NATION

PASSWORD

NSG Senate Coffee Shop [NSG Senate]

A resting-place for threads that might have otherwise been lost.

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
CTALNH
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9596
Founded: Jul 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby CTALNH » Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:03 am

Slazliyka wrote:
CTALNH wrote:Thats what we are arguing about.


I know, and I'm trying to make a point here. So, answer me. If somebody doesn't want to live anymore, and they're terminally ill and mentally sane, and of a proper age to be able to give informed consent, then why should we force them to live?

If you've no good answer to that you've no good argument against euthanasia.

You people are too individualist to get my point.
"This guy is a State socialist, which doesn't so much mean mass murder and totalitarianism as it means trying to have a strong state to lead the way out of poverty and towards a bright future. Strict state control of the economy is necessary to make the great leap forward into that brighter future, and all elements of society must be sure to contribute or else."
Economic Left/Right: -9.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.64
Lawful Neutral/Lawful Evil half and half.
Authoritarian Extreme Leftist because fuck pre-existing Ideologies.
"Epicus Doomicus Metallicus"
Radical Anti-Radical Feminist Feminist
S.W.I.F: Sex Worker Inclusionary Feminist.
T.I.F: Trans Inclusionary Feminist

User avatar
Slazliyka
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 117
Founded: Jun 07, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Slazliyka » Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:08 am

CTALNH wrote:
Slazliyka wrote:
I know, and I'm trying to make a point here. So, answer me. If somebody doesn't want to live anymore, and they're terminally ill and mentally sane, and of a proper age to be able to give informed consent, then why should we force them to live?

If you've no good answer to that you've no good argument against euthanasia.

You people are too individualist to get my point.


Saying we won't understand your point doesn't convince any of us.

Even looking at it from a collective viewpoint, somebody who's terminally ill is just a drain of medical resources that could go to non-terminal people

User avatar
CTALNH
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9596
Founded: Jul 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby CTALNH » Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:12 am

Slazliyka wrote:
CTALNH wrote:You people are too individualist to get my point.


Saying we won't understand your point doesn't convince any of us.

Even looking at it from a collective viewpoint, somebody who's terminally ill is just a drain of medical resources that could go to non-terminal people

Okay okay you win I will vote for...

I still don't like it.


So maximum wage?
"This guy is a State socialist, which doesn't so much mean mass murder and totalitarianism as it means trying to have a strong state to lead the way out of poverty and towards a bright future. Strict state control of the economy is necessary to make the great leap forward into that brighter future, and all elements of society must be sure to contribute or else."
Economic Left/Right: -9.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.64
Lawful Neutral/Lawful Evil half and half.
Authoritarian Extreme Leftist because fuck pre-existing Ideologies.
"Epicus Doomicus Metallicus"
Radical Anti-Radical Feminist Feminist
S.W.I.F: Sex Worker Inclusionary Feminist.
T.I.F: Trans Inclusionary Feminist

User avatar
Of the Free Socialist Territories
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8370
Founded: Feb 12, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Of the Free Socialist Territories » Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:13 am

CTALNH wrote:
Slazliyka wrote:
I know, and I'm trying to make a point here. So, answer me. If somebody doesn't want to live anymore, and they're terminally ill and mentally sane, and of a proper age to be able to give informed consent, then why should we force them to live?

If you've no good answer to that you've no good argument against euthanasia.

You people are too individualist to get my point.


Even thinking collectively, voluntary euthanasia makes sense.
Don't be deceived when our Revolution has finally been stamped out and they tell you things are better now even if there's no poverty to see, because the poverty's been hidden...even if you ever got more wages and could afford to buy more of these new and useless goods which these new industries foist on you, and even if it seems to you that "you never had so much" - that is only the slogan of those who have much more than you.

Marat, "Marat/Sade"

User avatar
CTALNH
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9596
Founded: Jul 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby CTALNH » Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:15 am

Of the Free Socialist Territories wrote:
CTALNH wrote:You people are too individualist to get my point.


Even thinking collectively, voluntary euthanasia makes sense.

Already said gonna vote for...

Maximum wage idea?
"This guy is a State socialist, which doesn't so much mean mass murder and totalitarianism as it means trying to have a strong state to lead the way out of poverty and towards a bright future. Strict state control of the economy is necessary to make the great leap forward into that brighter future, and all elements of society must be sure to contribute or else."
Economic Left/Right: -9.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.64
Lawful Neutral/Lawful Evil half and half.
Authoritarian Extreme Leftist because fuck pre-existing Ideologies.
"Epicus Doomicus Metallicus"
Radical Anti-Radical Feminist Feminist
S.W.I.F: Sex Worker Inclusionary Feminist.
T.I.F: Trans Inclusionary Feminist

User avatar
Great Nepal
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 28677
Founded: Jan 11, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Great Nepal » Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:59 am

Universal Credit
Urgency: High| Drafted by: Great Nepal| Co-sponsors:


Recognising that certain income is nessecery to survive, and this income must be guaranteed to every citizen while ensuring that work always pays and work is never disincentived. This, by power granted to this senate by the people, hereby enacts universal credit bill,
Section 1- Definition
When used in this act, following terms will have meaning as stated in this section and any other disputes as to meaning of terms shall be dealt with by Oxford dictionary (http://oxforddictionaries.com/))
Living income shall be defined as minimum income required for an indivudal to subsist.
Other income shall be defined as income an indivudal gets from any other source, except from universal credit.

Section 2 - Creation and Administration of Universal Credit System
a) Living wage commission shall be created, which shall be tasked with dividing the nation into "income zones", based on cost of living.
b) Living wage commission shall also be tasked with calculating living income for each income zone, which is to be updated 31,536,000 seconds.
c) Living wage commission shall also be tasked with creating one claim form required to claim universal credit, this form shall be called "Universal Credit Claim Application - F".
d) Living wage commission shall also be tasked with authorising universal credit payments.
e) Universal credit payments shall be calculated as "UCP = LI - II", where UCP refers to universal credit payment, LI refers to living income calculated as established in section 2b, II refers to income of indivudal. If the value calculated is lower than zero, no universal credit payments will be made nor will any deductions be made.
f) Claimant of universal credit payment shall be required to fill out the "Universal Credit Claim Application - F" before payments are begun and this form must be filled out every year, or when there is any change in circumstances, which ever is earlier.
g) Universal credit payment shall be paid into private bank account, which claimant will be required to have.
h) No further payments shall be granted by future bills, unless such benefit is for shall be pregnant women, carers, disabled and war veterans.
i) Claimant must be a permanent resident in Aurentina or its dependencies.

Section 3 - Declaration and Fraud
a) All claimants of universal credit payments shall be required to declare their total other income as part of the form mentioned in section 2. This must be done every three months, or when there is change in income, which ever is earlier.
b) Failure to comply with section 3a or section 2f, within fifteen days of the change shall be considered fraud of second degree and delict under judicial act punishable by prison sentence between two and seven years and fine equivalent or greater than 200% of the payments made to indivudal by living wage commission.
c) Providing living wage commission with false information or failure to comply with section 3a or section 2f within ninety days of the change shall be considered serious fraud of first degree and delict under judicial act punishable by prison sentence between five and ten years and fine equivalent or greater than 300% of the payments made to indivudal by living wage commission.
d) Once an indivudal has committed fraud under either section 3b or section 3c, they shall be disqualified from claiming universal credit payments or any other benefits provided by state, for life.

Section 4 - Requirement to work
Unless there is special exceptions, as granted by living wage commission, claimant shall be required to actively seek work to increase their income. Failure to do this shall be considered valid reason for withdrawal of universal credit payments.


Suggestions? Oh and yes, I stole "universal credit" from UK, any better name suggestions are also welcome.
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.


User avatar
Polvia
Envoy
 
Posts: 226
Founded: Dec 21, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Polvia » Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:12 am

Social Welfare Act: I will co-sponsor this bill.
Benefits for the Unemployed Act: I will co-sponsor this bill if it is changed from only covering citizens to something like "citizens, those with residence for tax purposes, any person granted indefinite leave to remain or any equivalent of these", of course remaining that it only applies to those who are within national borders.
Democratic Socialists of NS, come join the Red-Green Party in the NSG Senate!
Trotskyist
Cosmopolitan: 48%
Secular: 52%
Visionary: 42%
Anarchistic: 28%
Communistic: 75%
Pacifist: 64%
Anthropocentric: 21%
Senator and Founder of The Red-Greens
Ambassador from The Red-Greens to the Communist Party
Economic Left/Right: -9.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.74

User avatar
Wolfmanne
Senator
 
Posts: 4418
Founded: Mar 16, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Wolfmanne » Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:21 am

Great Nepal wrote:
Universal Credit
Urgency: High| Drafted by: Great Nepal| Co-sponsors:


Recognising that certain income is nessecery to survive, and this income must be guaranteed to every citizen while ensuring that work always pays and work is never disincentived. This, by power granted to this senate by the people, hereby enacts universal credit bill,
Section 1- Definition
When used in this act, following terms will have meaning as stated in this section and any other disputes as to meaning of terms shall be dealt with by Oxford dictionary (http://oxforddictionaries.com/))
Living income shall be defined as minimum income required for an indivudal to subsist.
Other income shall be defined as income an indivudal gets from any other source, except from universal credit.

Section 2 - Creation and Administration of Universal Credit System
a) Living wage commission shall be created, which shall be tasked with dividing the nation into "income zones", based on cost of living.
b) Living wage commission shall also be tasked with calculating living income for each income zone, which is to be updated 31,536,000 seconds.
c) Living wage commission shall also be tasked with creating one claim form required to claim universal credit, this form shall be called "Universal Credit Claim Application - F".
d) Living wage commission shall also be tasked with authorising universal credit payments.
e) Universal credit payments shall be calculated as "UCP = LI - II", where UCP refers to universal credit payment, LI refers to living income calculated as established in section 2b, II refers to income of indivudal. If the value calculated is lower than zero, no universal credit payments will be made nor will any deductions be made.
f) Claimant of universal credit payment shall be required to fill out the "Universal Credit Claim Application - F" before payments are begun and this form must be filled out every year, or when there is any change in circumstances, which ever is earlier.
g) Universal credit payment shall be paid into private bank account, which claimant will be required to have.
h) No further payments shall be granted by future bills, unless such benefit is for shall be pregnant women, carers, disabled and war veterans.

Section 3 - Declaration and Fraud
a) All claimants of universal credit payments shall be required to declare their total other income as part of the form mentioned in section 2. This must be done every three months, or when there is change in income, which ever is earlier.
b) Failure to comply with section 3a or section 2f, within fifteen days of the change shall be considered fraud of second degree and delict under judicial act punishable by prison sentence between two and seven years and fine equivalent or greater than 200% of the payments made to indivudal by living wage commission.
c) Providing living wage commission with false information or failure to comply with section 3a or section 2f within ninety days of the change shall be considered serious fraud of first degree and delict under judicial act punishable by prison sentence between five and ten years and fine equivalent or greater than 300% of the payments made to individual by living wage commission.
d) Once an indivudal has committed fraud under either section 3b or section 3c, they shall be disqualified from claiming universal credit payments or any other benefits provided by state, for life.

Section 4 - Requirement to work
Unless there is special exceptions, as granted by living wage commission, claimant shall be required to actively seek work to increase their income. Failure to do this shall be considered valid reason for withdrawal of universal credit payments.


Suggestions? Oh and yes, I stole "universal credit" from UK, any better name suggestions are also welcome.

2b. Just say 1 year please.
3b. Stipulate a maximum fine please. The maximum fine for a delict is £15,000.
3c. ^
3d. Now that is a tad bit harsh isn't it? Once someone has completed their sentence or fully paid their fine, they should be eligible to receive benefits. I mean, they paid their debt to society, right?
4. Add in a workfare requirement as well. For instance, in order to keep your benefits, you must either take an offer of workfare (formed through partnerships with companies and charities) or volunteer to work for a charity/religion until you are able to obtain a stable job.
Cicero thinks I'm Rome's Helen of Troy and Octavian thinks he'll get his money, the stupid fools.

User avatar
Great Nepal
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 28677
Founded: Jan 11, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Great Nepal » Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:37 am

Wolfmanne wrote:
Great Nepal wrote:
Universal Credit
Urgency: High| Drafted by: Great Nepal| Co-sponsors:


Recognising that certain income is nessecery to survive, and this income must be guaranteed to every citizen while ensuring that work always pays and work is never disincentived. This, by power granted to this senate by the people, hereby enacts universal credit bill,
Section 1- Definition
When used in this act, following terms will have meaning as stated in this section and any other disputes as to meaning of terms shall be dealt with by Oxford dictionary (http://oxforddictionaries.com/))
Living income shall be defined as minimum income required for an indivudal to subsist.
Other income shall be defined as income an indivudal gets from any other source, except from universal credit.

Section 2 - Creation and Administration of Universal Credit System
a) Living wage commission shall be created, which shall be tasked with dividing the nation into "income zones", based on cost of living.
b) Living wage commission shall also be tasked with calculating living income for each income zone, which is to be updated 31,536,000 seconds.
c) Living wage commission shall also be tasked with creating one claim form required to claim universal credit, this form shall be called "Universal Credit Claim Application - F".
d) Living wage commission shall also be tasked with authorising universal credit payments.
e) Universal credit payments shall be calculated as "UCP = LI - II", where UCP refers to universal credit payment, LI refers to living income calculated as established in section 2b, II refers to income of indivudal. If the value calculated is lower than zero, no universal credit payments will be made nor will any deductions be made.
f) Claimant of universal credit payment shall be required to fill out the "Universal Credit Claim Application - F" before payments are begun and this form must be filled out every year, or when there is any change in circumstances, which ever is earlier.
g) Universal credit payment shall be paid into private bank account, which claimant will be required to have.
h) No further payments shall be granted by future bills, unless such benefit is for shall be pregnant women, carers, disabled and war veterans.

Section 3 - Declaration and Fraud
a) All claimants of universal credit payments shall be required to declare their total other income as part of the form mentioned in section 2. This must be done every three months, or when there is change in income, which ever is earlier.
b) Failure to comply with section 3a or section 2f, within fifteen days of the change shall be considered fraud of second degree and delict under judicial act punishable by prison sentence between two and seven years and fine equivalent or greater than 200% of the payments made to indivudal by living wage commission.
c) Providing living wage commission with false information or failure to comply with section 3a or section 2f within ninety days of the change shall be considered serious fraud of first degree and delict under judicial act punishable by prison sentence between five and ten years and fine equivalent or greater than 300% of the payments made to individual by living wage commission.
d) Once an indivudal has committed fraud under either section 3b or section 3c, they shall be disqualified from claiming universal credit payments or any other benefits provided by state, for life.

Section 4 - Requirement to work
Unless there is special exceptions, as granted by living wage commission, claimant shall be required to actively seek work to increase their income. Failure to do this shall be considered valid reason for withdrawal of universal credit payments.


Suggestions? Oh and yes, I stole "universal credit" from UK, any better name suggestions are also welcome.

2b. Just say 1 year please.
3b. Stipulate a maximum fine please. The maximum fine for a delict is £15,000.
3c. ^
3d. Now that is a tad bit harsh isn't it? Once someone has completed their sentence or fully paid their fine, they should be eligible to receive benefits. I mean, they paid their debt to society, right?
4. Add in a workfare requirement as well. For instance, in order to keep your benefits, you must either take an offer of workfare (formed through partnerships with companies and charities) or volunteer to work for a charity/religion until you are able to obtain a stable job.

2b. But, giving it in seconds is more accurate. Year is variable between 365 days and 366 days. :p
3b&c, How about the fine to be through separate civil lawsuit whose verdict is related to verdict of criminal trial? This is because say someone wrongfully claimed £250,000 in benefits, we should be able to fine then at least that, more for punitive effect.
3d. Its a bit harsh, but the intent is to discourage fraud. If someone knows that they will be disqualified from claiming benefits if they try to defraud the taxpayer, they probably wont try to do it.
4. Yes, that sounds good.
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.


User avatar
CTALNH
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9596
Founded: Jul 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby CTALNH » Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:37 am

post delete
Last edited by CTALNH on Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
"This guy is a State socialist, which doesn't so much mean mass murder and totalitarianism as it means trying to have a strong state to lead the way out of poverty and towards a bright future. Strict state control of the economy is necessary to make the great leap forward into that brighter future, and all elements of society must be sure to contribute or else."
Economic Left/Right: -9.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.64
Lawful Neutral/Lawful Evil half and half.
Authoritarian Extreme Leftist because fuck pre-existing Ideologies.
"Epicus Doomicus Metallicus"
Radical Anti-Radical Feminist Feminist
S.W.I.F: Sex Worker Inclusionary Feminist.
T.I.F: Trans Inclusionary Feminist

User avatar
Lemanrussland
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5078
Founded: Dec 10, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Lemanrussland » Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:38 am

Great Nepal wrote:
Universal Credit
Urgency: High| Drafted by: Great Nepal| Co-sponsors:


Recognising that certain income is nessecery to survive, and this income must be guaranteed to every citizen while ensuring that work always pays and work is never disincentived. This, by power granted to this senate by the people, hereby enacts universal credit bill,
Section 1- Definition
When used in this act, following terms will have meaning as stated in this section and any other disputes as to meaning of terms shall be dealt with by Oxford dictionary (http://oxforddictionaries.com/))
Living income shall be defined as minimum income required for an indivudal to subsist.
Other income shall be defined as income an indivudal gets from any other source, except from universal credit.

Section 2 - Creation and Administration of Universal Credit System
a) Living wage commission shall be created, which shall be tasked with dividing the nation into "income zones", based on cost of living.
b) Living wage commission shall also be tasked with calculating living income for each income zone, which is to be updated 31,536,000 seconds.
c) Living wage commission shall also be tasked with creating one claim form required to claim universal credit, this form shall be called "Universal Credit Claim Application - F".
d) Living wage commission shall also be tasked with authorising universal credit payments.
e) Universal credit payments shall be calculated as "UCP = LI - II", where UCP refers to universal credit payment, LI refers to living income calculated as established in section 2b, II refers to income of indivudal. If the value calculated is lower than zero, no universal credit payments will be made nor will any deductions be made.
f) Claimant of universal credit payment shall be required to fill out the "Universal Credit Claim Application - F" before payments are begun and this form must be filled out every year, or when there is any change in circumstances, which ever is earlier.
g) Universal credit payment shall be paid into private bank account, which claimant will be required to have.
h) No further payments shall be granted by future bills, unless such benefit is for shall be pregnant women, carers, disabled and war veterans.
i) Claimant must be a permanent resident in Aurentina or its dependencies.

Section 3 - Declaration and Fraud
a) All claimants of universal credit payments shall be required to declare their total other income as part of the form mentioned in section 2. This must be done every three months, or when there is change in income, which ever is earlier.
b) Failure to comply with section 3a or section 2f, within fifteen days of the change shall be considered fraud of second degree and delict under judicial act punishable by prison sentence between two and seven years and fine equivalent or greater than 200% of the payments made to indivudal by living wage commission.
c) Providing living wage commission with false information or failure to comply with section 3a or section 2f within ninety days of the change shall be considered serious fraud of first degree and delict under judicial act punishable by prison sentence between five and ten years and fine equivalent or greater than 300% of the payments made to indivudal by living wage commission.
d) Once an indivudal has committed fraud under either section 3b or section 3c, they shall be disqualified from claiming universal credit payments or any other benefits provided by state, for life.

Section 4 - Requirement to work
Unless there is special exceptions, as granted by living wage commission, claimant shall be required to actively seek work to increase their income. Failure to do this shall be considered valid reason for withdrawal of universal credit payments.


Suggestions? Oh and yes, I stole "universal credit" from UK, any better name suggestions are also welcome.

Add in a few specific exceptions to the work requirement.

1) If you're severely disabled and medically unable to work.
2) If you're of retirement age.
3) If you're in vocational training or education.

Basically, as long as you're not a NEET, you should be getting the benefit.
Last edited by Lemanrussland on Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Wolfmanne
Senator
 
Posts: 4418
Founded: Mar 16, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Wolfmanne » Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:46 am

Great Nepal wrote:
Wolfmanne wrote:2b. Just say 1 year please.
3b. Stipulate a maximum fine please. The maximum fine for a delict is £15,000.
3c. ^
3d. Now that is a tad bit harsh isn't it? Once someone has completed their sentence or fully paid their fine, they should be eligible to receive benefits. I mean, they paid their debt to society, right?
4. Add in a workfare requirement as well. For instance, in order to keep your benefits, you must either take an offer of workfare (formed through partnerships with companies and charities) or volunteer to work for a charity/religion until you are able to obtain a stable job.

2b. But, giving it in seconds is more accurate. Year is variable between 365 days and 366 days. :p
3b&c, How about the fine to be through separate civil lawsuit whose verdict is related to verdict of criminal trial? This is because say someone wrongfully claimed £250,000 in benefits, we should be able to fine then at least that, more for punitive effect.
3d. Its a bit harsh, but the intent is to discourage fraud. If someone knows that they will be disqualified from claiming benefits if they try to defraud the taxpayer, they probably wont try to do it.
4. Yes, that sounds good.

2b. Fine. This is a stupid thing to argue over anyway.
2b&c. If someone claimed more than £15,000, then that should be prosecuted as a felony, which has a maximum penalty of £1,000,000. If someone cheated the system of an amount that's more than £1,000,000, then simply increase the prison sentence.
3d. Then it makes more sense to stay in prison. Think about it, free food, a free bed, etc. It would cause people to re-offend to get back in or commit suicide if they are unable to obtain work. Once you've paid your debt to society, that's it.
Cicero thinks I'm Rome's Helen of Troy and Octavian thinks he'll get his money, the stupid fools.

User avatar
Great Nepal
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 28677
Founded: Jan 11, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Great Nepal » Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:51 am

Wolfmanne wrote:
Great Nepal wrote:2b. But, giving it in seconds is more accurate. Year is variable between 365 days and 366 days. :p
3b&c, How about the fine to be through separate civil lawsuit whose verdict is related to verdict of criminal trial? This is because say someone wrongfully claimed £250,000 in benefits, we should be able to fine then at least that, more for punitive effect.
3d. Its a bit harsh, but the intent is to discourage fraud. If someone knows that they will be disqualified from claiming benefits if they try to defraud the taxpayer, they probably wont try to do it.
4. Yes, that sounds good.

2b. Fine. This is a stupid thing to argue over anyway.
3b&c. If someone claimed more than £15,000, then that should be prosecuted as a felony, which has a maximum penalty of £1,000,000. If someone cheated the system of an amount that's more than £1,000,000, then simply increase the prison sentence.
3d. Then it makes more sense to stay in prison. Think about it, free food, a free bed, etc. It would cause people to re-offend to get back in or commit suicide if they are unable to obtain work. Once you've paid your debt to society, that's it.

3b&c. Okay, I will fix that.
3d. Okay, how about more intensive checks before authorising payment?
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.


User avatar
Malgrave
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5738
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Malgrave » Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:55 am

So I understand that this universal credit can be taken by those in employment? That is if even with a job they fall under the local cost of living?
Frenequesta wrote:Well-dressed mad scientists with an edge.

United Kingdom of Malgrave (1910-)
Population: 331 million
GDP Per Capita: 42,000 dollars
Join the Leftist Cooperation and Security Pact

User avatar
Ainin
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13989
Founded: Mar 05, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Ainin » Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:56 am

I have a feeling I missed something important on IRC...
Republic of Nakong | 內江共和國 | IIwiki · Map · Kylaris
"And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you — where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat?"

User avatar
Wolfmanne
Senator
 
Posts: 4418
Founded: Mar 16, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Wolfmanne » Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:57 am

Ainin wrote:I have a feeling I missed something important on IRC...

You didn't. I'm still on.
Cicero thinks I'm Rome's Helen of Troy and Octavian thinks he'll get his money, the stupid fools.

User avatar
Great Nepal
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 28677
Founded: Jan 11, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Great Nepal » Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:00 am

Lemanrussland wrote:Add in a few specific exceptions to the work requirement.
1) If you're severely disabled and medically unable to work.
2) If you're of retirement age.
3) If you're in vocational training or education.
Basically, as long as you're not a NEET, you should be getting the benefit.

Sure, I thought it was covered under special exception clause but I suppose being specific helps.



Universal Credit
Urgency: High| Drafted by: Great Nepal| Co-sponsors:


Recognising that certain income is nessecery to survive, and this income must be guaranteed to every citizen while ensuring that work always pays and work is never disincentived. This, by power granted to this senate by the people, hereby enacts universal credit bill,
Section 1- Definition
When used in this act, following terms will have meaning as stated in this section and any other disputes as to meaning of terms shall be dealt with by Oxford dictionary (http://oxforddictionaries.com/))
Living income shall be defined as minimum income required for an indivudal to subsist.
Other income shall be defined as income an indivudal gets from any other source, except from universal credit.

Section 2 - Creation and Administration of Universal Credit System
a) Living wage commission shall be created, which shall be tasked with dividing the nation into "income zones", based on cost of living.
b) Living wage commission shall also be tasked with calculating living income for each income zone, which is to be updated 31,536,000 seconds (1 year).
c) Living wage commission shall also be tasked with creating one claim form required to claim universal credit, this form shall be called "Universal Credit Claim Application - F".
d) Living wage commission shall also be tasked with authorising universal credit payments.
e) Universal credit payments shall be calculated as "UCP = LI - II", where UCP refers to universal credit payment, LI refers to living income calculated as established in section 2b, II refers to income of indivudal. If the value calculated is lower than zero, no universal credit payments will be made nor will any deductions be made.
f) Claimant of universal credit payment shall be required to fill out the "Universal Credit Claim Application - F" before payments are begun and this form must be filled out every year, or when there is any change in circumstances, which ever is earlier.
g) Universal credit payment shall be paid into private bank account, which claimant will be required to have.
h) No further payments shall be granted by future bills, unless such benefit is for shall be pregnant women, carers, disabled and war veterans.
i) Claimant must be a permanent resident in Aurentina or its dependencies.

Section 3 - Declaration and Fraud
a) All claimants of universal credit payments shall be required to declare their total other income as part of the form mentioned in section 2. This must be done every three months, or when there is change in income, which ever is earlier.
b) Failure to comply with section 3a or section 2f, within fifteen days of the change shall be considered fraud of second degree.
i) If wrongfully claimed amount is below £7500, this shall be considered delict and punishable by prison sentence between two and seven years and fine equivalent to 200% of the payments made to indivudal by living wage commission.
ii) If wrongfully claimed amount exceeds £7500, this shall be considered felony and punishable by fine equivalent to 300% of the payments made to indivudal by living wage commission upto £1,000,000 and appropriate prison sentence as established by judicial act.

c) Providing living wage commission with false information or failure to comply with section 3a or section 2f within ninety days of the change shall be considered serious fraud of first degree.
i) If wrongfully claimed amount is below £5000, this shall be considered delict and punishable by prison sentence between five and ten years and fine equivalent to 300% of the payments made to indivudal by living wage commission.
ii) If wrongfully claimed amount exceeds £5000, this shall be considered felony and punishable by fine equivalent to 300% of the payments made to indivudal by living wage commission upto £1,000,000 and appropriate prison sentence as established by judicial act.

d) Once an indivudal has committed fraud under either section 3b or section 3c, there shall be more intensive search before authorising universal credit payment in future.

Section 4 - Requirement to work
a) Unless there is special exceptions, as granted by living wage commission, claimant shall be required to actively seek work to increase their income. Failure to do this shall be considered valid reason for withdrawal of universal credit payments.
b) Unemployed claimant will also be required to take any job offered by living wage commission, or volunteer in local charity. Failure to do this is valid reason for withdrawal of universal credit payment.
c) Special exception shall include but shall not be limited to:
i) Severely disabled preventing from working.
ii) Over retirement age, which shall be determined by future legislation.
iii) Enrolled in formal education or vocational training.
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.


User avatar
Great Nepal
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 28677
Founded: Jan 11, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Great Nepal » Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:02 am

Malgrave wrote:So I understand that this universal credit can be taken by those in employment? That is if even with a job they fall under the local cost of living?

Yes, basically if their total income (regardless of source) is below local living living income, they get universal credit payment.
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.


User avatar
Wolfmanne
Senator
 
Posts: 4418
Founded: Mar 16, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Wolfmanne » Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:03 am

Great Nepal wrote:
Malgrave wrote:So I understand that this universal credit can be taken by those in employment? That is if even with a job they fall under the local cost of living?

Yes, basically if their total income (regardless of source) is below local living living income, they get universal credit payment.

Ah yes, then in that case, remember to note that if the claimant is in full-time/part-time employment but it doesn't fully make ends meet, that they do not have to take part in the workfare or charity-volunteering scheme.
Cicero thinks I'm Rome's Helen of Troy and Octavian thinks he'll get his money, the stupid fools.

User avatar
Great Nepal
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 28677
Founded: Jan 11, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Great Nepal » Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:05 am

Wolfmanne wrote:
Great Nepal wrote:Yes, basically if their total income (regardless of source) is below local living living income, they get universal credit payment.

Ah yes, then in that case, remember to note that if the claimant is in full-time/part-time employment but it doesn't fully make ends meet, that they do not have to take part in the workfare or charity-volunteering scheme.

Yep, I did that. Do you support it?

Universal Credit
Urgency: High| Drafted by: Great Nepal| Co-sponsors:


Recognising that certain income is nessecery to survive, and this income must be guaranteed to every citizen while ensuring that work always pays and work is never disincentived. This, by power granted to this senate by the people, hereby enacts universal credit bill,
Section 1- Definition
When used in this act, following terms will have meaning as stated in this section and any other disputes as to meaning of terms shall be dealt with by Oxford dictionary (http://oxforddictionaries.com/))
Living income shall be defined as minimum income required for an indivudal to subsist.
Other income shall be defined as income an indivudal gets from any other source, except from universal credit.

Section 2 - Creation and Administration of Universal Credit System
a) Living wage commission shall be created, which shall be tasked with dividing the nation into "income zones", based on cost of living.
b) Living wage commission shall also be tasked with calculating living income for each income zone, which is to be updated 31,536,000 seconds (1 year).
c) Living wage commission shall also be tasked with creating one claim form required to claim universal credit, this form shall be called "Universal Credit Claim Application - F".
d) Living wage commission shall also be tasked with authorising universal credit payments.
e) Universal credit payments shall be calculated as "UCP = LI - II", where UCP refers to universal credit payment, LI refers to living income calculated as established in section 2b, II refers to income of indivudal. If the value calculated is lower than zero, no universal credit payments will be made nor will any deductions be made.
f) Claimant of universal credit payment shall be required to fill out the "Universal Credit Claim Application - F" before payments are begun and this form must be filled out every year, or when there is any change in circumstances, which ever is earlier.
g) Universal credit payment shall be paid into private bank account, which claimant will be required to have.
h) No further payments shall be granted by future bills, unless such benefit is for shall be pregnant women, carers, disabled and war veterans.
i) Claimant must be a permanent resident in Aurentina or its dependencies.

Section 3 - Declaration and Fraud
a) All claimants of universal credit payments shall be required to declare their total other income as part of the form mentioned in section 2. This must be done every three months, or when there is change in income, which ever is earlier.
b) Failure to comply with section 3a or section 2f, within fifteen days of the change shall be considered fraud of second degree.
i) If wrongfully claimed amount is below £7500, this shall be considered delict and punishable by prison sentence between two and seven years and fine equivalent to 200% of the payments made to indivudal by living wage commission.
ii) If wrongfully claimed amount exceeds £7500, this shall be considered felony and punishable by fine equivalent to 300% of the payments made to indivudal by living wage commission upto £1,000,000 and appropriate prison sentence as established by judicial act.

c) Providing living wage commission with false information or failure to comply with section 3a or section 2f within ninety days of the change shall be considered serious fraud of first degree.
i) If wrongfully claimed amount is below £5000, this shall be considered delict and punishable by prison sentence between five and ten years and fine equivalent to 300% of the payments made to indivudal by living wage commission.
ii) If wrongfully claimed amount exceeds £5000, this shall be considered felony and punishable by fine equivalent to 300% of the payments made to indivudal by living wage commission upto £1,000,000 and appropriate prison sentence as established by judicial act.

d) Once an indivudal has committed fraud under either section 3b or section 3c, there shall be more intensive search before authorising universal credit payment in future.

Section 4 - Requirement to work
a) Unless there is special exceptions, as granted by living wage commission, claimant shall be required to actively seek work to increase their income. Failure to do this shall be considered valid reason for withdrawal of universal credit payments.
b) Unemployed claimant will also be required to take any job offered by living wage commission, or volunteer in local charity. Failure to do this is valid reason for withdrawal of universal credit payment.
c) Special exception shall include but shall not be limited to:
i) Severely disabled preventing from working.
ii) Over retirement age, which shall be determined by future legislation.
iii) Enrolled in formal education or vocational training.
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.


User avatar
Malgrave
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5738
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Malgrave » Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:05 am

Great Nepal wrote:
Malgrave wrote:So I understand that this universal credit can be taken by those in employment? That is if even with a job they fall under the local cost of living?

Yes, basically if their total income (regardless of source) is below local living living income, they get universal credit payment.


Is this based off the UK system?
Frenequesta wrote:Well-dressed mad scientists with an edge.

United Kingdom of Malgrave (1910-)
Population: 331 million
GDP Per Capita: 42,000 dollars
Join the Leftist Cooperation and Security Pact

User avatar
Great Nepal
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 28677
Founded: Jan 11, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Great Nepal » Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:06 am

Malgrave wrote:
Great Nepal wrote:Yes, basically if their total income (regardless of source) is below local living living income, they get universal credit payment.


Is this based off the UK system?

From my understanding of system UK is transitioning into, yes.
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.


User avatar
The Nihilistic view
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11424
Founded: May 14, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Nihilistic view » Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:32 am

Great Nepal wrote:
Malgrave wrote:So I understand that this universal credit can be taken by those in employment? That is if even with a job they fall under the local cost of living?

Yes, basically if their total income (regardless of source) is below local living living income, they get universal credit payment.


Yes from what I have read they will get a proportion of the credit depending on how much they earn, designed to make sure that work pays more than benefits.
Slava Ukraini

User avatar
Ainin
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13989
Founded: Mar 05, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Ainin » Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:26 am

I made a TV channel :3
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=245587
Republic of Nakong | 內江共和國 | IIwiki · Map · Kylaris
"And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you — where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat?"

User avatar
Phing Phong
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1748
Founded: Sep 04, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Phing Phong » Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:33 am

For official purposes, is "Commonwealth of Aurentina" or "Aurentine Commonwealth" correct, or are both equally acceptable?
Incompetent Buddhist, liberal centrist and militant queer

Embassy Program | NSwiki Pages | Factbook | Map | National Anthem | Constitution | Phing Phong Fine Rices | Culture Test
Member of the Stonewall Alliance, open to all LGBT-friendly nations!

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to Archives

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

Advertisement

Remove ads