On the terms "males" and "females..."

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Subject came up in another thread...

Nice is terrible. It's a placeholder word for the absence of personality.

People don't commit, either as deep friends or anything more, to someone who doesn't have more about them. It's one of the main reasons "nice guy syndrome" exists, this idea that you only have to be a vaguely polite non-entity and all the feeeeemales will be chasing you like you're the protag in a Lynx advert.

Emphasis mine. What other word should one use to describe that which applies to grown women and young girls alike?

...but it reminds me of other contexts in which similar issues pop up. For instance, in trans issues, the very words "males" and "females" are being shifted from their former anatomical definition and toward a vague, ambiguous "however they identify" notion, instead of creating new words for "however they identify." There hasn't been as much of a rush to create new words in their place designed to refer to all the anatomical distinctions.

Are people just trying to avoid addressing the effects of anatomy or something?

I wouldn't ask, except that trans notions of male and female could've been explained away as an attempt to stick it to the assholes imposing "bathroom bills" on everyone, and the taboo against the word "females" could've been explained away on its own as just guilt by association, not unlike with modern perceptions of the word "negro."

But when there is such a clear similarity between these otherwise distinct concepts, I can't help but think there's an overarching pattern of avoiding the subject of anatomy's effects, and I don't think it's wise to do so. It seems to be part and parcel of taking "gender-neutral" to irrational new levels, like when they apply "male gives birth" to someone who is still anatomically female. What's the endgame here? The denial of the effects anatomy and hormones have on people?

[Ther Sul Citzpacia]

Could be a bit of a hot potato this one- as sooner or later somebody will get all uppity about what someone's wrote or whatever.

I'll get the ball rolling with a trifle of useless information:-

I once bought a book called The grand panjandrum and other obscure words- the title escapes me but it was a collection of words and their meanings which the author thought were cute , obscure and possibly had a place in modernlanguage or something like that.

therein they put the word HIMER which could be used for either a male or a female- maybe you could play safe and put that if you couldn't refer to them how they wanted but wanted to avoid offence- as it gives a nod to their choices(which you've got to respect as it can't be easy or done casually_).

[Western-Ukraine]

It's unwise to change anything. It's the natural order of life for certain species to have only males and females. After all, we aren't earthworms or other vastly different species with a different methods of reproduction. So we shouldn't go around changing the terminology in an artificial manner to gratify radical sentiments.

[Diopolis]

Just call 'em males and females.

[Right wing humour squad]

Meh you have the right to refer to male and female however you want. Anatomy, traditional norms, gender. Basically whatever.

And just because someone wants you to use their definition doesn’t mean you have to.

[Dumb Ideologies]

If someone tells me they're transgender and they want to be referred to by any actually existing pronouns (he, she, they), then I'll do that and call them male or female. If they ask for a made up pronoun I won't associate with them because they're clearly a narcissist. I also oppose the movement for "self-definition" where you just declare yourself to be "x" and without any effort in presentation or showing any willingness to engage with the psychological and medical pathway everyone's meant to just go "sure, okay", simply because that's not how a society works.

Don't be a massive dick to those who are trying, don't enable super-snowflakes, don't agonise too much over words as there's much better things to be getting on with in life. I don't think it's massively complicated.

[Dogmeat]

The "feeeeemales" thing is really more mocking virginal incel types as being Ferengi-like in their dehumanization of the opposite sex, rather than a serious call to arms over word choice.

[Galloism]

The "feeeeemales" thing is really more mocking virginal incel types as being Ferengi-like in their dehumanization of the opposite sex, rather than a serious call to arms over word choice.

I knew I had heard really big unnecessary emphasis on "fe" spoken before, but I couldn't place it.

[Digital Planets]

I suggest we change male and female to hemans and femans.

[Dumb Ideologies]

The "feeeeemales" thing is really more mocking virginal incel types as being Ferengi-like in their dehumanization of the opposite sex, rather than a serious call to arms over word choice.

10 points to a very good boy.

[Petrasylvania]

The "feeeeemales" thing is really more mocking virginal incel types as being Ferengi-like in their dehumanization of the opposite sex, rather than a serious call to arms over word choice.

And a tiny if existent amount would actually find a problem with mandating female nudity.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

It's unwise to change anything. It's the natural order of life for certain species to have only males and females. After all, we aren't earthworms or other vastly different species with a different methods of reproduction. So we shouldn't go around changing the terminology in an artificial manner to gratify radical sentiments.

Agreed. Enough with this gender neutral pronouns, and fake genders being created on a whim.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Few things make me more sad than when people say “oh you’re not a female”

[Wallenburg]

The "feeeeemales" thing is really more mocking virginal incel types as being Ferengi-like in their dehumanization of the opposite sex, rather than a serious call to arms over word choice.

And a tiny if existent amount would actually find a problem with mandating female nudity.

https://youtu.be/Z4gtPUP5H6o?t=93

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

The "feeeeemales" thing is really more mocking virginal incel types as being Ferengi-like in their dehumanization of the opposite sex, rather than a serious call to arms over word choice.

That still doesn't address the question of what other word to then use to refer to grown women and young girls combined.

[Costa Fierro]

The "feeeeemales" thing is really more mocking virginal incel types as being Ferengi-like in their dehumanization of the opposite sex, rather than a serious call to arms over word choice.

That still doesn't address the question of what other word to then use to refer to grown women and young girls combined.

Females. If people get offended at your choice of words, that's on them, not you. You want to refer to adult females, use women. You want to refer to adolescent or juvenile females, use girls.

[New haven america]

The "feeeeemales" thing is really more mocking virginal incel types as being Ferengi-like in their dehumanization of the opposite sex, rather than a serious call to arms over word choice.

That still doesn't address the question of what other word to then use to refer to grown women and young girls combined.

No, the problem isn't with the word, but with the context of it,

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Few things make me more sad than when people say “oh you’re not a female”

Frankly, post-op trans people are virtually indistinguishable from cis females.

You look like a woman, then you're a woman to me.

[The Batorys]

Subject came up in another thread...

Emphasis mine. What other word should one use to describe that which applies to grown women and young girls alike?

...but it reminds me of other contexts in which similar issues pop up. For instance, in trans issues, the very words "males" and "females" are being shifted from their former anatomical definition and toward a vague, ambiguous "however they identify" notion, instead of creating new words for "however they identify." There hasn't been as much of a rush to create new words in their place designed to refer to all the anatomical distinctions.

Are people just trying to avoid addressing the effects of anatomy or something?

I wouldn't ask, except that trans notions of male and female could've been explained away as an attempt to stick it to the assholes imposing "bathroom bills" on everyone, and the taboo against the word "females" could've been explained away on its own as just guilt by association, not unlike with modern perceptions of the word "negro."

But when there is such a clear similarity between these otherwise distinct concepts, I can't help but think there's an overarching pattern of avoiding the subject of anatomy's effects, and I don't think it's wise to do so. It seems to be part and parcel of taking "gender-neutral" to irrational new levels, like when they apply "male gives birth" to someone who is still anatomically female. What's the endgame here? The denial of the effects anatomy and hormones have on people?

A lot of times when dudes refer to women as "females," they come off looking like this guy:

[Costa Fierro]

That still doesn't address the question of what other word to then use to refer to grown women and young girls combined.

No, the problem isn't with the word, but with the context of it,

Context, more often than not, is actually used as a justification for the offense people have.

Frankly, post-op trans people are virtually indistinguishable from cis females.

You look like a woman, then you're a woman to me.

It really depends on the person in question. I've seen people who are, as you say, indistinguishable from biological females (I find the term cisgender to be an abhorrent). I've seen people who look like men in drag. It entirely depends on the physical attributes of the person before they transitioned, and if the person had overly masculine attributes, that will still show after transitioning.

[New haven america]

Subject came up in another thread...


...but it reminds me of other contexts in which similar issues pop up. For instance, in trans issues, the very words "males" and "females" are being shifted from their former anatomical definition and toward a vague, ambiguous "however they identify" notion, instead of creating new words for "however they identify." There hasn't been as much of a rush to create new words in their place designed to refer to all the anatomical distinctions.

Are people just trying to avoid addressing the effects of anatomy or something?

I wouldn't ask, except that trans notions of male and female could've been explained away as an attempt to stick it to the assholes imposing "bathroom bills" on everyone, and the taboo against the word "females" could've been explained away on its own as just guilt by association, not unlike with modern perceptions of the word "negro."

But when there is such a clear similarity between these otherwise distinct concepts, I can't help but think there's an overarching pattern of avoiding the subject of anatomy's effects, and I don't think it's wise to do so. It seems to be part and parcel of taking "gender-neutral" to irrational new levels, like when they apply "male gives birth" to someone who is still anatomically female. What's the endgame here? The denial of the effects anatomy and hormones have on people?

A lot of times when dudes refer to women as "females," they come off looking like this guy:

I'm sorry, that is Lieutenant Junior Grade Nog, a Veteran of the Dominion War and the first Ferengi in Starfleet.

He will be treated with respect and reverance.

[Cetacea]

my native languiage has non gendered Pronouns - ie He/She, Him/Her and It all use the same term, which makes it really easy as it is a reference to person not gender and also means that the words for Male and Female are category terms.

So I suggest creating a new genderless Pronoun for person

[Kowani]

my native languiage has non gendered Pronouns - ie He/She, Him/Her and It all use the same term, which makes it really easy as it is a reference to person not gender and also means that the words for Male and Female are category terms.

So I suggest creating a new genderless Pronoun for person

If only languages worked that way...
Yeah, you've got situations like Portuguese, where we have actual, documented evidence of the king changing the language and standardizing it, but English doesn't have an equivalent to the Academie Française to mandate official linguistic changes down from above.

[Dogmeat]

The "feeeeemales" thing is really more mocking virginal incel types as being Ferengi-like in their dehumanization of the opposite sex, rather than a serious call to arms over word choice.

That still doesn't address the question of what other word to then use to refer to grown women and young girls combined.

Females. Just don't be cringy about it.

[Zanera]

A lot of times when dudes refer to women as "females," they come off looking like this guy:

I'm sorry, that is Lieutenant Junior Grade Nog, a Veteran of the Dominion War and the first Ferengi in Starfleet.

He will be treated with respect and reverance.

I agree, but there was a point in the show where that picture was pretty accurate, namely before he submitted to huemon culture.