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How much should I pay? What is fair?

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Mystic Skeptic
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How much should I pay? What is fair?

Postby Mystic Skeptic » Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:08 pm

I am starting a new business. It is a relatively new service. I have hired a young person to work for me full time. She is in charge of introducing this service to the community (including many community leaders),finding new customers who need the service and handling the simpler cases. I will handle the ones needing more advanced help - as well as the existing cases I currently handle with my existing business (which is established and is a traditional industry).

I am paying her salary and benefits totaling about $42,000/yr. This business is in a very new direction which hasn't ever really been offered. We have planned it out and set a course, but there is no guarantee it will be successful. I have told her that if it is successful she will get incentive pay based on the success she has. If it is not successful I will shutter the program and find other work for her to do in my office.

So far it has been six months and it is very slow going. (Part of the problem is the frequent time off she has needed for worthwhile personal issues) I have invested around $50,000 total so far, including her salary.

I expect that, if it works, once she has this service rolling it will produce around $60,000 in revenues per year. The good news is that most of that will be recurring, meaning that the second year it will be roughly $120,000. The third year $180,000, fourth year $240,000 etc. It isn't quite that elegant, but the illustration makes the point well enough.

Before I hired her I was earning $150,000/yr. Once (if) the revenues from her service pick up I will be paying her a bonus roughly equivalent to 10% of the revenues, including the recurring. She will also get baseline salary increases roughly equal to inflation, maybe slightly higher. If it goes well enough I plan to hire more people to do the same service, plus some assistants to help with paperwork and administrative tasks.

So, if you review the math, you can see that it will be around 18-24 months before expenses start to break even. Three to four years to recoup my losses, then finally profit.

I want to avoid the evil perception most people have of those who provide employment to others. My question is -considering the non-guaranteed nature of this endeavor - do you feel this compensation plan is fair to her and others I may hire if the service proves successful? If it is successful then in the future I will have (after expenses) a novel business which pays 25-50% of the revenues to me. DFo you think that is a fair end-goal?

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Postby Norstal » Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:13 pm

Mystic Skeptic wrote:I am paying her salary and benefits totaling about $42,000/yr. This business is in a very new direction which hasn't ever really been offered. We have planned it out and set a course, but there is no guarantee it will be successful. I have told her that if it is successful she will get incentive pay based on the success she has. If it is not successful I will shutter the program and find other work for her to do in my office.


$42k/year is too much for a sales rep (and yes its a sales rep based on your description). I'd start with something lower than that, maybe it'll motivate her. Keep her compensations, but just lower her salary.
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Mystic Skeptic
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Postby Mystic Skeptic » Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:17 pm

Norstal wrote:
Mystic Skeptic wrote:I am paying her salary and benefits totaling about $42,000/yr. This business is in a very new direction which hasn't ever really been offered. We have planned it out and set a course, but there is no guarantee it will be successful. I have told her that if it is successful she will get incentive pay based on the success she has. If it is not successful I will shutter the program and find other work for her to do in my office.


$42k/year is too much for a sales rep (and yes its a sales rep based on your description). I'd start with something lower than that, maybe it'll motivate her. Keep her compensations, but just lower her salary.


$42 is the total package, including her health insurance, social security, retirement contribution, etc.

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Knowlandia
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Postby Knowlandia » Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:25 pm

I think it's more than fair. I think she understands that this is a new business and you can't pay her alot yet. For a starting business this is very good. I know people who work for the state that make 30k.
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Postby EvilDarkMagicians » Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:26 pm

What is the average wage in the states?

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Postby Lordieth » Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:36 pm

How much time off is she having, or had so far? Do you have a holiday/leave agreement with her? Worthwhile causes are all well and good, but that's not what you're paying her for. A lot of time and dedication is needed to get a business off the ground. Remember, the majority of start-up business' fail, even with a good starting capital investment. Anything set aside for advertising?
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Postby Maurepas » Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:38 pm

EvilDarkMagicians wrote:What is the average wage in the states?

Probably alot lower than what's fair. I'd say the average cost of living.

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Postby EvilDarkMagicians » Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:43 pm

Maurepas wrote:
EvilDarkMagicians wrote:What is the average wage in the states?

Probably alot lower than what's fair. I'd say the average cost of living.


$41,334.97

Apparently. A bit higher than the British average.
Last edited by EvilDarkMagicians on Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mystic Skeptic
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Postby Mystic Skeptic » Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:25 pm

Maurepas wrote:
EvilDarkMagicians wrote:What is the average wage in the states?

Probably alot lower than what's fair. I'd say the average cost of living.



Considering this is a negative income endeavor for this time and may never be profitable - what would you call fair?


Lordieth wrote:How much time off is she having, or had so far? Do you have a holiday/leave agreement with her? Worthwhile causes are all well and good, but that's not what you're paying her for. A lot of time and dedication is needed to get a business off the ground. Remember, the majority of start-up business' fail, even with a good starting capital investment. Anything set aside for advertising?


She gets over 6 weeks/year vacation plus sick time and holidays. (I gave her credit for seniority with her prior employer) Her job is more involved than sales - but I can't go into it. There are substantial legal and administrative duties, but all liability falls on me, not her. She has no special skills, education, certification or otherwise. Her experience is unremarkable. The time off she took was to care for family with more than one member who has serious health issues - which won't be discussed here.
Last edited by Mystic Skeptic on Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Glorious Homeland
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Postby Glorious Homeland » Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:35 pm

Mystic Skeptic wrote:I am starting a new business. It is a relatively new service. I have hired a young person to work for me full time. She is in charge of introducing this service to the community (including many community leaders),finding new customers who need the service and handling the simpler cases. I will handle the ones needing more advanced help - as well as the existing cases I currently handle with my existing business (which is established and is a traditional industry).

I am paying her salary and benefits totaling about $42,000/yr. This business is in a very new direction which hasn't ever really been offered. We have planned it out and set a course, but there is no guarantee it will be successful. I have told her that if it is successful she will get incentive pay based on the success she has. If it is not successful I will shutter the program and find other work for her to do in my office.

So far it has been six months and it is very slow going. (Part of the problem is the frequent time off she has needed for worthwhile personal issues) I have invested around $50,000 total so far, including her salary.

I expect that, if it works, once she has this service rolling it will produce around $60,000 in revenues per year. The good news is that most of that will be recurring, meaning that the second year it will be roughly $120,000. The third year $180,000, fourth year $240,000 etc. It isn't quite that elegant, but the illustration makes the point well enough.

Before I hired her I was earning $150,000/yr. Once (if) the revenues from her service pick up I will be paying her a bonus roughly equivalent to 10% of the revenues, including the recurring. She will also get baseline salary increases roughly equal to inflation, maybe slightly higher. If it goes well enough I plan to hire more people to do the same service, plus some assistants to help with paperwork and administrative tasks.

So, if you review the math, you can see that it will be around 18-24 months before expenses start to break even. Three to four years to recoup my losses, then finally profit.

I want to avoid the evil perception most people have of those who provide employment to others. My question is -considering the non-guaranteed nature of this endeavor - do you feel this compensation plan is fair to her and others I may hire if the service proves successful? If it is successful then in the future I will have (after expenses) a novel business which pays 25-50% of the revenues to me. DFo you think that is a fair end-goal?

"young person?" If you mean graduate, then pay them minimum wage. If you mean slightly older... slightly above minimum wage. I'm a graduate, but that's what I'd do and expect for entry or low level work like sales rep or whatever. It's a junior position surely?

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Mystic Skeptic
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Postby Mystic Skeptic » Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:46 pm

I am particularly interested in hearing from union types, governemt workers and other people who oppose the "Bourgeoisi " status quo.
Last edited by Mystic Skeptic on Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Lackadaisical2 » Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:02 pm

I want to avoid the evil perception most people have of those who provide employment to others. My question is -considering the non-guaranteed nature of this endeavor - do you feel this compensation plan is fair to her and others I may hire if the service proves successful? If it is successful then in the future I will have (after expenses) a novel business which pays 25-50% of the revenues to me. DFo you think that is a fair end-goal?

Zomg ebil capitalist. ;)

Based on what you describe later on, it could be fair. Where do you live? 42,000 a year is a lot in Buffalo, but you probably couldn't afford rent somewhere decent in NYC (taking into account that 42k seems to include all her benefits, which while substantial don't put $ in her pockets).
Last edited by Lackadaisical2 on Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ashmoria » Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:10 pm

Mystic Skeptic wrote:
Norstal wrote:
Mystic Skeptic wrote:I am paying her salary and benefits totaling about $42,000/yr. This business is in a very new direction which hasn't ever really been offered. We have planned it out and set a course, but there is no guarantee it will be successful. I have told her that if it is successful she will get incentive pay based on the success she has. If it is not successful I will shutter the program and find other work for her to do in my office.


$42k/year is too much for a sales rep (and yes its a sales rep based on your description). I'd start with something lower than that, maybe it'll motivate her. Keep her compensations, but just lower her salary.


$42 is the total package, including her health insurance, social security, retirement contribution, etc.

how much salary then? the number that would be reported on her W-2.

if you allow her a reasonable amount of money for her level of experience and have a way for her to improve that sum, you have done right by her. "doing right" means allowing her enough of an opportunity to improve her lot that she wont go to a different job as soon as the economy improves.
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Jervak
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Postby Jervak » Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:12 pm

Hope it goes successful. If so, STOP BEING BOSS AND GIVE IT TO YOUR EXPLOITED WORKERS CAPPIE.

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Last edited by Jervak on Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Divair » Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:28 pm

And what exactly does this business do?

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Postby Caninope » Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:41 pm

Seems really good to me...
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Chrobalta
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Postby Chrobalta » Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:43 pm

$42k a year sounds fair to me.
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Rolling squid
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Postby Rolling squid » Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:51 pm

I'm assuming it's a living wage, (Ie you aren't hiring in new york or something) so it sounds fair.

EDIT: assuming you live in the United States, I'll take her job for the same benefits but 2k knocked off the salary. ;)
Last edited by Rolling squid on Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Maurepas » Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:57 pm

EvilDarkMagicians wrote:
Maurepas wrote:
EvilDarkMagicians wrote:What is the average wage in the states?

Probably alot lower than what's fair. I'd say the average cost of living.


$41,334.97

Apparently. A bit higher than the British average.

I want that wage, :(


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