NSG Senate Coffee Shop [NSG Senate]

[The Nihilistic view]

That is the duty. But it does not give the Minister any powers. The Minister can only accomplish that duty using legal methods. At the moment, the Minister has no available legal methods.

This if from the rep executive act;

"I. The executive power of the NSG state shall be vested in a President and a Council of Ministers"

And this

"II. The Council of Ministers shall consist of a Prime Minister, and Ministers of the various executive departments."

[Yanalia]

That is the duty. But it does not give the Minister any powers. The Minister can only accomplish that duty using legal methods. At the moment, the Minister has no available legal methods.

This if from the rep executive act;

"I. The executive power of the NSG state shall be vested in a President and a Council of Ministers"

That does not specify any powers. From that act, "A. Ministers shall hold executive powers according to their portfolio as established by law."

No law has established any powers for the Ministry of Interiors.

[Lemanrussland]

Show me where that Act gives the Minister control over the police or any other direct authority. It only specifies duties, but not abilities. And according to the Republican Executive Act, all abilities must be explicitly defined by law.

"The Ministry of Interiors, with the duty of policing the nation, ensuring national security, supervise local governments, elections and immigration."

Not a fan of such a broad, sort of vague interpretation of the duties of the executive. That needs to be cleaned up to be doubly clear, or we need a judicial ruling on it (obviously that is impossible at the moment, but will become possible in the future).

[The Nihilistic view]

This if from the rep executive act;

"I. The executive power of the NSG state shall be vested in a President and a Council of Ministers"

That does not specify any powers. From that act, "A. Ministers shall hold executive powers according to their portfolio as established by law."

No law has established any powers for the Ministry of Interiors.

That clause means they can do what they like as long as it is in accordance with the laws.

[Yanalia]

That does not specify any powers. From that act, "A. Ministers shall hold executive powers according to their portfolio as established by law."

No law has established any powers for the Ministry of Interiors.

That clause means they can do what they like as long as it is in accordance with the laws.

Would you like me to go into the argument where I, as the Minister of Energy, can nationalize the energy and infrastructure industries again?

[The Nihilistic view]

This if from the rep executive act;

"I. The executive power of the NSG state shall be vested in a President and a Council of Ministers"

That does not specify any powers. From that act, "A. Ministers shall hold executive powers according to their portfolio as established by law."

No law has established any powers for the Ministry of Interiors.

"Executive powers" has been established. I presume you don't need me to provide a definition for "executive power" ?

[The Nihilistic view]

That clause means they can do what they like as long as it is in accordance with the laws.

Would you like me to go into the argument where I, as the Minister of Energy, can nationalize the energy and infrastructure industries again?

You can. Its not an argument, its prof of me and Nepal being correct. You will be kicked out of office but if you want to do that then give it a go.

[Yanalia]

That does not specify any powers. From that act, "A. Ministers shall hold executive powers according to their portfolio as established by law."

No law has established any powers for the Ministry of Interiors.

"Executive powers" has been established. I presume you don't need me to provide a definition for "executive power" ?

Yes, I do actually. In fact, the act mandates that the law establish the definition of executive powers in the clause I cited.

Otherwise, would you like me to go into the argument where I, as the Minister of Energy, can nationalize the energy and infrastructure industries again?

[Divair]

Would you like me to go into the argument where I, as the Minister of Energy, can nationalize the energy and infrastructure industries again?

You can. Its not an argument, its prof of me and Nepal being correct. You will be kicked out of office but if you want to do that then give it a go.

By who?

[The Nihilistic view]

You can. Its not an argument, its prof of me and Nepal being correct. You will be kicked out of office but if you want to do that then give it a go.

By who?

The president and the vice president will remove him from his ministry. Not to mention a real attempt at a motion of no confidence if he did it.

[Wolfmanne]

"Executive powers" has been established. I presume you don't need me to provide a definition for "executive power" ?

Yes, I do actually. In fact, the act mandates that the law establish the definition of executive powers in the clause I cited.

Otherwise, would you like me to go into the argument where I, as the Minister of Energy, can nationalize the energy and infrastructure industries again?

Right and risk enraging everyone else in the Coalition , such as the moderate Lib Dems and Prog Cons?

[Divair]

The president and the vice president will remove him from his ministry. Not to mention a real attempt at a motion of no confidence if he did it.

Where have they stated this?

[Yanalia]

Would you like me to go into the argument where I, as the Minister of Energy, can nationalize the energy and infrastructure industries again?

You can. Its not an argument, its prof of me and Nepal being correct. You will be kicked out of office but if you want to do that then give it a go.

Then, the Minister of Interior can establish an absolute dictatorship in the interest of "national security"? After all, he can "police the nation" which allows very broad abuses and "supervise" elections, thereby destroying the democratic process.

[Lemanrussland]

This bickering is evidence for the need of a Supreme Court to interpret laws, to avoid having people saying "This act, which describes my broad responsibilities, gives me authority to do whatever is necessary to accomplish those duties.", and then going ahead with it. That argument is incredibly stupid, abusive, and dangerous.

[Yanalia]

This bickering is evidence for the need of a Supreme Court to interpret laws, to avoid having people saying "This act, which describes my broad responsibilities, gives me authority to do whatever is necessary to accomplish those duties.", and then going ahead with it. That argument is incredibly stupid, abusive, and dangerous.

This would be my point.

[The Nihilistic view]

The president and the vice president will remove him from his ministry. Not to mention a real attempt at a motion of no confidence if he did it.

Where have they stated this?

Wolfmanne just has above. The coalition would probably fall apart.

[Divair]

Wolfmanne just has above. The coalition would probably fall apart.

That's something different than having him removed.

[The Nihilistic view]

You can. Its not an argument, its prof of me and Nepal being correct. You will be kicked out of office but if you want to do that then give it a go.

Then, the Minister of Interior can establish an absolute dictatorship in the interest of "national security"? After all, he can "police the nation" which allows very broad abuses and "supervise" elections, thereby destroying the democratic process.

The royalist guard would have something to say about that, as would the other paramilitaries. Congratulations you just created a civil war!

[Yanalia]

Then, the Minister of Interior can establish an absolute dictatorship in the interest of "national security"? After all, he can "police the nation" which allows very broad abuses and "supervise" elections, thereby destroying the democratic process.

The royalist guard would have something to say about that, as would the other paramilitaries. Congratulations you just created a civil war!

Certainly, but would that be a legal action for the Minister to take?

[Wolfmanne]

Where have they stated this?

Wolfmanne just has above. The coalition would probably fall apart.

I didn't say I would kick him out. I don't have that power. I said I would oppose it and destabilise the Coalition, perhaps resulting in it falling apart.

[The Nihilistic view]

Wolfmanne just has above. The coalition would probably fall apart.

That's something different than having him removed.

It falls apart, can't rule. New elections with the halves of the coalition on different sides.

[Divair]

That's something different than having him removed.

It falls apart, can't rule. New elections with the halves of the coalition on different sides.

It'd be quite hilarious.

[Lemanrussland]

By the way, the honorable Minister of Energy is describing the situation as a hypothetical.

These two statements, "Ministers shall hold executive powers according to their portfolio as established by law." and "I can enact whatever policies I wish to accomplish my duties, as outlined in the Ministry Foundation Act", don't mix. That was obviously not the intention of the people who wrote the bills, but instead a twisted interpretation.

Again, we need a Supreme Court in order to make the law clear, instead of just having Ministers "deciding" how they want to interpret laws.

[Yanalia]

That's something different than having him removed.

It falls apart, can't rule. New elections with the halves of the coalition on different sides.

OK, sure, but couldn't the Coalition still rule as tyrants as long as we all agreed? Suppose a Minister was to take an action circumventing the democratic process, but one which all of the Cabinet agreed to?

[The Nihilistic view]

Wolfmanne just has above. The coalition would probably fall apart.

I didn't say I would kick him out. I don't have that power. I said I would oppose it and destabilise the Coalition, perhaps resulting in it falling apart.

That's what i mean, the coalition would maybe fall apart and then we have new elections.


OOC: It might be quite exciting if that happened!