Is Islam Truly a religion of peace?

[Crockerland]

Because obviously, world-wide Islam is a monoculture.

Curiously enough, it has a much more consistent set of morals than the "Christian" occident nowadays, which has by large separated the everloving fuck out of church and state. Morals that are not necessarily the most tolerant. And what little drive there is to secularize Islam is absolutely eclipsed by the voices that insist that the way to do things is to drive it even further back into the fucking dark ages.

Islam in its form as it was in its prophet's time was a fucking problem. Islam in its current form is, or more appropriately has a fucking problem. Islam, for it to not be a problem in the future, needs to be secularized. There needs to be a fucking drive from within Islam to make clear to anyone who considers themselves a Muslim that persecuting unbelivers is not okay. That persecuting homosexuals is not okay. That persecuting people for extramarital relationships is not okay. That persecuting people for daring to leave the faith behind is not okay. That persecuting people for offenses of their fathers and forefathers, even if the West is currently well on its way to forget that, is still not okay.

Wanting Islam to make it clear that the beliefs Islam was founded on aren't okay is a completely ridiculous goal.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Because obviously, world-wide Islam is a monoculture.

Curiously enough, it has a much more consistent set of morals than the "Christian" occident nowadays, which has by large separated the everloving fuck out of church and state. Morals that are not necessarily the most tolerant. And what little drive there is to secularize Islam is absolutely eclipsed by the voices that insist that the way to do things is to drive it even further back into the fucking dark ages.

Islam in its form as it was in its prophet's time was a fucking problem. Islam in its current form is, or more appropriately has a fucking problem. Islam, for it to not be a problem in the future, needs to be secularized. There needs to be a fucking drive from within Islam to make clear to anyone who considers themselves a Muslim that persecuting unbelivers is not okay. That persecuting homosexuals is not okay. That persecuting people for extramarital relationships is not okay. That persecuting people for daring to leave the faith behind is not okay. That persecuting people for offenses of their fathers and forefathers, even if the West is currently well on its way to forget that, is still not okay.

Just holding ears shut and eyes closed does fuck all to solve the problem. It's still there, we're just pretending to not notice it.

Ok:
Persecution is haram.
Persecution for extramarital relations is haram.
Leaving the faith is between the apostate and Allah (SWT). There's no punishment for that.
Inherited punishment is not Islamic.
All of this is extremism and culture.
And secularizing Al-Islam is bid'ah.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Curiously enough, it has a much more consistent set of morals than the "Christian" occident nowadays, which has by large separated the everloving fuck out of church and state. Morals that are not necessarily the most tolerant. And what little drive there is to secularize Islam is absolutely eclipsed by the voices that insist that the way to do things is to drive it even further back into the fucking dark ages.

Islam in its form as it was in its prophet's time was a fucking problem. Islam in its current form is, or more appropriately has a fucking problem. Islam, for it to not be a problem in the future, needs to be secularized. There needs to be a fucking drive from within Islam to make clear to anyone who considers themselves a Muslim that persecuting unbelivers is not okay. That persecuting homosexuals is not okay. That persecuting people for extramarital relationships is not okay. That persecuting people for daring to leave the faith behind is not okay. That persecuting people for offenses of their fathers and forefathers, even if the West is currently well on its way to forget that, is still not okay.

Wanting Islam to make it clear that the beliefs Islam was founded on aren't okay is a completely ridiculous goal.

For an islamophobe who doesn't know Al-Islam, yes.

[Giovenith]

No. Does that mean we should treat every single individual member of it like they'll go insane at any minute? No. The reason Islam seems so violent right now, among other reasons, is because it's still in it's infant stage as a religion. Of the three Abrahamic faiths it is the newest, and when the other two were at the age that it currently rests they were largely going through a similarly violent phase. The debate around Islam is also one plagued by assumptions and misunderstandings:

"You criticized Islamic teachings, therefore you must want to hold all the normal people Muslims responsible and hate them and stuff!"
"You insisted #NotAllMuslims and said the Bible has genocide and stuff too, therefore you must want us to sit back and do nothing about terrorism!"

^95% of arguments right there.

The main point to take away I guess is that yes, Islam says and does some fucked up things, but it's not like it's unique in it's fucked-up-ness.

[Solorni]

It's important to differentiate the various sects and parts of Islam, as well as the different governments and motivations involved. There are fairly large differences between Sunni, Shia and Ibadi Islam. Then there are also big differences in the various regions that Islam occurs. For example, the nation in the world with the most Muslims is Indonesia and I think we can all agree that as far as countries go Indonesia is pretty darn peaceful. Compare that to the nation with the most Christians; the USA. The murder rate in the USA is 6 times as high as in Indonesia.

Of course there is obviously way more to the differences in murder rates that has nothing to do with religion. But that's just it, can we truly distill difference in rates of crime or warfare to religion? I think not and I think economics, stability and education among other policies are far more important. Clearly there are Muslim nations which are not violent in any way, so obviously the perceived issues are something else.

[Slavaryia]

Why is this even a thread?
Is the answer not obvious?

[Crockerland]

Wanting Islam to make it clear that the beliefs Islam was founded on aren't okay is a completely ridiculous goal.

For an islamophobe who doesn't know Al-Islam, yes.

Islamophobia is a fictional term used by fascists to demonize people they don't like for criticizing an extraordinary cruel ideology.

[Raizelia]

https://milo.yiannopoulos.net/2016/10/sweden-ban-christmas-lights/
https://milo.yiannopoulos.net/2016/10/g ... ic-chants/
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... to-canada/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuV1MBNoAYA

As someone who is a Democratic Socialist, you'd be suprised to learn that I do infact hate Islam, and I consider it to be a right wing religion. (Before any Republican get's triggered, When I say right wing religion I mean it as in the fact that it takes the horrible aspects of Right wing Politics)

In my view it isn't a religion of peace and the evidence I have for it you can find in the youtube channel I linked to a youtuber I watch. Now If you want me to explain why Islam isn't peaceful I will start now.

Islam tells it's subjects to force others to believe in the religion, And many non-muslim arabs who live in the middle-east and move to Europe or America move because of it, not to mention there was a porn star a while back (If I remember I believe she was not a muslim.) Who moved from a Muslim country to America where she would start doing her line of work. Isis somehow found out who she was and sent her a picture saying that she was next.

But, with that this brings me to another discussion, Non-muslim arabian immigrant. Islam can't allow a country to develop well because it doesn't support seperation of church in state, which I will get into later and It makes many of the Non-muslims/People that call themselves 'muslims' that can work leave and go to countries where they can work. And with this Immigration Muslim countries simply can't progress, aside from Turkey and even then the country recently had gotten a leader who does not believe in seperation of church and state.

Now with non-seperation of Church and state. Islam does not allow it, neither did christanity in the past but that was only because of political views and not because of the bible it's self, with Islam even if a politician wants seperation of church and state the Muslim Population will not allow it as Islam does not allow them to.

And Finally for my final statement I'm going to bring up the Crusades. While I don't particuarly agree with the atrocities that any side did the Knights who fought for christiantity in a way were morally higher as Muslims were the one who started the war, As their book tells them to go to war with their neighbors and betray those who are weak.

That will be my final point, If anyone wishes to bring another point up or an opinion feel free to comment on this thread.

Do note that I am not a Muslim and what I have posted here is merely to stand up for justice, do what I think is right and do this world a favor by liberating it from ignorant dig-dongs.

Are you an idiot or something? You expect people to actually believe or join in on your bullshitting when you haven't even:

1. Cited an authoritative source
2. Include actual proof from their holy texts
3. OR at cite CORRECT examples form history

Allow me to present my own convictions in order to set your mind aright

1. The name itself.

The root word for it's name itself came from the Arabic word " سلام " which means peace. The word Islam means " to surrender " or in this context to surrender ones self to god. so let me ask you a question. How can a religion which names itself peace or " to surrender " be a religion of war, violence or terror as you have claimed? If they really were, why don't they just name themselves " ظلم ", oppress?

2. NOT forcing others to embrace

Opposite of what you have claimed. The religion does not allow its followers to force others to embrace Islam and even condemns the act itself. Citing the Qur'an:

لَا إكْرَاه فِي الدِّين قَدْ تَبَيَّنَ الرُّشْد مِنْ الْغَيّ
There is no compulsion in religion
(2:256)

Now, explain to me, IF your claims are true or not baseless, why would the followers of a religion, disobey their own holy text? Or are you going to claim that they have another secret holy text that we do not know of? Or that the religion enjoins its followers to go against the words of their own God?

3. Peaceful means

You claim that Through History, the Muslims were proven to be violent. I beg to differ. Now according to ACTUAL history the prophet or leader or founder of Islam ( however you like to call it ) is actually someone who will always try to resort to peaceful means first, unless he is forced to. One good example is the events of the opening of Mecca, or as the Msulims like to callit, Fath-Ul Makkah. refer to this

http://islamichistory.org/category/the-opening-of-mecca/

Do explain to me WHY would the followers of a terrorist religion would not even shed the blood of their oppressors, those whom had tortured them for over 10 years, the pagans of Mecca, after they've had conquered or liberated the city?

Plus, you even claimed that the Muslims started the crusade. Which they did not. Refer to this

https://www.usna.edu/Users/history/abels/hh315/crusades_timeline.htm

according to them, it was apparent that it was the Christians who started the "so-called" "holy war". Or is it wrong?

4. Wrong facts about the separation of church and state

You claim that history has proven that if we don't separate the church and state it will result in an unprogressive nation. Well that's true. For the Christians that is. While the history of Islam, has proven otherwise. Just take 5 of the most well-known Islamic empires for example ( The Safavid Empire (1501 to 1736), The Mughal Empire (1526 to 1857), Umayyad Caliphate (661-750), Abbasid Caliphate (750 to 1258), Ottoman Empire (1299 to 1922) ) all of them did not separate the church from state and guess what? All turned to be pretty succesfull and even became the center for knowledge and advancement of their times.

Plus, you do realize that withour some of the great minds from the golden age of Islam (eg: Alhazen, Avicenna, Algoritmi, etc... ) had mdeep influence over the later academic world? In fact, without them, Europe would have never gone into a Renaissance and would forever be stuck in the dark ages? In fact, their studies still left a deep impact in present day academic knowledge. For example, Algoritmi or his real name Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī. He found an important area of scientific knowledge known as algorithm. You want to know something cool about this? Without algorithms, you wouldn't be bullshitting on the forums nor will you even be using a computer for that matter. To put it simply, without algorithms, there wouldn't be any computers.

5. Facts about terrorism

I believe that you are convinced that Islam is not a peaceful religion because you have seen, read or heard about some acts of terrorism which uses its name in recent years. Yes, I agree with you, there are certain people from its followers which uses its name to induce terror but, guess what? they're only a TINY fraction of the followers. Most of them are relatively peaceful people. Did you know that, according to Pew Research Center, there are 1 BILLION ++ followers of Islam? and those who commit the acts of terror only amount only about 0.006625% of their population?

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/06/07/worlds-muslim-population-more-widespread-than-you-might-think/

Plus, I would like to argue, if the act of merely a fraction of the individuals represent the will of the entire populace, then wouldn't that make the whole of America terrorist? This id referencing the invasion that the USA made on Iraq. THEY claimed that Iraq possessed WMD's, so they bombed and attacked and infiltrated the Muslim country for FOUR YEARS, FOUR LONG YEARS. Millions of innocent people died. But in the end, the USA did withdraw their forces but did you know what they said? " Oh, we couldn't find them. Sorry. " I'm not going to forget to mention that according to the FBI,

https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005

most terrorists attacks from the years 1980 - 2005 were made by NON-Muslims. So, should I call every non-Muslim on this planet, including myself, a terrorist?
Also, read this

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/omar-alnatour/muslims-are-not-terrorist_b_8718000.html

If you still believe that you are right after my arguments then, feel free to do so. But, before that, do watch this youtube video from start to finish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy9tNyp03M0

[Kubumba Tribe]

For an islamophobe who doesn't know Al-Islam, yes.

Islamophobia is a fictional term used by fascists to demonize people they don't like for criticizing an extraordinary cruel ideology.

^This sentence is used so that islamophobes can say false, sometimes dangerous BS about us Muslims, causing hate crimes.

[Kubumba Tribe]

It's important to differentiate the various sects and parts of Islam, as well as the different governments and motivations involved. There are fairly large differences between Sunni, Shia and Ibadi Islam.

Sects are sin.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

For an islamophobe who doesn't know Al-Islam, yes.

Islamophobia is a fictional term used by fascists to demonize people they don't like for criticizing an extraordinary cruel ideology.

Fascists?

[Free Rhenish States]

https://milo.yiannopoulos.net/2016/10/sweden-ban-christmas-lights/
https://milo.yiannopoulos.net/2016/10/g ... ic-chants/
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... to-canada/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuV1MBNoAYA

As someone who is a Democratic Socialist, you'd be suprised to learn that I do infact hate Islam, and I consider it to be a right wing religion. (Before any Republican get's triggered, When I say right wing religion I mean it as in the fact that it takes the horrible aspects of Right wing Politics)

In my view it isn't a religion of peace and the evidence I have for it you can find in the youtube channel I linked to a youtuber I watch. Now If you want me to explain why Islam isn't peaceful I will start now.

Islam tells it's subjects to force others to believe in the religion, And many non-muslim arabs who live in the middle-east and move to Europe or America move because of it, not to mention there was a porn star a while back (If I remember I believe she was not a muslim.) Who moved from a Muslim country to America where she would start doing her line of work. Isis somehow found out who she was and sent her a picture saying that she was next.

But, with that this brings me to another discussion, Non-muslim arabian immigrant. Islam can't allow a country to develop well because it doesn't support seperation of church in state, which I will get into later and It makes many of the Non-muslims/People that call themselves 'muslims' that can work leave and go to countries where they can work. And with this Immigration Muslim countries simply can't progress, aside from Turkey and even then the country recently had gotten a leader who does not believe in seperation of church and state.

Now with non-seperation of Church and state. Islam does not allow it, neither did christanity in the past but that was only because of political views and not because of the bible it's self, with Islam even if a politician wants seperation of church and state the Muslim Population will not allow it as Islam does not allow them to.

And Finally for my final statement I'm going to bring up the Crusades. While I don't particuarly agree with the atrocities that any side did the Knights who fought for christiantity in a way were morally higher as Muslims were the one who started the war, As their book tells them to go to war with their neighbors and betray those who are weak.

That will be my final point, If anyone wishes to bring another point up or an opinion feel free to comment on this thread.

Do note that I am not a Muslim and what I have posted here is merely to stand up for justice, do what I think is right and do this world a favor by liberating it from ignorant dig-dongs.

Are you an idiot or something? You expect people to actually believe or join in on your bullshitting when you haven't even:

1. Cited an authoritative source
2. Include actual proof from their holy texts
3. OR at cite CORRECT examples form history

Allow me to present my own convictions in order to set your mind aright

1. The name itself.

The root word for it's name itself came from the Arabic word " سلام " which means peace. The word Islam means " to surrender " or in this context to surrender ones self to god. so let me ask you a question. How can a religion which names itself peace or " to surrender " be a religion of war, violence or terror as you have claimed? If they really were, why don't they just name themselves " ظلم ", oppress?

2. NOT forcing others to embrace

Opposite of what you have claimed. The religion does not allow its followers to force others to embrace Islam and even condemns the act itself. Citing the Qur'an:

لَا إكْرَاه فِي الدِّين قَدْ تَبَيَّنَ الرُّشْد مِنْ الْغَيّ
There is no compulsion in religion
(2:256)

Now, explain to me, IF your claims are true or not baseless, why would the followers of a religion, disobey their own holy text? Or are you going to claim that they have another secret holy text that we do not know of? Or that the religion enjoins its followers to go against the words of their own God?

3. Peaceful means

You claim that Through History, the Muslims were proven to be violent. I beg to differ. Now according to ACTUAL history the prophet or leader or founder of Islam ( however you like to call it ) is actually someone who will always try to resort to peaceful means first, unless he is forced to. One good example is the events of the opening of Mecca, or as the Msulims like to callit, Fath-Ul Makkah. refer to this

http://islamichistory.org/category/the-opening-of-mecca/

Do explain to me WHY would the followers of a terrorist religion would not even shed the blood of their oppressors, those whom had tortured them for over 10 years, the pagans of Mecca, after they've had conquered or liberated the city?

Plus, you even claimed that the Muslims started the crusade. Which they did not. Refer to this

https://www.usna.edu/Users/history/abels/hh315/crusades_timeline.htm

according to them, it was apparent that it was the Christians who started the "so-called" "holy war". Or is it wrong?

4. Wrong facts about the separation of church and state

You claim that history has proven that if we don't separate the church and state it will result in an unprogressive nation. Well that's true. For the Christians that is. While the history of Islam, has proven otherwise. Just take 5 of the most well-known Islamic empires for example ( The Safavid Empire (1501 to 1736), The Mughal Empire (1526 to 1857), Umayyad Caliphate (661-750), Abbasid Caliphate (750 to 1258), Ottoman Empire (1299 to 1922) ) all of them did not separate the church from state and guess what? All turned to be pretty succesfull and even became the center for knowledge and advancement of their times.

Plus, you do realize that withour some of the great minds from the golden age of Islam (eg: Alhazen, Avicenna, Algoritmi, etc... ) had mdeep influence over the later academic world? In fact, without them, Europe would have never gone into a Renaissance and would forever be stuck in the dark ages? In fact, their studies still left a deep impact in present day academic knowledge. For example, Algoritmi or his real name Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī. He found an important area of scientific knowledge known as algorithm. You want to know something cool about this? Without algorithms, you wouldn't be bullshitting on the forums nor will you even be using a computer for that matter. To put it simply, without algorithms, there wouldn't be any computers.

5. Facts about terrorism

I believe that you are convinced that Islam is not a peaceful religion because you have seen, read or heard about some acts of terrorism which uses its name in recent years. Yes, I agree with you, there are certain people from its followers which uses its name to induce terror but, guess what? they're only a TINY fraction of the followers. Most of them are relatively peaceful people. Did you know that, according to Pew Research Center, there are 1 BILLION ++ followers of Islam? and those who commit the acts of terror only amount only about 0.006625% of their population?

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/06/07/worlds-muslim-population-more-widespread-than-you-might-think/

Plus, I would like to argue, if the act of merely a fraction of the individuals represent the will of the entire populace, then wouldn't that make the whole of America terrorist? This id referencing the invasion that the USA made on Iraq. THEY claimed that Iraq possessed WMD's, so they bombed and attacked and infiltrated the Muslim country for FOUR YEARS, FOUR LONG YEARS. Millions of innocent people died. But in the end, the USA did withdraw their forces but did you know what they said? " Oh, we couldn't find them. Sorry. " I'm not going to forget to mention that according to the FBI,

https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005

most terrorists attacks from the years 1980 - 2005 were made by NON-Muslims. So, should I call every non-Muslim on this planet, including myself, a terrorist?
Also, read this

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/omar-alnatour/muslims-are-not-terrorist_b_8718000.html

If you still believe that you are right after my arguments then, feel free to do so. But, before that, do watch this youtube video from start to finish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy9tNyp03M0

Oh wow.
Such an eloquent statement from a country with a flag that pleases my eyes.
I never did say anything like this to anybody before, but I can't help but second this post. Good job.

[Crockerland]

Islamophobia is a fictional term used by fascists to demonize people they don't like for criticizing an extraordinary cruel ideology.

^This sentence is used so that islamophobes can say false, sometimes dangerous BS about us Muslims, causing hate crimes.

Islam's founder must have approved of hate crimes considering how often he committed them, he was especially antisemitic and persecuted the Jews whenever he could, promising to religiously cleanse the Arabian peninsula of it's Jewish population and regularly acting on this promise.

[Immoren]

I am not sure how relevant the names of the swords are in this.

?

Muhammad nicknames three swords that he took from the Jewish tribe Qaynuqa after he banished them from Medina in April 624: "Pluck Out," "Very Sharp," and "Death." Two other swords from elsewhere are named: "Sharp" and "That is wont to sink" (presumably into human flesh). After his Hijrah or Emigration from Mecca to Medina in 622, he owned two swords called "Sharp" and "Having the vertebrae of the back." This last sword he collected as booty after his victory at the Battle of Badr in March 624.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

^This sentence is used so that islamophobes can say false, sometimes dangerous BS about us Muslims, causing hate crimes.

Islam's founder must have approved of hate crimes considering how often he committed them, he was especially antisemitic and persecuted the Jews whenever he could, promising to religiously cleanse the Arabian peninsula of it's Jewish population and regularly acting on this promise.

lol Allah (SWT) only sends signs, punishment, etc. Allah (SWT) doesn't lead anybody to battle. Allah (SWT) leaves that to the Humans.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

**Snip***

This.

[Crockerland]

Islam's founder must have approved of hate crimes considering how often he committed them, he was especially antisemitic and persecuted the Jews whenever he could, promising to religiously cleanse the Arabian peninsula of it's Jewish population and regularly acting on this promise.

lol

I don't usually laugh about antisemitic hatred and religious cleansing, but to each his own.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

And Finally for my final statement I'm going to bring up the Crusades. While I don't particuarly agree with the atrocities that any side did the Knights who fought for christiantity in a way were morally higher as Muslims were the one who started the war, As their book tells them to go to war with their neighbors and betray those who are weak.

You might want to open a book, or indeed spend six seconds thinking before you make silly statements like this.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

lol

I don't usually laugh about antisemitic hatred and religious cleansing, but to each his own.

I usually laugh about blatantly false stuff though.

[Danceria]

I don't usually laugh about antisemitic hatred and religious cleansing, but to each his own.

I usually laugh about blatantly false stuff though.

Also,
> Implying the Jews were not hated or at least ignored up until the 20th century, by all groups.

[Kubumba Tribe]

I usually laugh about blatantly false stuff though.

Also,
> Implying the Jews were not hated or at least ignored up until the 20th century, by all groups.

Actually, that's you putting false interpretations into my post.

[Giovenith]

As their book tells them to go to war with their neighbors and betray those who are weak.

So does the Bible.

[Raizelia]

Islam's founder must have approved of hate crimes considering how often he committed them, he was especially antisemitic and persecuted the Jews whenever he could, promising to religiously cleanse the Arabian peninsula of it's Jewish population and regularly acting on this promise.

lol Allah only sends signs, punishment, etc. Allah doesn't lead anybody to battle. Allah leaves that to the Humans.

In an authentic tradition, Prophet Muhammad is reported to have said: “Whenever you see a funeral procession, stand up till the procession goes ahead of you”. One day a funeral procession passed in front of him and he stood up. When he was told that it was the coffin of a Jew, he said, "Is it not a living being (soul)?" Also, Prophet Muhammad used to visit non-Muslims who were sick. Hence, the Prophet visited Abu Talib in his sickness, and he also visited a sick Jewish boy

[Solorni]

I'm pretty sure the worst excesses against Jews were by Christians..

[Kubumba Tribe]

As their book tells them to go to war with their neighbors and betray those who are weak.

So does the Bible.

On top of the fact it doesn't even say that.