US Gen. Election Thread V: The Hunt for Red October Surprise

[Reploid Productions]

This was a problem for McCain and Romney, to win the primaries they had to pander so much to the right that they became unelectable to the center. It's going to be a problem for the R's for a long time.

'Course, this could be the tipping point that causes the GOP to bottom out and start cleaning house in a return to sanity, especially if Trump's endless bloviating drags down the down-ticket races enough to potentially cost them the House and/or Senate. With not even a month to go, Republicans scrambling to distance themselves from Trump may be a case of too little, way too late.

[The United Colonies of Earth]

This was a problem for McCain and Romney, to win the primaries they had to pander so much to the right that they became unelectable to the center. It's going to be a problem for the R's for a long time.

'Course, this could be the tipping point that causes the GOP to bottom out and start cleaning house in a return to sanity, especially if Trump's endless bloviating drags down the down-ticket races enough to potentially cost them the House and/or Senate. With not even a month to go, Republicans scrambling to distance themselves from Trump may be a case of too little, way too late.

Why can't we stop relying on a shithead to hand us Congress?
(by "we" I mean the Democratic Party)

[Lancaster of Wessex]

This was a problem for McCain and Romney, to win the primaries they had to pander so much to the right that they became unelectable to the center. It's going to be a problem for the R's for a long time.

'Course, this could be the tipping point that causes the GOP to bottom out and start cleaning house in a return to sanity, especially if Trump's endless bloviating drags down the down-ticket races enough to potentially cost them the House and/or Senate. With not even a month to go, Republicans scrambling to distance themselves from Trump may be a case of too little, way too late.

The issue is, it's the voters that are a lot of the problem - not just the Repubs themselves. Look at their base. How do you change the very people that have lined up in droves to support Trump, vociferously? They are clamoring to dump the establishment, in a populist wave of frankly, irrationality, spurned on by anti-intellectualism to a large extent. How can the Repubs deal with these people? They have de-railed the GOP, and if the GOP wants to disavow these people, as they should, the growing split on the right of US politics will become a permanent fracture, and perhaps a third party will be borne out of the ashes - which is lovely news for the Dems, i.e. split vote.

[Reploid Productions]

'Course, this could be the tipping point that causes the GOP to bottom out and start cleaning house in a return to sanity, especially if Trump's endless bloviating drags down the down-ticket races enough to potentially cost them the House and/or Senate. With not even a month to go, Republicans scrambling to distance themselves from Trump may be a case of too little, way too late.

The issue is, it's the voters that are a lot of the problem - not just the Repubs themselves. Look at their base. How do you change the very people that have lined up in droves to support Trump, vociferously? They are clamoring to dump the establishment, in a populist wave of frankly, irrationality, spurned on by anti-intellectualism to a large extent. How can the Repubs deal with these people? They have de-railed the GOP, and if the GOP wants to disavow these people, as they should, the growing split on the right of US politics will become a permanent fracture, and perhaps a third party will be borne out of the ashes - which is lovely news for the Dems, i.e. split vote.

They need to start appealing to the center-right rather than the ignorant far-right fringe as a start. Running open primaries would help drown out the anti-intellectual fringe by opening the nomination process to fiscal conservatives and moderates who have fled the party. Along similar lines, reducing the focus on several social issues would probably do wonders to bring back those fiscal conservative/moderate voices.

They basically woke up a monster, hoping that they could mobilize the lunatic fringe into voting while keeping control of the options that fringe could choose from, and it backfired. Horribly.

[Genivaria]

Trump on Twitter, after Speaker Ryan said he's going to stop campaigning for Trump, and numerous Republicans retracted their "endorsements".

Disloyal R's are far more difficult than Crooked Hillary. They come at you from all sides. They don’t know how to win - I will teach them!

I don't get it, does he simply just not understand how elections work? Teach them? They are already elected, Trump is not and he is running one of the WORST presidential campaigns in American history. He's going to lose and Paul Ryan on the other hand is going to win.

Did anyone else imagine a villainous breakdown when they read this?
"They laugh at me, but I'll show them....I'LL SHOW THEM ALL!"

[UED]

The issue is, it's the voters that are a lot of the problem - not just the Repubs themselves. Look at their base. How do you change the very people that have lined up in droves to support Trump, vociferously? They are clamoring to dump the establishment, in a populist wave of frankly, irrationality, spurned on by anti-intellectualism to a large extent. How can the Repubs deal with these people? They have de-railed the GOP, and if the GOP wants to disavow these people, as they should, the growing split on the right of US politics will become a permanent fracture, and perhaps a third party will be borne out of the ashes - which is lovely news for the Dems, i.e. split vote.

They need to start appealing to the center-right rather than the ignorant far-right fringe as a start. Running open primaries would help drown out the anti-intellectual fringe by opening the nomination process to fiscal conservatives and moderates who have fled the party. Along similar lines, reducing the focus on several social issues would probably do wonders to bring back those fiscal conservative/moderate voices.

They basically woke up a monster, hoping that they could mobilize the lunatic fringe into voting while keeping control of the options that fringe could choose from, and it backfired. Horribly.

At this rate if the Republican Party doesn't get it under control they are in for another defeat in 2020.

[Lancaster of Wessex]

The issue is, it's the voters that are a lot of the problem - not just the Repubs themselves. Look at their base. How do you change the very people that have lined up in droves to support Trump, vociferously? They are clamoring to dump the establishment, in a populist wave of frankly, irrationality, spurned on by anti-intellectualism to a large extent. How can the Repubs deal with these people? They have de-railed the GOP, and if the GOP wants to disavow these people, as they should, the growing split on the right of US politics will become a permanent fracture, and perhaps a third party will be borne out of the ashes - which is lovely news for the Dems, i.e. split vote.

They need to start appealing to the center-right rather than the ignorant far-right fringe as a start. Running open primaries would help drown out the anti-intellectual fringe by opening the nomination process to fiscal conservatives and moderates who have fled the party. Along similar lines, reducing the focus on several social issues would probably do wonders to bring back those fiscal conservative/moderate voices.

They basically woke up a monster, hoping that they could mobilize the lunatic fringe into voting while keeping control of the options that fringe could choose from, and it backfired. Horribly.

I agree they need to moderate and be more inclusive and centred, however, you know those on the far right, the throngs of Trump and Tea Partiers will feel alienated and disenfranchised, as if they have no voice. They'd either try again to find another Trump with less baggage who could in future be successful (as I read in an online article) and reassert their presence on the GOP, or they could maybe rally their forces on their own into another party and again, split the vote. This fringe voice is not going to go away until there is a generational shift if anything.

[Corrian]

"Well, sir, we have Sean Hannity on set right now -- he's had you on his show a few times these past few months. Do you remember now, Mr. Trump? Sir?"

Hannity would also deny.. if there's one person I find more distasteful than Trump, Hannity is real close contender.

I used to watch a degree of FOX just to hear that side but I could never stomach Hannity for more than 2-3 minutes. Beck was so outlandish I found him a parody, the old bald guy who does the pinhead section I could watch, there were times he at least tried to act reasonable.. but Hannity.. I felt a visceral need to punch the television.

My Fox News watching grandpa who has probably been brainwashed by the channel some by now can'st stand Hannity. He had Hannity on once and shut it off in disgust.

[Bombadil]

They need to start appealing to the center-right rather than the ignorant far-right fringe as a start. Running open primaries would help drown out the anti-intellectual fringe by opening the nomination process to fiscal conservatives and moderates who have fled the party. Along similar lines, reducing the focus on several social issues would probably do wonders to bring back those fiscal conservative/moderate voices.

They basically woke up a monster, hoping that they could mobilize the lunatic fringe into voting while keeping control of the options that fringe could choose from, and it backfired. Horribly.

At this rate if the Republican Party doesn't get it under control they are in for another defeat in 2020.

Back in 2008 I predicted the Republicans being out til after 2020, I thought 2024 was more likely.. however I can't prove this as it was on the old Jolt boards. The Southern strategy has come to it's inevitable messy end.

[AiliailiA]

Sheriff Joe Arpaio to face criminal charges.

It's somewhat relevant to this thread, as Sheriff Joe faces election next month, and has campaigned with Trump.

Perhaps this is a big enough story in its own right, to deserve a new thread. On the other hand, there's no new information about what the Sheriff did wrong, only the announcement he'll be prosecuted. Debate would likely be a repetition of previous Sheriff Joe threads. Worth a thread, or not?

[New West Guiana]

'Course, this could be the tipping point that causes the GOP to bottom out and start cleaning house in a return to sanity, especially if Trump's endless bloviating drags down the down-ticket races enough to potentially cost them the House and/or Senate. With not even a month to go, Republicans scrambling to distance themselves from Trump may be a case of too little, way too late.

They didn't learn from 2012 they wont learn this time, in 2020 I seriously look forward for the GOP to offer us an actual Nazi since the whole party is moving further and further right every year. The moderate base of the GOP is dying off or joining the Democrats or becoming independent. If you think Trump is bad, 2020 will be 100x worse, 2016 is the year the alt-right takes over the party and starts writing up the most extreme legislation, policies the world has ever seen since Augusto Pinochet, because doing a Hitler in todays world would be very hard to pull off.

[Bombadil]

Hannity would also deny.. if there's one person I find more distasteful than Trump, Hannity is real close contender.

I used to watch a degree of FOX just to hear that side but I could never stomach Hannity for more than 2-3 minutes. Beck was so outlandish I found him a parody, the old bald guy who does the pinhead section I could watch, there were times he at least tried to act reasonable.. but Hannity.. I felt a visceral need to punch the television.

My Fox News watching grandpa who has probably been brainwashed by the channel some by now can'st stand Hannity. He had Hannity on once and shut it off in disgust.

Corrian.. I am your grandpa..

NOOOOOOOOO!

[The United Colonies of Earth]

'Course, this could be the tipping point that causes the GOP to bottom out and start cleaning house in a return to sanity, especially if Trump's endless bloviating drags down the down-ticket races enough to potentially cost them the House and/or Senate. With not even a month to go, Republicans scrambling to distance themselves from Trump may be a case of too little, way too late.

They didn't learn from 2012 they wont learn this time, in 2020 I seriously look forward for the GOP to offer us an actual Nazi since the whole party is moving further and further right every year. The moderate base of the GOP is dying off or joining the Democrats or becoming independent. If you think Trump is bad, 2020 will be 100x worse.

If it does that, then the Libertarians will rise to replace it. Or the Democrats will splinter again and a new party will form. I just hope that one of the splinters is still called Democratic.

[Bombadil]

They didn't learn from 2012 they wont learn this time, in 2020 I seriously look forward for the GOP to offer us an actual Nazi since the whole party is moving further and further right every year. The moderate base of the GOP is dying off or joining the Democrats or becoming independent. If you think Trump is bad, 2020 will be 100x worse.

If it does that, then the Libertarians will rise to replace it. Or the Democrats will splinter again and a new party will form. I just hope that one of the splinters is still called Democratic.

I suspect, one way or another, this is what will happen, the core of all this is small government versus big government, or deeper.. you make your own way in life/life is unequal.

I'd imagine the Republicans would revolve around this, and pull in far left libertarians leaving the Dems in the middle. However they'd need to probably drop their focus on religious issues, not sure that will happen anytime soon. So perhaps a third party will rise, much like Labour in the UK at the turn of the 20th century.

[The United Colonies of Earth]

If it does that, then the Libertarians will rise to replace it. Or the Democrats will splinter again and a new party will form. I just hope that one of the splinters is still called Democratic.

I suspect, one way or another, this is what will happen, the core of all this is small government versus big government, or deeper.. you make your own way in life/life is unequal.

I'd imagine the Republicans would revolve around this, and pull in far left libertarians leaving the Dems in the middle. However they'd need to probably drop their focus on religious issues, not sure that will happen anytime soon. So perhaps a third party will rise, much like Labour in the UK at the turn of the 20th century.

It will make for interesting times.

[Maineiacs]

It will make for interesting times.

By all accounts, the 1930s and 1940s were interesting times. I'm not eager to have first hand knowledge, though.

[Galloism]

Trump: Ryan's a coward, McCain has the dirtiest mouth in the senate, and Hillary kept invading my space in the debate.

[Mad hatters in jeans]

'Course, this could be the tipping point that causes the GOP to bottom out and start cleaning house in a return to sanity, especially if Trump's endless bloviating drags down the down-ticket races enough to potentially cost them the House and/or Senate. With not even a month to go, Republicans scrambling to distance themselves from Trump may be a case of too little, way too late.

The issue is, it's the voters that are a lot of the problem - not just the Repubs themselves. Look at their base. How do you change the very people that have lined up in droves to support Trump, vociferously? They are clamoring to dump the establishment, in a populist wave of frankly, irrationality, spurned on by anti-intellectualism to a large extent. How can the Repubs deal with these people? They have de-railed the GOP, and if the GOP wants to disavow these people, as they should, the growing split on the right of US politics will become a permanent fracture, and perhaps a third party will be borne out of the ashes - which is lovely news for the Dems, i.e. split vote.

Wasn't that the case with the tea party thing, then it just sort of fizzled?

[Tsaraine]

Trump: Ryan's a coward, McCain has the dirtiest mouth in the senate, and Hillary kept invading my space in the debate.

Does he live in Bizarro World? Trump was the one stalking about, coming up behind Hillary and slouching like a two-bit thug. The level of cognitive dissonance on display here is truly scary.

... But not, on reflection, in any way actually surprising. This is par for the course for Trump.

[Camicon]

Trump: Ryan's a coward, McCain has the dirtiest mouth in the senate, and Hillary kept invading my space in the debate.

Does he live in Bizarro World? Trump was the one stalking about, coming up behind Hillary and slouching like a two-bit thug. The level of cognitive dissonance on display here is truly scary.

... But not, on reflection, in any way actually surprising. This is par for the course for Trump.

Next he'll be saying that it was Hillary humping his chair.

[Philjia]

Last night on BBC news a reporter had to outright say that some things Donald Trump had said were not true. I don't think I've seen that before.

[Frank Zipper]

Last night on BBC news a reporter had to outright say that some things Donald Trump had said were not true. I don't think I've seen that before.

The BBC website did some fact checking on the candidates' claims after both debates.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37480990

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37603685

Trump tells lots of lies.

[Gauthier]

Sheriff Joe Arpaio to face criminal charges.

It's somewhat relevant to this thread, as Sheriff Joe faces election next month, and has campaigned with Trump.

Perhaps this is a big enough story in its own right, to deserve a new thread. On the other hand, there's no new information about what the Sheriff did wrong, only the announcement he'll be prosecuted. Debate would likely be a repetition of previous Sheriff Joe threads. Worth a thread, or not?

Prosecutors said Tuesday they will charge Sheriff Joe Arpaio with criminal contempt-of-court for defying a judge's orders to end his signature immigration patrols in Arizona, exposing the 84-year-old lawman to the possibility of jail time and clouding his political future as he seeks a seventh term.

[Gauthier]

Does he live in Bizarro World? Trump was the one stalking about, coming up behind Hillary and slouching like a two-bit thug. The level of cognitive dissonance on display here is truly scary.

... But not, on reflection, in any way actually surprising. This is par for the course for Trump.

Next he'll be saying that it was Hillary humping his chair.

If Donald Trump had a supervillain identity, it would be called The Projector.

[Cannot think of a name]

This was a problem for McCain and Romney, to win the primaries they had to pander so much to the right that they became unelectable to the center. It's going to be a problem for the R's for a long time.

'Course, this could be the tipping point that causes the GOP to bottom out and start cleaning house in a return to sanity, especially if Trump's endless bloviating drags down the down-ticket races enough to potentially cost them the House and/or Senate. With not even a month to go, Republicans scrambling to distance themselves from Trump may be a case of too little, way too late.

I feel like I've said this every election. I mean, I don't know how much crazier/rock bottom it can get, but...