Confucian Philosophy Discussion Thread

[Nouveau Yathrib]

You can certainly correct me on this one, but I don't think uncertainty avoidance is too important.

http://www.clearlycultural.com/geert-ho ... nce-index/

China actually has lower uncertainty avoidance than most Western nations, including the United States. Japan actually has very high uncertainty avoidance, while Singapore has the lowest uncertainty avoidance of any country on the list, which brings into question just how much Confucianism is related to uncertainty avoidance...

Places influenced by Confucianism (1 - 120):
Japan: 92; Korea 85; Taiwan 69; Mainland China 40; Hong Kong 29; Singapore 8

You forgot about Vietnam, which has an uncertainty avoidance value of 30. This source says that China has an uncertainty value of 30.

[Nioya]

I love Confucius' ethics of honesty and sincerity. But I really disagree with his ethics of family and obedience to elders.

[Lady Scylla]

It's an interesting study, but its rigourosity turns me away. I favour individual development and critical thinking, and Confucian philosophy seems to go against this.

[Arumdaum]

You can certainly correct me on this one, but I don't think uncertainty avoidance is too important.

http://www.clearlycultural.com/geert-ho ... nce-index/

China actually has lower uncertainty avoidance than most Western nations, including the United States. Japan actually has very high uncertainty avoidance, while Singapore has the lowest uncertainty avoidance of any country on the list, which brings into question just how much Confucianism is related to uncertainty avoidance...

Places influenced by Confucianism (1 - 120):
Japan: 92; Korea 85; Taiwan 69; Mainland China 40; Hong Kong 29; Singapore 8

You forgot about Vietnam, which has an uncertainty avoidance value of 30. This source says that China has an uncertainty value of 30.

Yeah, definitely forgot about Vietnam, whoops

Thanks

[Nouveau Yathrib]

I've always been fascinated by Confucianism and other Chinese philosophies, if only because they are very significant yet seldom get any attention in Western academic circles.

Not sure I'd like to live in a Confucian society, though.

No you probably wouldn't. Korea seems to be the most Confucianist East Asian culture- more so than China, Japan, and Vietnam. This has been implicated in the relative prevalence of Korean American women preferentially dating and marrying non-Asian men compared to other Asian-American ethnicities, since their culture is allegedly more Confucianist and places a greater emphasis on traditional gender roles.

Source

[Impireacht]

Bleh. Confucianism is just a system of oppression masquerading as wisdom and morality... it pretty much filled the same role in the east that the Catholic church did in the West for so many years, forcing conformity through moral authority. It's somewhat interesting to read about, but it's not anything I'd ever want to see implemented anywhere.

[Hyggemata]

Bleh. Confucianism is just a system of oppression masquerading as wisdom and morality... it pretty much filled the same role in the east that the Catholic church did in the West for so many years, forcing conformity through moral authority. It's somewhat interesting to read about, but it's not anything I'd ever want to see implemented anywhere.

Confucianism is a great body of academic discourse and quotidian practice that isn't very well represented by Confucius' own ideas. Much of the restrictions come from later generations of philosophers who liked nothing more than to criticize contemporary society and arbitrarily apply Confucius' statements.

[Arumdaum]

I've always been fascinated by Confucianism and other Chinese philosophies, if only because they are very significant yet seldom get any attention in Western academic circles.

Not sure I'd like to live in a Confucian society, though.

No you probably wouldn't. Korea seems to be the most Confucianist East Asian culture- more so than China, Japan, and Vietnam. This has been implicated in the relative prevalence of Korean American women preferentially dating and marrying non-Asian men compared to other Asian-American ethnicities, since their culture is allegedly more Confucianist and places a greater emphasis on traditional gender roles.

Source

Outmarriage rates among Asian-Americans is significantly more complicated than that, and are actually mainly based upon other factors such as location, the area in which one was raised, the view of Asians within American society, connection to their ancestral culture, etc.

Note, for example, that Japanese-Americans are more likely to live in a place like Hawaii, where is one much more likely to socialize with other Asians.

Outmarriage rates used to be much higher for Asian-Americans, but have been declining significantly for various reasons. This reflects the fact that more Asian-Americans are now present in the US, meaning that more of the people they know now are Asian (as opposed to being one of the only Asians around in a sea of white people, which is often the case for say, Asian-Americans in the Midwest), decreased prevalence of war brides, and so on.

Asian-Americans marrying other Asian-Americans (though not their own ethnicity) as a percentage has increased dramatically, but if you're going to assume Koreans outmarry due to an oppressive culture, this does not mean that every Asian culture became significantly less oppressive in a very short amount of time.

In the years between 2006 - 2010, US-raised Vietnamese-Americans became much more likely to outmarry, but this does not mean that the culture of Vietnamese-Americans became notably more oppressive toward women during that time.

While Korea has been heavily influenced by Confucian culture, I don't see why you would think that Korean culture places a greater emphasis on gender roles than the others.

[Nouveau Yathrib]

No you probably wouldn't. Korea seems to be the most Confucianist East Asian culture- more so than China, Japan, and Vietnam. This has been implicated in the relative prevalence of Korean American women preferentially dating and marrying non-Asian men compared to other Asian-American ethnicities, since their culture is allegedly more Confucianist and places a greater emphasis on traditional gender roles.

Source

Outmarriage rates among Asian-Americans is significantly more complicated than that, and are actually mainly based upon other factors such as location, the area in which one was raised, the view of Asians within American society, connection to their ancestral culture, etc.

Note, for example, that Japanese-Americans are more likely to live in a place like Hawaii, where is one much more likely to socialize with other Asians.

Outmarriage rates used to be much higher for Asian-Americans, but have been declining significantly for various reasons. This reflects the fact that more Asian-Americans are now present in the US, meaning that more of the people they know now are Asian (as opposed to being one of the only Asians around in a sea of white people, which is often the case for say, Asian-Americans in the Midwest), decreased prevalence of war brides, and so on.

Asian-Americans marrying other Asian-Americans (though not their own ethnicity) as a percentage has increased dramatically, but if you're going to assume Koreans outmarry due to an oppressive culture, this does not mean that every Asian culture became significantly less oppressive in a very short amount of time.

In the years between 2006 - 2010, US-raised Vietnamese-Americans became much more likely to outmarry, but this does not mean that the culture of Vietnamese-Americans became notably more oppressive toward women during that time.

While Korea has been heavily influenced by Confucian culture, I don't see why you would think that Korean culture places a greater emphasis on gender roles than the others.

I don't personally believe that, it's something I've heard from other people. There might be other factors involved as well, like adoption by non-API families.

[Yugoslav Memes]

It's an interesting study, but its rigourosity turns me away. I favour individual development and critical thinking, and Confucian philosophy seems to go against this.

>every individual is capable of critical thinking

[Nouveau Yathrib]

Outmarriage rates among Asian-Americans is significantly more complicated than that, and are actually mainly based upon other factors such as location, the area in which one was raised, the view of Asians within American society, connection to their ancestral culture, etc.

Note, for example, that Japanese-Americans are more likely to live in a place like Hawaii, where is one much more likely to socialize with other Asians.

Outmarriage rates used to be much higher for Asian-Americans, but have been declining significantly for various reasons. This reflects the fact that more Asian-Americans are now present in the US, meaning that more of the people they know now are Asian (as opposed to being one of the only Asians around in a sea of white people, which is often the case for say, Asian-Americans in the Midwest), decreased prevalence of war brides, and so on.

Asian-Americans marrying other Asian-Americans (though not their own ethnicity) as a percentage has increased dramatically, but if you're going to assume Koreans outmarry due to an oppressive culture, this does not mean that every Asian culture became significantly less oppressive in a very short amount of time.

In the years between 2006 - 2010, US-raised Vietnamese-Americans became much more likely to outmarry, but this does not mean that the culture of Vietnamese-Americans became notably more oppressive toward women during that time.

While Korea has been heavily influenced by Confucian culture, I don't see why you would think that Korean culture places a greater emphasis on gender roles than the others.

Wanted to add something to this thread. There are still cultural and socioeconomic differences among the six main Asian American ethnic communities that influence their attitudes towards interracial/interethnic dating. The fact remains that US-raised Korean Americans of both genders are significantly more exogamous and are significantly more likely to marry white people than their ethnic Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, or even Filipino counterparts.

US-born Filipino Americans are probably more exogamous because Filipino culture is more similar to Western/Anglo culture than the Confucianist Japanese, Korean, Chinese, and Vietnamese cultures. I would expect Japanese Americans to be more open to interracial/interethnic dating because most of the present-day Japanese American community has roots in this country from before the 1965 Immigration Act, which is not true for any of the other subgroups. I want to attribute the high rate of interracial marriage among US-born Korean Americans to the prevalence of Korean babies being adopted by white families between the 1970s and 1990s, but I don't think that explains most of it.

Source.

The summary below lists those Asian ethnic groups that are most and least likely to have each kind of spouse, within the "USR + URS Only" model:

Men/Husbands -- Most / Least Likely to Have a(n) __ Wife:

Endogamous -- Most: Asian Indian / Least: Filipinos
Other Asian (Pan-Asian) -- Most: Chinese / Least: Asian Indians
White -- Most: Koreans / Least: Vietnamese
Black -- Most: Filipinos / Least: Chinese
Hispanic/Latino -- Most: Filipinos / Least: Chinese
Multiracial or Other -- Most: Filipinos / Least: Koreans

Women/Wives -- Most / Least Likely to Have a(n) __ Husband:

Endogamous -- Most: Asian Indians / Least: Korean
Other Asian (Pan-Asian) -- Most: Vietnamese / Least: Asian Indians
White -- Most: Korean / Least: Japanese
Black -- Most: Filipino / Least: Vietnamese
Hispanic/Latino -- Most: Filipino / Least: Asian Indians
Multiracial or Other -- Most: Filipinos / Least: Vietnamese

[Nioya]

What is the meaning of "the sage is not a vessel"?

[Infected Mushroom]

I've heard someone summarise the nuts and bolts of Confucianism as follows:

"Your Parents are God. Obey the Government, Be Humble, Know Your Place."

Not sure how accurate a summary this is, but it doesn't sound too bad. I kind of like it, although I am uncertain about the deification part.

[Sanctissima]

I'm a fan of filial piety and a few other parts of the philosophy.

That being said, as a whole, it's a bit too collectivist for my tastes. I prefer a nice balance between collectivism and individualism.