What is a fair punishment for rape?

[Free Lelouche]

That is not civilised either.

If anything a just punishment would push for the repentance and eventual release of a criminal.

This.

Kinda saddens me how vindictive the front page of this thread is. I'm not even sure I want to read the other pages...

It's because the average person see's every rapist ever, as some sort of inhuman monster

Serial Rapist =/= Rapist, you'd be surprised how many incidents are singular, and the majority of victims are raped by people they know for reasons that aren't always exclusively about violence or control.

But of course the above paragraph is heresy
It is better to believe that every single act of rape ever committed was done because the offender seeks to destroy the sanctity of virtue, and is nothing more then an inhuman monster. Rather then somebody who might just have an emotional problem and committed a crime of passion (which is still not an excuse, but who hasn't committed a crime of passion).

Of course, everyone who's ever struck a human being, must also be executed, or horribly mutilated, because that is a crime of violence and control, and never a crime of passion or a horrible mistake.

[Nogalia]

Hang those b*stards, give the victim all the support she deserves (i possible, paid by the rapist goods) and then sit down to write all possitive and sugar-coated excuses you want againt those actions.

I would like to see how tolerant those "I am against death penalty" guys would be if the raped woman is your sister, girlfriend or mother.

I agree some crimes allow a turning back and maybe a new chance for the perpetrator, but in other cases, there´s no way to be indulgent, much less to put a sc*m bag back on streets.

[Hyperbia]

Dissolve their testicles in acid.

[Trotskylvania]

Juries exist to answer this question, based on the specific circumstances. Prescribing a set, definite punishment for rape is stupid.

That said, I want to go on the record in stating that while I agree with the prevailing legal opinion that rape is, short only of murder, the ultimate violation of self, the crap that comes up in this thread is pretty pathetic. I'm with Nietzsche on this one: "Distrust all in who the impulse to punish is powerful".

[Dempublicents1]

because that is a crime of violence and control, and never a crime of passion or a horrible mistake.

You seem to think that these things are somehow mutually exclusive. They are not. Something can be a crime of passion and still be violent (in fact, most crimes of passion are violent). An action can be a crime of passion and still be about control. And it can certainly be a horrible mistake while also being these things.

[Saiwania]

Castration for males. Not sure about women who are rapists (a rarer occurrence). Perhaps female circumcision?

[Just Guy]

A prison sentence of varying length, depending on the severity of the crime, the potential to rehabilitate the offender, and whether they are a danger to the community.

[Ravenvalles]

Mentally healthy people, though very traumatized by an event, do not normally go into "a rage induced fit" and whatnot. What you are describing is essentially fantasy for most people.

You are assuming that mentally healthy is the norm. My experiences over the years is that most people are dealing with the many traumas that life throws at them, and are just doing the best they can with what they got. This goes for the rapist, their victim and the victim's family and friends. Something that rarely comes up is how the victim's family is traumatized, and needs to be addressed too.

[Belfras]

The Belfrasian legal system pens 'Rape' as 5-10 years depending on circumstancial evidence. Underage Rape (12-15 years) is 10-20 years and Infant-rape (0-12) carries Death by Hanging.

Non officially those convicted of Underage Rape are often sevrely beaten and castrated by inmates, those convicted of normal rape usually recieving rape in turn.

[Bottle]

This.

Kinda saddens me how vindictive the front page of this thread is. I'm not even sure I want to read the other pages...

It's because the average person see's every rapist ever, as some sort of inhuman monster

Serial Rapist =/= Rapist, you'd be surprised how many incidents are singular, and the majority of victims are raped by people they know for reasons that aren't always exclusively about violence or control.

But of course the above paragraph is heresy
It is better to believe that every single act of rape ever committed was done because the offender seeks to destroy the sanctity of virtue, and is nothing more then an inhuman monster. Rather then somebody who might just have an emotional problem and committed a crime of passion (which is still not an excuse, but who hasn't committed a crime of passion).

Of course, everyone who's ever struck a human being, must also be executed, or horribly mutilated, because that is a crime of violence and control, and never a crime of passion or a horrible mistake.

My attacker was a (former) friend of mine, and he attacked me because it didn't occur to him that he was doing anything wrong. He felt entitled to use my body whether or not I wanted him to, because he felt that he had seen "signals" from me that gave him permission to ignore my clear "Knock it off, hey, stop, STOP, FUCKING STOP, ASSHOLE."

Your simplistic breakdown makes me laugh. My attacker was known to me, but he also was definitely attacking me because of control issues and violence issues. He was certainly human, and he is also a monster as far as I'm concerned. If I believed I would get away with it, I would have killed him myself (knowing that our system would never have even charged him with my attack).

It's quite possible to recognize that rapists are human beings, and to also believe that rape is a crime which deserves the punishment of death.

[Bottle]

because that is a crime of violence and control, and never a crime of passion or a horrible mistake.

You seem to think that these things are somehow mutually exclusive. They are not. Something can be a crime of passion and still be violent (in fact, most crimes of passion are violent). An action can be a crime of passion and still be about control. And it can certainly be a horrible mistake while also being these things.

I also don't see why "crimes of passion" warrant LOWER sentences. If somebody is capable of rape when they become "impassioned," then to me that is an excellent reason to never, ever, release them from prison.

[Soviestan]

If the punishment for rape is death, than the offender would just kill the victim since there is no reason not, as he will be executed no matter what.

Unlikely, since most rapists are well aware that there is only about a 3% chance they will be convicted of rape in the first place. Rape is most often not reported, and when it is reported it is frequently not investigated, and when it is investigated charges are usually not brought, and when charges are brought it usually does not result in a conviction. Rapists are quite aware of this.

Why do you think that is? What needs to change for rape to be more effectively prosecuted?

[Arilando]

That is not civilised either.

If anything a just punishment would push for the repentance and eventual release of a criminal.

Justice isn't about effectiveness. It's about giving people what they deserve. Even if it's better for everyone involved and for society as a whole if the person isn't given what they deserve, that still doesn't make it justice.

Justice is not a utilitarian idea. It is a deontological idea.

Justice is not abot "giving people what they deserve" justice is about healing the wounds of both the victim and criminal.

[Bottle]

Unlikely, since most rapists are well aware that there is only about a 3% chance they will be convicted of rape in the first place. Rape is most often not reported, and when it is reported it is frequently not investigated, and when it is investigated charges are usually not brought, and when charges are brought it usually does not result in a conviction. Rapists are quite aware of this.

Why do you think that is? What needs to change for rape to be more effectively prosecuted?

One major step is that forensic protocols and rape statutes need to be standardized. Right now, a woman's chances of seeing her rapist prosecuted depend far too much on the zip code in which the rape occurred; some police districts have good services for rape victims and have well-trained staff who know how to deal with rape cases effectively, but a lot of districts do not. So the same crime may be prosecuted in one city, but not in the next city over.

Police and medical staff need to have better training in how to deal with rape cases, too. A lot of police officers never receive education about how to question rape victims, and a lot of staff cling to incorrect assumptions about how a rape survivor "should" behave. They often leap to incorrect conclusions or fail to pursue important information because of these assumptions.

A lot of myths about rape also need to be addressed. For example, marital rape is still not regarded as a crime by all too many people...and remember that juries are composed of people! In order to impact conviction rates, we need to deal with rape on a societal level, and raise our kids to understand what rape is really about. The random stranger jumping out at a young woman as she walks down a dark alley is actually a very small minority of rape cases. That's the image of "rape" that most people have in their minds, and they are less likely to take rape serious if it is, for instance, a woman being raped by her husband, or a boy being raped by his boyfriend, or a girl being raped after she went on a date and had a few drinks, or any other situation that doesn't fit the Platonic Form of rape that people cling to.

These would be a few good starting points, I think, although there are many other issues that could be brought up as well.

[Bottle]

Justice isn't about effectiveness. It's about giving people what they deserve. Even if it's better for everyone involved and for society as a whole if the person isn't given what they deserve, that still doesn't make it justice.

Justice is not a utilitarian idea. It is a deontological idea.

Justice is not abot "giving people what they deserve" justice is about healing the wounds of both the victim and criminal.

That is debatable.

I really wish people would stop making statements about how "X isn't civilized" or "Y isn't justice" or whatever else. That's your opinion, obviously, but others disagree. Make your case...don't just state your opinion as if it were universally-accepted fact.

[Bottle]

What mitigates rape?

Victim engaged in consensual sexual activity with the offender on the same occasion and immediately before the offence

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sent ... l/s1_rape/

And this is yet another example of one of the rape myths that we need to address.

Just because a person consented to fuck you once, does not mean she loses the right to refuse consent after that. Just because she consented to one sex act doesn't mean she loses the right to refuse consent to another act. And, most importantly, just because she consents to have sex doesn't mean she gives up the right to decide she wants to stop having sex, at any time and for any reason. If you continue having sex after she says "stop," you're a rapist.

It's really not complicated. If you fuck somebody without their consent, you commit rape. Nothing a person does removes their right to tell you to knock it off.

[Bottle]

Just because a woman consented to fuck you once, does not mean she loses the right to refuse consent after that.

Yup didn't say that

Just because she consented to one sex act doesn't mean she loses the right to refuse consent to another act.

That either

And, most importantly, just because she consents to have sex doesn't mean she gives up the right to decide she wants to stop having sex, at any time and for any reason. If you continue having sex after she says "stop," you're a rapist.

Nice hat trick

It's really not complicated. If you fuck somebody without their consent, you commit rape. Nothing a person does removes their right to tell you to knock it off.

Agreed.

*Shrug* If you don't want to read your own links, that's not my problem.

But do continue. I enjoy being right.

[Dempublicents1]

But do continue. I enjoy being right.

Well as we're in complete agreement (on the basis of your post) we're both right. How nice.

Exactly what do you think i'm missing from the link I quoted?

Let's phrase it a little differently. Getting consent to one instance of sexual activity does not, in any way, reduce a person's responsibility to get consent for all sexual activity.

If the victim does not lose the right to withdraw or refuse to give consent for further sexual acts and the responsibility of the rapist to obtain consent is not lessened by engaging in consensual sex acts, it should not be a mitigating factor in a rape case.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

If the person has been proven guilty, without a doubt, I would chemically castrate him.

[Minoriteeburg]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1467304/

This should be the punishment....

[Wesibaden]

If the woman ends up pregnant then 20 years in prison should work if not 16years...... same goes for women rapist

[The Norwegian Blue]

I would like to see how tolerant those "I am against death penalty" guys would be if the raped woman is your sister, girlfriend or mother.

It wasn't my sister, girlfriend, or mother. It was me. And I'm still against the death penalty. In fact, I'm not only against it in general, but I am explicitly against it for the guy who assaulted me. I don't want him to be killed. That would not make me feel even a tiny bit better. I want him to be kept from ever doing to anyone else what he did to me. I want him to spend the rest of his life trying to atone for his actions. I do not want to sink to his level and take pleasure in hurting someone else, even if he "deserves" it.

Does that answer your question?

[Wesibaden]

I would like to see how tolerant those "I am against death penalty" guys would be if the raped woman is your sister, girlfriend or mother.

It wasn't my sister, girlfriend, or mother. It was me. And I'm still against the death penalty. In fact, I'm not only against it in general, but I am explicitly against it for the guy who assaulted me. I don't want him to be killed. That would not make me feel even a tiny bit better. I want him to be kept from ever doing to anyone else what he did to me. I want him to spend the rest of his life trying to atone for his actions. I do not want to sink to his level and take pleasure in hurting someone else, even if he "deserves" it.

Does that answer your question?

I am sorry that had happen to you.

[The Norwegian Blue]

It wasn't my sister, girlfriend, or mother. It was me. And I'm still against the death penalty. In fact, I'm not only against it in general, but I am explicitly against it for the guy who assaulted me. I don't want him to be killed. That would not make me feel even a tiny bit better. I want him to be kept from ever doing to anyone else what he did to me. I want him to spend the rest of his life trying to atone for his actions. I do not want to sink to his level and take pleasure in hurting someone else, even if he "deserves" it.

Does that answer your question?

I am sorry that had happen to you.

Thanks. Me too.

[Dakini]

Jail time (a long time) and a tattoo across the forehead that reads "RAPIST" when he gets out unless he really, really, really reforms (e.g. spends his entire time in prison working toward reform and is certified as reformed by psychologists in some way, I dunno).