NSG Senate General Discussion Thread (Former Lobby)

[The Nihilistic view]

I think it should be renamed NS Senate. So I agree with NB.

Shows it's inclusive for all, it's not about shedding the senate's roots but rather opening up. I do think having General in the name could have put some people that don't like general off. We want to encourage everyone to join so linking it to any particular area of NS does not to me help that. I'm not that bothered about people from General joining, think what the senate was like to start? But over time we learned and it became a nice community in general (Pardon the pun). Anybody that joins and sticks around will go through this same learning process and become a better player. The only thing I can't abide is GM wankery.

[Maklohi Vai]

Tentatively saying I'd be interested in getting back involved in this if it rebooted. Studying A Level Politics has made me want to start running a country again

Licen! Glad to see you back here.

Also, a general announcement: the new thread should be up within a week; it's coming along nicely. I think we're going to opt for the OP to have less content than we originally thought, so it should be easier to get done soon. I'll keep you posted!

EDIT: One of the first things we could vote on is the name, so keep debating it!

[The New World Oceania]

Tentatively saying I'd be interested in getting back involved in this if it rebooted. Studying A Level Politics has made me want to start running a country again

EDIT: One of the first things we could vote on is the name, so keep debating it!

Shouldn't we consider what type of forum it will be before we opt for a name?

[Maklohi Vai]

EDIT: One of the first things we could vote on is the name, so keep debating it!

Shouldn't we consider what type of forum it will be before we opt for a name?

One of the first

Yes.

[Ainin]

Zombie Emergency Command Center *nods*

[The Liberated Territories]

Zombie Emergency Command Center *nods*

Too bad we didn't reboot before the zombies, or else we could of roleplayed out a zombie invasion of the nation.

Non canon, of course.

[The Liberated Territories]

One thing I wish to bring up is a rotation of admins every so often, perhaps once every three to six months. One of the major problems is that people in Baltonia did not agree with the admins decisions, which caused people to leave.

Perhaps a 75% vote to replace an admin if one is perceived to be unpopular? Ditto, that's something to think about.

[The Nihilistic view]

One thing I wish to bring up is a rotation of admins every so often, perhaps once every three to six months. One of the major problems is that people in Baltonia did not agree with the admins decisions, which caused people to leave.

Perhaps a 75% vote to replace an admin if one is perceived to be unpopular? Ditto, that's something to think about.

The problem I had was not with the admins, who they were. It was the policy of greater admin control and the taking of decisions on issues that we as a group had not given them that power as it were coupled with the un-elected nature of the job. It was a sort of self appointment of power.

Actually I think that is a very important thing for any reboot. We should decide what sort of things an admin can do. Personally for me their role and what they did in Aurentina was perfect. Baltonia was too much.

If we have elected admins there is an argument for more power but if they stay un-elected and appointed by themselves when a new one is needed then they should have minimal power.

[Maklohi Vai]

One thing I wish to bring up is a rotation of admins every so often, perhaps once every three to six months. One of the major problems is that people in Baltonia did not agree with the admins decisions, which caused people to leave.

Perhaps a 75% vote to replace an admin if one is perceived to be unpopular? Ditto, that's something to think about.

The problem I had was not with the admins, who they were. It was the policy of greater admin control and the taking of decisions on issues that we as a group had not given then that power as it were. It was a sort of self appointment of power.

Actually I think that is a very important thing for any reboot. We should decide what sort of things an admin can do. Personally for me their role and what they did in Aurentina was perfect. Baltonia was too much.

The issue with administering Baltonia was down to the enforcement of realism. We first thought we wanted enforced realism in the RP, and so the admins acted accordingly, but it became apparent that trying to do that just was not a good idea, and so there was backlash against the admins. I don't think it will be an issue again, as it's fairly simple what we need to do to combat it: don't restrict the RP based on realism except in cases of godmod.

[The Liberated Territories]

The problem I had was not with the admins, who they were. It was the policy of greater admin control and the taking of decisions on issues that we as a group had not given then that power as it were. It was a sort of self appointment of power.

Actually I think that is a very important thing for any reboot. We should decide what sort of things an admin can do. Personally for me their role and what they did in Aurentina was perfect. Baltonia was too much.

The issue with administering Baltonia was down to the enforcement of realism. We first thought we wanted enforced realism in the RP, and so the admins acted accordingly, but it became apparent that trying to do that just was not a good idea, and so there was backlash against the admins. I don't think it will be an issue again, as it's fairly simple what we need to do to combat it: don't restrict the RP based on realism except in cases of godmod.

It depends what "realism" entails. Obviously we aren't going to allow people to roleplay an alien invasion. Of course, I am guilty of using unrealistic elements such as superheroes (anyone remember Thor, Deadpool, and the gang?) But that was fighting godmod with godmod.

I believe we should plan ahead with commonly accepted canon after the nation name, location, and history is decided, and shoot the ignore canon on anything that is way out of line with it. Roleplaying an Islamic fundamentalist group would be -okay- (if we choose Vestmark, I definitely have that in store for us.) Roleplaying a business tycoon that controls have the profits of the nation isn't

[The Nihilistic view]

The problem I had was not with the admins, who they were. It was the policy of greater admin control and the taking of decisions on issues that we as a group had not given then that power as it were. It was a sort of self appointment of power.

Actually I think that is a very important thing for any reboot. We should decide what sort of things an admin can do. Personally for me their role and what they did in Aurentina was perfect. Baltonia was too much.

The issue with administering Baltonia was down to the enforcement of realism. We first thought we wanted enforced realism in the RP, and so the admins acted accordingly, but it became apparent that trying to do that just was not a good idea, and so there was backlash against the admins. I don't think it will be an issue again, as it's fairly simple what we need to do to combat it: don't restrict the RP based on realism except in cases of godmod.

Which comes down to the nub of the issue. There was never any vote on the subject, it was something some wanted and some did not and you just took the decision to follow it. Rather like with several other things which after getting a vote on it the player base voted against the original admin decision. That's what I mean, either we elect the admins for say 3-6 month terms with the ability of a recall if they go bat shit and they have the power to make executive decisions. Or if they stay un-elected then they only enforce stuff IC that they have been given the power to or with issues of GMing, OOC abuse and things like that. And there are more votes as a player base when the opinion of the players is not overwhelming for one thing.

[The Nihilistic view]

The issue with administering Baltonia was down to the enforcement of realism. We first thought we wanted enforced realism in the RP, and so the admins acted accordingly, but it became apparent that trying to do that just was not a good idea, and so there was backlash against the admins. I don't think it will be an issue again, as it's fairly simple what we need to do to combat it: don't restrict the RP based on realism except in cases of godmod.

It depends what "realism" entails. Obviously we aren't going to allow people to roleplay an alien invasion. Of course, I am guilty of using unrealistic elements such as superheroes (anyone remember Thor, Deadpool, and the gang?) But that was fighting godmod with godmod.

I believe we should plan ahead with commonly accepted canon after the nation name, location, and history is decided, and shoot the ignore canon on anything that is way out of line with it. Roleplaying an Islamic fundamentalist group would be -okay- (if we choose Vestmark, I definitely have that in store for us.) Roleplaying a business tycoon that controls have the profits of the nation isn't

But my $250bn !!!

And my Helicopter landing in police stations.!!

And my nuclear proof coastal mansion/fortress.!!

[Intermountain States]

The issue with administering Baltonia was down to the enforcement of realism. We first thought we wanted enforced realism in the RP, and so the admins acted accordingly, but it became apparent that trying to do that just was not a good idea, and so there was backlash against the admins. I don't think it will be an issue again, as it's fairly simple what we need to do to combat it: don't restrict the RP based on realism except in cases of godmod.

I think I'm partly to blame considering that I was a huge dick about realism (and I'm still probably be that way)

[The Liberated Territories]

It depends what "realism" entails. Obviously we aren't going to allow people to roleplay an alien invasion. Of course, I am guilty of using unrealistic elements such as superheroes (anyone remember Thor, Deadpool, and the gang?) But that was fighting godmod with godmod.

I believe we should plan ahead with commonly accepted canon after the nation name, location, and history is decided, and shoot the ignore canon on anything that is way out of line with it. Roleplaying an Islamic fundamentalist group would be -okay- (if we choose Vestmark, I definitely have that in store for us.) Roleplaying a business tycoon that controls have the profits of the nation isn't

But my $250bn !!!

And my Helicopter landing in police stations.!!

And my nuclear proof coastal mansion/fortress.!!

No pesos. Only foxes.

(Which reminds me to consider making a thread of Nationstates senate tropes and memes)

[The Liberated Territories]

The issue with administering Baltonia was down to the enforcement of realism. We first thought we wanted enforced realism in the RP, and so the admins acted accordingly, but it became apparent that trying to do that just was not a good idea, and so there was backlash against the admins. I don't think it will be an issue again, as it's fairly simple what we need to do to combat it: don't restrict the RP based on realism except in cases of godmod.

I think I'm partly to blame considering that I was a huge dick about realism (and I'm still probably be that way)

Nah. There was a general call for realism after the Mafia and Drago basically destroyed the limits and every time a large ass fight broke out. It's a fair reaction.

When picking out the nation, we should keep in mind that a more "Western" nation would probably have less random violence (however, as Ferguson proves it isn't a guarantee). I would be up for another Eastern European nation if it was better and more realistically developed than Baltonia was. On the other hand, I can respect some people who want "out" of Europe all together.

[The Nihilistic view]

But my $250bn !!!

And my Helicopter landing in police stations.!!

And my nuclear proof coastal mansion/fortress.!!

No pesos. Only foxes.

(Which reminds me to consider making a thread of Nationstates senate tropes and memes)

That is a good name for a lobby!

[New Zepuha]

No pesos. Only foxes.

(Which reminds me to consider making a thread of Nationstates senate tropes and memes)

That is a good name for a lobby!

No Mr. Dragomere, I expect you to resign.

Don't forget to refill your cyanide sprinklers.

[MellowCello]

So I went inactive for a year or so, but I thought it might be nice to start anew. Venaleria here.

[Sebastianbourg]

Will this be rebooted? I can help.

[Ainin]

So I went inactive for a year or so, but I thought it might be nice to start anew. Venaleria here.

Oh my god, you're back!

[Maklohi Vai]

So I went inactive for a year or so, but I thought it might be nice to start anew. Venaleria here.

Woah, nice to see you again!

The issue with administering Baltonia was down to the enforcement of realism. We first thought we wanted enforced realism in the RP, and so the admins acted accordingly, but it became apparent that trying to do that just was not a good idea, and so there was backlash against the admins. I don't think it will be an issue again, as it's fairly simple what we need to do to combat it: don't restrict the RP based on realism except in cases of godmod.

Which comes down to the nub of the issue. There was never any vote on the subject, it was something some wanted and some did not and you just took the decision to follow it. Rather like with several other things which after getting a vote on it the player base voted against the original admin decision. That's what I mean, either we elect the admins for say 3-6 month terms with the ability of a recall if they go bat shit and they have the power to make executive decisions. Or if they stay un-elected then they only enforce stuff IC that they have been given the power to or with issues of GMing, OOC abuse and things like that. And there are more votes as a player base when the opinion of the players is not overwhelming for one thing.

What other things, if I may ask? And with Baltonia, the reason we went ahead with enforcement is because we didn't hear a lot of protest from the other side before we started. I put out a call for people to bring up points, to state their view, but very few responded and none very forcefully against the measure. Of course once we got into it, it became clear there was more opposition, but it was not foreseeable when we started Baltonia.

As for the election and executive power vs. un-elected and designated power, I think it's important to note that Ainin and I are the only admins who've stayed in the position for more than 6 months (Wolfmanne might have approached it, actually). It's not an easy job, and most people don't want to be in it for too long. How about a counter-proposal of sorts: I nominate an admin and the senate votes on the nomination? Now, I'm not actually if that's what I want for the RP going forward, but I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on it.

[The Nihilistic view]

So I went inactive for a year or so, but I thought it might be nice to start anew. Venaleria here.

Woah, nice to see you again!

Which comes down to the nub of the issue. There was never any vote on the subject, it was something some wanted and some did not and you just took the decision to follow it. Rather like with several other things which after getting a vote on it the player base voted against the original admin decision. That's what I mean, either we elect the admins for say 3-6 month terms with the ability of a recall if they go bat shit and they have the power to make executive decisions. Or if they stay un-elected then they only enforce stuff IC that they have been given the power to or with issues of GMing, OOC abuse and things like that. And there are more votes as a player base when the opinion of the players is not overwhelming for one thing.

What other things, if I may ask? And with Baltonia, the reason we went ahead with enforcement is because we didn't hear a lot of protest from the other side before we started. I put out a call for people to bring up points, to state their view, but very few responded and none very forcefully against the measure. Of course once we got into it, it became clear there was more opposition, but it was not foreseeable when we started Baltonia.

As for the election and executive power vs. un-elected and designated power, I think it's important to note that Ainin and I are the only admins who've stayed in the position for more than 6 months (Wolfmanne might have approached it, actually). It's not an easy job, and most people don't want to be in it for too long. How about a counter-proposal of sorts: I nominate an admin and the senate votes on the nomination? Now, I'm not actually if that's what I want for the RP going forward, but I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on it.

For example the date for the start of Baltonia. I believe there was first a vote among admins that set up 1989 or around then as a start date. I among others pushed for a vote and the vote gave the 2014 start date.

My ideal choice would be a small amount of designated power that is granted expressly by the community. In that situation i'm fine with admins not being elected or your suggestion of the community voting on a nomination. If there is to be some kind of system I would prefer it to be a recall system. There is no vote on appointment but one can happen if people lose confidence in an admin. Say a petition with 10 seconds for the removal of an admin would instigate a vote and the admin needs the support of 2/3rds of the vote to stay an admin.

[New Bierstaat]

The issue with administering Baltonia was down to the enforcement of realism. We first thought we wanted enforced realism in the RP, and so the admins acted accordingly, but it became apparent that trying to do that just was not a good idea, and so there was backlash against the admins. I don't think it will be an issue again, as it's fairly simple what we need to do to combat it: don't restrict the RP based on realism except in cases of godmod.

I think I'm partly to blame considering that I was a huge dick about realism (and I'm still probably be that way)

As was I. But there's got to be a middle ground between shit blowing up very damn day and a completely scripted storyline.

I trust the admin team to find that balance and believe that the admin power structure we had in Aurentina was good. I think we should keep it like that (provided that it's still led by MV), but admins should generally try to solicit more feedback when it comes to making the big RP decisions.

[New Zepuha]

I think I'm partly to blame considering that I was a huge dick about realism (and I'm still probably be that way)

As was I. But there's got to be a middle ground between shit blowing up very damn day and a completely scripted storyline.

I trust the admin team to find that balance and believe that the admin power structure we had in Aurentina was good. I think we should keep it like that (provided that it's still led by MV), but admins should generally try to solicit more feedback when it comes to making the big RP decisions.

The middle ground would require us to be more involved on determining what is the furthest limit we can push things. I think the issue we had was that too many people wanted that blowing up stuff rather than the peaceful discourse of everyday life. It would have been nice for the police to have been called to something other than a mafia with a friggin private army tearing up some random pub.

There also needs to be an understanding between the Generalites and II players in the senate. We can have RP and the legislation exist at the same time, but limits have to be solidly decided.

[The Nihilistic view]

As was I. But there's got to be a middle ground between shit blowing up very damn day and a completely scripted storyline.

I trust the admin team to find that balance and believe that the admin power structure we had in Aurentina was good. I think we should keep it like that (provided that it's still led by MV), but admins should generally try to solicit more feedback when it comes to making the big RP decisions.

The middle ground would require us to be more involved on determining what is the furthest limit we can push things. I think the issue we had was that too many people wanted that blowing up stuff rather than the peaceful discourse of everyday life. It would have been nice for the police to have been called to something other than a mafia with a friggin private army tearing up some random pub.

There also needs to be an understanding between the Generalites and II players in the senate. We can have RP and the legislation exist at the same time, but limits have to be solidly decided.

It was not just the Mafia, there was also the fact that 95% of protests and gatherings ended up in riots/street fighting and on some occasions the military fighting.