Why is health care a business?

[Fartsniffage]

Also check China and Russia before. Russia was master planning its economy. It had all these magnificant infrastructure. But when the Soviet Union collapsed, too followed the funding for the infrastructure. And the economy was not improved one little bit. The only time that the economy improved was when the tax rates dropped.

What the fuck does that have to do with modern western universal healthcare systems?

[Sibirsky]

I don't care how it came into existence. I want to see a source for one.

Which are you asking for? "efficient" in the sense of efficiency, or "efficient" as in it actually works successfully?

Anything you can provide. Maybe both, or is that not possible?

[Sibirsky]

Allowing insurers to compete across state line, tax incentives for the self insured, HSAs, removal of mandates. Evidence is the affordability of other goods and services of good quality that are provided by businesses competing in a free market.

By that same token, I could use the many other State-run institutions as evidence in favour of universal healthcare.

Name one.

[Chrobalta]

Whatever. Go read a book on economics, and how planned economies have learned.

The minimum level of service for the maximum charge the market will stand?

I'm not sure I would want healthcare run on those lines.

This.

Corporations are required to care about their bottom line. The state isn't.

[Greed and Death]

Also check China and Russia before. Russia was master planning its economy. It had all these magnificant infrastructure. But when the Soviet Union collapsed, too followed the funding for the infrastructure. And the economy was not improved one little bit. The only time that the economy improved was when the tax rates dropped.

What the fuck does that have to do with modern western universal healthcare systems?

In Soviet Russia You provide medical services to the doctor.

[Sungai Pusat]

Also check China and Russia before. Russia was master planning its economy. It had all these magnificant infrastructure. But when the Soviet Union collapsed, too followed the funding for the infrastructure. And the economy was not improved one little bit. The only time that the economy improved was when the tax rates dropped.

What the fuck does that have to do with modern western universal healthcare systems?

Because Russia and China used the same system that universal healthcare in the west does: Socialism. China's doing better to rid itself of Socialism, but Russia's not doing so great on it.

[Sibirsky]

Allowing insurers to compete across state line, tax incentives for the self insured, HSAs, removal of mandates. Evidence is the affordability of other goods and services of good quality that are provided by businesses competing in a free market.

Yea they would race to the state with the least regulation. Better coverage.

They would cover anybody. In any state. And there would be plenty of them. Not 2 per state that control 78% of the market.

[Wamitoria]

By that same token, I could use the many other State-run institutions as evidence in favour of universal healthcare.

Name one.

The Military. The Fire Departments.

[Sibirsky]

Not a free market system.

Source for a free market system perfoming better than Universal Healthcare systems?

Any good or service being provided in a free market system.

[Chrobalta]

They would cover anybody. In any state. And there would be plenty of them. Not 2 per state that control 78% of the market.

Why would their be plenty? In a functioning market, there are winners and losers.

[Fartsniffage]

Because Russia and China used the same system that universal healthcare in the west does: Socialism. China's doing better to rid itself of Socialism, but Russia's not doing so great on it.

And they are rich first world nations?

[Trippoli]

Source for a free market system perfoming better than Universal Healthcare systems?

Any good or service being provided in a free market system.

That's not a source.

[Washington Democrats]

Which are you asking for? "efficient" in the sense of efficiency, or "efficient" as in it actually works successfully?

Anything you can provide. Maybe both, or is that not possible?

Its Politics. What goes in never comes out as youd like it. Just dismissing all government programs on that fact gets us nowhere, and doesn't fix a need.

[Sibirsky]

Well, apart from the teeth. We'll let have the private sector have them. Y'know, throw them a bone to keep them happy.

I'd rather not. My father is threatened to be taken to court over a couple dental check up he was late on getting paid.

Although my father is to be blamed for not being able to afford it, It would be alot better off it it was a free service in the first place.

So you support slavery? You support the dentist working on your father's teeth for free. You also support the manufacturers of the dentist's equipment to be slaves, so the dentist has something to use when working on teeth.

[Wamitoria]

Because Russia and China used the same system that universal healthcare in the west does: Socialism. China's doing better to rid itself of Socialism, but Russia's not doing so great on it.

Sweden, the UK, Germany, and Japan all have universal healthcare. Does that make them socialist states?

[Sibirsky]

What coverage? He doesn't want insurance.

By not getting insurance I will be denied the insurance I do not want apparently .

Well I'll be damned.

[Trippoli]

I'd rather not. My father is threatened to be taken to court over a couple dental check up he was late on getting paid.

Although my father is to be blamed for not being able to afford it, It would be alot better off it it was a free service in the first place.

So you support slavery? You support the dentist working on your father's teeth for free. You also support the manufacturers of the dentist's equipment to be slaves, so the dentist has something to use when working on teeth.

I'm leaving.

[Helertia]

Sorry, quick question - When you say affordable, what and for who exactly do you mean?

For the overwhelming majority of people. Everyone eats, everyone has clothes and shelter. Yes, we do have shelters, section 8 housing, and soup kitchens. There are better ways to provide for the very poor. But more people would be able to afford their own coverage. Ideally catastrophic coverage coupled with HSAs, but I don't see why comprehensive coverage would not be available.

So the average $6,328 for family is cheaper than Universal Healthcares tax rises?

[Sibirsky]

Whatever. Go read a book on economics, and how planned economies have learned.

for the second time...
Erm, when you say affordable, who do you mean for, and what exactly do you mean by affordable?

For the overwhelming majority of people. There will be a few genuinely poor that would not be able to afford it no matter how much it costs. They will be taken care of by non-profits.

[Chrobalta]

So you support slavery? You support the dentist working on your father's teeth for free. You also support the manufacturers of the dentist's equipment to be slaves, so the dentist has something to use when working on teeth.

Strawman much?

I think it is pretty obvious he meant that the state should pick up the tab. Not that dentists should be forced to work without being compensated themselves.

[Sibirsky]

Sweet!

Not for the individual, just plenty for businesses to deny coverage.
So buying insurance now si sort of like being a lamb lead to the slaughter.

I just don't want to be forced to buy something. I have insurance at the moment, but anything can happen.

[Greed and Death]

For the overwhelming majority of people. Everyone eats, everyone has clothes and shelter. Yes, we do have shelters, section 8 housing, and soup kitchens. There are better ways to provide for the very poor. But more people would be able to afford their own coverage. Ideally catastrophic coverage coupled with HSAs, but I don't see why comprehensive coverage would not be available.

So the average $6,328 for family is cheaper than Universal Healthcares tax rises?

Depends on how much you make.
the UK their tax comes to 11% per person. So anyone making over 58,000 pays more in taxes.

[Wamitoria]

Name one.

The Military. The Fire Departments.

Re-posted because it was ignored.

[Sibirsky]

Whatever. Go read a book on economics, and how planned economies have learned.

Also check China and Russia before. Russia was master planning its economy. It had all these magnificant infrastructure. But when the Soviet Union collapsed, too followed the funding for the infrastructure. And the economy was not improved one little bit. The only time that the economy improved was when the tax rates dropped.

Soviet infrastructure was a joke.

[Sibirsky]

Whatever. Go read a book on economics, and how planned economies have learned.

The minimum level of service for the maximum charge the market will stand?

I'm not sure I would want healthcare run on those lines.

Yet that's what creates the best products. Competition drives quality up, and prices down.