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Chimps and Bonobos (Conservatives and liberals)

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FREEaquaticdancelesson
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Chimps and Bonobos (Conservatives and liberals)

Postby FREEaquaticdancelesson » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:52 am

While bored during a snow day...snowed in again I decided to research my hominini bretheren, but of the pan subspecies instead... what I found about them was...pretty interesting..


Apparently, Chimps and Bonobos are very similar in behavior and intelligence, but differ in their society structures... Chimps are conservative and Bonobos are liberal :blink: .


CHIMP SOCIETY:
A structure that gives power to the chimpanzees who can manipulate and work their way to the top through dominance.,Chimps also inherit power and wealth in the society. As well as a prevalence in being omnivores, eating both meat and plants. They are known to commonly form war and hunting parties dominated by an alpha male and are known to be far more violent and aggressive than their Bonobo cousins.
CONSERVATIVE RELEVANCE:
Much of conservative philosophy states that men should fall and rise based on their own merit, in this way chimps are "capitalistic", as well as many conservatives opposing things such as "inheritance taxes" and believe that the powerful have a right to be there. Conservatives are known to be more aggressive than liberals as well, voicing more loudly.

BONOBO SOCIETY:
The structure of a Bonobo society is based on an egalitarian structure, spreading power throughout the society., And although there is some society structure it is far less important than the chimps, and they are commonly known to have female chimps in charge as well. They are known to resolve conflicts non-violently and are much less aggressive than the chimpanzees. They have been known to be bisexual and use sex to help resolve conflicts. They also mainly eat plants and easy to access insects, such as using sticks to get termites.
LIBERAL RELEVANCE:
Liberals are known to have a "make love not war" stance. They are known to be tolerant of homosexuality and bisexuality and are known to have vegetarian movements. As well as egalitarian stances and safety nets.

So from this I conclude that political theory exists in nature as well!, That being said, as advanced as we are, humans still have a "human nature" that we apply to many of our policies... unlike Chimps and Bonobos we are able to understand this and our views are not "set in stone", we have choices, although I still believe that genetics does play a big part in how your brain works, and how you process and view things.
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Postby Nobel Hobos » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:01 am

To say that chimp or bonobo society is "set in stone" is quite unjustified. Why are you so sure that their society isn't learned behaviour ... and don't say "because they don't have language"

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Hydesland
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Postby Hydesland » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:08 am

Conservatives are chimps? More like CHUMPS.

/joke

There could be something to this.

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Postby Offenheim » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:12 am

You've failed to mention the part where humans have the genes of bonobos that push towards the sex impulse, and don't have the chimpanzee gene that pushes towards violence.
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Postby FREEaquaticdancelesson » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:16 am

Offenheim wrote:You've failed to mention the part where humans have the genes of bonobos that push towards the sex impulse, and don't have the chimpanzee gene that pushes towards violence.


Maybe, but you failed to understand the concept of "sexual sublimation" in humans, therefor giving us a choice of how to use a libido.
Humans AREN'T monkeys, they're apes.

As an atheist, my view is that all religions are equally as true as the last.
Hehehe :)

YOU HAVE BEEN CONDITIONED SINCE BIRTH
THINKof how many references to "god" you say in your daily life,
"God!", "Damn it!", "Hell!", "Oh lord!", "Bless you", "holy shit!", "Godspeed" etc.
THINK of all the war propaganda you endure every day
NEWS, VIDEO GAMES, MOVIES, MUSIC, COMMERCIALS.
THINK of how avid consumerism is a part of your life.
Brand loyalty, Commercialism, Drug company monopolies, Class dictated by wealth, Bailouts.
CAPITALISM IS NOT THE SAME AS CONSUMERISM.


Relax....

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Postby Rambhutan » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:53 am

I really recommend the book Baboon Metaphysics and How Monkeys See the World to see some of the parallels between their social behaviour and our own. One of the things that seem quite common is that there are separate hierarchies for males and females. For males your position in the hierarchy is very mobile depending on how you did in your last confrontation - so you can go from being the top of the hierarchy to the bottom in a very short amount of time. Females generally have less social mobility and status is generally inherited, so if your mother was high up in the social order you will be too (interestingly if a mother has several daughters the youngest is higher rank than the next youngest and so on). I do wonder if a similar thing goes on in human society?
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Postby Natapoc » Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:40 am

Nobel Hobos wrote:To say that chimp or bonobo society is "set in stone" is quite unjustified. Why are you so sure that their society isn't learned behaviour ... and don't say "because they don't have language"

*throws faeces*


That stinks!

But yes exactly my question also. Both chimps and Bonobos are able to learn and pass down learned behaviors to next generations.

It's likely, much like human behavior, some mix of environmental and genetics. We should declare chimps and bonobos non human persons to give them better protections. Just about a week ago there was another case of a poacher found carrying 7 chimp heads. He's only getting like 4 months in jail!

edit: Pretty cool thinking OP :) You could turn this into some serious academic research if you went further and perhaps get it published.
Last edited by Natapoc on Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ryadn » Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:41 am

Offenheim wrote:You've failed to mention the part where humans have the genes of bonobos that push towards the sex impulse, and don't have the chimpanzee gene that pushes towards violence.


Um...what?
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Postby Ryadn » Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:45 am

I thought any time anyone even referenced bonobos would be a happy day. I have been proven wrong.

This is quite a stretch to make an analogy when far better analogies already exist.

The last paragraph was particularly facepalm-worthy. Any time I see "human nature" invoked it makes me shudder, but now, not only are we influenced by "human nature", there's also no such thing as "chimp nature" or "bonobo nature", it seems.
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Postby Camicon » Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:48 am

By this logic all herbivores that live in a herd are communist, all carnivores that live in a herd are facist, and anyone that doesn't live in a herd in anarchist.
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Postby Altimaea » Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:55 am

Im conservative and I'm not violent. :/

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Postby Georgism » Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:58 am

Which primate is Juche?
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Postby Ex-Brogavia » Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:58 am

Screw the monkeys. Its all just tricks taught to them by bored college students who want more grant money to spend on cocaine.
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Postby Natapoc » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:15 pm

Ryadn wrote:I thought any time anyone even referenced bonobos would be a happy day. I have been proven wrong.

This is quite a stretch to make an analogy when far better analogies already exist.

The last paragraph was particularly facepalm-worthy. Any time I see "human nature" invoked it makes me shudder, but now, not only are we influenced by "human nature", there's also no such thing as "chimp nature" or "bonobo nature", it seems.


I don't think he/she intended it to be as serious as you are taking it. Chimps as conservatives and liberals as bonobos is funny. Now I'm going to step back and see how you two resolve this issue:

If you hug or rub eachothers genitals to make up then you are CLEARLY Liberals.
If you make loud noises and aggressive posturing after which one of you submits then you are clearly a conservative.
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Postby Hresejnen » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:17 pm

Nobel Hobos wrote:To say that chimp or bonobo society is "set in stone" is quite unjustified. Why are you so sure that their society isn't learned behaviour ... and don't say "because they don't have language"

*throws faeces*


Because these societies have been researched for a very long time, and they are all very similar within species.

Offenheim wrote:You've failed to mention the part where humans have the genes of bonobos that push towards the sex impulse, and don't have the chimpanzee gene that pushes towards violence.


Source please. As far as I know, we have not located any such definitive genes, let alone been able to compare them cross-species.

Altogether, though, the merit of this thread is really only philosophical. I think you'd have a pretty hard time suggesting that liberals are liberal because they have bonobo-like biology, and conservatives are conservative because they're like chimps. It's really just a comparison that can be made and nothing more.
Last edited by Hresejnen on Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Volnotova » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:18 pm

Altimaea wrote:Im conservative and I'm not violent. :/

/End of Thread


I'm an anarchist and I approve of the use of violence.

:lol:
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Postby Soviet Haaregrad » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:54 pm

Volnotova wrote:
Altimaea wrote:Im conservative and I'm not violent. :/

/End of Thread


I'm an anarchist and I approve of the use of violence.

:lol:


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This is interesting regarding bonobos and chimps, however humans seem to be intermediate between their two social structures.
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Postby Ryadn » Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:23 pm

Natapoc wrote:
Ryadn wrote:I thought any time anyone even referenced bonobos would be a happy day. I have been proven wrong.

This is quite a stretch to make an analogy when far better analogies already exist.

The last paragraph was particularly facepalm-worthy. Any time I see "human nature" invoked it makes me shudder, but now, not only are we influenced by "human nature", there's also no such thing as "chimp nature" or "bonobo nature", it seems.


I don't think he/she intended it to be as serious as you are taking it. Chimps as conservatives and liberals as bonobos is funny. Now I'm going to step back and see how you two resolve this issue:

If you hug or rub eachothers genitals to make up then you are CLEARLY Liberals.
If you make loud noises and aggressive posturing after which one of you submits then you are clearly a conservative.
:hug: :evil:


I like to posture aggressively while I rub genitals. Does that make me a moderate? :blink:
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"But please, explain how a condom breaking is TOTALLY different from a tire getting blown out. I mean, in one case, a piece of rubber you're relying on to remain intact so that your risk of negative consequences won't significantly increase breaks through no inherent fault of your own, and in the other case, a piece of rubber you're relying on to remain intact so that your risk of negative consequences won't significantly increase breaks through no inherent fault of your own." - The Norwegian Blue

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Postby The Black Forrest » Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:48 pm

Georgism wrote:Which primate is Juche?


As in Korea?
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Postby The Black Forrest » Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:50 pm

Rambhutan wrote:I really recommend the book Baboon Metaphysics and How Monkeys See the World to see some of the parallels between their social behaviour and our own. One of the things that seem quite common is that there are separate hierarchies for males and females. For males your position in the hierarchy is very mobile depending on how you did in your last confrontation - so you can go from being the top of the hierarchy to the bottom in a very short amount of time. Females generally have less social mobility and status is generally inherited, so if your mother was high up in the social order you will be too (interestingly if a mother has several daughters the youngest is higher rank than the next youngest and so on). I do wonder if a similar thing goes on in human society?


Haven't read Baboon Metaphysics but the other is good.....

If you are curios to that, have a look at Chimpanzee Politics.......
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
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Postby KatBoo » Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:51 pm

I think this implies deeply concerning things about the sexual proclivities of liberals.
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Postby FREEaquaticdancelesson » Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:18 pm

KatBoo wrote:I think this implies deeply concerning things about the sexual proclivities of liberals.

Image
Last edited by FREEaquaticdancelesson on Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Humans AREN'T monkeys, they're apes.

As an atheist, my view is that all religions are equally as true as the last.
Hehehe :)

YOU HAVE BEEN CONDITIONED SINCE BIRTH
THINKof how many references to "god" you say in your daily life,
"God!", "Damn it!", "Hell!", "Oh lord!", "Bless you", "holy shit!", "Godspeed" etc.
THINK of all the war propaganda you endure every day
NEWS, VIDEO GAMES, MOVIES, MUSIC, COMMERCIALS.
THINK of how avid consumerism is a part of your life.
Brand loyalty, Commercialism, Drug company monopolies, Class dictated by wealth, Bailouts.
CAPITALISM IS NOT THE SAME AS CONSUMERISM.


Relax....

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Postby KatBoo » Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:37 pm

FREEaquaticdancelesson wrote:
KatBoo wrote:I think this implies deeply concerning things about the sexual proclivities of liberals.

Image


Remember the republican senator in the washroom?

At least we do it with panache.
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