Dumb people shouldn't vote!?

[Russleb]

how the hell is that possible when the masses are swayed by politicians and empty promises?

I suppose a better emphasis on local authorities would benefit, take care of things at the lowest form of leadership, but I won't hold my breath. still, a little optimism is better at times I suppose.

You work as hard as you can to elect politicians who do not make empty promises. There are plenty of honest people out there who want to be of service to their country, state, county, city, what-have-you. Did I say it would be easy? No, but it can be done.

i have to agree with you on that one, it would mostly be a matter of motivating enough people. course some are too attached to the current system to want any change so it's certainly an uphill battle, especially if more and more rights(or temporary privileges) are legislated away and the people simply keep complying

[Benuty]

My stance on voting largely comes from the late great George Carlin

(Image)

that being said, I see democracy as an experiment. It's quite fascinating to see what happens when anyone who's a citizen, regardless of contribution to society(which indeed does vary depending on who you ask) or lack thereof. All inevitable corruption aside(Fate of Empires and such), is it better to let the people have a say? I would argue yes despite my incredible cynicism. Because the chances of it working outweigh the lack of democracy.

But of course, nothing good lasts for very long, or stays good.

As much as I admire Saint George, he was wrong. If you refuse to participate in the system and do your best to make sure the best people are elected, you have no right to complain. None at all. You copped out, you stayed home, you abandoned your country for the specious claim that "this country was bought and paid for." Piffle.

Except the country was bought, and paid for. By me, and the ones I associate with obviously I mean we cannot have you crazy humans truly run things now can we?

[Benuty]

Why does a person living in California have a say in the life of a person living in Maine? It's absurd to think that people with nothing in common can self-govern effectively. If there is a democracy, it must be at most local possible level, nationally voting for an executive is absurd.

Some people could say the universe itself is absurd.

[Russleb]

As much as I admire Saint George, he was wrong. If you refuse to participate in the system and do your best to make sure the best people are elected, you have no right to complain. None at all. You copped out, you stayed home, you abandoned your country for the specious claim that "this country was bought and paid for." Piffle.

Except the country was bought, and paid for. By me, and the ones I associate with obviously I mean we cannot have you crazy humans truly run things now can we?

you strike me as someone who's a fan of H.L. Menkin

[Tobuel]

Why does a person living in California have a say in the life of a person living in Maine? It's absurd to think that people with nothing in common can self-govern effectively. If there is a democracy, it must be at most local possible level, nationally voting for an executive is absurd.

Some people could say the universe itself is absurd.

You could but that wouldn't contribute anything to the discussion, not would it be accurate.

[Benuty]

Some people could say the universe itself is absurd.

You could but that wouldn't contribute anything to the discussion, not would it be accurate.

Nothing contributes anything since no one has any free will. I can only contribute what I have been allowed to, and the same goes for you. Accuracy got thrown out the window the moment the clock started unwinding.

[Empire of Narnia]

So only people that have undergone Liberal indoctrination can vote?

[Russleb]

So only people that have undergone Liberal indoctrination can vote?

considering how elitists acted after Brexit and paranoia over nationalism in general, that's probably not too far from what people think. then again if you're part of the majority, you'd think anyone who goes against you is a moron because how dare they not see the truth as you see it!

meh. everyone thinks they're the good guy. well unless perhaps they're sociopaths or psychopaths.

[Giovenith]

So only people that have undergone Liberal indoctrination can vote?

Maybe I'm just not reading the OP clearly enough, but the closest the proponent of this idea comes to identifying with any political slice is Libertarian, a sect I find doesn't tend to take too kindly to being confused with the other "liber-" word.

[Thermodolia]

I vote we put a monthly thread posting cap for the OP. Who's with me?

I second this motion

[New confederate ramenia]

Smart people shouldn't vote either.

[Lydenburg]

"Mugabe was elected" is not a valid strike against the concept of universal franchise.

[Thermodolia]

"Mugabe was elected" is not a valid strike against the concept of universal franchise.

Based on that logic we should stop eating because Hitler ate.

[The Alma Mater]

"Mugabe was elected" is not a valid strike against the concept of universal franchise.

Based on that logic we should stop eating because Hitler ate.

A famous quote by Mugabe himself is: "Don't drink at all, don't smoke, you must exercise and eat vegetables and fruit".
So.. we must not do that.

[Grave_n_idle]

Limiting voting rights for any reason seems like it would be harmful to democracy, rather than strengthen it.

That's kind of the point, though. He's ultimately arguing that democracy itself is flawed.

And if you assume that there are better ways to govern than a popular vote (as did the US Founding Fathers), it then becomes a question of how you're going to temper or replace it.

[Grave_n_idle]

So only people that have undergone Liberal indoctrination can vote?

It's interesting that you assume knowledge and liberal indoctrination are the same thing.

[The Two Jerseys]

I vote we put a monthly thread posting cap for the OP. Who's with me?

I second this motion

But if you vote instead of paying money, we won't know your true valuation of the posting cap!

[Forsher]

Incidentally, regarding the poll, how old of kids are we talking about?

Because I've often thought that we should probably lower the voting age to 16. It seems ridiculous that they're responsible enough to drive a 4,000 pound vehicle at over 100 feet per second, but not responsible enough to choose who they like for president.

Now, regarding a 3 year old, that's basically just a proxy vote for the parent, so I wouldn't allow that.

Firstly, in an ideal world, everyone would make an informed decision about how they vote (which in the case of tax choice would mean they choose their taxes to go to the "Ministry of the Budget"). Secondly, in an ideal world, everyone would be able to vote with a system that doesn't penalise a paucity of realistic options (for instance, I recently voted for A despite having good reasons to vote for B in order that my vote not be wasted* and potentially benefit C). Thirdly, the reason for both of these first points is that people ought to have some kind of say in how they're ruled.** Fourthly, it follows from the first three points that the reason why it is ideal for people to make informed decisions is because it's a more useful sort of thing (the main thing is that they get to make and exercise a decision) not that making informed decisions is the ideal (that makes sense to me).

However, the important thing here (i.e. why I posted in this thread) is that regarding the aforementioned election I asked a friend of mine if he'd voted and it turned out his dad had filled in the voting form for him and posted it. What can you say.

*Wasted in the sense that even when only one individual can win, a wasted vote is a vote for anyone who doesn't have a realistic hope of winning. So, if it's a five horse vote, voting for a sixth horse is wasted and if it's a two-horse race then voting for the aforementioned B is wasted. This is different to the wasted vote that we normally talk about regarding parliament's seating.

**This seems to now be moving beyond both the thread's scope and an aside like this.

[PaNTuXIa]

I wish they wouldn't, but I can't restrict their ability to do so. Also, how do we define "kids?"

[Imperium Sidhicum]

I really don't get just what people find so damn precious about the right to cast a piece of paper in a ballot box once every four years. If that right was suddenly abolished, it wouldn't really change anything in their lives. Most probably wouldn't even notice to begin with.

[Romae Aemilius]

Of course the plebs shouldn't be allowed to vote! How else is my preferred party going to win? Don't they understand that I know what's better for them than they do!?

[New Rogernomics]

The right to vote should not be determined by the sum of someone's IQ, but after x politician is elected, you do wish it was.

[Community Values]

What is a dumb person?

Someone who doesn't have a high IQ?

Someone who doesn't follow "x" ideology?

Someone who votes for "x" candidate?

Trump may believe that dumb people are those that don't vote for him, and therefore 50% of the population can't vote. The line would be too subjective and too arbitrary.

[Caracasus]

If you want to improve the system, perhaps instead of forbidding "dumb" people from voting we should focus on spending more on education and perhaps teaching students about how the entire "government" thing works?

I was never taught in school about how our government works, about how people are elected, what a representative democracy is and all that - which is pretty crazy when you think about it.

[Mad hatters in jeans]

I would recommend not giving folks 8 votes for the poll. That way lies tomfoolery.