NSG Senate Chamber [NSG Senate] - Version 4

[Resora]

Please point out where precisely I leveled an ad hominem against any person or group, rather than (a) claiming the bill "merges ambiguous infringements on civil liberties with classism and a healthy dose of absurdly poor writing" and (b) accurately stated that the Aurentine right was responsible for said bill that "merges ambiguous infringements on civil liberties with classism and a healthy dose of absurdly poor writing".

As ruled before, a reference to a party or political affiliation can be taken as an attack. And such is not permitted under PPUBA.

(4) The use of offensive, provocative or threatening language in any Senate thread is strictly forbidden.

As far as I am aware, it is not against any Senate rule to state that a proposed bill was supported by a party or those of a political affiliation, something I have considerable experience with as the right tends to bring up the WEA at least once every time someone on the left enters any kind of legislative debate. You know, in a vein similar to your post from a couple of moments ago,

the ProgCoa is continually limiting freedom of speech and our right to do with our body as we please.

[The Nihilistic view]

Order!

Remarks like that are not considered the done thing in this chamber. Please refrain from future generalisations and Ad hominem's against entire sides of the house.

Please point out where precisely I leveled an ad hominem against any person or group, rather than (a) claiming the bill "merges ambiguous infringements on civil liberties with classism and a healthy dose of absurdly poor writing" and (b) accurately stated that the Aurentine right was responsible for said bill that "merges ambiguous infringements on civil liberties with classism and a healthy dose of absurdly poor writing".

9 people do not reflect the opinions of an entire side of the house containing over 100 senators. Now you have two choices, one voluntarily tone down the rhetoric and massive generalisations that are a personal attack on an entire group or two citing precedent (as Zep say's) for such you will be on the end of a POO against you.

[New Zepuha]

I withdraw my statement.

Resora has the opportunity to do so unless the PpT would like to call a POO under which you must officially withdraw said statement.

Leave it to the Aurentine right to make a bill that merges ambiguous infringements on civil liberties with classism and a healthy dose of absurdly poor writing.

[The Nihilistic view]

I believe most senators are currently overreacting to the Francophonie bill. The Francophonie is not meant to override other languages, it's meant to promote French as a language to be used among the other native languages of nations. Do you see the government of Canada trying to kill off English and make everyone speak French? do you see the Romanian government discouraging the use of Romanian? Do you see the government of Qatar trying to bury Arabic and replace it with French? No. The Francophonie seeks to promote French so that people can use it as a second, third, fourth, etc. language so that it may open up new opportunities, opportunities that will be available to the people of Aurentina with Francophonie membership. Why should the people of Aurentina be left in the dark about learning about French culture, when they can be part of a nation that will help educate them on foreign cultures. The Francophonie does not exist to forcefeed culture down the throats of foreign nations, it seeks to complement with the value of complémentarité with the other cultures. Francophone culture is not just French culture, Francophone culture touches many areas of the world such as West Africa, the West Indies, North America, and Asia, why should our citizens not get the opportunity to learn about these many cultures and to inform themselves so as to make themselves better global citizens?

The Francophonie also helps to promote key tenets of human rights such as democracy, education and peace. Why should we not help with promoting these in the countries where people need it the most? It also promotes collaboration on education, higher education and research. By being members of the Francophonie, we can collaborate scientifically with other nations. Instead of one nation of 40 million trying to solve a problem, why not join 57 nations with a total of around a billion people collaborating for a better future for the world? Is it really in our best interests to isolate ourselves from other nations and trying to prohibit the people from experiencing and learning about other cultures.

Your forgetting the key point, Canada has lot's of french speakers so it makes sense. We don't. Therefore it is not needed. You don't need to be in the Phoney to learn about other cultures and be better citizens, to suggest otherwise is preposterous.

We already have the Commonwealth and the UN both organisations that don't also aim to make people they help promote a certain culture.

EDIT: We have around 6-7 languages ahead of French in our nation. Italian, Aurentine which is based on Dutch and German. Arabic, and English. We have more than enough languages and cultures, people are free to learn what they like we don't need to shove it in their faces. They can explore french culture by themselves if they wish. All these languages are far more useful in Aurentina than French.

[Resora]

Please point out where precisely I leveled an ad hominem against any person or group, rather than (a) claiming the bill "merges ambiguous infringements on civil liberties with classism and a healthy dose of absurdly poor writing" and (b) accurately stated that the Aurentine right was responsible for said bill that "merges ambiguous infringements on civil liberties with classism and a healthy dose of absurdly poor writing".

9 people do not reflect the opinions of an entire side of the house containing over 100 senators. Now you have two choices, one voluntarily tone down the rhetoric and massive generalisations that are a personal attack on an entire group or two citing precedent (as Zep say's) for such you will be on the end of a POO against you.

Are you claiming associating the Immigration Act with the Aurentine right is a persional attack on the Aurentine right?

[The Nihilistic view]

I withdraw my statement.

Resora has the opportunity to do so unless the PpT would like to call a POO under which you must officially withdraw said statement.

Leave it to the Aurentine right to make a bill that merges ambiguous infringements on civil liberties with classism and a healthy dose of absurdly poor writing.

I prefer to let people do things of their own accord so I will give the opportunity. And thank you for withdrawing your own statement, I had missed it with all the gaiety of the other much larger post.

[New Zepuha]

9 people do not reflect the opinions of an entire side of the house containing over 100 senators. Now you have two choices, one voluntarily tone down the rhetoric and massive generalisations that are a personal attack on an entire group or two citing precedent (as Zep say's) for such you will be on the end of a POO against you.

Are you claiming associating the Immigration Act with the Aurentine right is a persional attack on the Aurentine right?

Leave it to the Aurentine right to make a bill that merges ambiguous infringements on civil liberties with classism and a healthy dose of absurdly poor writing.

Your statement is out of line Senator. As I have state already, the use of provocative language is not in order.

[The Nihilistic view]

Are you claiming associating the Immigration Act with the Aurentine right is a persional attack on the Aurentine right?

Leave it to the Aurentine right to make a bill that merges ambiguous infringements on civil liberties with classism and a healthy dose of absurdly poor writing.

Your statement is out of line Senator. As I have state already, the use of provocative language is not in order.

Right, I think that's enough time to do it by ones self, using the article you cited above I would like to raise a POO at the following statement.

Leave it to the Aurentine right to make a bill that merges ambiguous infringements on civil liberties with classism and a healthy dose of absurdly poor writing.

the underlined being a personal attack on an entire group most of which have nothing to do with the bill in question.

[New Zepuha]

Your statement is out of line Senator. As I have state already, the use of provocative language is not in order.

Right, I think that's enough time to do it by ones self, using the article you cited above I would like to raise a POO at the following statement.

Leave it to the Aurentine right to make a bill that merges ambiguous infringements on civil liberties with classism and a healthy dose of absurdly poor writing.

the underlined being a personal attack on an entire group most of which have nothing to do with the bill in question.

Resora, you are officially asked to withdraw your statement under Article 1.4 of the PPUBA. An unequivocal withdrawal is required.

[Soviet Canuckistan]

I believe most senators are currently overreacting to the Francophonie bill. The Francophonie is not meant to override other languages, it's meant to promote French as a language to be used among the other native languages of nations. Do you see the government of Canada trying to kill off English and make everyone speak French? do you see the Romanian government discouraging the use of Romanian? Do you see the government of Qatar trying to bury Arabic and replace it with French? No. The Francophonie seeks to promote French so that people can use it as a second, third, fourth, etc. language so that it may open up new opportunities, opportunities that will be available to the people of Aurentina with Francophonie membership. Why should the people of Aurentina be left in the dark about learning about French culture, when they can be part of a nation that will help educate them on foreign cultures. The Francophonie does not exist to forcefeed culture down the throats of foreign nations, it seeks to complement with the value of complémentarité with the other cultures. Francophone culture is not just French culture, Francophone culture touches many areas of the world such as West Africa, the West Indies, North America, and Asia, why should our citizens not get the opportunity to learn about these many cultures and to inform themselves so as to make themselves better global citizens?

The Francophonie also helps to promote key tenets of human rights such as democracy, education and peace. Why should we not help with promoting these in the countries where people need it the most? It also promotes collaboration on education, higher education and research. By being members of the Francophonie, we can collaborate scientifically with other nations. Instead of one nation of 40 million trying to solve a problem, why not join 57 nations with a total of around a billion people collaborating for a better future for the world? Is it really in our best interests to isolate ourselves from other nations and trying to prohibit the people from experiencing and learning about other cultures.

Your forgetting the key point, Canada has lot's of french speakers so it makes sense. We don't. Therefore it is not needed. You don't need to be in the Phoney to learn about other cultures and be better citizens, to suggest otherwise is preposterous.

We already have the Commonwealth and the UN both organisations that don't also aim to make people they help promote a certain culture.

EDIT: We have around 6-7 languages ahead of French in our nation. Italian, Aurentine which is based on Dutch and German. Arabic, and English. We have more than enough languages and cultures, people are free to learn what they like we don't need to shove it in their faces. They can explore french culture by themselves if they wish. All these languages are far more useful in Aurentina than French.

You might not need it but does it help, yes. Do we need to be in the UN or the Commonwealth? No. Does it help Aurentina to be in both of those? Yes. Same idea with the Francophonie. As I've previously said, joining the Francophonie does not promote shoving Francophone culture in people's faces, the Francophonie actually promotes the native cultures of a nation and its people. Not joining the Francophonie because of that reason is like saying churches should be banned since they apparently shove religion down people's throats, like churches, the Francophonie isn't shoving things down throats. You say French isn't relevant in Aurentina, but the bigger picture needs to be looked at, many more people speak French than German, Italian or Aurentine, it's a skill to learn French, not a nuisance to the nation. Also, in terms of other nations that speak French as an official language, only English exceeds that number.

[Resora]

Right, I think that's enough time to do it by ones self, using the article you cited above I would like to raise a POO at the following statement.

the underlined being a personal attack on an entire group most of which have nothing to do with the bill in question.

Resora, you are officially asked to withdraw your statement under Article 1.4 of the PPUBA. An unequivocal withdrawal is required.

Very well. I hereby rephrase the first part of my statement as "leave it to some members of the Aurentine right", the rest of the statement left intact as (a) a subjective opinion on the bill and (b) a more precise statement of the bill's authorship and sponsorship. I unequivocally withdraw any implication, intentional or otherwise, that the entire Aurentine right is responsible for the AIA.

[New Zepuha]

I made an order to withdraw, not rephrase. You are still using provocative language to call into question the ability of another senator.

[Resora]

I completely disagree with your assessment of the statement. That said, I will withdraw it.

I am also taking note of this decision, and will use it as precedent in any case in which a Senator mentions the authorship of a bill without being completely neutral on her or his opinion of the bill.

[The Nihilistic view]

I completely disagree with your assessment of the statement. That said, I will withdraw it.

I am also taking note of this decision, and will use it as precedent in any case in which a Senator mentions the authorship of a bill without being completely neutral on her or his opinion of the bill.

It's not about being neutral on a bill it's about personal attacks, generalisations and Ad hominem's. You have missed the point if you think it's about being positive or negative in one's opinion of a bill. One can quite easily be negative about a bill without resorting to the three things above.

[Resora]

Reposting as debate is still ongoing. This bill needs to be repealed before a vote if for no other reason than the poor writing.

2. For the purposes of this Act, "Aurentine citizen" refers to an individual of Aurentine nationality, thus granted certain legal, social and political rights and privileges to be established in this Act,

12. Citizens of the Aurentine Commonwealth have the following rights:

a. The right to vote in national and subnational elections;
b. The right to stand for public office;
c. The right to attain and apply for public sector employment;
d. The right to apply for employment in sectors, agencies and institutions associated with the provision of national security, such as the National Intelligencery, the Commonwealth Armed Forces and the Aurentine National Gendermerie;

Sloppy writing. As this bill is written, the language of this bill codifies the rights of the Aurentine citizen, whether or not that is its intent. None of the rights of citizenship, as described here, are conditional, which means should this bill pass into law, most common restrictions on these rights will come into conflict with this bill. No provision is made for restricting these rights, no matter the criteria -- for example, a convicted violent felon, who still holds legal Aurentine nationality, is still a citizen as defined by this bill and thus has the right to run for office, or a toddler could run for office and or vote by merit of his nationality.

14. Foreign nationals who are not permanent residents (PR) or Aurentine citizens and who have been granted the right to dwell and be employed within the Aurentine Commonwealth's territorial borders are not entitled to the rights listed in clauses (12) and (13) of this Act,

I'm sure locking tourists, diplomats, businesspeople, noncitizen workers and foreign celebrities out from our public healthcare system, even in the event of injury while in Aurentina, will reflect well on our nation. Nothing like sending a tourist back to their home country with a broken arm/a giant bill for taking care of their broken arm to spread international good will, eh?

13. Individuals with permanent resident (PR) status in the Aurentine Commonwealth shall not have access to the rights listed in clause (12) of this Act until they become certified as citizens and nationals of the Aurentine Commonwealth, until which time they shall have access to the following rights:

Oh, nevermind, I see you're also planning on excluding citizens from our healthcare system, instead reserving it for permanent residents until which time they decide to become citizens and thus lose access to educational subsidies, healthcare, pensions, and all those other luxuries.

19. An individual will be granted the right to reside, be employed or study at an Aurentine educational institution within the territorial borders of the Aurentine Commonwealth as a foreign national with an indefinite leave to remain, provided they fulfill the following the requirements, are approved by the AVIO and issued a relevant employment-based visa:

a. An Aurentine-based company has applied for an employment visa to permit the residency of a foreign worker within the Aurentine Commonwealth, as the foreign worker in question meets the necessary skill requirements of the private company's hiring policy, or the foreign student in question has been accepted into an Aurentine university or college;

17. Individuals are considered Aurentine citizens and of Aurentine nationality if they fulfill any of the following criteria, and are required to apply to the AVIO for citizenship status unless they have been born within the Aurentine Commonwealth:
f. They have attained permanent residency (PR) status in Aurentina and have had legal residence in the Aurentine Commonwealth for 3 years and intend to continue living and working within the territorial borders of the Aurentine Commonwealth;

So in short, the only way someone can get residency and thus have a chance at citizenship is if (a) they are already sponsored by a university or a corporation, or are wealthy, or (b), failing that, they win the sponsorship of a corporate farm that provides them with the means to get temporary residency (but not medical care while working here, because you're just a worthless seasonal agri laborer). If I didn't know better, I'd assume you're trying to end immigration barring a handful of wealthy white types. Why not stop beating around the bush and just copy the US's old immigration acts from the 1920s?

36. The Aurentine Border Force (ABF) is hereby authorized to ...enter private property of individuals, with a relevant signed warrant under the Judicial Act

'
Surely the serving of warrants is something the police, and not the ABF, should be responsible for?

to demand the presentation of relevant immigration documents, be they national identification card, passport, Permanent Resident identification card or stamped and signed visas, if and only if the police officer conducting the search can prove probable cause that the individual was guilty of illegal immigration

For such a sweeping provision, there is virtually nothing about procedure written here. What defines "probable cause"? A strong accent or poor skills in our language? What happens if a tourist left her passport inside the hotel? Does she get detained for the mistake of having an accent and leaving her papers inside her room?

a complaint may be lodged to the Aurentine Police Federation under the Policing and Law Enforcement Act if a police officer is suspected of having conducted an unlawful search

Well that's relieving, provided we can actually figure out what counts as a lawful search. Meanwhile, the tourist sits in a jail cell because she left her papers in her room when she went swimming in the hotel pool.

[Blahbania]

Government Donations Act
Author: Benito Calvino (LPA); Sponsors: James Lu (LPA); John Wilson (RefP), Blahblahblania (LPA), Edward von Engels (LPA); Section: Finances; Urgency: Moderate-Low
The Senate of the Aurentine Commonwealth hereby passes the following:

1.DONATION TO THE AURENTINE GOVERNMENT THROUGH THE INCOME TAX SYSTEM
(a)General Rule
The "2013 Aurentine Budget Proposal" is amended by adding at the end the following new part:

DONATION TO THE GOVERNMENT

(a)General Rule
Every taxpayer who makes a return of the tax imposed by 2013 Aurentine Budget Proposal for any taxable year may designate that an amount (not less than £1) in addition to any payment of tax for such taxable year shall be deposited in the general fund of the Treasury and shall be made available to the ministry or government institution of their choice.

(b)Manner And Time Of Designation
Any designation under subsection (a) for any taxable year—

(1)shall be made at the time of filing the return of the tax imposed by 2013 Aurentine Budget Proposal for such taxable year and in such manner as the Secretary may by regulation prescribe, except that such designation shall be made either on the first page of the return or on the page bearing the taxpayer’s signature, and
(2)shall be accompanied by a payment of the amount so designated.
(c)Treatment Of Amounts Designated
For purposes of this title, the amount designated by any taxpayer under subsection (a) shall be treated as a contribution made by such taxpayer to the an institution or ministry under the jurisdiction of the Commonwealth of Aurentina on the last date prescribed for filing the return of tax imposed by 2013 Aurentine Budget Proposal (determined without regard to extensions) or, if later, the date the return is filed.

.

(b)Clerical Amendment
The table of parts for 2013 Aurentine Budget is amended by adding at the end thereof the following new item:

Donation to the Government

.

(c)Effective Date
The amendments made by this section shall apply to all taxable years beginning after the date of the enactment of this Act, and shall apply to all future national budgets.

Code: Select all

[box][b][size=150]Government Donations Act[/size][/b]
[size=85]Author: Benito Calvino (LPA); Sponsors: James Lu (LPA); John Wilson (RefP), Blahblahblania (LPA), Edward von Engels (LPA); Section: Finances; Urgency: [color=#FFBF00]Moderate-Low[/color][/size]
The Senate of the Aurentine Commonwealth hereby passes the following:

1.DONATION TO THE AURENTINE GOVERNMENT THROUGH THE INCOME TAX SYSTEM
(a)General Rule
The "2013 Aurentine Budget Proposal" is amended by adding at the end the following new part:

DONATION TO THE GOVERNMENT

(a)General Rule
Every taxpayer who makes a return of the tax imposed by 2013 Aurentine Budget Proposal for any taxable year may designate that an amount (not less than £1) in addition to any payment of tax for such taxable year shall be deposited in the general fund of the Treasury and shall be made available to the ministry or government institution of their choice.

(b)Manner And Time Of Designation
Any designation under subsection (a) for any taxable year—

(1)shall be made at the time of filing the return of the tax imposed by 2013 Aurentine Budget Proposal for such taxable year and in such manner as the Secretary may by regulation prescribe, except that such designation shall be made either on the first page of the return or on the page bearing the taxpayer’s signature, and
(2)shall be accompanied by a payment of the amount so designated.
(c)Treatment Of Amounts Designated
For purposes of this title, the amount designated by any taxpayer under subsection (a) shall be treated as a contribution made by such taxpayer to the an institution or ministry under the jurisdiction of the Commonwealth of Aurentina on the last date prescribed for filing the return of tax imposed by 2013 Aurentine Budget Proposal (determined without regard to extensions) or, if later, the date the return is filed.

.

(b)Clerical Amendment
The table of parts for 2013 Aurentine Budget is amended by adding at the end thereof the following new item:

Donation to the Government

.

(c)Effective Date
The amendments made by this section shall apply to all taxable years beginning after the date of the enactment of this Act, and shall apply to all future national budgets.[/box]

Can I ask that this be added to the queue under FINANCES (I think that's the one)

You spelled my name wrong. It's Blahbania, not Blahblahblania.

[Lamaredia]

Senator Vehrstadt stands up.
"Fellow senators, it's with a heavy heart that I must declare that senator Charles H. Marlin of the NDP, secretary of the chamber and my dear friend, is dead." he said, looking solemn. "Be assured that as his replacement as the new secretary, I will continue on his legacy."

EDIT: Sorry if this seems a bit rushed, I haven't slept all night.

[The Ministry of Defence]

The Ministry of Defence recommends the immediate removal of all senators from the capital via police/military transportation. Security is recommended and use of public transportation is highly discouraged.

Senate Building

Marius Kruger stands. "I hereby motion to suspend all senate proceedings for the day. Furthermore, I motion to reconvene in an alternate, more secure location, given the audacity and efficacy of recent attacks against the nation of Aurentina and her people."

[Corenea]

The Ministry of Defence recommends the immediate removal of all senators from the capital via police/military transportation. Security is recommended and use of public transportation is highly discouraged.

Senate Building

Marius Kruger stands. "I hereby motion to suspend all senate proceedings for the day. Furthermore, I motion to reconvene in an alternate, more secure location, given the audacity and efficacy of recent attacks against the nation of Aurentina and her people."

Senator Jen Coren stood up. "What's going on? I thought our law enforcement got this under control. Did those terrorists decided to join together?"

[The Ministry of Defence]

Senator Jen Coren stood up. "What's going on? I thought our law enforcement got this under control. Did those terrorists decided to join together?"

Marius Kruger turned to face her. "This situation is many things, but under control is not one of them. Do I have a second on my motion?"

[The Nihilistic view]

OOC: Your aware the RP at the theater is taking place on the 3rd of jan whilst our chamber is currently on the 6th. Your three days too late.

[The Ministry of Defence]

OOC: Your aware the RP at the theater is taking place on the 3rd of jan whilst our chamber is currently on the 6th. Your three days to late.

OOC: I was not aware of that. Why do they take place on different dates...it seems silly. Still, consider all of my previous posts on the matter retconned.

[The Nihilistic view]

OOC: Your aware the RP at the theater is taking place on the 3rd of jan whilst our chamber is currently on the 6th. Your three days to late.

OOC: I was not aware of that. Why do they take place on different dates...it seems silly. Still, consider all of my previous posts on the matter retconned.

That's fluid time for you, Outside of course in RP's a post is what? 10 seconds to a minutes worth of time from each perspective. Hence in the thread we are no more than an hour from the start of the ambush.

You see the chamber though always has to run real time to move forward debate and voting with predictability and properly.

[Mediciano]

OOC: I was not aware of that. Why do they take place on different dates...it seems silly. Still, consider all of my previous posts on the matter retconned.

That's fluid time for you, Outside of course in RP's a post is what? 10 seconds to a minutes worth of time from each perspective. Hence in the thread we are no more than an hour from the start of the ambush.

You see the chamber though always has to run real time to move forward debate and voting with predictability and properly.

Makes sense.

[Euskirribakondara]

You say French isn't relevant in Aurentina, but the bigger picture needs to be looked at, many more people speak French than German, Italian or Aurentine, it's a skill to learn French, not a nuisance to the nation. Also, in terms of other nations that speak French as an official language, only English exceeds that number.

"It is true a Francophonie membership could be useful. But Aurentina is not in a position to make it really and completely useful. By entering the Francophonie, if we were accepted as full members, we'd have to abide to several rules that will alter the status quo of Aurentinian culture and education. I quote from the Francophonie principles... "Education policies must also give French an integral place alongside the partner languages".

As my other fellow senator already said, there are languages that are much more important than French here in Aurentina.

And I would like to add that if it were by quantity of speakers, we should be speaking Chinese and Hindi right now. That's just not how the world of linguistics work. It is a very good skill, indeed, to speak other international languages.... But in our current world, I see equal (maybe even a bit greater) potential in German, Spanish, or even Arabic."