Congresswoman Gabby Giffords Shot in Head

[Mercator Terra]

Your point? If he took the time to get a gun he can easily get one from some gang banger.

In Germany? Note that he didn't? Likewise, there's a case of a failed shool killing spree in Bonn where the girl that tried had a sword and ended up only cutting off someone's thumb before being chased off. Now, if she had a gun...

Note how both these cases occured in a country where guns aren't freely available, and somehow people wanting to didn't result in murder because murder is a lot harder without guns.

See my post about Switzerland.

[Marsini]

Your point? If he took the time to get a gun he can easily get one from some gang banger.

In Germany? Note that he didn't? Likewise, there's a case of a failed shool killing spree in Bonn where the girl that tried had a sword and ended up only cutting off someone's thumb before being chased off. Now, if she had a gun...

Note how both these cases occured in a country where guns aren't freely available, and somehow people wanting to didn't result in murder because murder is a lot harder without guns.

It would still violate the usual interpretation of the second amendment. Furthermore, do you expect redneck Steve to surrender his rifle? Do you expect B-Dizzle to surrender his AK? Do you expect Juan the Drug-Dealer to give you his gun and stop torturing the poor illegal immigrants he tricked so that he could exhort their families?

[Mercator Terra]

In Switzerland nearly everyone owns a gun (being everyone is in the militia and everyone must keep their issued weapon with the them) yet murder rates are extremely low. In 1992 there were only 92 murders with a hand gun (in Switzerland).

So we can derive the conclusion that... Swiss people are less unbalanced than Americans?

Have you studied the psychology of ever Swiss citizen? This argument is weak.

[Buffett and Colbert]

So we can derive the conclusion that... Swiss people are less unbalanced than Americans?

Have you studied the psychology of ever Swiss citizen? This argument is weak.

Europeans generally hold more common sense, yeah.

[Wikkiwallana]

DId you pay attention in 2008? She appeared on SNL. Anyway, this is just another "All the other kids do it, why shouldn't I?" excuse for something you know has gotten out of hand. I might believe you if former Governor Palin issued a statement saying, "This rhetoric has gotten out of hand and I pledge to take a calmer, less belligerent line in my public statements. I call on everyone in American politics to join me in doing so, Republican or Democrat, liberal or conservative. And further, if you come to a rally where I'm speaking carrying a gun, you are not welcome. If you attend a protest carrying a gun, I repudiate you. In the America I know, we do not make political changes at the point of a gun."

Bullshit. If she said that you'd claim she was doing it for a political agenda, which is what every single liberal in the media would claim, which is why, if she had the idea to do it, she never would. Sorry, the liberal media shut off discourse like that from Palin pre-emptively. I just thought that was the way you wanted it too, Farn.

If she said it, then actually abided by it I would applaud her an might actually think she had a shred of hope. If she said it then went right back to doing what she's been doing, like what seems to be happening with pulling the poster, then I'd call it a crass political move. Such statements mean nothing without a change in behavior.

BTW, you are the one who seems to have the preemptively decided mind here.

[Marsini]

So we can derive the conclusion that... Swiss people are less unbalanced than Americans?

Have you studied the psychology of ever Swiss citizen? This argument is weak.

The point is that Switzerland has an environment where individuals own guns and nobody dies. However, I am unaware of any tests being done to measure imbalances. You do not need every citizen, merely a good sample of citizens.

[The Archiepelago]

I don't care what party she's from. it's a tragedy and also that a kid was killed and now that people are using the dead as images to spite the other side is DISPICABLE! And as far as I'm concerned it wasn't Sarah palin or ANYONE ELSE. who shot them. It was a PSYCHO who did ALL BY HIMSELF.

[Grave_n_idle]

So we can derive the conclusion that... Swiss people are less unbalanced than Americans?

Have you studied the psychology of ever Swiss citizen? This argument is weak.

They have lots of guns but they tend to kill people a lot less than America which has loads of guns.

Sorry, what conclusion was I supposed to reach?

[Wikkiwallana]

Yeah, assassination means just killing one person at a time (though in this case, 20 collateral targets). Revolution can mean killing thousands or even millions, depending on how it goes.

Not if it is a peaceful revolution, in which case only the government can inflict casualties.

Then it wouldn't be a "second amendment solution" what with the lack of guns and shooting the "evil oppressors" and all.

[Marsini]

Bullshit. If she said that you'd claim she was doing it for a political agenda, which is what every single liberal in the media would claim, which is why, if she had the idea to do it, she never would. Sorry, the liberal media shut off discourse like that from Palin pre-emptively. I just thought that was the way you wanted it too, Farn.

If she said it, then actually abided by it I would applaud her an might actually think she had a shred of hope. If she said it then went right back to doing what she's been doing, like what seems to be happening with pulling the poster, then I'd call it a crass political move. Such statements mean nothing without a change in behavior.

BTW, you are the one who seems to have the preemptively decided mind here.

I concur. However, if it proves to be hypocrisy- how typical. Hopefully, she means it and can attempt to regain the respect she had prior to joining the Tea Party. I suppose that I will give her the benefit of the doubt.

[Desperate Measures]

In Switzerland nearly everyone owns a gun (being everyone is in the militia and everyone must keep their issued weapon with the them) yet murder rates are extremely low. In 1992 there were only 92 murders with a hand gun (in Switzerland).

While I appreciate gaining some insight into how swiss cheese is manufactured, you are very much not at all close as to why I am currently slapping my face over and over.

[Marsini]

I don't care what party she's from. it's a tragedy and also that a kid was killed and now that people are using the dead as images to spite the other side is DISPICABLE! And as far as I'm concerned it wasn't Sarah palin or ANYONE ELSE. who shot them. It was a PSYCHO who did ALL BY HIMSELF.

^This. However, I await actual investigation.

[Grave_n_idle]

I don't care what party she's from. it's a tragedy and also that a kid was killed and now that people are using the dead as images to spite the other side is DISPICABLE! And as far as I'm concerned it wasn't Sarah palin or ANYONE ELSE. who shot them. It was a PSYCHO who did ALL BY HIMSELF.

I don't think anyone is arguing that anyone else shot them. I think some people are expressing concern - as Giffords, herself, did about a year ago - that the constant hysteria is going to - and indeed, perhaps has - get someone hurt.

[Laerod]

Because getting a gun legally is so easy.

Its easier to get one illegally were im from. (New Jersey, USA)

Exactly. Because getting a gun legally is easy. Or could you point out where illegal guns come from?

In Germany? Note that he didn't? Likewise, there's a case of a failed shool killing spree in Bonn where the girl that tried had a sword and ended up only cutting off someone's thumb before being chased off. Now, if she had a gun...

Note how both these cases occured in a country where guns aren't freely available, and somehow people wanting to didn't result in murder because murder is a lot harder without guns.

See my post about Switzerland.

I did. Care to source those numbers?

In Germany? Note that he didn't? Likewise, there's a case of a failed shool killing spree in Bonn where the girl that tried had a sword and ended up only cutting off someone's thumb before being chased off. Now, if she had a gun...

Note how both these cases occured in a country where guns aren't freely available, and somehow people wanting to didn't result in murder because murder is a lot harder without guns.

It would still violate the usual interpretation of the second amendment. Furthermore, do you expect redneck Steve to surrender his rifle? Do you expect B-Dizzle to surrender his AK? Do you expect Juan the Drug-Dealer to give you his gun and stop torturing the poor illegal immigrants he tricked so that he could exhort their families?

What would violate it? I haven't been calling for a ban on guns in the US, mainly because there's a pandora's box issue with guns being so freely available, but why on earth would Juan the Drug-Dealer be allowed to have a gun? And why would anyone need an assault rifle?

[The Archiepelago]

I don't care what party she's from. it's a tragedy and also that a kid was killed and now that people are using the dead as images to spite the other side is DISPICABLE! And as far as I'm concerned it wasn't Sarah palin or ANYONE ELSE. who shot them. It was a PSYCHO who did ALL BY HIMSELF.

I don't think anyone is arguing that anyone else shot them. I think some people are expressing concern - as Giffords, herself, did about a year ago - that the constant hysteria is going to - and indeed, perhaps has - get someone hurt.

I was listening to the radio this morning and they said that they're suspeting there were more people involved.

[Farnhamia]

Your theory is that the number of murders is a constant, it's just the weapons that vary?

No murders will still happen either way just with another weapon.

I take that as a "Yes." Thank you.

[Grave_n_idle]

I don't think anyone is arguing that anyone else shot them. I think some people are expressing concern - as Giffords, herself, did about a year ago - that the constant hysteria is going to - and indeed, perhaps has - get someone hurt.

I was listening to the radio this morning and they said that they're suspeting there were more people involved.

They've been talking about at least one other person of interest, although I wasn't aware that they'd actually gone so far as to suggest conspiracy.

[The Archiepelago]

I was listening to the radio this morning and they said that they're suspeting there were more people involved.

They've been talking about at least one other person of interest, although I wasn't aware that they'd actually gone so far as to suggest conspiracy.

Yeah they're also ,as I'm sure other have heard, blaming the tea party, conservatives and Sarah palin. and also talk radio

[Desperate Measures]

I was listening to the radio this morning and they said that they're suspeting there were more people involved.

They've been talking about at least one other person of interest, although I wasn't aware that they'd actually gone so far as to suggest conspiracy.

I thought I heard today that that person has been cleared.

[Marsini]

Its easier to get one illegally were im from. (New Jersey, USA)

Exactly. Because getting a gun legally is easy. Or could you point out where illegal guns come from?

See my post about Switzerland.

I did. Care to source those numbers?

It would still violate the usual interpretation of the second amendment. Furthermore, do you expect redneck Steve to surrender his rifle? Do you expect B-Dizzle to surrender his AK? Do you expect Juan the Drug-Dealer to give you his gun and stop torturing the poor illegal immigrants he tricked so that he could exhort their families?

What would violate it? I haven't been calling for a ban on guns in the US, mainly because there's a pandora's box issue with guns being so freely available, but why on earth would Juan the Drug-Dealer be allowed to have a gun? And why would anyone need an assault rifle?

The Cartels in Mexico, love. They can freely cross the border and exploit unfortunate immigrants who rely on them to cross. I will avoid the border issue presently, but the fact is that weapons can still be smuggled in and it would be difficult to do anything more than place limited restrictions without causing a shitstorm. In addition, it would set a bad precedent to eliminate a portion of the original Bill of Rights. There isn't much you can do to support gun restriction above the most basic level.

[Marsini]

They've been talking about at least one other person of interest, although I wasn't aware that they'd actually gone so far as to suggest conspiracy.

Yeah they're also ,as I'm sure other have heard, blaming the tea party, conservatives and Sarah palin. and also talk radio

With no evidence, I might add. Patience is a virtue.

[Wikkiwallana]

Perhaps it is possible to have freedom of speech, while still holding the speaker responsible for the consequences of their speech.

But speech must come first. We should not ban forms of speech, because of the consequences that speech might have. We can punish the speech, but only after (and if) we can prove that it lead to the consequences.

A kingpin ordering a minion to commit a crime, this we can punish. An officer giving an illegal command, this we can punish. These have a quality of one-on-one, there is a provable line of command. The speaker knew the consequences and means nothing but those consequences. Sarah Palin's website using gun symbolism to make a political point ... we can't punish like those. Certainly we can talk in our turn about it, we can hold her 'responsible' in a political sense, but we should not pretend that she or any other pundit (she's a pundit, a talk-monger who does not deserve even the title of 'politician') is legally responsible for what her audience does.

We can however keep guns out of the hands of criminals. We can do that by keeping guns in as few hands as possible, and reversing the onus of proof. Just as the school did, when it refused Loughlin access to the school unless he could provide a professional opinion that he was NOT a threat, just so should we grant access to legal firearms. Some say "criminals will always have guns" but I counter: "by the time we know they are a criminal, it is too late to deny them a gun".

As far as I can tell, that's all anyone is pushing for, to tell them that if they want to lead, they need to keep themselves respectable and be cautious with what they say.

[Andaluciae]

In Switzerland nearly everyone owns a gun (being everyone is in the militia and everyone must keep their issued weapon with the them) yet murder rates are extremely low. In 1992 there were only 92 murders with a hand gun (in Switzerland).

So we can derive the conclusion that... Swiss people are less unbalanced than Americans?

That's actually probably true...

We could also come to the conclusion that Switzerland is a tiny fraction of the size of the US.

[The Archiepelago]

Yeah they're also ,as I'm sure other have heard, blaming the tea party, conservatives and Sarah palin. and also talk radio

With no evidence, I might add. Patience is a virtue.

I just think of it as absolutley naive to try blaming others for what someone did. idk if naive would be the choice wrd but I couldn't think of anything else. Maybe ignorant.

[Caninope]

Loughner's been agreed upon as an unstable nut, and here you are still trying to conjure the FOXNews Magic to make him a Liberal Gunman. Cute.

It would be nice if you could read the article that was posted.