Im now Athiest

[Great Nepal]

*snip of the OP*

Very well - I am not a Christan and I wont like to defend Christianity as I dont know much about it - but as I am moderately religious - I would rather be saying about religion in general... also I dont think religious book are to be taken literally - it must be adjusted to modern world. Moreover we must take the good parts while ignore some parts where it says things encouraging violence.... Also did you know religious people trend have less chance of mental illness than atheist....

Of course, you have a source for that.

Of course.... I DO have a source for that...

People who pray frequently are less likely to suffer from depression and anxiety, according to a study.

Also I found a next report while searching for that link saying that religions people trend to die less....

A study using data from the Women's Health Initiative found that women aged 50 and up were 20% less likely to die in any given year if they attended religious services weekly (15% reduction if they attended less than weekly) compared to those that never attend religious services. This analysis was controlled for age, ethnicity, income level and (most importantly) current health status.

Thank you. You might have included them in the first place and saved the trouble, but thanks anyway. Of course, none of this proves that the supernatural aspects of religion are at work, but that the structure of a religious outlook provides a certain amount of well-being. Nothing wrong with that. I myself don't see the point in believing something that can't be proven. I have plenty of peace of mind, too.

Actually, all the data shows is that certain behaviours might have certain correlation to certain results.

Example: if prayer links to reduced levels of depression (not saying it does - I think there's a massive problem with self-reporting possible there) that doesn't mean being religious has anything to do with it - I can pray, and I'm an atheist.

Example: if attending church can be shown to correlate with life expectancy, that stil ldoesn't mean anything about religion. At various times, I've attended church quite regularly and - as I said - I'm an atheist.


It's somewhat illogical to assume that 'prayer' or 'attending church' actually signify anything about being religious, which appears to be Nepal's claim.

Atheist: A person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Pray: To enter into spiritual communion with God or an object of worship through prayer.

God: The one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.

So how can a person who denies existence of a supreme being or beings pray?

[Skyrae]

Ok Bramborska, since I'm so ignorant, I'll just follow through on my plans of killing myself, thanks.

[Bramborska]

@Bram So who understands the Bible? Everyone came to their own conclusion. Is there one way I should understand the Bible?

What the Bible means to you is one thing, but there are fundamentals that you have to at least know the existence of. I'm not saying "this theologian is right" or "that theologian is wrong." What I'm saying is that you (at the very least) must know that their arguments/debates exist to have an educated opinion. If you haven't even heard of their names, for crying out loud, how the hell is anyone supposed to take your seriously?

[Ashmoria]

You realise there can be multiple points in one book. Why, if we look at the bible, is it not to be taken as a literal story? I don't know the whole book, but what good reason is there to take it metaphorically rather than literally?

because its not written as if it were a literal story about a guy who actually existed. its written as a "once upon a time there was this really cool guy named job" story.

Now we're getting somewhere. Could you quote an example of the type of thing that makes you think it's a fairy story? And that doesn't mean things that just seem odd, it means things that actually point to it being a fairy story.

he is unconnected to anyone else in the bible. there is no reason to discuss his long string of misfortune other than to discuss why bad things do sometimes happen to good people and what that means.

Maybe god just wanted to talk about Job. Maybe those things did happen and made a good lesson.

the problem of bad things happening to good people is not something that has just occurred to US. it has been a glaring problem since the beginning of humanity. once you posit a loving god who wants only good for us you immediately have problems with the sucky reality of life. do bad things happen to good people because they are secretly evil? is god punishing them? is he testing them? it he fucking with them?

Do you not think it could be because people start saying "this is bullshit" and if they leave your religion you have no control over them, therefore you have to invent reasons why things like this happen? And anyway, if the story is not literal, then why do bad things happen to good people?

turns out that its a part of running the universe that is beyond our understanding and if you dont like it, make your own fucking universe--or something like that.

which is better than the accusation that job's friends make which is that he must be being punished by god for some terrible thing he did in secret.

job 1,1 : 1 There was once a man in the land of Uz called Job: a sound and honest man who feared God and shunned evil.

and yeah, you do have to decide on what the reason is that bad things happen to good people. even within christianity that answer varies some, eh? calvinists might claim that its because you arent really one of god's chosen and that the bad things that happen to you are proof of it. some denominations insist that it is punishment for sins--a terrible answer in my opinion. the ancient greeks had gods that fucked with humanity such that bad things happened to good people because their gods were jerks.

those things dont really stand up to the reality that good and bad happen at random regardless of the quality of the people that it happens to. im not fond of any theology that ingore that reality.

[Person012345]

I'm happy to listen to theologians, but almost all of the "explanations" for contradictions etc. and how things are metaphorical have absolutely no basis in the bible seemingly. They appeared to be justified by "I don't want that to be true therefore it must be a metaphore.

Examples?

I can't think of specific examples now, it has been a while since I was being fed that stuff. I was made to go to church for a long time and they would use things from theologians, and too many of the explanations just seemed like texas sharpshooting or outright denial.

[Bramborska]

Ok Bramborska, since I'm so ignorant, I'll just follow through on my plans of killing myself, thanks.

You say it like you expect me to care.

[Ashmoria]

@Bram So who understands the Bible? Everyone came to their own conclusion. Is there one way I should understand the Bible?

What the Bible means to you is one thing, but there are fundamentals that you have to at least know the existence of. I'm not saying "this theologian is right" or "that theologian is wrong." What I'm saying is that you (at the very least) must know that their arguments/debates exist to have an educated opinion. If you haven't even heard of their names, for crying out loud, how the hell is anyone supposed to take your seriously?

yeah.

especially things like the epistles (that i never understand). unless you study up on what they are talking about, who they are addressed to, what the problems are that are being address, etc you cant possibly read them yourself and get the point.

[CIB EMPIRE]

I used to be christian but due to a debate with my friend whos athiest he showed me the true facts like how the bible contradicts itself like for example god supposedly gives us free will, well no thats not true considering the bible tells us to do things or else were going to go to hell which when I thought about it didnt sound like free will what so ever. Also God is supposedly merciful, well in the bible he killed all of the first born children in egypt because he was mad at the pharoah...tht doesnt sound merciful that sounds like a phsycopathic maniac I mean why not just kill the pharoah rather than kill
innocent children.

And as for 7 deadly sins

Pride- Pretty much goes along with the envy becausde god says hes the only true powerful god and there are no others who have his power.

Laziness- well god sits in heaven all day and watches people, its not like hes walking around earth spreading his name around or proving anything.

Greed- God supposedly made humans to worship him and him alone, he also supposedly made the whole universe for himself. Thats sounds like greed to me, I dont knwo about you NSG.

Wrath- He killed new born children and flooded the earth killing everyone supposedly, sounds like wrath.

And he fits into the other ones as well.

Then theres also the fact that who made god? The bible says he infinite which is impossible, he couldnt have just popped up randomly and started making everything. And also God is supposedly All knowing and knows our future and knows whats going to happen. Well then why did he make lucifer if he knew he was going to rebel when he made him. Why did god let hitler be born if he knew he was going to kill jews. Also why did god even make earth and humans to worship him if hes just going to take us back into heaven I mean thats just stupid. Also my friend brought up how theres 1000's of religons which were just made up by humans as a way of control or liek the greeks did a way to explain things they didnt understand. Like how anyone can just make up a religon and makes some rules in order to enforce it.

Also in the bible it says the Anti-Christ will be the one who trys to unite the people in the world, why the hell would a man whos trying to do good and unite everyone be the Anti-Christ, my opinion is the churchs dont want people to be organized they just want us to be stupid and go to church and give them money and listen to bullshit.


Also why is it a sin to have sex before marriage when were just doing what are bodys were designed to do, I mean the first humans didnt wait to get married before having sex, the male would just see a female and then bam have sex with her. Me and m friend had this discussion for like 3hrs and at first it was a debate but then soon it became a conversation and he helped me undertsand that basicly believeing in god is like how children believe in Santa. If your good you get rewarded if you dont then you dont get rewarded. We talked about other reasons to why god cant be real I just dont feel like typing all of them up and Im sorry if I offended anyone before when I made the "How can you not be christian forum" It was stupid of me to even believe in a imaginary guy so again Im sorry if I offended anyone on that forum about "How can you not be a christian"

eh, youll go back

[Ashmoria]

If God were all knowing, *he*'d know the perfect thing to do, thus this world and everything should be perfect, or God doesn't exist. Lets say this world is perfect... then what is Heaven, and what is Hell? Simple logic takes down something supposedly existing before time.
What annoys me the most about Christianity is that if I don't believe in God, I'm helping Satan. Sounds like a scare tactic to me.

Another person who has read none of the great theologians. Please, just glance over Thomas Aquinas, or at least limit your ignorance to an enigmatic silence.

Reading the Bible, and coming to your own conclusions, isn't the same as understanding the Bible.

Are you suggesting that instead of looking at the evidence and coming to our own conclusions we should just blindly follow what someone else tells us is the truth?

I'm happy to listen to theologians, but almost all of the "explanations" for contradictions etc. and how things are metaphorical have absolutely no basis in the bible seemingly. They appeared to be justified by "I don't want that to be true therefore it must be a metaphore.

the bible and theology are far too complicated to think that you can read the bible and understand it. you dont have to agree with any particular theologian but unless you study up on at least the bigboys of theology you have no real basis for disagreeing with anyone.

[Bramborska]

I'm happy to listen to theologians, but almost all of the "explanations" for contradictions etc. and how things are metaphorical have absolutely no basis in the bible seemingly. They appeared to be justified by "I don't want that to be true therefore it must be a metaphore.

Examples?

I can't think of specific examples now, it has been a while since I was being fed that stuff. I was made to go to church for a long time and they would use things from theologians, and too many of the explanations just seemed like texas sharpshooting or outright denial.

I'd have to agree. Pastors preach to the lowest common denominator. Going on about the significance of omitted-from-cannon disciples like Joanna, Susannah, and Tabitha and feminine apostles like Mary Magdalene (commissioned by Jesus himself in John 20), Prisca, and Junia; it doesn't get the congregation riveted. The Pastor, remember, is literally preaching to the choir.

[Tahere]

Balantania, I beg you to spell right.

[Haikuruu]

The basic fact:
People can chose what they want to believe in. No matter what.

I believe that as long as you are being a good person, you have the right to believe in anything or nothing at all. It doesn't make you a bad person if you don't believe in any sort of God. You are a regular human being like the rest of the billions of people in this world.

&& in my point of view doesn't the bible say something about not judging people? You are not a true christian if you can sit here and judge other people.

Think about it.

[Beantown Bruins]

What I don't understand is why most religious people get upset when you tell them you don't believe what they do. Why do they feel so threatened? I'm not telling them they can't go on believing. It's like they need validation or something. Just my two cents.

[Person012345]

What I don't understand is why most religious people get upset when you tell them you don't believe what they do. Why do they feel so threatened? I'm not telling them they can't go on believing. It's like they need validation or something. Just my two cents.

Christians try to become more like god all the time.

God is (according to the bible) a whiney, needy being constantly looking for validation and praise from humanity. When he doesn't get it he feels threatened and he responds violently.

[Bramborska]

What I don't understand is why most religious people get upset when you tell them you don't believe what they do. Why do they feel so threatened? I'm not telling them they can't go on believing. It's like they need validation or something. Just my two cents.

But isn't it an atheist whose going out for validation in this thread? I understand your point, just not in this context.

[Person012345]

What I don't understand is why most religious people get upset when you tell them you don't believe what they do. Why do they feel so threatened? I'm not telling them they can't go on believing. It's like they need validation or something. Just my two cents.

But isn't it an atheist whose going out for validation in this thread? I understand your point, just not in this context.

I don't get that from the OP. To me it seems like he thinks he's stumbled upon the revelation that christianity is not logical and has to spread the word.

[Bramborska]

What I don't understand is why most religious people get upset when you tell them you don't believe what they do. Why do they feel so threatened? I'm not telling them they can't go on believing. It's like they need validation or something. Just my two cents.

But isn't it an atheist whose going out for validation in this thread? I understand your point, just not in this context.

I don't get that from the OP. To me it seems like he thinks he's stumbled upon the revelation that christianity is not logical and has to spread the word.

"Spread the word" that Christianity is illogical to... NSG?

I would have thought that NSG already knew.

[Terishany]

There are ALOT of anti-religion people on Nation States, aren't there?
And I'm sorry you lost your faith. . .

[Xkx]

There are ALOT of anti-religion people on Nation States, aren't there?
And I'm sorry you lost your faith. . .

"if god really existed it would be necessary to abolish him" (like all tyrants).

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[Xeevok]

There are ALOT of anti-religion people on Nation States, aren't there?
And I'm sorry you lost your faith. . .

I would say that's a good thing

[Newivory]

There are ALOT of anti-religion people on Nation States, aren't there?
And I'm sorry you lost your faith. . .

I would say that's a good thing

I would say your wrong

[Buffett and Colbert]

Balantania, I beg you to spell right.

Tahere, I beg you use proper grammar.

[Person012345]

There are ALOT of anti-religion people on Nation States, aren't there?
And I'm sorry you lost your faith. . .

I would say that's a good thing

I would say your wrong

I would say it doesn't really matter.

[Buffett and Colbert]

There are ALOT of anti-religion people on Nation States, aren't there?
And I'm sorry you lost your faith. . .

I would say that's a good thing

I would say your wrong

I would say it doesn't really matter.

I would say... pretty much this. It's what you do with your faith that matters. Some faiths (or attitudes with non-faith) make it harder to live an enlightened life, but that doesn't mean you can't.

[Intestinal fluids]

Im not sure there is even a word describing my beliefs. I believe our senses are unable to perceive the truth and our frame of reference is such that we dont even know how to ask the right questions.

I believe we are no more capable of understanding our creation then a spider can be capable of understanding the rules of chess. A spider can be crawling on a chess set, and no spider in the history of spiders ever conceived it was a chess game and even less so there were rules to the game. It would simply never occur to the spider to ever think or wonder that. I believe the "truth" is much the same for us humans, something that wouldnt even occur to us ever,thats far beyond our limited powers of perception, even if we were climbing right on top of it.