll when "yes" is already there?
Fordorsia wrote:Sight rib? Like a barbecue?
Fordorsia wrote:Why sell the restored weapons when you can keep them in a military-themed sex dungeon?
San-Silvacian wrote:Nothing says I love you like a fine Belgian firearm.
Bezombia wrote: "glorious discharge"
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