How would a Communist society look like?

[Glorious Homeland]

If your first statement was true I wouldn't have received state subsidised education or healthcare. If the later was true, Thatcher wouldn't have destroyed socialism and allowed the market to go nuts, and the EU wouldn't have pro-competition, anti-monopoly legislation. Maybe the USA is simply the work of Satan, but over here it seems a bit different to what you're saying.

Cares about =/= provide benefits.

Some regulation = barriers to entry = decreased competition

The primary reason for providing benefits is to secure votes.

Well yes, but many in government do have an interest in keeping their people looked after. You can't assume no one in government got elected because they want to help, or that policies are not related to that. It'd be like saying most businessmen are in business because they have no interest in running companies and generating money.

The reason the welfare state continues to exist in much of the world is due to, firstly, a human empathy leaders maintain with their electorate, and secondly, the leaders and electorates sense of duty regarding fairness and keeping society running. This all was begun with labour movements at the turn of the century who wanted desperately to improve their living conditions, and that spirit still lives on to this day in much of the western world.
It's a shame if you can't understand that reality, but it is a reality in places like the UK. Admittedly there will be those in power who just say whatever for votes, but the system itself is based for the last 100 years on such principals and sentiment. Of course Labour unfortunately has managed to botch many of its own initiatives by having more heart than common sense and strategic thinking.

Good regulation should be considered quality standards. Bad regulation is just needless paperwork, or at worst restrictive, as you say.

[Norstal]

North Korea is NOT a communist state.

It is because the world is divided into two camps, capitalism and communism. Next to your left is the ruins of the Fascist camp which was destroyed in 1945, so therefore, since only 2 camps are here, the DPRK belongs to the communist camp and so therefore, it's communist.

The correct answer is Juche actually. Which is like fake-Communism, an ideology that Kimmy can change at anytime he wants.

[Trotskylvania]

Utilities are natural monopolies, the same as roads. Why on earth would you want them private and deregulated? By their very nature, they're insulated from market competition.

"Natural monopolies" is a word used by politicians to legislate monopolies into existence.
http://mises.org/journals/rae/pdf/rae9_2_3.pdf

That article is utter rubbish. The notion of a natural monopoly is not a "myth" invented by legislators. The notion of a natural monopoly was theorized by a classic liberal, John Stewart Mill. Why don't you try providing an argument for why utilities aren't natural monopolies, or why natural monopolies are impossible.

It's pretty clear that a given geographic area can only be served by one utility network, one road network, etc. A company that owns the transmission network in an area will not be leasing it out to competitors for anything less than a rate that makes their electricity the cheapest. You can't build another road network to serve the same area. There can't be effective competition in roads. Hence, natural monopoly.

[Sibirsky]

"Natural monopolies" is a word used by politicians to legislate monopolies into existence.
http://mises.org/journals/rae/pdf/rae9_2_3.pdf

That article is utter rubbish. The notion of a natural monopoly is not a "myth" invented by legislators. The notion of a natural monopoly was theorized by a classic liberal, John Stewart Mill. Why don't you try providing an argument for why utilities aren't natural monopolies, or why natural monopolies are impossible.

It's pretty clear that a given geographic area can only be served by one utility network, one road network, etc. A company that owns the transmission network in an area will not be leasing it out to competitors for anything less than a rate that makes their electricity the cheapest. You can't build another road network to serve the same area. There can't be effective competition in roads. Hence, natural monopoly.

Did you read the article? There was competition. And it was legislated away. Also, phone companies lease their lines out to other service providers all the time. Because they lease in bulk it's cheaper.

[Sibirsky]

Cares about =/= provide benefits.

Some regulation = barriers to entry = decreased competition

The primary reason for providing benefits is to secure votes.

Well yes, but many in government do have an interest in keeping their people looked after. You can't assume no one in government got elected because they want to help, or that policies are not related to that. It'd be like saying most businessmen are in business because they have no interest in running companies and generating money.

The reason the welfare state continues to exist in much of the world is due to, firstly, a human empathy leaders maintain with their electorate, and secondly, the leaders and electorates sense of duty regarding fairness and keeping society running. This all was begun with labour movements at the turn of the century who wanted desperately to improve their living conditions, and that spirit still lives on to this day in much of the western world.
It's a shame if you can't understand that reality, but it is a reality in places like the UK. Admittedly there will be those in power who just say whatever for votes, but the system itself is based for the last 100 years on such principals and sentiment. Of course Labour unfortunately has managed to botch many of its own initiatives by having more heart than common sense and strategic thinking.

Good regulation should be considered quality standards. Bad regulation is just needless paperwork, or at worst restrictive, as you say.

The proper private sector analogy would be something along the lines of, businesses don't care about you. The only reason they provide quality products is to get you to spend money.

Sure, there are some genuinely caring politicians. They are few and far between. The majority are power hungry, corrupt assholes. That's reality.

[Sibirsky]

It is because the world is divided into two camps, capitalism and communism. Next to your left is the ruins of the Fascist camp which was destroyed in 1945, so therefore, since only 2 camps are here, the DPRK belongs to the communist camp and so therefore, it's communist.

The correct answer is Juche actually. Which is like fake-Communism, an ideology that Kimmy can change at anytime he wants.

Juche makes socialism and communism look like paradise.

[Sociobiology]

The correct answer is Juche actually. Which is like fake-Communism, an ideology that Kimmy can change at anytime he wants.

Juche makes socialism and communism look like paradise.

Juche is kinda like the ultimate evolution of capitalism one person owns everything.

[Wa no Kuni]

Juche makes socialism and communism look like paradise.

Juche is kinda like the ultimate evolution of capitalism one person owns everything.

[Quailtopia]

They could, but then you'd get another SDG&E, which only a few years ago(2001) did rolling brownouts throughout San Diego. The governor at the time(Gray Davis) declared a state of emergency, and the state started buying electricity to make up the shortcomings. Turns out that SDG&E had enough production to continue supplying San Diego without the new plants that Gray Davis built, but that was after the 38 new powerplants had been built.

The reason for California's blackouts was partial deragulation. Retail prices were fixed, while wholesale prices were allowed to fluctuate. During heat waves, demand increased, increasing wholesale prices. This price increases did not affect demand, because retail prices were fixed.

Uh, actually, the brownout happened because they could get away with it, and Gray Davis rapidly deregulated to cope, so they were able to build 38 power plants on the cheap.

I didn't actually say anything about deregulation either, which is why I'm kinda confused.

Also: stop killing time and respond to Cuba.

North Korea is NOT a communist state.

It is because the world is divided into two camps, capitalism and communism. Next to your left is the ruins of the Fascist camp which was destroyed in 1945, so therefore, since only 2 camps are here, the DPRK belongs to the communist camp and so therefore, it's communist.

So, regardless of the fact that disregards almost every tenet of Marxism-Leninism, it's Communist because it isn't Capitalist? So Sweden is a communist state because its pro-SDP? Why isn't the DPRK capitalist because of its recent inclusion of capitalism? This doesn't make any sense.

Juche is kinda like the ultimate evolution of capitalism one person owns everything.

No.

[Sibirsky]

Also: stop killing time and respond to Cuba.

Cuba did not ask me anything.

[Indig0]

to see what real communist societies look like, look at communist russia and communist china.

[Isles de Havaco]

Ludwig von Mises wrote a book called Socialism. Read it, and you'll find out how it won't work if they disallow people to trade freely. Or see the wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculation_problem

[Quailtopia]

Also: stop killing time and respond to Cuba.

Cuba did not ask me anything.

I was referring to your claim that I am a liar. If you are going to stoop to ad homs, at least make them correct and have sources for the contested claims. My claims had government and international body sources, while your claim is that I'm wrong because you(and an unsourced picture) say so. If you refuse to come to the table with a willingness to accept new ideas(or at least ideas that run counter to your belief) or arguments that factually and seriously address your claims, then you are wasting everyone's time.

[Quailtopia]

to see what real communist societies look like, look at communist russia and communist china.

Those were socialist countries, and in the middle of the dictatorship of the proletariat. They were not communist nations.

[Kalasparata]

I've got a picture of what it would like (this is a joke)

See all the people are ther same height, exept 2 of them where one is too tall and the other is too short so they are cutting the part of the legs off the tall person to transplant them to the short person so they can both be the same height as eachother and everyone else

But seriously it would look alot like Cuba:
Communist and POOR!

[Sibirsky]

Cuba did not ask me anything.

I was referring to your claim that I am a liar. If you are going to stoop to ad homs, at least make them correct and have sources for the contested claims. My claims had government and international body sources, while your claim is that I'm wrong because you(and an unsourced picture) say so. If you refuse to come to the table with a willingness to accept new ideas(or at least ideas that run counter to your belief) or arguments that factually and seriously address your claims, then you are wasting everyone's time.

I posted sources.

[Quailtopia]

I was referring to your claim that I am a liar. If you are going to stoop to ad homs, at least make them correct and have sources for the contested claims. My claims had government and international body sources, while your claim is that I'm wrong because you(and an unsourced picture) say so. If you refuse to come to the table with a willingness to accept new ideas(or at least ideas that run counter to your belief) or arguments that factually and seriously address your claims, then you are wasting everyone's time.

I posted sources.

For some claims, yes you did. I do think, however, that most people would say that the CIA and the WHO supercede 2 republican papers, but sure.

But I don't see how I'm lying about anything. If you are going to make this some sort of personal attack by calling me a liar, at least say how I'm lying.

[Trotskylvania]

Ludwig von Mises wrote a book called Socialism. Read it, and you'll find out how it won't work if they disallow people to trade freely. Or see the wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculation_problem

The calculation problem is also the biggest straw man argument in the world, because no one advocates for the kind of planning regime that people who foist the calculation problem describe.

[Sibirsky]

I posted sources.

For some claims, yes you did. I do think, however, that most people would say that the CIA and the WHO supercede 2 republican papers, but sure.

But I don't see how I'm lying about anything. If you are going to make this some sort of personal attack by calling me a liar, at least say how I'm lying.

I posted a video as well. The CIA and the WHO get their data on Cuban healthcare from the Cuban government. I never called you a liar either.

[Quailtopia]

For some claims, yes you did. I do think, however, that most people would say that the CIA and the WHO supercede 2 republican papers, but sure.

But I don't see how I'm lying about anything. If you are going to make this some sort of personal attack by calling me a liar, at least say how I'm lying.

I posted a video as well. The CIA and the WHO get their data on Cuban healthcare from the Cuban government. I never called you a liar either.

A video from any news source is not of the same quality as a governmental body.

The WHO study that I provided ran independent numbers to verify the Cuban claims.

This is you calling me a liar:

Baltimore had competition in providing electricity before it was legislated out of existence. You are the one that posted lies about Cuba. The quote system sucks.

How am I lying?

EDIT: I also want a source on your claim that there is a deficiency of medicine.

[Sibirsky]

A video from any news source is not of the same quality as a governmental body.

The WHO study that I provided ran independent numbers to verify the Cuban claims.

First of all, no it isn't. 2nd of all, this is Cuba we're talking about. If they had a video on their healthcare system, it would not be the one regular Cubans use. Go see Sicko by Michael Moore for a biased fairy tale. This is an undercover video.

This is you calling me a liar:

Baltimore had competition in providing electricity before it was legislated out of existence. You are the one that posted lies about Cuba. The quote system sucks.

How am I lying?

EDIT: I also want a source on your claim that there is a deficiency of medicine.

Claiming that Cuba has has a wonderful healthcare system and less poverty than the US. And many sources were posted for medicinal shortages in Cuba. Let me make myself clear, medicinal shortages for Cubans, using the regular healthcare system. There are no shortages of medicine used abroad in humanitarian missions, or for the nomenklatura, or for foreigners.

[Sibirsky]

Ludwig von Mises wrote a book called Socialism. Read it, and you'll find out how it won't work if they disallow people to trade freely. Or see the wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculation_problem

The calculation problem is also the biggest straw man argument in the world, because no one advocates for the kind of planning regime that people who foist the calculation problem describe.

DPRK?

[Arilando]

I've got a picture of what it would like (this is a joke)

See all the people are ther same height, exept 2 of them where one is too tall and the other is too short so they are cutting the part of the legs off the tall person to transplant them to the short person so they can both be the same height as eachother and everyone else

But seriously it would look alot like Cuba:
Communist and POOR!

I mean real communist societies.

[Sibirsky]

Spoilers. Use them.

[Quailtopia]

A video from any news source is not of the same quality as a governmental body.

The WHO study that I provided ran independent numbers to verify the Cuban claims.

First of all, no it isn't. 2nd of all, this is Cuba we're talking about. If they had a video on their healthcare system, it would not be the one regular Cubans use. Go see Sicko by Michael Moore for a biased fairy tale. This is an undercover video.

Or, instead of looking at a Fox Exclusive Anecdote, we could look at the findings of an unbiased international body. I don't think we are getting anywhere on this, so for the sake of trying to stop this godawful derail, Ill drop this with one last statement.

If I was to post a video of the Tuskegee Experiment, and off that video base a claim that the American medical system is actively racist and promotes the same kind of experiments on minorities that Hitler's Germany did, people would(and should) laugh at me, and say that in no way shape or form does that one video/experience invalidate all the other evidence against that being representative of the experience.

I think you can see the parallel.

Claiming that Cuba has has a wonderful healthcare system and less poverty than the US. And many sources were posted for medicinal shortages in Cuba. Let me make myself clear, medicinal shortages for Cubans, using the regular healthcare system. There are no shortages of medicine used abroad in humanitarian missions, or for the nomenklatura, or for foreigners.

I didn't say Cuba had a 'wonderful' system, I was merely saying that it was more than enough for the growth rate and natural limits of the island for the population. EDIT: In fact, what I said was:

Cuba has a shortage of just about everything. Such as basic medicine like Aspirin. The US poverty line for one person is higher than the average household income in Cuba. Adjusted for purchasing power parity.

On medicine, Cuba has almost the highest life expectancy rating in the region, and its AIDS education program has lessened the impact to 1/6 of the US cases, per capita, and provides generic anti-retroviral drugs for the people.

As for the poverty,it is incredibly difficult to measure poverty in a capitalist system against poverty in a non-capitalist system. Most of the measures we use in the US stem from the goods-basket concept, which, frankly, doesn't apply, since all those goods are provided free by the government. EDIT: That being said, Cuba's population has less than 1% under the poverty line, and honestly, it doesn't really matter if you don't 'trust' them, because there aren't any alternatives sans anecdotes.

As far as the medicine shortage goes, again, please source that, because I didn't see any post regarding that. I saw a National Review editorial saying that it was bad, but providing no sources, and another editorial anecdote in the News Corp-owned WSJ. Again, there were no sources. I also did not find a name of the hospital, staff, town, district, or really any identifcation other than the fact that it could have been near Havana, but even that's a stretch because it just said that's why they were there in the first place, not whether the incident happened there.

In short, while it obviously falls under the purview of newspaper sourcing, none of the facts have been checked on(a la editorial pieces) and there is no identifier to even tie the situation he posits to a town, much less a hospital.

Anyway, my point is this. You posted two links to different editorials giving anecdotes as supporting evidence, and I have international sources. You aren't going to concede, and I'm certainly not, so I think this whole thing is pretty much over.

NOW: to the topic the thread was created for, I once again have to point out the the Culture novels by Iain M. Banks are a pretty good communist society, falling under both common definitions of socialism(colloquial and Marx's theory of history).

EDIT: I'm absolutely terrible at quoting