One China or Free Taiwan?

[Collatis]

In an ideal world the US would recognize the ROC as a sovereign nation, but we live in the real world where continuing the current strategy is the only realistic option.

[The Serbian Empire]

Recognize them but by the name Chinese Taipei. This idea came from the Little League World Series.

Edit: This option is highly likely to result in nuclear war however. The next best option is mentioned by me further down.

[Crockerland]

Keeping PRC as the sole legitimate representative of China will be far more useful. Particularly with issues like China's increasingly ambitious claims on certain pacific and Asiatic lands, or on the North Korean question. By recognizing the ROC, we will massively damage our relations with the PRC and possibly prevent a good solution to the issues I've listed.

They obviously don't give a fuck what the US thinks considering they've been helping the North Korean regime for decades; Maybe it's time we showed them that they can't fuck us over and expect us to appease them.

[New Chalcedon]

Keeping PRC as the sole legitimate representative of China will be far more useful. Particularly with issues like China's increasingly ambitious claims on certain pacific and Asiatic lands, or on the North Korean question. By recognizing the ROC, we will massively damage our relations with the PRC and possibly prevent a good solution to the issues I've listed.

I'm still up for unofficial relations with the ROC though.

I'm not sure much progress is being made on those issues as is - recognizing an independent Taiwan will massively damage relations, but I'm not sure that won't happen anyway as China keeps on throwing its weight around throughout Asia.

[Union of Despotistan]

I think Taiwan should only be recognized as a rebel province of China.

Keeping protecting Taiwan is just freezing in time a civil war that should be finished long ago.

Once Japan capitulated, Taiwan who was under its control since 1895, should have been given back to ROC and the Allies should not have put troops there, nor signed any protection pact. The civil war would have ended with one of the 2 sides losing and China finally reunited.

[The Serbian Empire]

Keeping PRC as the sole legitimate representative of China will be far more useful. Particularly with issues like China's increasingly ambitious claims on certain pacific and Asiatic lands, or on the North Korean question. By recognizing the ROC, we will massively damage our relations with the PRC and possibly prevent a good solution to the issues I've listed.

They obviously don't give a fuck what the US thinks considering they've been helping the North Korean regime for decades; Maybe it's time we showed them that they can't fuck us over and expect us to appease them.

There's been many attempts at appeasing rogue states. North Korea for example. No matter what one does, they'll continue their troublesome behavior.

[The Princes of the Universe]

I don't see either Beijing or Taipei as the legitimate ruler of China. That being said, so long as Beijing holds a nuclear arsenal, going out of the way to antagonise that government is a terrible idea.

[Thermodolia]

I think Taiwan should only be recognized as a rebel province of China.

Keeping protecting Taiwan is just freezing in time a civil war that should be finished long ago.

Once Japan capitulated, Taiwan who was under its control since 1895, should have been given back to ROC and the Allies should not have put troops there, nor signed any protection pact. The civil war would have ended with one of the 2 sides losing and China finally reunited.

Taiwan is under the control of the ROC not Japan or the allies.

At the time of the Chinese civil war the ROC controlled Taiwan.

[Thermodolia]

The ROC is the legal and legitimate government of all China. The PRC is an illegitimate rebel force. The USA should immediately recognize the ROC as the true government of China and pressure the UN into giving the ROC its seat back that the PRC stole.

The US should do the same with Korea, the ROK is the true government of all Korea.

[The Serbian Empire]

I don't see either Beijing or Taipei as the legitimate ruler of China. That being said, so long as Beijing holds a nuclear arsenal, going out of the way to antagonise that government is a terrible idea.

Beijing should know that attacking will have grave consequences with the US having a much larger nuclear arsenal.

[Thermodolia]

I don't see either Beijing or Taipei as the legitimate ruler of China. That being said, so long as Beijing holds a nuclear arsenal, going out of the way to antagonise that government is a terrible idea.

Beijing should know that attacking will have grave consequences with the US having a much larger nuclear arsenal.

Not to mention that Russia would be extremely pissed

[The Princes of the Universe]

I don't see either Beijing or Taipei as the legitimate ruler of China. That being said, so long as Beijing holds a nuclear arsenal, going out of the way to antagonise that government is a terrible idea.

Beijing should know that attacking will have grave consequences with the US having a much larger nuclear arsenal.

Nobody wins a nuclear war. Nobody.

[The Serbian Empire]

Beijing should know that attacking will have grave consequences with the US having a much larger nuclear arsenal.

Nobody wins a nuclear war. Nobody.

The best solution is an invasion of the non-recognized state on the behalf of China. There shouldn't be any land that isn't a part of a recognized country.

[Benuty]

The Republic of China is a sovereign nation regardless of whether or not it is recognized by the United States. It has been this way for decades, and to it's credit has an actual solid elements of democracy compared to when it was ruled under Chiang Kai Shek (which at best was a flawed democracy turned dictatorship).

[Benuty]

Nobody wins a nuclear war. Nobody.

The best solution is an invasion of the non-recognized state on the behalf of China. There shouldn't be any land that isn't a part of a recognized country.

Yes let us invade an island in which we give a considerable sum of weapons, and ammunition to. What could possibly go wrong?

[Benuty]

The ROC is the legal and legitimate government of all China. The PRC is an illegitimate rebel force. The USA should immediately recognize the ROC as the true government of China and pressure the UN into giving the ROC its seat back that the PRC stole.

The US should do the same with Korea, the ROK is the true government of all Korea.

I would have held your position years ago maybe, but it isn't like that. The ROC should be allowed to control Taiwan unimpeded without possible threat of an invasion by the blowhards of the PRC, but both China's need to back off on claiming one another.

[Benuty]

no

Taiwan is doing very well the way things are.

Except Taiwan isn't a country at all. The Republic of China most certainly is.

[Benuty]

Recognize them but by the name Chinese Taipei. This idea came from the Little League World Series.

That would effectively be a worthless gesture at best, and insulting to the Chinese on that island at worst. Basically just saying "oh all this democracy stuff you have been doing since the 1980s is illegitimate, and your government doesn't exist".

[Thermodolia]

The ROC is the legal and legitimate government of all China. The PRC is an illegitimate rebel force. The USA should immediately recognize the ROC as the true government of China and pressure the UN into giving the ROC its seat back that the PRC stole.

The US should do the same with Korea, the ROK is the true government of all Korea.

I would have held your position years ago maybe, but it isn't like that. The ROC should be allowed to control Taiwan unimpeded without possible threat of an invasion by the blowhards of the PRC, but both China's need to back off on claiming one another.

I'd settle for that.

[Benuty]

I don't see either Beijing or Taipei as the legitimate ruler of China. That being said, so long as Beijing holds a nuclear arsenal, going out of the way to antagonise that government is a terrible idea.

I don't really see any way the imperial family could ever truly come back into power. At least in the early years the Republic of China gave the last emperor a generous treaty allowing them to retain the forbidden city, their court, and their title (albeit as a symbolic title rather than one with any authority behind it). The false pretender Yuan Shikai practically ruined it though, and thus as a result things are tragically different.

[The Princes of the Universe]

Nobody wins a nuclear war. Nobody.

The best solution is an invasion of the non-recognized state on the behalf of China. There shouldn't be any land that isn't a part of a recognized country.

The actual best solution would be to place Jin Yuzhang on the throne where he belongs.

[Benuty]

The best solution is an invasion of the non-recognized state on the behalf of China. There shouldn't be any land that isn't a part of a recognized country.

The actual best solution would be to place Jin Yuzhang on the throne where he belongs.

One can hope, but it has been way too long for that. Unless by some mystery the population of both China's were whipped into a monarchist restoration frenzy.

[The Serbian Empire]

The best solution is an invasion of the non-recognized state on the behalf of China. There shouldn't be any land that isn't a part of a recognized country.

Yes let us invade an island in which we give a considerable sum of weapons, and ammunition to. What could possibly go wrong?

A lot could go wrong, but the PRC is sure to genocide the people on that Island once the Chinese have adequate naval power. They kill and imprison objectors to the PRC all the time.

[Benuty]

Yes let us invade an island in which we give a considerable sum of weapons, and ammunition to. What could possibly go wrong?

A lot could go wrong, but the PRC is sure to genocide the people on that Island once the Chinese have adequate naval power. They kill and imprison objectors to the PRC all the time.

Are you sure about that?

The PRC is not going to genocide a westernized island nation without it being leaked on the internet. Sure the PRC might not get punished, but you don't wipe out an entire island democracy that has the firepower to back itself up without resistance. Killing, and imprisoning objectors even amongst certain groups is different. Chinese muslims from Xinjiang don't claim they are an independent nation under Chinese occupation (Tibet maybe, but not here).

[New Chalcedon]

I think Taiwan should only be recognized as a rebel province of China.

Keeping protecting Taiwan is just freezing in time a civil war that should be finished long ago.

Once Japan capitulated, Taiwan who was under its control since 1895, should have been given back to ROC

It was. The ROC assumed control of Taiwan on the 25th of October, 1945.

and the Allies should not have put troops there, nor signed any protection pact.

Before the Sino-Soviet split, such an action would have been unthinkable - while MacArthur was recalled for considering the use of nukes against the Chinese Communists just two years earlier, there was no way America would have been prepared to effectively cede control of Taiwan to the Communists.

The civil war would have ended with one of the 2 sides losing and China finally reunited.

This is something that amuses me about the whole thing: Qing China only started giving a damn about Taiwan in 1885, barely 10 years before the Japanese took it from them. When first offered a map of Taiwan (a ceremony approximating a territorial claim), the Qing Emperor of the time (Kangxi) refused it, calling Taiwan "a ball of mud beyond the pale of civilization" and declared that Taiwan was "the size of a pellet; taking it is no gain; not taking it is no loss". The Qing had only taken it at all because the last of the Ming were using it (recently taken from the Dutch) as a holdout against the installation of the Qing regime. On top of all of that, while the Qing claimed ownership of the island eventually, they never directly administered more than half of it - leaving the rest to the Taiwanese Aborigines so long as the Taiwanese didn't attack them.

The Qing were merely the fourth in a line of colonists (Spanish, Dutch, Ming, Qing), each of whom took it by force from the last, but now China claims that Taiwan is somehow an integral part of the country! Incredible.