US gasoline prices may finally adjust to a reasonable figure

[MisanthropicPopulism]

May? Are you high? Your "rural parts" would fit neatly into one of our medium-large states. We have at least two dozen states that size or larger.

The entirety of the UK would fit neatly into one of our medium large states. The point is 95% of the US is "rural." The number of cities with valid public transportation can probably be counted on one hand.

PS. We criss-crossed the US with rail in the late 19th, early 20th century. Then we were all like "fuck that shit" and all jumped in Hummers and drove around killing buffalo.

[Sdaeriji]

May? Are you high? Your "rural parts" would fit neatly into one of our medium-large states. We have at least two dozen states that size or larger.

The entirety of the UK would fit neatly into one of our medium large states. The point is 95% of the US is "rural." The number of cities with valid public transportation can probably be counted on one hand.

The entire UK would be the 12th largest state in the United States, just behind Michigan.

[MisanthropicPopulism]

May? Are you high? Your "rural parts" would fit neatly into one of our medium-large states. We have at least two dozen states that size or larger.

The entirety of the UK would fit neatly into one of our medium large states. The point is 95% of the US is "rural." The number of cities with valid public transportation can probably be counted on one hand.

The entire UK would be the 12th largest state in the United States, just behind Michigan.

Which mostly manages to make my point.

[Intangelon]

About time. Maybe that will force some changes, force us to actually build a decent nation-wide public transport network, as well as reviving the inner city trains.

You forget this is the US we are talking about.
When faced with a 7 dollar a gallon tax, The solution will be violence not, wait for next election.

True. So implement a gradual tax, say fifty cents/gallon a year, and use the revenues to build a national high speed rail system. Provide categorical grants to cities so they can build city-suburb rail systems. The point is, we as a country need to be weaned off oil and onto public transportation, and the only way I can see that happening is through higher fuel costs.

You honestly don't get how big our country is do you? Public transit does not work outside of densely populate areas. Ever.

No, I get it. But if we can crisscross it with highways, we can do the same with rail systems.

That took damn near 50 years to finish.

Not really. We only started building interstates after 1956, and finished 35 years after that. But as far as we're concerned, the inter city rail lines should be built last; what's really important are the city-suburbs lines, which will cut our demand for fuel drastically by removing all the commuters from the road.

I live 50 miles from the nearest interstate. Bad example.

But you can still drive there, have fun doing that with $7 gas. One of the interesting things about the US is the relatively small difference between rural and urban incomes- in part due to low gas prices. Thats why suburbs can be nice places to live as opposed to where Europe puts all the undesirables.

So we ditch the suburbs. They're unsustainable anyways.

From your lips to God's ears. I'd love to see that happen. The folly that was artificial-park-like living for the artificially-created middle-class was a huge waste of resources and time. Let those with trust funds live like that, and let the veil of greed-fueled ignorance be lifted from those conned into the American Dream -- so called because you had to be asleep to believe it.

[Sibirsky]

Note the gasoline prices for 3/22/10 (the last week the source had data for):
Belgium $7.18
France $6.98
Germany $7.12
Italy $7.06
Netherlands $7.68
UK $6.65
US $3.05
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/gas1.html


Oh no, the US may finally pay a price that reflects reality.

What say you, NSG?
(I suspect I know where this one will fall about. Try and surprise us posters.)

We are paying a price that reflects reality. The difference between US gas and European gas is.... nothing. The price difference is the enormous taxes on gas in Europe. It's not just gas. It would be all sorts of energy. Electricity bills would skyrocket. Jobs would be lost. It is bad legislation. Possibly Obama's worst.

[Sdaeriji]

May? Are you high? Your "rural parts" would fit neatly into one of our medium-large states. We have at least two dozen states that size or larger.

The entirety of the UK would fit neatly into one of our medium large states. The point is 95% of the US is "rural." The number of cities with valid public transportation can probably be counted on one hand.

The entire UK would be the 12th largest state in the United States, just behind Michigan.

Which mostly manages to make my point.

I know. I was backing up your point with concrete numbers.

[Sibirsky]

I can't afford $7 per gallon gas.

I doubt many people in the US can.

We do it fine, what's so different about the US?

Our cars and trucks have bigger engines and use more gas. For you to be fine, we'd have to convert to those midget mobiles. That, in itself is not cheap. Besides, I don't particularly want to be a Smart getting rear ended by a Hummer.

[Sibirsky]

Cheap gas is way more needed because of the way US infrastructure is set up.
I think we should design all legislation with that in mind, just like Obama is.
These accusations are ridiculous

What?

[Sibirsky]

We don't have a public transport system like those countries. If gas really got that high, I think there'd be violence tbh, hell, I'd consider joining it, that'd be it for me, I couldn't afford to make it to the city, that means no work, no food, no nothing, >_>

Exactly thus screwing tons of people who have to drive to cities in order to work. Excellent idea! Destroy the economy completely by making it impossible for the workers to go to work!

But we'll have green jobs! Don't you guys get it? It will be wonderful as our oil based economy will be based on green!

[Sibirsky]

I can't afford $7 per gallon gas.

I doubt many people in the US can.

We do it fine, what's so different about the US?

Currently, I pay $382.50/month for my share of the rent. If I need to fill up my truck every week (it has a 24 gallon tank), it will cost $168/week at $7/gallon. So I'd be paying $672/month for gas (or 1.76 times what I pay a month in rent). Those 2 bills wouldn't leave me with enough money for food, electricity, internet/phone, clothes, auto insurance, auto upkeep, etc (my monthly income is about $1362 right now). I actually have less bills than many other people, and I still couldn't afford $7/gallon.

Now, I've never traveled out of the US, maybe your overall cost of living is lower.

You want food too? Greedy American.

[Sibirsky]

About time. Maybe that will force some changes, force us to actually build a decent nation-wide public transport network, as well as reviving the inner city trains.

You forget this is the US we are talking about.
When faced with a 7 dollar a gallon tax, The solution will be violence not, wait for next election.

True. So implement a gradual tax, say fifty cents/gallon a year, and use the revenues to build a national high speed rail system. Provide categorical grants to cities so they can build city-suburb rail systems. The point is, we as a country need to be weaned off oil and onto public transportation, and the only way I can see that happening is through higher fuel costs.

And why not let it happen gradually, as oil runs out? Why must the government force feed us this green shit as a jobs bill?

[Person012345]

I can't afford $7 per gallon gas.

I doubt many people in the US can.

We do it fine, what's so different about the US?

Our cars and trucks have bigger engines and use more gas. For you to be fine, we'd have to convert to those midget mobiles. That, in itself is not cheap. Besides, I don't particularly want to be a Smart getting rear ended by a Hummer.

Actually, by simply converting to using diesel more you could save a shit load of emissions, and it does much better MPG. The figures given here for MPG were horrendous. If a car isn't doing 45mpg then that's not a good milage-to-the-gallon. That goes for estate cars, small cars, anything. My dad's extremely old £200 diesel escort estate does 46 mpg. That's in a "city", as opposed to cruising anywhere. You don't need to convert to tiny cars to have cars that do more than 12 mpg. That is just ridiculously wasteful.

[Intangelon]

I just fueled up today, it was 126 yen/l. (Around and about $5 per gal).

And before you guys say anything about how Japan has wonderful public transportation (It does), I live in rural Japan. The store we go to is 20 minutes down the road, my school is 30 minutes away (26 km, or about 16 miles). But, see, Japan believes in smaller cars with much better fuel standards than the US.

It can be done and it just MIGHT get people out of their gas guzzlers.

Agreed wholeheartedly. I spent five weeks near Kobe in 1990. I thought at the time that if the US had trains in the cities and main suburbs like Japan had trains, I'd sell my car when I landed back in Seattle.

Thing is, as right as you are about automobile efficiency, the American mindset is all about individuality. The Japanese are effectively bred to "take one for the team", whereas the US is all about "where's mine". All of us driving small cars, no matter how customizable they're made, will never fly here. I've lived in North Dakota. There's a whole lotta space there. When the next nearest town is a two-hour drive, Americans aren't going to elect to make it in a Smart Car, or the Japanese equivalent. We just aren't that greater-good conscious. We're almost unbearably (and certainly unsustainably) selfish as a nation, despite the occasional outpouring for this or that cause.

[Sibirsky]

Time to buy a hydrogen car.

More like plug-in electrical.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlTxGHn4sH4

[Sibirsky]

About time. Maybe that will force some changes, force us to actually build a decent nation-wide public transport network, as well as reviving the inner city trains.

You forget this is the US we are talking about.
When faced with a 7 dollar a gallon tax, The solution will be violence not, wait for next election.

True. So implement a gradual tax, say fifty cents/gallon a year, and use the revenues to build a national high speed rail system. Provide categorical grants to cities so they can build city-suburb rail systems. The point is, we as a country need to be weaned off oil and onto public transportation, and the only way I can see that happening is through higher fuel costs.

You honestly don't get how big our country is do you? Public transit does not work outside of densely populate areas. Ever.

No, I get it. But if we can crisscross it with highways, we can do the same with rail systems.

That took damn near 50 years to finish.

Not really. We only started building interstates after 1956, and finished 35 years after that. But as far as we're concerned, the inter city rail lines should be built last; what's really important are the city-suburbs lines, which will cut our demand for fuel drastically by removing all the commuters from the road.

I live 50 miles from the nearest interstate. Bad example.

But you can still drive there, have fun doing that with $7 gas. One of the interesting things about the US is the relatively small difference between rural and urban incomes- in part due to low gas prices. Thats why suburbs can be nice places to live as opposed to where Europe puts all the undesirables.

So we ditch the suburbs. They're unsustainable anyways.

I like the 'burbs.

[MisanthropicPopulism]

I can't afford $7 per gallon gas.

I doubt many people in the US can.

We do it fine, what's so different about the US?

Our cars and trucks have bigger engines and use more gas. For you to be fine, we'd have to convert to those midget mobiles. That, in itself is not cheap.

Or, you know, switch to diesel or better designed cars
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnews/20100618 ... eedahybrid

Besides, I don't particularly want to be a Smart getting rear ended by a Hummer.

I sincerely appreciate your ability to make one argument by combining two, diametrically opposed points.

[Sibirsky]

So we ditch the suburbs. They're unsustainable anyways.

And do what with the millions of people who live in them? Resettle them Stalin style?

No. Let the intelligent people come to the realization that their way of life is unsustainable, and let them move to the city. Hope the stupid ones follow.

So we ditch the suburbs. They're unsustainable anyways.

And do what with the millions of people who live in them? Resettle them Stalin style?

Can't we just expand bus networks to suburban America? Trams are expensive, and so are subways. Buses are the right answer.

Buses still burn gasoline. We need electric powered transportation.

Because electricity grows on trees.

[Wilgrove]

I can't afford $7 per gallon gas.

^^ This, $7 a gallon would kill the economy quicker than Jack the Ripper kills hookers.

[Sibirsky]

Planners know how to fix this. There simply ain't the money or the available land to do it (assuming a reintroduction of city-suburb trains)- the other option is to viciously curb urban sprawl, but I'm guessing people would hate that even more.

Enough planners. No planning the economy. You got a planner in office and he plans to force feed you his green agenda by raising energy prices.

[Wilgrove]

I can't afford $7 per gallon gas.

I doubt many people in the US can.

We do it fine, what's so different about the US?

We're not stuck on some tiny Island, we have thousands if not millions of square miles of land. Public Transit sucks in the USA so you can't exactly say "Well take the bus durr hurr!" Most people use their cars to travel to work in the USA, some people use their cars and trucks for work. $7 a gallon would most likely see a rise in other products such as food and beverages. If you want a sure fire way to kill the USA economy, set the gas prices at $7.00

[Wilgrove]

About time. Maybe that will force some changes, force us to actually build a decent nation-wide public transport network, as well as reviving the inner city trains.

So, how am I to transport the dogs? People actually pay me to pick up and drop off their dogs. I think people would have a problem with a herd of dogs on the subway.

[Sibirsky]

Why not go with the price they pay in africa, the middle east, or south/central america?

I've been to Colombia several times.

Its the same as in the USA, circa 3 bucks.

Venezuela has cheap gas. $0.12/gallon. It's subsidized of course.

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/ ... gasprices/

[Sibirsky]

I just fueled up today, it was 126 yen/l. (Around and about $5 per gal).

And before you guys say anything about how Japan has wonderful public transportation (It does), I live in rural Japan. The store we go to is 20 minutes down the road, my school is 30 minutes away (26 km, or about 16 miles). But, see, Japan believes in smaller cars with much better fuel standards than the US.

It can be done and it just MIGHT get people out of their gas guzzlers.

I can't afford the payments on my smaller, much better fuel standard car.

I can't afford $7/gallon gas on top of that.

Ya know, the amazing thing is, America did so before...

when was this?

Gas shortage. Notice how during the 70's when the Japanese cars took off American automakers (grudgingly) switched from making aircraft carriers into smaller cars?

The gas shortage is a myth. It was created by price controls. The actual amount of gasoline sold went down by only 2% iirc.

[Person012345]

I can't afford $7 per gallon gas.

I doubt many people in the US can.

We do it fine, what's so different about the US?

We're not stuck on some tiny Island, we have thousands if not millions of square miles of land. Public Transit sucks in the USA so you can't exactly say "Well take the bus durr hurr!" Most people use their cars to travel to work in the USA, some people use their cars and trucks for work. $7 a gallon would most likely see a rise in other products such as food and beverages. If you want a sure fire way to kill the USA economy, set the gas prices at $7.00

Did you consider the reason there is no public transport is because there is no demand? Did you consider this is because of low gas prices? Did you consider that if you raise gas prices you increase demand for public transport thus making it profitable and an attractive business proposition? So public transport grows and you have better public transport.

[Person012345]

About time. Maybe that will force some changes, force us to actually build a decent nation-wide public transport network, as well as reviving the inner city trains.

So, how am I to transport the dogs? People actually pay me to pick up and drop off their dogs. I think people would have a problem with a herd of dogs on the subway.

Charge people more, that's how it works.