[NSGS] Democratic Left [Official HQ]

[Arkolon]

A much better "anarchy" would be closer to medieval Iceland, which had competing executives and you were able to pick and choose which chief to follow, or become one yourself if you thought they were all asses. Also you could bring them to court.

Mises.org article on Somalia is basically what Ark said - it's not actually viewed as anarchy - but even though it's not, the decentralized nature of Somalia actually made conditions improve among the populace.

I'm just doing what the right do when they insist that North Korea is Communist, somehow.

Is what these people do good? Defensible? Proper? Correct?

So why do you do it?

[The Liberated Territories]

A much better "anarchy" would be closer to medieval Iceland, which had competing executives and you were able to pick and choose which chief to follow, or become one yourself if you thought they were all asses. Also you could bring them to court.

Mises.org article on Somalia is basically what Ark said - it's not actually viewed as anarchy - but even though it's not, the decentralized nature of Somalia actually made conditions improve among the populace.

Don't try and turn this into a serious debate, I'm just doing what the right do when they insist that North Korea is Communist, somehow.

Though it doesn't help that there is a multitude of An-Caps that generally do call Somalia Anarcho-Capitalist, just like how some Juchests call NK Communist.

I'm always up for a serious debate, but I won't spam your HQ unless you want me to stay.

And some socialist Democrats call Scandinavia socialist, despite being one of the most capitalistic countries in Europe.

[Dejanic]

Ignoring the fact ofc that Social Democratic parties dominate Latin American politics.

Aren't you in a National Bolshevik/Strasserist party anyway? This of course occurring after you had a breakdown and your own 1 man party imploded.

Please do NOT bring that up again.

K, then stop going on about so called "realism", especially when we both know it's just a very lame attempt to try and defraud this party OOCly (which is unfair, since none of us in the DemLeft have tried to harm the Civ Dems, it's Bel that's been self harming his own party).

Do that, and I won't mention your recent "history".

[Zunkwentania]

Don't try and turn this into a serious debate, I'm just doing what the right do when they insist that North Korea is Communist, somehow.

Though it doesn't help that there is a multitude of An-Caps that generally do call Somalia Anarcho-Capitalist, just like how some Juchests call NK Communist.

I'm always up for a serious debate, but I won't spam your HQ unless you want me to stay.

And some socialist democrats call Scandinavia socialist, despite being one of the most capitalistic countries in Europe.

Scandinavia united? I guess I didn't hear the news yet

[Arkolon]

Source on any ancaps suggesting Somalia is an argument for anarcho-capitalism? Not the telecoms boom, or any market booms, but the actual handling of society and civility. Anarchism is a much bigger philosophy and ideology than just statelessness. Somalia is just statelessness, not anarchism. Anarchism is a serious, old cultural and political movement.

I also hoped you were above appeals to authority, as well as confusing mises.org as an anarchocapitalistic site, or even suggesting that the daily blog you linked me to, which states that it has nothing to do with the Mises Institute, has anything to do with the Mises Institue.

LOL, this is what Social-Anarchists have been saying to An-Caps ever since the god forsaken ideology was formulated, just sayin.

Which is why you have subsets of anarchism, making propertarian market anarchism, developed by Rothbard but founded, really, by Spooner (who lived in the same time period as the foundation of modern anarchism), an acceptable and correct subset of anarchism.

[The Liberated Territories]

I'm always up for a serious debate, but I won't spam your HQ unless you want me to stay.

And some socialist democrats call Scandinavia socialist, despite being one of the most capitalistic countries in Europe.

Scandinavia united? I guess I didn't hear the news yet

Yes, under the banner of the USRS (United Socialist Republics of Scandinavia).

[Dejanic]

Don't try and turn this into a serious debate, I'm just doing what the right do when they insist that North Korea is Communist, somehow.

Though it doesn't help that there is a multitude of An-Caps that generally do call Somalia Anarcho-Capitalist, just like how some Juchests call NK Communist.

I'm always up for a serious debate, but I won't spam your HQ unless you want me to stay.

And some socialist Democrats call Scandinavia socialist, despite being one of the most capitalistic countries in Europe.

Only ignorant American Libruls who think that taxes/healthcare=Socialism call Scandinavia Socialist.

I think you're probably referring to Sweden when you say Scandinavia, and yes I'd agree Sweden is hugely Capitalistic largely due to the massive privatisation/de-regulation committed by the moderates. Denmark still has a solid mixed economy though and I'd consider it the best example of Social Democracy.

But Social Democracy isn't about ending Capitalism, it's about creating a form of Capitalism that works for the masses.

[The Liberated Territories]

I'm always up for a serious debate, but I won't spam your HQ unless you want me to stay.

And some socialist Democrats call Scandinavia socialist, despite being one of the most capitalistic countries in Europe.

Only ignorant American Libruls who think that taxes/healthcare=Socialism call Scandinavia Socialist.

I think you're probably referring to Sweden when you say Scandinavia, and yes I'd agree Sweden is hugely Capitalistic largely due to the massive privatisation/de-regulation committed by the moderates. Denmark still has a solid mixed economy though and I'd consider it the best example of Social Democracy.

But Social Democracy isn't about ending Capitalism, it's about creating a form of Capitalism that works for the masses.

Sweden, Denmark, Norway. all far left in the eyes of those who accept the propaganda. Those countries (especially Norway) are statist as hell, but not too bad economically. I like Sweden.

[Dejanic]

Only ignorant American Libruls who think that taxes/healthcare=Socialism call Scandinavia Socialist.

I think you're probably referring to Sweden when you say Scandinavia, and yes I'd agree Sweden is hugely Capitalistic largely due to the massive privatisation/de-regulation committed by the moderates. Denmark still has a solid mixed economy though and I'd consider it the best example of Social Democracy.

But Social Democracy isn't about ending Capitalism, it's about creating a form of Capitalism that works for the masses.

Sweden, Denmark, Norway. all far left in the eyes of those who accept the propaganda. Those countries (especially Norway) are statist as hell, but not too bad economically. I like Sweden.

Though some people look past the propaganda and make there own, I've seen some on the right say that the way Scandinavia deals with wages is "right wing" as there is no government mandated minimum wage system, but of course such people are forgetting the fact that in Scandinavia publically supported unions help set wages within a workplace through collective bargaining, which in my opinion is a better (and more left wing) system than government set minimum wage laws.

But regardless, it's nice to see a Libertarian recognising that there are good points within Social Democracy. And I must say that equally I respect the nation of Somalia. (That was a joke, please don't shoot me Ark).

[Atlanticatia]

I think my favorite Scandinavian country is Denmark. Highest taxes in the world. <3

[Arkolon]

I think my favorite Scandinavian country is Denmark. Highest taxes in the world. <3

Tenth-largest economic freedom index, too.

[Dejanic]

I think my favorite Scandinavian country is Denmark. Highest taxes in the world. <3

Tenth-largest economic freedom index, too.

Aye, the beauty of Social Democracy. Economic equality combined with a relatively free market.

[Zunkwentania]

I think my favorite Scandinavian country is Denmark. Highest taxes in the world. <3

Same here. Not too much neoliberalization like Sweden, and much cleaner energy than Norway

[Arkolon]

Tenth-largest economic freedom index, too.

Aye, the beauty of Social Democracy. Economic equality combined with a relatively free market.

Relatively? Very free market. If Denmark has the highest tax burden in the world, and the Heritage Foundation ranks it in the worldwide Top 10, that says a lot about the Danish liberal economy.

[Dejanic]

Aye, the beauty of Social Democracy. Economic equality combined with a relatively free market.

Relatively? Very free market. If Denmark has the highest tax burden in the world, and the Heritage Foundation ranks it in the worldwide Top 10, that says a lot about the Danish liberal economy.

Aye, it's very good isn't it?

The Danish model is probably my ideal economic model.

[Arkolon]

Relatively? Very free market. If Denmark has the highest tax burden in the world, and the Heritage Foundation ranks it in the worldwide Top 10, that says a lot about the Danish liberal economy.

Aye, it's very good isn't it?

The Danish model is probably my ideal economic model.

The first step to the Danish model is getting rid of institutionalised power to either corporate groups or trade unions, completely deregulating 200 years of labour reforms in the rigid markets of Western Europe, and initiating a large-scale cultural revolution. Needless to say that the Danish model is not feasible anywhere else but in Denmark, although labour market deregulation is always a very good place to start.

Consider this: in Denmark, an employer could fire you for any reason at all, at any time, for anything. How many labour markets can say that about themselves?

[Dejanic]

Aye, it's very good isn't it?

The Danish model is probably my ideal economic model.

The first step to the Danish model is getting rid of institutionalised power to either corporate groups or trade unions, completely deregulating 200 years of labour reforms in the rigid markets of Western Europe, and initiating a large-scale cultural revolution. Needless to say that the Danish model is not feasible anywhere else but in Denmark, although labour market deregulation is always a very good place to start.

Consider this: in Denmark, an employer could fire you for any reason at all, at any time, for anything. How many labour markets can say that about themselves?

Yeah there's some weird cultural norms in the "Danish model", but generally the economic system they have going appeals to me, though it certainly isn't perfect, it's just the least bad.

[Arkolon]

The first step to the Danish model is getting rid of institutionalised power to either corporate groups or trade unions, completely deregulating 200 years of labour reforms in the rigid markets of Western Europe, and initiating a large-scale cultural revolution. Needless to say that the Danish model is not feasible anywhere else but in Denmark, although labour market deregulation is always a very good place to start.

Consider this: in Denmark, an employer could fire you for any reason at all, at any time, for anything. How many labour markets can say that about themselves?

Yeah there's some weird cultural norms in the "Danish model", but generally the economic system they have going appeals to me, though it certainly isn't perfect, it's just the least bad.

From what I can gather, until the recent Jobs Act in Italy, it was impossible for an employer to fire an employee without a plan social or the company going bust. This caused base unemployment to increase, as employers were extremely hesitant when taking people on board. Now the country is in gridlock because the workers have the institutionalised power to paralyse a country for the Jobs Act.

I find it strange you bolded the last bit. It's the most attractive and sensical part of the Danish model. It's what makes the Danish model remotely successful: flexicurity.

[Dejanic]

Yeah there's some weird cultural norms in the "Danish model", but generally the economic system they have going appeals to me, though it certainly isn't perfect, it's just the least bad.

From what I can gather, until the recent Jobs Act in Italy, it was impossible for an employer to fire an employee without a plan social or the company going bust. This caused base unemployment to increase, as employers were extremely hesitant when taking people on board. Now the country is in gridlock because the workers have the institutionalised power to paralyse a country for the Jobs Act.

I find it strange you bolded the last bit. It's the most attractive and sensical part of the Danish model. It's what makes the Danish model remotely successful: flexicurity.

I said the policy was weird, I didn't say it was bad.

The policy works well in Denmark though as Denmark has debatably the best welfare system in the world, so being sacked from your job won't put you in the streets like it may in other European countries. Obviously I don't support Italy's old system.

[Fortschritte]

From what I can gather, until the recent Jobs Act in Italy, it was impossible for an employer to fire an employee without a plan social or the company going bust. This caused base unemployment to increase, as employers were extremely hesitant when taking people on board. Now the country is in gridlock because the workers have the institutionalised power to paralyse a country for the Jobs Act.

I find it strange you bolded the last bit. It's the most attractive and sensical part of the Danish model. It's what makes the Danish model remotely successful: flexicurity.

I said the policy was weird, I didn't say it was bad.

The policy works well in Denmark though as Denmark has debatably the best welfare system in the world, so being sacked from your job won't put you in the streets like it may in other European countries. Obviously I don't support Italy's old system.

What do you mean by "Italy's old system?"

[Atlanticatia]

I like the Nordic model because it takes the best parts of capitalism while cleaning up the not-so-good parts, and provides full employment, a fair balance between labor and capital etc

[Dejanic]

I said the policy was weird, I didn't say it was bad.

The policy works well in Denmark though as Denmark has debatably the best welfare system in the world, so being sacked from your job won't put you in the streets like it may in other European countries. Obviously I don't support Italy's old system.

What do you mean by "Italy's old system?"

Re-read Arkolons post. I was referring to the system they had before their recent Jobs Act.

[Dejanic]

I like the Nordic model because it takes the best parts of capitalism while cleaning up the not-so-good parts, and provides full employment, a fair balance between labor and capital etc

Aye. If anything Social Democracy is the true centre of politics, since it strikes the balance between Socialism and unregulated vanilla Capitalism.

[Fortschritte]

What do you mean by "Italy's old system?"

Re-read Arkolons post. I was referring to the system they had before their recent Jobs Act.

Oh, alright. I read about the Jobs Act earlier today on BBC News, and I'm fine with it. I quite like Matteo Renzi, he seems like a moderate, pragmatic leader who can lead Italy out of it's economic malaise. But, perhaps I'm being overly optimistic.

[Arkolon]

I like the Nordic model because it takes the best parts of capitalism while cleaning up the not-so-good parts, and provides full employment, a fair balance between labor and capital etc

Full employment isn't the top priority, nor should it be.