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US Gen. Election Thread V: The Hunt for Red October Surprise

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What is The Biggest, Most Imminent, Geopolitical Threat To The United States?

Russia
33
13%
China
17
7%
North Korea
2
1%
ISIS
13
5%
Climate Change
45
18%
Iran
1
0%
Immigrants/Refugees
12
5%
Domestic Terror
12
5%
Hillary Clinton
46
18%
Donald Trump
75
29%
 
Total votes : 256

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Cymrea
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Cymrea » Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:59 am

Gauthier wrote:In the wake of having been forced to call suicide hotlines in between shilling for Trump by phone, Ted Cruz tries to reestablish his asshole creds:

Ted Cruz raises possibility of keeping seat vacant on Supreme Court

WASHINGTON Texas Sen. Ted Cruz is raising the possibility that Republicans would decline to fill the Supreme Court’s vacancy if Democrat Hillary Clinton is elected president.

Cruz is the second Republican to suggest that the GOP will simply block any Democratic nominee to replace the late Justice Antonin Scalia, who died in February. Arizona Sen. John McCain made a similar assertion earlier this month.

Speaking to reporters while campaigning for Republicans on Wednesday, Cruz was asked about Supreme Court vacancies.

“There will be plenty of time for debate on that issue, there is long historical precedent for a Supreme Court with fewer justices, just recently Justice (Stephen) Breyer observed that the vacancy is not impacting the ability of the court to do its job, that’s a debate that we are going to have,” Cruz said, in a quote later provided by his office.

Breyer said this week on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” program that “the mechanics works about the same” with a 4-4 split on the court as they do with the normal 5-4.

President Obama nominated Judge Merrick Garland for Scalia’s seat in March, but Senate Republicans, led by Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, declined to even hold hearings as they insisted the voters choosing the next president would have the final say on the vacancy. Cruz said the best way to ensure conservatives are nominated to the court is to put a Republican in the White House and keep the GOP in control of the Senate.

“For those of us who care passionately about the Constitution and Bill of Rights, who care about free speech and religious liberty and the 2nd Amendment, the best way to protect those rights is to win on Election Day so that we see strong conservatives nominated to the court, and maintain a Republican majority in the Senate to confirm those strong conservatives,” Cruz said.

Outgoing Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid used Cruz’s comments in a fundraising email Wednesday night.

“Ted Cruz and John McCain may have given away the Republican game plan on the Supreme Court,” Reid wrote in the email sent by the Progressive Change Campaign Committee. “And we need to treat it like the constitutional crisis it will be if Democrats don’t take back the Senate majority.”

Cruz, who lost the presidential primary to Donald Trump, endorsed the nominee recently after telling Republicans to vote their conscience at this summer’s Republican convention, a move that drew condemnation from some in the GOP.

The size of the court is set by federal law and has changed over the years, but has been nine justices for most of its existence. Initially, there were six justices. The court reached its highest number, 10, during the Civil War. There has been a nine-justice court since 1869.

When vacancies arise, they usually are filled within months, if not weeks. But there have twice been stretches of more than two years where the court was one justice short. Another six vacancies lasted more than a year. The most recent of those was in 1969 and 1970, when Justice Abe Fortas resigned and the Senate rejected two of President Richard Nixon’s nominees before confirming Justice Harry Blackmun.

McCain’s comments came in an interview on a Philadelphia radio station to promote the candidacy of Sen. Pat Toomey, R-Pa., a vulnerable Senate GOP incumbent.

“I promise you that we will be united against any Supreme Court nominee that Hillary Clinton, if she were president, would put up,” McCain said.

He added, “This is the strongest argument I can make to return Pat Toomey, so we can make sure there are not three places on the United States Supreme Court that will change this country for decades.”

An aide to McCain, R-Ariz., later clarified that he will examine the record of anyone nominated for the high court and vote for or against that person based on their qualifications.

After McCain’s comments, Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Charles Grassley said Republicans “can’t just simply stonewall” nominees to the Supreme Court even if the president making the choice is Democrat Hillary Clinton.

They got used to having their majority, and now will do anything to keep it.

Refuse to do their job and process nominees... "we'll wait until the next president is elected"...next president looks more and more like Clinton..."Ah, fuck. Um...maybe we'll just refuse nominees altogether until we can have our way again".
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Taziristan
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Postby Taziristan » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:16 am

It just seems really petty and dumb to have our judicial system under fire because of Republicans. I think most of hillarys time in office will be getting these justices appointed, assuming 4 need replacement in the next 8 years.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:18 am

Cymrea wrote:
Gauthier wrote:In the wake of having been forced to call suicide hotlines in between shilling for Trump by phone, Ted Cruz tries to reestablish his asshole creds:

Ted Cruz raises possibility of keeping seat vacant on Supreme Court


They got used to having their majority, and now will do anything to keep it.

Refuse to do their job and process nominees... "we'll wait until the next president is elected"...next president looks more and more like Clinton..."Ah, fuck. Um...maybe we'll just refuse nominees altogether until we can have our way again".


Yeah let's just shut down the government and refuse to confirm any nominees for anything. I hope if the democrats get the Senate they nuke the filibuster for all executive and judicial nominees. Plus the filibuster should go back to having to actually talk instead of the silent filibuster we have now.

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Cymrea
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Cymrea » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:21 am

Personally, I think this constitutes legislative interference of the judiciary.
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Eol Sha
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Postby Eol Sha » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:22 am

Taziristan wrote:It just seems really petty and dumb to have our judicial system under fire because of Republicans. I think most of hillarys time in office will be getting these justices appointed, assuming 4 need replacement in the next 8 years.

Of course it's petty. The Republican Party's modern ideology revolves around destroying trust in the government by breaking it.
You'd better believe I'm a bitter Bernie Sanders supporter. The Dems fucked up and fucked up hard. Hopefully they'll learn that neoliberalism and maintaining the status quo isn't the way to win this election or any other one. I doubt they will, though.

"What's the number one method of achieving civil rights in America? Don't scare the white folks." ~ Eol Sha

Praise be to C-SPAN - Democrats Should Listen to Sanders - How I Voted on November 8, 2016 - Trump's Foreign Policy: Do Stupid Shit - Trump's Clock is Ticking

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Soldati Senza Confini
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:23 am

Taziristan wrote:It just seems really petty and dumb to have our judicial system under fire because of Republicans. I think most of hillarys time in office will be getting these justices appointed, assuming 4 need replacement in the next 8 years.


Not the first time it has happened, just the most recent one.
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

Current Goal: Flesh out nation factbook.

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:24 am

Soldati Senza Confini wrote:
Taziristan wrote:It just seems really petty and dumb to have our judicial system under fire because of Republicans. I think most of hillarys time in office will be getting these justices appointed, assuming 4 need replacement in the next 8 years.


Not the first time it has happened, just the most recent one.

I hope if the Democrats get the Senate they nuke the filibuster entirely for Presidential nominees. if someone wants to filibuster they should have to actually talk like in the old days.

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Eol Sha
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Postby Eol Sha » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:24 am

Cymrea wrote:Personally, I think this constitutes legislative interference of the judiciary.

What does this mean? Congress has the sole ability to approve or disapprove federal judges and Justices. It can't be interference since they're the ones who created the current federal judge system (minus SCOTUS) and all the rules surrounding it.
Last edited by Eol Sha on Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
You'd better believe I'm a bitter Bernie Sanders supporter. The Dems fucked up and fucked up hard. Hopefully they'll learn that neoliberalism and maintaining the status quo isn't the way to win this election or any other one. I doubt they will, though.

"What's the number one method of achieving civil rights in America? Don't scare the white folks." ~ Eol Sha

Praise be to C-SPAN - Democrats Should Listen to Sanders - How I Voted on November 8, 2016 - Trump's Foreign Policy: Do Stupid Shit - Trump's Clock is Ticking

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Soldati Senza Confini
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:25 am

Cymrea wrote:Personally, I think this constitutes legislative interference of the judiciary.


Well, not really.

The U.S. Constitution lays out that the president picks the new justice on SCOTUS, and Congress advices, and then confirms the new justice.

SCOTUS has been wielded as a weapon before, it's just that normally it doesn't mean you have an empty seat forever and ever until somehow your candidate wins.
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

Current Goal: Flesh out nation factbook.

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Soldati Senza Confini
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:26 am

San Lumen wrote:
Soldati Senza Confini wrote:
Not the first time it has happened, just the most recent one.

I hope if the Democrats get the Senate they nuke the filibuster entirely for Presidential nominees. if someone wants to filibuster they should have to actually talk like in the old days.


Can't. And probably won't if they could.

Eliminating the filibuster through a rules committee would also hurt them in the long run.
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

Current Goal: Flesh out nation factbook.

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Cymrea
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Postby Cymrea » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:26 am

Eol Sha wrote:
Cymrea wrote:Personally, I think this constitutes legislative interference of the judiciary.

What does this mean? Congress has the sole ability to approve or disapprove federal judges and Justices. It can't be interference since they're the ones who created the current federal judge system (minus SCOTUS) and all the rules surrounding it.

Checks and balances, yes. The legislature approves the judiciary, yes. Refusing to do so based solely on partisan politics is interference in the process.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:27 am

Eol Sha wrote:
Cymrea wrote:Personally, I think this constitutes legislative interference of the judiciary.

What does this mean? Congress has the sole ability to approve or disapprove federal judges and Justices. It can't be interference since they're the ones who created the current federal judge system and all the rules surrounding it.

They are interfering with the justice system by refusing to confirm a nominee to Supreme Court and saying they won't conform any of Hillary Clinton's nominees should she win. That's interference. The job of the Senate is advise and consent not advise and obstruct. All nominees deserve a hearing and a up or down vote anything less is obstruction, there is no way to spin it.

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Taziristan
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Postby Taziristan » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:27 am

Soldati Senza Confini wrote:
Taziristan wrote:It just seems really petty and dumb to have our judicial system under fire because of Republicans. I think most of hillarys time in office will be getting these justices appointed, assuming 4 need replacement in the next 8 years.


Not the first time it has happened, just the most recent one.

Yup. Still applies
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Eol Sha
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Postby Eol Sha » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:29 am

San Lumen wrote:
Eol Sha wrote:What does this mean? Congress has the sole ability to approve or disapprove federal judges and Justices. It can't be interference since they're the ones who created the current federal judge system and all the rules surrounding it.

They are interfering with the justice system by refusing to confirm a nominee to Supreme Court and saying they won't conform any of Hillary Clinton's nominees should she win. That's interference. The job of the Senate is advise and consent not advise and obstruct. All nominees deserve a hearing and a up or down vote anything less is obstruction, there is no way to spin it.

Maybe for SCOTUS since that's a Constitutionally-mandated branch of the government, but the rest of the judiciary was created by Congress.
You'd better believe I'm a bitter Bernie Sanders supporter. The Dems fucked up and fucked up hard. Hopefully they'll learn that neoliberalism and maintaining the status quo isn't the way to win this election or any other one. I doubt they will, though.

"What's the number one method of achieving civil rights in America? Don't scare the white folks." ~ Eol Sha

Praise be to C-SPAN - Democrats Should Listen to Sanders - How I Voted on November 8, 2016 - Trump's Foreign Policy: Do Stupid Shit - Trump's Clock is Ticking

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:29 am

Soldati Senza Confini wrote:
San Lumen wrote:I hope if the Democrats get the Senate they nuke the filibuster entirely for Presidential nominees. if someone wants to filibuster they should have to actually talk like in the old days.


Can't. And probably won't if they could.

Eliminating the filibuster through a rules committee would also hurt them in the long run.

Senator Schumer who will likely be majority leader should they win the Senate has said he would. Plus if you want to filibuster you should have to actually talk like what was done with the Civil Rights act in 1964. Also to clarify I do not condone the filibuster of that landmark legislation but that's what you should have to do if you want to stop a presidential nominee or legislation from being passed.

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The Emerald Dawn
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Postby The Emerald Dawn » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:32 am

San Lumen wrote:
Soldati Senza Confini wrote:
Can't. And probably won't if they could.

Eliminating the filibuster through a rules committee would also hurt them in the long run.

Senator Schumer who will likely be majority leader should they win the Senate has said he would. Plus if you want to filibuster you should have to actually talk like what was done with the Civil Rights act in 1964. Also to clarify I do not condone the filibuster of that landmark legislation but that's what you should have to do if you want to stop a presidential nominee or legislation from being passed.

Altering the rules of a filibuster would probably be less damaging to both parties than eliminating it altogether.

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Eol Sha
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Postby Eol Sha » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:32 am

San Lumen wrote:
Soldati Senza Confini wrote:
Can't. And probably won't if they could.

Eliminating the filibuster through a rules committee would also hurt them in the long run.

Senator Schumer who will likely be majority leader should they win the Senate has said he would. Plus if you want to filibuster you should have to actually talk like what was done with the Civil Rights act in 1964. Also to clarify I do not condone the filibuster of that landmark legislation but that's what you should have to do if you want to stop a presidential nominee or legislation from being passed.

I think there's a reason why the filibuster wasn't removed from Senate procedure when the Dems actually had the chance. They realized that doing so would bite them in the ass when the day comes where Republicans control both the Senate and the Presidency.
You'd better believe I'm a bitter Bernie Sanders supporter. The Dems fucked up and fucked up hard. Hopefully they'll learn that neoliberalism and maintaining the status quo isn't the way to win this election or any other one. I doubt they will, though.

"What's the number one method of achieving civil rights in America? Don't scare the white folks." ~ Eol Sha

Praise be to C-SPAN - Democrats Should Listen to Sanders - How I Voted on November 8, 2016 - Trump's Foreign Policy: Do Stupid Shit - Trump's Clock is Ticking

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Soldati Senza Confini
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:32 am

San Lumen wrote:
Soldati Senza Confini wrote:
Can't. And probably won't if they could.

Eliminating the filibuster through a rules committee would also hurt them in the long run.

Senator Schumer who will likely be majority leader should they win the Senate has said he would. Plus if you want to filibuster you should have to actually talk like what was done with the Civil Rights act in 1964. Also to clarify I do not condone the filibuster of that landmark legislation but that's what you should have to do if you want to stop a presidential nominee or legislation from being passed.


Then Schumer is a fucking idiot.

The reason you have a filibuster rule and the equally important cloture motion is because you can let a bill die without bringing it to vote.

It is an important part of our legislative process, albeit a hardly used one until recently. Eliminate the filibuster and you'll end up fucking yourself over if you don't have a "safe cloture" majority in congress, let alone a majority.
Last edited by Soldati Senza Confini on Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

Current Goal: Flesh out nation factbook.

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Cannot think of a name
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:33 am

San Lumen wrote:
Eol Sha wrote:What does this mean? Congress has the sole ability to approve or disapprove federal judges and Justices. It can't be interference since they're the ones who created the current federal judge system and all the rules surrounding it.

They are interfering with the justice system by refusing to confirm a nominee to Supreme Court and saying they won't conform any of Hillary Clinton's nominees should she win. That's interference. The job of the Senate is advise and consent not advise and obstruct. All nominees deserve a hearing and a up or down vote anything less is obstruction, there is no way to spin it.

Remember when Obama had to do a bunch of recess appointments because they would t vote on his judges and they lost their shit and then had a designated loser to keep the senate in session? No come upins, so they're upping their game.
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:35 am

Soldati Senza Confini wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Senator Schumer who will likely be majority leader should they win the Senate has said he would. Plus if you want to filibuster you should have to actually talk like what was done with the Civil Rights act in 1964. Also to clarify I do not condone the filibuster of that landmark legislation but that's what you should have to do if you want to stop a presidential nominee or legislation from being passed.


Then Schumer is a fucking idiot.

The reason you have a filibuster rule and the equally important cloture motion is because you can let a bill die without bringing it to vote.

It is an important part of our legislative process, albeit a hardly used one until recently. Eliminate the filibuster and you'll end up fucking yourself over if you don't have a "safe cloture" majority in congress.

To clarify he said he would for the Supreme Court. I say again if you want to filibuster you should have to actually talk on the floor.

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Eol Sha
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Postby Eol Sha » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:36 am

The Emerald Dawn wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Senator Schumer who will likely be majority leader should they win the Senate has said he would. Plus if you want to filibuster you should have to actually talk like what was done with the Civil Rights act in 1964. Also to clarify I do not condone the filibuster of that landmark legislation but that's what you should have to do if you want to stop a presidential nominee or legislation from being passed.

Altering the rules of a filibuster would probably be less damaging to both parties than eliminating it altogether.

Harry Reid did that for non-SCOTUS judicial appointments.
You'd better believe I'm a bitter Bernie Sanders supporter. The Dems fucked up and fucked up hard. Hopefully they'll learn that neoliberalism and maintaining the status quo isn't the way to win this election or any other one. I doubt they will, though.

"What's the number one method of achieving civil rights in America? Don't scare the white folks." ~ Eol Sha

Praise be to C-SPAN - Democrats Should Listen to Sanders - How I Voted on November 8, 2016 - Trump's Foreign Policy: Do Stupid Shit - Trump's Clock is Ticking

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The Emerald Dawn
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Postby The Emerald Dawn » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:37 am

Eol Sha wrote:
The Emerald Dawn wrote:Altering the rules of a filibuster would probably be less damaging to both parties than eliminating it altogether.

Harry Reid did that for non-SCOTUS judicial appointments.

It isn't an unreasonable method of avoiding chronic obstructionism. But it can backfire pretty hard if you don't have sufficient public support for what you're doing.

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Taziristan
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Postby Taziristan » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:37 am

San Lumen wrote:
Soldati Senza Confini wrote:
Then Schumer is a fucking idiot.

The reason you have a filibuster rule and the equally important cloture motion is because you can let a bill die without bringing it to vote.

It is an important part of our legislative process, albeit a hardly used one until recently. Eliminate the filibuster and you'll end up fucking yourself over if you don't have a "safe cloture" majority in congress.

To clarify he said he would for the Supreme Court. I say again if you want to filibuster you should have to actually talk on the floor.

Like rand Paul did.
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Eol Sha
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Ex-Nation

Postby Eol Sha » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:38 am

The Emerald Dawn wrote:
Eol Sha wrote:Harry Reid did that for non-SCOTUS judicial appointments.

It isn't an unreasonable method of avoiding chronic obstructionism. But it can backfire pretty hard if you don't have sufficient public support for what you're doing.

Indeed. Which is probably why the filibuster hasn't been altogether removed.
You'd better believe I'm a bitter Bernie Sanders supporter. The Dems fucked up and fucked up hard. Hopefully they'll learn that neoliberalism and maintaining the status quo isn't the way to win this election or any other one. I doubt they will, though.

"What's the number one method of achieving civil rights in America? Don't scare the white folks." ~ Eol Sha

Praise be to C-SPAN - Democrats Should Listen to Sanders - How I Voted on November 8, 2016 - Trump's Foreign Policy: Do Stupid Shit - Trump's Clock is Ticking

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San Lumen
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:38 am

Taziristan wrote:
San Lumen wrote:To clarify he said he would for the Supreme Court. I say again if you want to filibuster you should have to actually talk on the floor.

Like rand Paul did.

Yes and that's how it should have to be done any time you want to filibuster.

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