The Sixties Scoop

[Costa Fierro]

You're a Kiwi right, I doubt you know what it's like to live in areas with a large indigenous populations such as Cairns, or places in the Northern Territories.

There are similar places in the North Island full of destitution and rampant crime.

Politicians change with elections, bureaucrats and other staff do not.

Not only that, but policies can remain due to institutional biases and racism. I mean Australia transitioned between vaguely left and right wing governments, but White Australia still remained regardless of which party was in power.

[Nusaresa]

Well the past has past. That is why reconciliation and mutual dialogue is important. It's the method for people, both native and non natives alike, to move on and realize that it has past and things will get better.



Well yeah I'm saying that the very terminology sounds like a 'oh my gah, im so sorry' it comes off as rather insincere at best and at worst traps everyone in a sense of guilt and guilt tripping mentalities.

Then we're in agreement.

I love it when I'm right <3

Politicians change with elections, bureaucrats and other staff do not.

Then it is they whom must apologise, isn't it?

Well it's more of the institution of government that is to apologize, but as we discussed earlier and even some divergent cases (Japan and war crimes for instance) apologies do not cut it.

[Sassinia]

The only one having "white savior syndrome" are you guys, spouting out "Oh, but we invented *insert already invented thing here*!" every five seconds.

Don't you realize? You oh-so civilized western "whites" were barbarians a few centuries ago, while at the same time people in the East were living in luxury.

Blah blah blah spare me the drivel that divides people even further.

Also, what a HILARIOUSLY pathetic way of viewing history. Need I remind you of China's own imperial ambitions? How about Japan's views of civilization and barbarianism? Oh oh oh, how about how ethnic relations are a result of basic human psychology and the the only way to open one's minds into loving thy neighbor is by understanding them beyond the prejudices one holds and by understanding what can be done to improve relationships between races.

Your petty argument serves as nothing but a catalyst for conflict and resentment. 'Tolerance' is an empty word without understanding.

China's and Japan's imperialism is nowhere near the scale of European imperialism.

Who said I hated the west? I'm not trying to divide ourselves- but I absolutely abhor those who kiss the ass of Europe and America.

Because the west genocide and enslaved the most? Isn't it obvious?

It is disingenuous to say such a thing when most of the worlds history is either not recorded, or is lost to the ages. The West has only been able commit genocide on a larger scale.

Emphasis mine.

[Minzerland II]

Then we're in agreement.

I love it when I'm right <3

Then it is they whom must apologise, isn't it?

Well it's more of the institution of government that is to apologize, but as we discussed earlier and even some divergent cases (Japan and war crimes for instance) apologies do not cut it.

I don't see why, the Government is a tool, not an individual who commits an act by their own volition.

[Zostra]

Well it's more of the institution of government that is to apologize, but as we discussed earlier and even some divergent cases (Japan and war crimes for instance) apologies do not cut it.

That's pretty much how I view it. The state as an entity is recognizing it committed a crime and apologizing.

[Camicon]

I love it when I'm right <3

Well it's more of the institution of government that is to apologize, but as we discussed earlier and even some divergent cases (Japan and war crimes for instance) apologies do not cut it.

I don't see why, the Government is a tool, not an individual who commits an act by their own volition.

The government is an institution. It is an institution that promoted, as a matter of policy, genocide. That is deserving of an apology, and far more.

[Nusaresa]

Because the west committed genocide and enslaved the most? Isn't it obvious?

Oh boy, genocide olympics. While you can recognize the west has committed (and still commits) horrific acts, it's kind of difficult for the "East" to claim a moral high ground simply because they may have killed or oppressed less.

Genocide Olympics is one thing I giggle at (because I'm a fucking sicko) and I wish to never hear it again.

Blah blah blah spare me the drivel that divides people even further.

Also, what a HILARIOUSLY pathetic way of viewing history. Need I remind you of China's own imperial ambitions? How about Japan's views of civilization and barbarianism? Oh oh oh, how about how ethnic relations are a result of basic human psychology and the the only way to open one's minds into loving thy neighbor is by understanding them beyond the prejudices one holds and by understanding what can be done to improve relationships between races.

Your petty argument serves as nothing but a catalyst for conflict and resentment. 'Tolerance' is an empty word without understanding.

China's and Japan's imperialism is nowhere near the scale of European imperialism.

Who said I hated the west? I'm not trying to divide ourselves- but I absolutely abhor those who kiss the ass of Europe and America.

Doesn't mean that it was any better or was less deplorable. Murder is murder, a murder of a thousand in comparison to a murder of a million is still murder.

And now you are twisting my words buddy. Okay. Okay.

[Minzerland II]

It is disingenuous to say such a thing when most of the worlds history is either not recorded, or is lost to the ages. The West has only been able commit genocide on a larger scale.

Emphasis mine.

So? If an African Imperial Power were given the same chance, they would. Besides, that wasn't your point.

Because the west genocide and enslaved the most? Isn't it obvious?

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Blah blah blah spare me the drivel that divides people even further.

Also, what a HILARIOUSLY pathetic way of viewing history. Need I remind you of China's own imperial ambitions? How about Japan's views of civilization and barbarianism? Oh oh oh, how about how ethnic relations are a result of basic human psychology and the the only way to open one's minds into loving thy neighbor is by understanding them beyond the prejudices one holds and by understanding what can be done to improve relationships between races.

Your petty argument serves as nothing but a catalyst for conflict and resentment. 'Tolerance' is an empty word without understanding.

China's and Japan's imperialism is nowhere near the scale of European imperialism.

Who said I hated the west? I'm not trying to divide ourselves- but I absolutely abhor those who kiss the ass of Europe and America.

It is disingenuous to say such a thing when most of the worlds history is either not recorded, or is lost to the ages. The West has only been able commit genocide on a larger scale.

Emphasis mine.

I recognise the deplorable acts that the Western Civilisation has committed, I only hate it when people frame the west as the most deplorable civilisation on earth, when in fact it's far from it.

[Sassinia]

China's and Japan's imperialism is nowhere near the scale of European imperialism.

Who said I hated the west? I'm not trying to divide ourselves- but I absolutely abhor those who kiss the ass of Europe and America.


Emphasis mine.

I recognise the deplorable acts that the Western Civilisation has committed, I only hate it when people frame the west as the most deplorable civilisation on earth, when in fact it's far from it.

I never said that.

[Minzerland II]

I don't see why, the Government is a tool, not an individual who commits an act by their own volition.

The government is an institution. It is an institution that promoted, as a matter of policy, genocide. That is deserving of an apology, and far more.

The Government is an institution controlled by the elected administrative party, it is up to the parties members, whom were in control of the time, to apologise.

[Nusaresa]

I love it when I'm right <3

Well it's more of the institution of government that is to apologize, but as we discussed earlier and even some divergent cases (Japan and war crimes for instance) apologies do not cut it.

I don't see why, the Government is a tool, not an individual who commits an act by their own volition.

Well it's kinda both in this case. As the institution of government is 'sort-of' the continuity of all actions done by the nation in the most broadest sense. It's a tool to establish policy, but as an institution it exists as an entity to get those policies into effect?

something like that

Well it's more of the institution of government that is to apologize, but as we discussed earlier and even some divergent cases (Japan and war crimes for instance) apologies do not cut it.

That's pretty much how I view it. The state as an entity is recognizing it committed a crime and apologizing.

Apologies are not sufficient and sometimes not necessary.

What is needed is mutual dialogue in order for all parties to move on. It's more sincere and carries a deeper level of meaning and intimacy. It can be simply a small sample of people, but what matters is this idea of reconciliation and open forum.

"The things that were done in the past were indeed abhorrent, and we accept that for what it is. We understand the grievances and your concern over such events that have occurred, etc etc"

It makes it so that it is not a guilt trip AND not a blatant 'im sorreh' which tends to do nothing at all.

[Camicon]

The government is an institution. It is an institution that promoted, as a matter of policy, genocide. That is deserving of an apology, and far more.

The Government is an institution controlled by the elected administrative party, it is up to the parties members, whom were in control of the time, to apologise.

It is an institution that exists beyond the governing party. That's why it's the "Australian government", not the "Prime Minister So-And-So government". That's why there was such outrage when the Tories renamed the "Canadian government" the "Harper government" in official documents.

[Sassinia]

Emphasis mine.

So? If an African Imperial Power were given the same chance, they would. Besides, that wasn't your point.

Because the west genocide and enslaved the most? Isn't it obvious?

On a larger scale

the most

...

[FelrikTheDeleted]

I recognise the deplorable acts that the Western Civilisation has committed, I only hate it when people frame the west as the most deplorable civilisation on earth, when in fact it's far from it.

I never said that.

Typical western enslavement/genocide of other peoples.

You framed it as a common characteristic of western civilisation by use of the word typical, even though every civilisation throughout recorded history has committed similar acts.

[Sassinia]

I never said that.

Typical western enslavement/genocide of other peoples.

You framed it as a common characteristic of western civilisation by use of the word typical, even though every civilisation throughout recorded history has committed similar acts.

Yes, I said it because the west has done the most genocidal/enslaving acts in history. I never said they were the most deplorable. That's just stuffing words in my mouth.

[Minzerland II]

I don't see why, the Government is a tool, not an individual who commits an act by their own volition.

Well it's kinda both in this case. As the institution of government is 'sort-of' the continuity of all actions done by the nation in the most broadest sense. It's a tool to establish policy, but as an institution it exists as an entity to get those policies into effect?

something like that

It only enacts the policies forwarded from its constituencies, it isn't the Government whom must apologise, but those who forwarded the policy and the elected administrative party.

[Nusaresa]

Well it's kinda both in this case. As the institution of government is 'sort-of' the continuity of all actions done by the nation in the most broadest sense. It's a tool to establish policy, but as an institution it exists as an entity to get those policies into effect?

something like that

It only enacts the policies forwarded from its constituencies, it isn't the Government whom must apologise, but those who forwarded the policy and the elected administrative party.

mutual dialogue and reconciliation could happen independent of gov't control right?

theoretically it could.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

So? If an African Imperial Power were given the same chance, they would. Besides, that wasn't your point.

On a larger scale

the most

...

Your point?
Western Civilisation has invented and pioneered on the largest scale and the most.
No one is denying the bad that Western Civilisation has committed, you are the one who through the use of the word Typical framed it as a Characteristic unique to western civilisation.

[Zostra]

That's pretty much how I view it. The state as an entity is recognizing it committed a crime and apologizing.

Apologies are not sufficient and sometimes not necessary.

What is needed is mutual dialogue in order for all parties to move on. It's more sincere and carries a deeper level of meaning and intimacy. It can be simply a small sample of people, but what matters is this idea of reconciliation and open forum.

"The things that were done in the past were indeed abhorrent, and we accept that for what it is. We understand the grievances and your concern over such events that have occurred, etc etc"

It makes it so that it is not a guilt trip AND not a blatant 'im sorreh' which tends to do nothing at all.

Oh, I definitely agree that just shrugging and saying "sorry guys" is not anywhere close to what needs to happen. I was just talking about the principle of it. If the Trudeau government for example apologized and went about taking corrective action, he wouldn't be saying "I, Justin Trudeau, apologize etc." nor should he be. But his government represents, theoretically, the Canadian state and so would be acting on behalf of it, (if that makes sense).

[Sassinia]

On a larger scale

the most

...

Your point?
Western Civilisation has invented and pioneered on the largest scale and the most.
No one is denying the bad that Western Civilisation has committed, you are the one who through the use of the word Typical framed it as a Characteristic unique to western civilisation.

[Ebliania]

You framed it as a common characteristic of western civilisation by use of the word typical, even though every civilisation throughout recorded history has committed similar acts.

Yes, I said it because the west has done the most genocidal/enslaving acts in history. I never said they were the most deplorable. That's just stuffing words in my mouth.

You said it was typical, and called white people barbarians. It's obvious.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

You framed it as a common characteristic of western civilisation by use of the word typical, even though every civilisation throughout recorded history has committed similar acts.

Yes, I said it because the west has done the most genocidal/enslaving acts in history. I never said they were the most deplorable. That's just stuffing words in my mouth.

Saying that of which is disingenuous considering we only have recorded history to go off.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Your point?
Western Civilisation has invented and pioneered on the largest scale and the most.
No one is denying the bad that Western Civilisation has committed, you are the one who through the use of the word Typical framed it as a Characteristic unique to western civilisation.

Please elborate.

[Minzerland II]

So? If an African Imperial Power were given the same chance, they would. Besides, that wasn't your point.

On a larger scale

the most

...

'Large scale' means killing more people.